Apple Addresses Alleged Throttling of iPhones with Degraded Batteries

Megalith

Megalith

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Apple has acknowledged what many iPhone owners long suspected: it has slowed older phones. The tech giant issued a rare statement of explanation on Thursday, saying that it has used software updates to limit the performance of older iPhones that may have battery issues that would cause them to turn off suddenly.

Basically, iPhones were hitting peaks of processor power that the battery was unable to power and the phones were shutting off. Apple then added power management to all iPhones at the time that would “smooth out” those peaks by either capping the power available from the battery or by spreading power requests over several cycles.
 
You can't change the battery without voiding your warranty. We want you to buy a new phone. This isn't only an Apple problem, though.

Edit: Well, maybe the throttling part is.
 
The question is: If you're battery has not degraded do they still throttle?

If yes, this is absolutely unacceptable.
 
theplaidfad said:
You can't change the battery without voiding your warranty. We want you to buy a new phone. This isn't only an Apple problem, though.

Edit: Well, maybe the throttling part is.
Click to expand...

True,

but chances are, you probably won't need a new battery while the phone is still under warranty anyway.
 
NeoNemesis said:
The question is: If you're battery has not degraded do they still throttle?

If yes, this is absolutely unacceptable.
Click to expand...

No. If you read the article, this whole thing was discovered because a user found that his phone suddenly became faster again once the battery was replaced.
 
The question to me is, what happens if they don't throttle.

They said it had to do with load spikes, and old batteries unable to provide those spikes. Does this mean that the CPU's would get insufficient voltage, and crash?

Or does it just mean that old batteries would have shit for battery life.

If it is the latter, Once again, this seems like an issue Apple could have avoided if they gave people an OPTION. An advanced settings menu where you can turn it on or off.

Their insistence of treating their customers as idiots who don't know what they are doing and just need a shiny device that works is one of the biggest things that has turned me off about them for years.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
No. If you read the article, this whole thing was discovered because a user found that his phone suddenly became faster again once the battery was replaced.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I might try switching out the battery in my gen 3 iPad to see if that helps. I just bought a new one because I couldn't stand how damn slow it had gotten.


 
This seems wrong, and borderline illegal to me if they were not disclosing this when they did it. You buy a product with advertised x performance, then later that performance is changed without your consent and you are not given the ability to "fix" the problem because

a. Your not told what the problem is, the company just "fixes" it for you and nevermind the consequences, they tell you how your phone should run and

b. The problem part is not one the company wants you to fix, instead they want you to want to buy their latest and greatest new phone.

Not a lawyer, don't pretend to be one, but I see a lawsuit over this.
 
azuza001 said:
This seems wrong, and borderline illegal to me if they were not disclosing this when they did it. You buy a product with advertised x performance, then later that performance is changed without your consent and you are not given the ability to "fix" the problem because

a. Your not told what the problem is, the company just "fixes" it for you and nevermind the consequences, they tell you how your phone should run and

b. The problem part is not one the company wants you to fix, instead they want you to want to buy their latest and greatest new phone.

Not a lawyer, don't pretend to be one, but I see a lawsuit over this.
Click to expand...

You do not need to buy a new phone. Apple will replace the battery in their older phones for $79 or free within the two years of AppleCare.

No one is forcing anyone to buy a new phone.

I think Apple could have saved themselves from this backlash if they had an option to toggle the setting as the battery degraded. This is ultimately a non-issue though and most of the backlash seems to be coming from idiots that don’t understand that batteries go bad after a period of time. All Apple is doing is trying to keep the phone going for the user longer instead of the phone taking a shit earlier.
 
This would have been a fine feature IF Apple had:

1. Communicated it clearly from day one; and
2. Allowed the user to control it

As it stands...self-inflicted GSW.
 
Mchart said:
You do not need to buy a new phone. Apple will replace the battery in their older phones for $79 or free within the two years of AppleCare.

No one is forcing anyone to buy a new phone.
Click to expand...

