Apple Defeats US Class Action Lawsuit Over Bag Searches

Megalith

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Sounds like Apple employees will have to find another way to get free iPads.

At least two Apple retail store workers complained directly to Chief Executive Tim Cook that the technology company's policy of checking retail employees' bags as a security precaution was embarrassing and demeaning, according to court filings made public earlier in the case.
 

foxhound2001

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Looks like the female employees will only be able to steal the apple pencil from now on.:eek:
 

Geef

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Best Buy does the same thing. Once your shift is over and you leave you have to open your bags. The official BB rule is they can look but can't go digging around so if you really wanted to steal stuff I guess you could just hide it deeper in the bag so they can't see or something.

If your unhappy with Apple they aren't forcing you to work there... you could always get a job at Walmart where they don't give a flying Funk if you walk out the front door with stuff.
 

dandirk

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The decision, from U.S. District Judge William Alsup in San Francisco, came in a case where employees sued to be reimbursed for the time taken by Apple to search their bags to ensure they did not steal any merchandise.

At least two Apple retail store workers complained directly to Chief Executive Tim Cook that the technology company's policy of checking retail employees' bags as a security precaution was embarrassing and demeaning, according to court filings made public earlier in the case.

Read more at Reutershttp://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/08/us-apple-bags-ruling-idUSKCN0SX03L20151108#igZIZqEWIYgUGL8J.99

Sometimes I hate the internet, so much information yet these articles are generally short of info or confusing.


The first paragraph I can see, if the employer requires searches but neglects to have resources to perform them within a reasonable timeframe (say within 5 min) the employee should be compensated.

The second paragraph.. well boo hoo you are working in a retail store that sells small and expensive items. What did you expect? Its not like they only searched those two employees but all, making it a standard practice that I would expect at any place with access to such merchandise. This isn't the dollar store.
 

pothb

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As a person who advocates for privacy, it's hard to say Apple is doing good, but I can get why, if they were losing expensive shit, it's a big problem. At the same time, it does suck for the more upright individuals.

However, Apple can just take away their right to bring in anything that can be used to conceal items, and have a strict clothing code that requires clothing that is basically impossible to steal things in.
 

kbrickley

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I have had employers search bags going in (for cameras in secure areas and bombs in dangerous countries) ... I have had employers search bags, x-ray bags, run employees through metal detectors (including a light frisking) going out ... the only potential action the employees ever had was the speed of the search ... while you are on the employer's site you must abide by their rules unless they violate one of the protected classifications and are discriminatory in nature
 

Koolthulu

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An employer can search me all they want while I'm on the clock. But if they prevent me from leaving without paying me, then yeah, I probably would start stealing just as an F U.
 

wizzi01

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An employer can search me all they want while I'm on the clock. But if they prevent me from leaving without paying me, then yeah, I probably would start stealing just as an F U.

Youvwouldn't get the chance. You'd be fired the first time you refuse.
 

copy_run_start

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An employer can search me all they want while I'm on the clock. But if they prevent me from leaving without paying me, then yeah, I probably would start stealing just as an F U.

You could just, you know, not work there instead.
 

nilepez

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It sucks but searching is OK. I do think they should do it on company time. Preventing theft Shoukd be a company expense not an employee expense(time)
 

SvenBent

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its fine to seach through my stuff . just remember its time ressoruce that I'm selling to you just as my work so i need to get paid for said time.
I think that would be fair.

I've been searched before working in computer retails at random. no big deal.
 

pothb

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I think we can all agree that time has shown the rectum to be a much more adaptable orifice for hiding contraband.

But not enough pleasure to make stealing worth it.

I don't knwo if I agree with it being on the company's dime either.... though I can't say it should be on the employee's dime either. Because it's shitty people doing shitty things and affecting others. I mean, if I owned a company, I can't think of wanting to pay people to not work because some employees have been stealing shit. But if I were an employee, why should I have to waste my time because some asshole decided to steal something, and I didn't?
 
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I used to work as security at Bestbuy and it only takes a few seconds to search bags/purses. I could search all of the employees in 1 minute or less. It was not invasive. However I did work one summer at FedEx (not in security) and everyone got a full patdown when leaving, but at least it only took a few seconds. I have been on both sides of this and I see no issue with getting searched. If you don't like it, don't work there.
 

