Apple 32" 6k monitor

Discussion in 'Displays' started by bigbluefe, Jun 3, 2019.

  1. bigbluefe

    bigbluefe Gawd

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  2. GoldenTiger

    GoldenTiger [H]ard as it Gets

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  3. Sitti_S

    Sitti_S n00b

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    I'm not defending apple for their pricing, but this monitor was designed specifically for Mac. Serious gamers would choose Windows on PC anyway, not Mac OS.
     
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  4. NotJay

    NotJay 2[H]4U

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    don't forget extra $1k for the stand
     
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  5. bigbluefe

    bigbluefe Gawd

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    Remember when high end monitors used to be objectively the best at EVERYTHING?

    Yeah. There's no reason it can't be like that today other than dumb consumers accepting trash.

    You basically just said "this monitor isn't meant for displaying images quickly." Okay dude.
     
  6. spine

    spine 2[H]4U

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  7. ND40oz

    ND40oz [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Not at all, there have always been a subset of professional displays meant to do what this display was designed for.

    https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/201...e-apples-new-mac-pro-and-the-pro-display-xdr/

     
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  8. Keller1

    Keller1 n00b

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  9. Zepher

    Zepher [H]ipster Replacement

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    Did you hear the crowd when he announced the price, lol
     
  10. Sitti_S

    Sitti_S n00b

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    If I'm forced to buy either Apple or Eizo, I guess I have to choose Apple because Eizo CG3145 costs $30,000. But CG3145 is truly a piece of art. It's the only and the first LCD monitor in the world that can match the black level and contrast of OLED with better brightness.
     
  11. dreadcthulhu

    dreadcthulhu [H]Lite

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    To be fair, it is a really Grand Stand.
     
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  12. bigbluefe

    bigbluefe Gawd

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  13. aeliusg

    aeliusg Gawd

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    The FW900 was the culmination of over a century of developments in CRT technology. It’s a coincidence that it happens to be a good legacy monitor for gaming still today, not because market factors dictated that Sony make it a bomb-ass Smash display as well.

    Let’s be honest here, even with VRR, 120 hz plus and only marginal input lag (throw in a free stand), how many people are going to be purchasing this in any private capacity whether they use it for gaming or not?
     
  14. UnknownSouljer

    UnknownSouljer [H]ardness Supreme

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    You don't have reference for history at all. High end monitors have always had a massive discrepancy in price in comparison to consumer hardware. The "top hardware" you're referring to isn't the same hardware that pros in broadcast or film were using. You'd cry and balk at how "limited" those displays are too. If you weren't using SDI input with very high end hardware controllers, you weren't using top end displays. Nor using professional hardware. Sony had 15" monitors that were well over $20k.

    Stuff like this https://sonypvm.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_monitors
    NEVER sat on ANY consumers desk. And it was debilitatingly expensive AND it didn't have the high refresh rates and definitely was NOT "objectively the best at EVERYTHING". You clearly don't know the difference between stuff designed for consumers and stuff designed for professionals or your history is incredibly limited.

    In case it wasn’t abundantly clear, the fw900 WAS NOT a broadcast level monitor in the same line with true professional equipment. It was positioned much closer to prosumer.

    ===

    That continues to this day with the Sony OLED PVM Monitor. Which is 25", "only 1080P" and $5500.
    This stuff ISN'T designed for consumers. It's crazy to me that people come in and complain and bitch and moan and they're complaining about things they have no idea about.
    The reason why a thread like this gets visibility is because Apple is bringing professional equipment in the limelight. But no one is complaining at the $40k displays that this display is supposed to go against. Or at other companies that also make workstations that cost $6k+.

    Yeah, this Eizo ain't for you either: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1425544-REG/eizo_cg319x_4k_bk_31_1_dci_4k_wide_screen.html
    (Also that monitor has lower end specs and costs the same).

    And neither is the upcoming Eizo CG3145 that is going to cost $30k.

    For reference, this is an example of what Apple is intending on competing with:
    https://www.adorama.com/tvlum310r.html
    Complain about that more too please.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2019
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  15. lightsout

    lightsout [H]ard|Gawd

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    Ohhh, that was good lol.
     
  16. gan7114

    gan7114 Limp Gawd

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    Eh, I’m just not impressed.

    Okay, so it’s 6K instead of 4K. I’ll give it that. It’s meant to be used as a “retina” display working with 4K content, so it’ll be easier to operate in software suites having a full 4K content window plus all the software controls on screen (see my post in the other thread from February for the proportions). Similar to working with 1080p content on a 1440p or 4K monitor. So that’s cool.

