Apple blocks WordPress iOS app updates because they weren't getting a cut of free purchases.

[1337Goat]

Apple is in fact one of the more ethical corporations you could possibly work with.

Do they pay you to defend them, or are you just *really* fanatical?

And when it comes to evil corporations?

No, it's just Apple. You ever go to their headquarters in California and see the massive complex?
I did. Evil. And they even serve evil coffee. I had one. A mocha. An EVIL mocha.

It was actually really delicious.

 

[UnknownSouljer]

Do they pay you to defend them, or are you just *really* fanatical?

And when it comes to evil corporations?

No, it's just Apple. You ever go to their headquarters in California and see the massive complex?
I did. Evil. And they even serve evil coffee. I had one. A mocha. An EVIL mocha.

You're either the most brilliant troll or the greatest satirist of Apple haters. Either way this post is hilarious. So good job with that.

 

[auntjemima]

You're either the most brilliant troll or the greatest satirist of Apple haters. Either way this post is hilarious. So good job with that.

Why do you keep skipping that Apple apologized and admitted they were wrong?

A large part of this thread has been about what apple did. It somehow spiralled into the 30% argument, but it's about the right or wrong of what they did. When they say it was wrong, what are you still defending?

 

[Ready4Dis]

All I ask is that you be logically consistent. Since you have a problem with Apple for charging devs 30% you should feel the same about every other platform and should also be seeking to screw those platforms out of money.
Those platforms would be: Google Play (Android, Apple's direct competitor), Steam (better stop buying games there), XBox, Playstation, Nintendo (whoops I guess that's all consoles digital sales), the Microsoft Store, the Amazon App Store, and the Samsung Galaxy Store.
So, great of you to wax poetic. I expect that you'll start threads and go on diatribes just as much about all of those other stores right? If you won't, what does that say about you and your self-righteous position?

Speaking of consistent.... Apple charges 30% for in app purchases.. Steam charges 15%. So your argument is not valid in any way shape or form. Also, Android does NOT force you to use google play and allows you to create your own store if you'd like, again, inconsistent with your statement. Please do look into those other stores you are quoting and see the differences, then come back and argue you're point (if you still have one).

 

[Deleted whining member 223597]

I’m always confused why non-iOS users are always the most upset about iOS specific news/problems. Don’t use it, continue to enjoy your platform of choice.

 

[UnknownSouljer]

Speaking of consistent.... Apple charges 30% for in app purchases.. Steam charges 15%. So your argument is not valid in any way shape or form.

Steam charges 30% to the developer when you buy a game. Which is obviously a much more significant cost of selling games versus IAP.

So not valid in “any shape or form”? Really? Steams 30% cut has been repeatedly talked about even in this news section. This has been Epics claim to fame. “We take less money from devs than Steam so use us” -Epic more or less. So good job missing the point. And to that point you're missing, even if all we wanted to talk about was IAP, then we'd have to address the Google Play store. Which again is also 30%: in line with Apple's 30%, and again basically the entire rest of the industry.

Also you’ve addressed two stores. Great. And all the other ones? The entire media industry?

Also, Android does NOT force you to use google play and allows you to create your own store if you'd like, again, inconsistent with your statement. Please do look into those other stores you are quoting and see the differences, then come back and argue you're point (if you still have one).

Cool. Then you can explain to me why Epic even cares that Google Play banned Fortnite from their store for the exact same reasons Apple did and why that is remotely significant at all.

And clearly I have looked into these other stores more than you have. The first party stores are definitely the most consistent and most important.

And again I’ve talked about the market as a whole. PoS (point of sale) everywhere. And Apple is inline with all of them. That has been the point and you’ve said little against that point. Hell you’ve addressed not even 5% of what I even said. Because in order to do that you’d have to admit that Apples pricing and structure is basically the same as basically all games and media corporations. And if you’re going to be mad at them for it, in order to be logically consistent you’d have to be just as upset at all the others. And you’re not. You’re hypocrites.

 

[cybereality]

The difference is that iOS forces users and developers to use the AppStore. It's either the Apple way or the highway.

Even on Android, I could sell an apk on my website if I wanted. Or Amazon Appstore.

On PC, I could also sell on my website, or Steam, or Epic, or GOG, put it on Itch, Humble, etc. Lots of choices.

 

[blackmomba]

The difference is that iOS forces users and developers to use the AppStore. It's either the Apple way or the highway.

Even on Android, I could sell an apk on my website if I wanted. Or Amazon Appstore.

On PC, I could also sell on my website, or Steam, or Epic, or GOG, put it on Itch, Humble, etc. Lots of choices.

It's funny cause apple promotes themselves as the brand for creators, they should put in their commercials that it costs 30% to be creative on their app store

 

[cybereality]

Just to clarify, I don't have an issue with the 30%, as that is relatively standard for digital storefronts.

My issue is that they lock down the operating system and stymie innovation by being the gatekeeper of the AppStore and not allowing a viable alternative.