/usr/sbin

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I don't knwo if I agree with it being on the company's dime either.... though I can't say it should be on the employee's dime either. Because it's shitty people doing shitty things and affecting others. I mean, if I owned a company, I can't think of wanting to pay people to not work because some employees have been stealing shit. But if I were an employee, why should I have to waste my time because some asshole decided to steal something, and I didn't?

It should be on the companies dime for a couple reasons:
  1. First, they are hourly employees. They get paid the same if no customers walk in the door or they service 200 customers a day. They are literally paid for their time. If a business mandated activity takes time, the business should be paying for it. Period. What if the mandated search gets delayed by 3 hours because it's busy at the shop and customers come first? Should an employee that is paid for their time have to give 3 hours of it for nothing? 2 hours? 45 minutes? The question is how much *FREE* time does an employee that is paid for their time *OWE* to a company? The only answer is zero. I'm not owed 1/33rd of a gallon of gas for free when I go to the pump, "because it's a small amount". I have to pay fractional to the price for a full gallon.
  2. Second, it's up to the property owner to assume the costs for protecting their assets/property. Believe me, I think thieves are fucking dirt bags, but ultimately it's up to you to pay for securing your belongings. I have a home security system to deter theft, should others have to pay for my security measures? How about if I want bump key proof locks (informative video if you don't know what this is), who should pay for them? You or me? Ultimately if a business wants procedures or products to lower theft it's up to them to pay for it.
 

nightfly

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Guy I worked with objected to security searching his gym bag. They insisted. He dumped his dirty jockstrap and socks onto their desk, and walked out. They never bothered him again. However;
They do not have the right to search your person unless they suspect you of a crime, and then they have to have you arrested by a law enforcement officer. Having a sign saying that they reserve the right to search you does not remove your constitutional rights. You can refuse to be searched, if they hold you against your will, then they must get the police involved. Then they have to arrest you. If you have nothing on you, then you have a case for false arrest. I don't think the law has changed regarding this. They can just walk out, but of course, management will find another reason to fire them. They (apple) will lose this on appeal. As above, it only takes a few seconds to search a bag, so being reimbursed shouldn't enter into the equation, they can always just leave. Of course, they won't be allowed back in. Pick your job. If they don't like Apple's policies, don't work there. No problem. However; if it includes a pat down, then that could be construed as a problem.
 

Rev Lemmon

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When I worked for CVS pharmacy no bags or coats where allowed in the pharmacy and we had bag checks when leaving the store. You don't want your bags checked then don't bring them into work.
 
D

Deleted whining member 223597

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OP's mom can steal a MacBook.

This. It was pretty obvious they were going to win this case. The people who don't want to waste the 1 minute getting searched can always find another job, nobody is forcing them to work there.
 

potency

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I see this as a big waste of taxpayer money.

No one is forced to work for Apple. People think they have the right to bring whatever they want onto company property. No one requires a bag. It is strictly a lifestyle choice. Yeah, I get that there are exceptions for the disabled and whatever. But for the rest of us, there is no reason why you can't leave everything at home that you don't need to get your job done.
 

westrock2000

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I've seen Fry's Electronics employees bags searched when they leave. There are people working in very important "corporate" jobs that get their stuff searched...both on the way in AND on the way out. It's life.

Takes me 5-8 minutes to walk to my car in the parking lot. Think I'm getting reimbursed for that?
 

Ryokurin

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If your unhappy with Apple they aren't forcing you to work there... you could always get a job at Walmart where they don't give a flying Funk if you walk out the front door with stuff.

No, they tell you you can't bring bags in period. They really discourage you from bringing phones too. Sam's is largely the same too.
 