This isn't forcing customers to buy a new phone, but it is very strongly encouraging them to do so by artificial means. That's the issue, the performance of the phone is being modified without the user's knowledge or consent.

Furthermore, $79 to replace a battery that probably costs apple $10? Give me a break. The industry has a real problem of 'we'll tell you what you want'.II'm seriously considering buying an outdated LG g5 for my next phone just so I can replace the battery easily.

The bottom line here is apple modified the phone's performance to preserve battery life as capacity drops over time. If the end user knew about this and was able to make the choice to do this or not, there would be no problem. I keep power saving mode on with my phone for this exact reason, but that's my conscious choice.

This is why I hate apple.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
The question to me is, what happens if they don't throttle.

They said it had to do with load spikes, and old batteries unable to provide those spikes. Does this mean that the CPU's would get insufficient voltage, and crash?
Click to expand...

I think this throttling helps with phones turning off before the battery gets to 0%. I've seen this on all sorts of devices when the battery gets older -- it'll start turning off at 20%, then 40 or 60, and it's more likely to turn off early if you're using it harder. It sure would have been nice if they were transparent about it before it was discovered. (And if they had a easily user replaceable battery; or at least an official way to buy replacements direct from Apple and service from elsewhere)
 
Megalith said:
Apple has acknowledged what many iPhone owners long suspected: it has slowed older phones. The tech giant issued a rare statement of explanation on Thursday, saying that it has used software updates to limit the performance of older iPhones that may have battery issues that would cause them to turn off suddenly.

Basically, iPhones were hitting peaks of processor power that the battery was unable to power and the phones were shutting off. Apple then added power management to all iPhones at the time that would “smooth out” those peaks by either capping the power available from the battery or by spreading power requests over several cycles.
Click to expand...

And that's what I pretty much claimed as to the possible reason why they did it.
 
azuza001 said:
This seems wrong, and borderline illegal to me if they were not disclosing this when they did it. You buy a product with advertised x performance, then later that performance is changed without your consent and you are not given the ability to "fix" the problem because

a. Your not told what the problem is, the company just "fixes" it for you and nevermind the consequences, they tell you how your phone should run and

b. The problem part is not one the company wants you to fix, instead they want you to want to buy their latest and greatest new phone.

Not a lawyer, don't pretend to be one, but I see a lawsuit over this.
Click to expand...

Does that mean you get to sue Toyota? You see on cold days, the transmission goes into "Gimp" mode with delayed shifts and limited power until it warms up. This is to prevent damage to the transmission.

I'll give Apple a "Pass" on this. But they should have communicated this to users with the software upgrade.
 
DigitalGriffin said:
Does that mean you get to sue Toyota? You see on cold days, the transmission goes into "Gimp" mode with delayed shifts and limited power until it warms up. This is to prevent damage to the transmission.
Click to expand...

Apples to oranges.
 
Cars and phones are fundamentally different devices with completely different functions and purposes. If you said Intel or AMD changed the bios to downclock a computer, then you'd be more on target.

Otherwise you could name any number of different irrelevant analogies. The town put up speed limit signs to artificially hinder performance when driving through. McDonald's only heats the coffee up to a certain temperature to avoid lawsuits...etc.
 
Given the choice between a slower device, or one that shuts off unexpectedly, I know which I would prefer.

I don't fault the technical decision that Apple has made. But I do fault their transparency about it. This would be a non-issue, and probably applauded by most, if they had just come out and said what they were doing when they implemented this.

Then would have probably also seen an uptick in "official" battery replacements at the Apple Store for people who just weren't quite ready to upgrade yet, or for people who were just doing it pre-emptively to prevent their devices from slowing down.

The real issue here is just that they were silent about it and people found out.
 
Because of this I did a quick google and other than heating the iphone to soften the glue that holds the battery, it isnt that difficult to change it out and it costs about $30 or so for the tools and battery.
 