 

[Deleted whining member 223597]

Just to clarify, I don't have an issue with the 30%, as that is relatively standard for digital storefronts.

My issue is that they lock down the operating system and stymie innovation by being the gatekeeper of the AppStore and not allowing a viable alternative.

So use another operating system. I’m not sure why everyone is so upset about this when there’s a perfectly acceptable alternative (Android) that has the functions/features you want.

 

[blackmomba]

You can't allow a viable alternative, it's the way they keep everything the way it is. It goes against everything the Apple ecosystem is. That's the way their users like it. It's too risky to venture out onto the internet to download the 5 apps that you need

The real issue is apple abusing this position by taking a big chunk of the profits from the work the developer puts in. It isn't necessarily the standard and more importantly it shouldn't be the standard. That's why relatively small players like Epic need to test the waters and since these mobile app stores are pretty much the standard for how users get their apps, it should be challeneged because it should suit everyone, regardless of who owns it. You want to be the biggest app store on the planet? Well the people that contribute should have a chance to vote on how things work. It's really not complicated

 

[cybereality]

So use another operating system.

I do use Android. But I'm also a developer (trying Unreal 4 right now) and it concerns me personally if I can't export to iOS or macOS because of Apple's illegal retaliation.

 

[cdabc123]

You can't allow a viable alternative, it's the way they keep everything the way it is. It goes against everything the Apple ecosystem is. That's the way their users like it. It's too risky to venture out onto the internet to download the 5 apps that you need

The real issue is apple abusing this position by taking a big chunk of the profits from the work the developer puts in. It isn't necessarily the standard and more importantly it shouldn't be the standard. That's why relatively small players like Epic need to test the waters and since these mobile app stores are pretty much the standard for how users get their apps, it should be challeneged because it should suit everyone, regardless of who owns it. You want to be the biggest app store on the planet? Well the people that contribute should have a chance to vote on how things work. It's really not complicated

its a company not a democracy. epic just wants more money this isnt motivated by good feelings. and surprise apple wants money (and are a historically greedy company).

now who has the right to decide the finantial agreement for the app store? epic, wordpress or apple

 

[Ready4Dis]

Steam charges 30% to the developer when you buy a game. Which is obviously a much more significant cost of selling games versus IAP.

So not valid in “any shape or form”? Really? Steams 30% cut has been repeatedly talked about even in this news section. This has been Epics claim to fame. “We take less money from devs than Steam so use us” -Epic more or less. So good job missing the point. And to that point you're missing, even if all we wanted to talk about was IAP, then we'd have to address the Google Play store. Which again is also 30%: in line with Apple's 30%, and again basically the entire rest of the industry.

Also you’ve addressed two stores. Great. And all the other ones? The entire media industry?


Cool. Then you can explain to me why Epic even cares that Google Play banned Fortnite from their store for the exact same reasons Apple did and why that is remotely significant at all.

And clearly I have looked into these other stores more than you have. The first party stores are definitely the most consistent and most important.

And again I’ve talked about the market as a whole. PoS (point of sale) everywhere. And Apple is inline with all of them. That has been the point and you’ve said little against that point. Hell you’ve addressed not even 5% of what I even said. Because in order to do that you’d have to admit that Apples pricing and structure is basically the same as basically all games and media corporations. And if you’re going to be mad at them for it, in order to be logically consistent you’d have to be just as upset at all the others. And you’re not. You’re hypocrites.

This is about WordPress on Apple. It's all about in all purchases, it's a free app.. same for fornite, its free with IAPs, if you want to discuss app purchase (PoS) percentages please feel free to start a new thread where I'll agree that 30% is "normal" even if I still think it's higher than it should be. Also, I don't care what epic says about Google, they are free to bring their own all store to Android or avoid using Google play. On iOS they have no such choice, to me this is the difference on why they "could" have a case against Apple but not so much with Google. So, yes Google charges 30% IAP but it's not forced like on iOS.

 

[cdabc123]

I do use Android. But I'm also a developer (trying Unreal 4 right now) and it concerns me personally if I can't export to iOS or macOS because of Apple's illegal retaliation.

they also are not a easy platform to develop for unless you want to bend over backwards and give them money.

should anyone be able to develop for a console like the switch without interacting with nintendo?

 

[blackmomba]

its a company not a democracy. epic just wants more money this isnt motivated by good feelings. and surprise apple wants money (and are a historically greedy company).

now who has the right to decide the finantial agreement for the app store? epic, wordpress or apple

Surprise everyone wants money... No one said anyone was being righteous here.

What's fair is fair. Apple should decide but with input from their contributers, which is what I said ^^

 

[cdabc123]

Surprise everyone wants money... No one said anyone was being righteous here.

What's fair is fair. Apple should decide but with input from their contributers, which is what I said ^^

apple has also historicly not cared atall about the consumers devs or anyone else. They quite literally cant hear anything above all the money they are pulling it.