M76

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This whole thing is just plain wrong. There should be a trust between the employer and the employee. Without that you can't have a good working evnironment.
 

hardcase

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Guy I worked with objected to security searching his gym bag. They insisted. He dumped his dirty jockstrap and socks onto their desk, and walked out. They never bothered him again. However;
They do not have the right to search your person unless they suspect you of a crime, and then they have to have you arrested by a law enforcement officer. Having a sign saying that they reserve the right to search you does not remove your constitutional rights. You can refuse to be searched, if they hold you against your will, then they must get the police involved. Then they have to arrest you. If you have nothing on you, then you have a case for false arrest. I don't think the law has changed regarding this. They can just walk out, but of course, management will find another reason to fire them. They (apple) will lose this on appeal. As above, it only takes a few seconds to search a bag, so being reimbursed shouldn't enter into the equation, they can always just leave. Of course, they won't be allowed back in. Pick your job. If they don't like Apple's policies, don't work there. No problem. However; if it includes a pat down, then that could be construed as a problem.

Oh dear, Internet lawyerin' strikes again.
 

lcpiper

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This whole thing is just plain wrong. There should be a trust between the employer and the employee. Without that you can't have a good working evnironment.

Well we know who poisoned that well now don't we?
 

M76

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Well we know who poisoned that well now don't we?

Why do people steal? Because they feel they're not compensated well enough for their work. The root cause of the problem is not people, treating all of them like criminals won't solve the problem, it just puts another one in its place.
 

M76

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A new problem where the ones left to bear the cross are the common folk, instead of the billion dollar company.
 

kbrickley

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Why do people steal? Because they feel they're not compensated well enough for their work. The root cause of the problem is not people, treating all of them like criminals won't solve the problem, it just puts another one in its place.

Some people also have unrealistic expectations of their value ... and there is a big difference between taking a pen or envelope from the office and taking iPhones or iPads ... if you feel you are underpaid or undervalued you either find a new job or find ways to improve your position/perception (you don't take money from the till or steal inventory to compensate)
 

Dekoth-E-

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Why do people steal? Because they feel they're not compensated well enough for their work. The root cause of the problem is not people, treating all of them like criminals won't solve the problem, it just puts another one in its place.

Wrong, they steal for a ton of reasons. There are people who steal just for the thrill of it. Either way apple is perfectly in their right to search bags. I've worked for companies that had those policies, apples are no different. The only thing that needs be fought is it should be done on company time.

Outside that, it's real simple to avoid. Leave your shit in your car. They don't require a tool bag, or anything to do their job. Everything they need is provided by Apple. If you want to haul in a bunch of unnecessary shit, then you brought it on yourself.
 

M76

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Outside that, it's real simple to avoid. Leave your shit in your car. They don't require a tool bag, or anything to do their job. Everything they need is provided by Apple. If you want to haul in a bunch of unnecessary shit, then you brought it on yourself.

Brilliant idea. Leave your shit in your car, so it can attract thieves who will not only steal your shit, but also break your car locks, or windows, or both.

Bottom line I wouldn't work for a company that A doesn't allow my personel belongings in the premises, or B wants to curtail me by not allowing me to come and go as I wish, without being subject to criminal harrassment. If they don't trust me they shouldn't have hired me. And if I gave them reason to not trust me with company property fire me.
 

Dekoth-E-

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Brilliant idea. Leave your shit in your car, so it can attract thieves who will not only steal your shit, but also break your car locks, or windows, or both.

Bottom line I wouldn't work for a company that A doesn't allow my personel belongings in the premises, or B wants to curtail me by not allowing me to come and go as I wish, without being subject to criminal harrassment. If they don't trust me they shouldn't have hired me. And if I gave them reason to not trust me with company property fire me.

Paranoid much? So tell me what is this huge list of possessions that the average retail employee needs to carry everywhere with them that is a giant steal me sign left in your car? Or are you just being argumentative for the sake of it? I mean I work retail many years ago and three only things I can think of are keys, wallet and you're personal phone. Which don't exactly require a bag.
 

kbrickley

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Brilliant idea. Leave your shit in your car, so it can attract thieves who will not only steal your shit, but also break your car locks, or windows, or both.

Bottom line I wouldn't work for a company that A doesn't allow my personel belongings in the premises, or B wants to curtail me by not allowing me to come and go as I wish, without being subject to criminal harrassment. If they don't trust me they shouldn't have hired me. And if I gave them reason to not trust me with company property fire me.

These are retail employees ... they don't have a desk ... they don't have an office ... they are on their feet or working with customers for their entire day ... how much personal stuff do they need to bring with them :confused:
 
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