I have a spare iphone 5 (silver metal white face) that 'mysteriously' powers off around 24-26% battery life. It has the updated software as far as it can go and still experiences the battery woes. The phone had initially gotten very little use as it was at the time a new work phone that got almost instantly upgraded to another and I got to keep. The battery degradation is a bigger problem than I ever hear publicly discussed by apple till now. These phones aren't designed for longevity, they are designed for form factor and modern tech (which IS temporary tech). They could make the batteries last a lot longer but would come at raw power delivery sacrifices and shorter charge duration's, which no one usually wants unless you're taking your cellphone to an inhospitable life necessitating region for a long duration of time.

qbert95 said:
Because of this I did a quick google and other than heating the iphone to soften the glue that holds the battery, it isnt that difficult to change it out and it costs about $30 or so for the tools and battery.
Click to expand...
For the average iphone user the response is usually to just get a new phone, I only know one or two people that have replaced iphone batteries themselves and one of them does all phone repairs in his spare time. I'm not saying that you can't do it, but that's like a tesla owner doing all their own engine, break, and diagnostics work :S
 
Mchart said:
You do not need to buy a new phone. Apple will replace the battery in their older phones for $79 or free within the two years of AppleCare.

No one is forcing anyone to buy a new phone.

I think Apple could have saved themselves from this backlash if they had an option to toggle the setting as the battery degraded. This is ultimately a non-issue though and most of the backlash seems to be coming from idiots that don’t understand that batteries go bad after a period of time. All Apple is doing is trying to keep the phone going for the user longer instead of the phone taking a shit earlier.
Click to expand...

If the battery is getting so low that they need to slow down the phone, then they should be displaying a warning that the battery is end of life and needs to be replaced. Dell laptops will let you know that the battery is no longer holding a full charge and that it needs to be replaced.

Instead they just slow down the phone so people will think they need a newer phone, not just a battery.
Just another Apple tax (Apples make much more money if you buy a new phone instead of just replacing the battery)
 
Apple will get sued and i think they will lose. As mentioned a simple toggle with an advisory... They just so fucking arrogant they would rather hide the fact that their batteries degrade.. like any other. Plus they are so obsessed with thinness their batteries are super small... A bigger battery or one with 2 cells would probably not show this issue for longer.
 
nutzo said:
If the battery is getting so low that they need to slow down the phone, then they should be displaying a warning that the battery is end of life and needs to be replaced. Dell laptops will let you know that the battery is no longer holding a full charge and that it needs to be replaced.

Instead they just slow down the phone so people will think they need a newer phone, not just a battery.
Just another Apple tax (Apples make much more money if you buy a new phone instead of just replacing the battery)
Click to expand...

You mean any sealed phone with a battery tax. This isn’t unique to Apple. At least you can replace the battery on iPhones at an Apple store. That Galaxy S7 will be worthless when the battery goes as it isn’t even worth replacing.
 
I have one question, do they warn the user that their battery is worn out and should be replaced or simply throttle the damned thing and pretend it's for the better ?
I mean, as a self-maintainer, I would simply replace the battery if told it was required... It might be "sealed" but we can still change the battery...

It should be criminal to take action on consumer goods without any mention of it.
 
MMitch said:
I have one question, do they warn the user that their battery is worn out and should be replaced or simply throttle the damned thing and pretend it's for the better ?
I mean, as a self-maintainer, I would simply replace the battery if told it was required... It might be "sealed" but we can still change the battery...

It should be criminal to take action on consumer goods without any mention of it.
Click to expand...

Not currently, but it can become obvious as the phone won’t last as long. Third party apps on the App Store can show battery health as well.

My guess is after this false outrage Apple will now put in some annoying pop up message letting people know their battery is on the way out. Thanks complainers.
 
Mchart said:
Not currently, but it can become obvious as the phone won’t last as long. Third party apps on the App Store can show battery health as well.

My guess is after this false outrage Apple will now put in some annoying pop up message letting people know their battery is on the way out. Thanks complainers.
Click to expand...