 

[raz-0]

Apps are $3.99 on iOS and free on Android. I've seen this a few times.
The customer is being artificially overcharged to use iOS.

This isn't an apple tax. This is a developer with two platforms, one where a significantly higher percentage of users are willing to pay for an app vs one where very few do. The only times I have seen this are where the iOS app has a paid ad free version, and the android app is ad supported.

I don't understand the rationality for why so many people believe app developers are entitled to the 10's of millions of users on Apple's platform and not have to pay anything for it. Apple created the entire ecosphere that allows for this app (program) to exist, in exchange for that, they want 30% (and there are ways around this that are within the rules).

Comparing Apple taking 30% to Visa taking 3% is not a valid comparision. Visa's only role in commerce is the exact moment that a transaction takes place. Where as Apple is providing the customer, the retail space, the parking lot, the car, and the road. The app developer is just providing the product on the shelf. And in the real world, many different people would also get a cut from the sale of a product.

If Wordpress or Epic Fortnite think they deserve more of a profit, then it is their job to convince consumers to leave the Apple platform and any convenience that they get from that platform and go a different platform where developers can make more profit.

If your marketplace IS the market, we have rules about that. We also have rules about using your market dominance to force others into doing business with you or in a manner you insist upon.

Apple thinks they can mandate how someone runs their business that exists outside of the app store. This is going to come back to bite them in the ass.

 

[DukenukemX]

should anyone be able to develop for a console like the switch without interacting with nintendo?

Why not? You own the Switch, not Nintendo. Nintendo was just the creator of the hardware. That's like me buying a printer and being told I can only use the manufacturers brand of ink. It's only to their benefit not my own. As a Switch owner I have modified my console to install homebrew software.

Also, I don't care what epic says about Google, they are free to bring their own all store to Android or avoid using Google play. On iOS they have no such choice, to me this is the difference on why they "could" have a case against Apple but not so much with Google. So, yes Google charges 30% IAP but it's not forced like on iOS.

There are ways to avoid using the Google Play Store but the method of installing an apk is not something the average Android user is aware of, let alone knows how to install it. Apk's are meant to be cumbersome to work with compared to using the Play Store. There's even a way to install an app on iOS devices but it's even worse as you need AltServer/AltStore to install an ipa file. The average iOS user is totally unaware of being able to do this.

So basically if you want your app to get onto devices then you need the Play and App Store. Alternatively companies can make their own app store but that would require you to be able to install it... off an app store. It's like using Internet Explorer to download FireFox or Chrome. At some point the European Union will get involved and will probably force Apple and Google to offer alternatives to their stores.

 

[1337Goat]

Why not? You own the Switch, not Nintendo. Nintendo was just the creator of the hardware. That's like me buying a printer and being told I can only use the manufacturers brand of ink. It's only to their benefit not my own. As a Switch owner I have modified my console to install homebrew software.


There are ways to avoid using the Google Play Store but the method of installing an apk is not something the average Android user is aware of, let alone knows how to install it. Apk's are meant to be cumbersome to work with compared to using the Play Store. There's even a way to install an app on iOS devices but it's even worse as you need AltServer/AltStore to install an ipa file. The average iOS user is totally unaware of being able to do this.

So basically if you want your app to get onto devices then you need the Play and App Store. Alternatively companies can make their own app store but that would require you to be able to install it... off an app store. It's like using Internet Explorer to download FireFox or Chrome. At some point the European Union will get involved and will probably force Apple and Google to offer alternatives to their stores.

APKs are not cumbersome.

It's a very simple procedure to install it, and if it doesn't come intuitively, you can just find a guide on the internet.
Furthermore, there is also F-Droid, a free and open source app repository for Android.

 

[Nside]

The Apple business model has slowly shifted to Apple wanting a cut of your business just to have an App in their store, even if your app doesn't directly make you any money. If you have an app, and your business makes money, apple wants their cut...

The only exceptions are Apps that are expected to be on every device, like Youtube and Netflix, Apple will waive/reduce the fee if losing your app would cost them a significant number of users.

On a COMPLETELY unrelated note... Congratulations to Apple for being the first company to be worth 2-Trillion!

 

[DukenukemX]

APKs are not cumbersome.

It's a very simple procedure to install it, and if it doesn't come intuitively, you can just find a guide on the internet.

For you and me it isn't, but for most people they have no idea where to being. You need to browse your devices file system, which even for me Android can be confusing sometimes. Most devices prevent you from installing unapproved apps so you need to go to settings and turn that off. Finally, you can install the app.

Furthermore, there is also F-Droid, a free and open source app repository for Android.

Which again, requires you to install an apk. The solution here is to do what Linux does with it's repository system and that's let companies host their own files but can be searched and found through Google's or Apple's app store. These companies can pay a fee to be certified so users can use this metric to determine if they're about to download something potentially dangerous. If they don't want to go through all that trouble then they can deal with Google's or Apple's 30% cut. This isn't a technically difficult problem to solve, just that solving it isn't profitable for Apple or Google.