Well a one-time pop-up seems fair & logical... I mean if they determine the phone needs to be throttled to last as long or work properly, why not mention it to the user ?
 
Mchart said:
You mean any sealed phone with a battery tax. This isn’t unique to Apple. At least you can replace the battery on iPhones at an Apple store. That Galaxy S7 will be worthless when the battery goes as it isn’t even worth replacing.
Click to expand...

Android trying to be more like Apple is not a plus.

Notice how Samsung put the SD slot back in the newer models. Hopefully they will bring back the replaceable batteries next time.

Meanwhile I'll stick with my Note 4, now on it's second easily replaceable battery.
 
nutzo said:
Android trying to be more like Apple is not a plus.

Notice how Samsung put the SD slot back in the newer models. Hopefully they will bring back the replaceable batteries next time.

Meanwhile I'll stick with my Note 4, now on it's second easily replaceable battery.
Click to expand...
No, it isn’t which is why I went back to iPhones because all the new Androids have nothing that used to make them better.
 
nutzo said:
If the battery is getting so low that they need to slow down the phone, then they should be displaying a warning that the battery is end of life and needs to be replaced. Dell laptops will let you know that the battery is no longer holding a full charge and that it needs to be replaced.

Instead they just slow down the phone so people will think they need a newer phone, not just a battery.
Just another Apple tax (Apples make much more money if you buy a new phone instead of just replacing the battery)
Click to expand...

The interesting part is this, Apple has a built in Battery Diagnostic...you can run a full gamut test that will tell you more than you could care about. They run it at the store if you bring it in, will tell you instantly how much life is left. I think it's a bit shady it's not simply in the Settings - General area along with a toggle to throttle the phone. If they had done that, folks would simply buy a new battery and wait to upgrade....oh, that's why they didn't put it in there.
 
i once changed the battery of an iphone 5 from a girl friend of mine, got the battery from a web store and it was a trivial thing to do, pretty easy.
 
Explains a lot now. My dad was complaining his SE sucked after an update a while back (not even going to guess timeline). He said up to that point it was perfect, after update it was slow and would constantly freeze/not respond to touch and would have to restart it. I'm not an apple fanboy but will recommend it to people that want no frills simple to use devices and that's what he got with the SE. I skimmed through what settings/info I could find on his phone and thought his slowness was due to having almost filled the storage with pictures so I told him to copy them off to his computer/flash drive. Hmmm.. I wonder how much of it was /is their shenanigans. He never once had a complaint/concern over battery life.

This was his intro into smartphones from his flip phone that's been "exploded" from hitting the ground so many times and just kept working.


And I agree with most here. Put an option in settings somewhere to turn this on/off if desired. If I want all the HP until it crashes, that is on me. At least a notification saying your battery needs help (noted in article) would be nice BUT how many people would treat it like printers with the ink alerts that were telling you to replace (or not let you print at all) with ~XX% still available and still complain.

They won't win either way as people always want everything and not have to do anything but keeping stuff from the public isn't the way to go.
 
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theplaidfad said:
An SD slot instantly makes it a better choice than an iPhone, IMO.
Click to expand...

Even with my entire music collection I don’t use much more then 30gb. 64gb is enough for me so the sd slot is worthless for me.
 
Mchart said:
Even with my entire music collection I don’t use much more then 30gb. 64gb is enough for me so the sd slot is worthless for me.
Click to expand...


64 GB of built in memory would be good as I've been running a little low with my 32 GB Note 4.

However, I also have a 64GB micro SD card, for a total of 96GB.
The extra flash is for my music, pictures, videos, etc.
Not just the pictures I've taken with the phone, but vacation picture, etc.

Nice to be able to pull out the phone and show a few pictures when you are asked about the vacation you just got back from.
I've even been know to throw a few movies on the card so I have something to watch when I travel :p
 
I'm going to eat a large taco bell meal and go take a diarrhea dump on the genius desk. If you're going to shit all over my phone then I'm going to shit all over your desk.
 
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