    But let’s be honest. Good DCI-P3 coverage, HDR1000, and (soon) 576 FALD can be found in “gamer” oriented (what even IS “gamer” vs “professional” anymore??) offerings in the $2K range. Sure, they’re not 6K, but they’re also not $6K either (with stand).

    I’ve been trying to view this monitor objectively, but except for it being 6K, I’m not seeing the value proposition. Unless it’s calibrated so incredibly well where it’s returning Sony BVM X300 levels of accuracy (and I highly doubt that), then no.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2019
  17. bigbluefe

    bigbluefe Gawd

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    That's a lot of words to completely ignore the fact that a single monitor could be the best at everything and yet somehow still isn't.
     
  18. GoldenTiger

    GoldenTiger [H]ard as it Gets

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    No, you're not understanding anything we're telling you. It's OK... You will look back on this thread eventually and laugh at your young self.
     
  19. Iratus

    Iratus [H]ard|Gawd

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    Why are you so angry, just don’t buy it.

    Professional equipment costs a lot more because the market can bear the price. Same reason a professional graphics card is 5 times the price. It’s complete artificial differentiation but it you need it because your software does or double fp performance then it’s cheap.

    If you’re a low end video shop or mid level photo studio it’s fine. They’re pitching against Eizo and NEC not Acer and there’s no point in creating features those markets don’t need. R&D isn’t free and this isn’t supposed to be the BEST monitor at everything. That can’t be done affordably.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2019
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  20. kasakka

    kasakka [H]ard|Gawd

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    I actually have one of those Sonys and bought it for next to nothing when a TV studio was throwing them out. I use it with old consoles and emulators to get a more authentic CRT experience and it looks fantastic. But it doesn’t have much resolution and would be a terrible thing to use for anything but video. It’s a very purpose built device and that’s what those expensive high end displays are.

    The new Apple one never claims that it is able to do everything those expensive Sonys or Eizos do but is meant to fall somewhere below them at a much cheaper price, making it a great display for everything but those very specific video editing needs.

    It’s not meant for gamers at all so high refresh rates, VRR etc are totally irrelevant features for something like this. I would wager you can at most find a handful of users on this forum who might fit the target market for this.

    That said, the stand and even the VESA adapter are ridiculously priced. What a PR blunder. They could have sold a 6K screen for 6K$ with the stand and nobody would have batted an eye.
     
  21. xorbe

    xorbe [H]ardness Supreme

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    It's some sort of special reference monitor that undercuts the competition. Those who need it will just buy it. It's not for the masses. Sort of weird that it was announced like that to the masses though.
     
  22. Vega

    Vega [H]ardness Supreme

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    That's the thing, Apple displays have always been for pro-sumers. Now they are targeting high end business.
     
  23. UnknownSouljer

    UnknownSouljer [H]ardness Supreme

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    That isn’t entirely true. The Mac Pro has never been strictly a prosumer device. But I agree that they never have truly made a pro display until now. But obviously they’re trying to break into that market.
     
  24. P1x3L

    P1x3L n00b

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    Every time someone says, "it was made for professionals, not gamers" or some permutation thereof, I can't help but think 1) 99% of people who are repeating this have not been professionals of this type 2) it is marketing like "it is for models," "it is for the most advanced," "it is for the most beautiful," "it is for the richest." Not even the latter is true because the richest could easily build something that a) runs OSX b) beats that performance-wise and c) can be repaired easily.

    The primary reason people think this display looks so good at these demos is because of its brightness. That would be extremely fatiguing to any professional to have cranked all of the time. So at a reasonable brightness next to Eizo and Sony displays, I don't think you'd see any significant difference. The $30k display people are comparing it to is OLED, so that is not a fair comparison.

    "Why are you so angry, just don’t buy it." -- This is annoying.

    Let's wait until someone actually tests that contrast ratio - I'm skeptical.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2019
  25. aeliusg

    aeliusg Gawd

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    What don't people understand? It's not marketed for enthusiasts and gamers. It's marketed for people who do "work" on their device and actually expect some return for it beyond the intangible and the enjoyability of it all. This is what's marketed for gamers at around the same price:
    c06191756.png
    Have at it.
     
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  26. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    They do have their 'iMac Pro' line now though which seems to serve the purpose that entry-level Mac Pro systems once served. These new 'Pro' machines typify what that should mean when applied to Apple. I have to say that I'm warming up to the idea, though I doubt I'll ever be in the market.
     
  27. Iratus

    Iratus [H]ard|Gawd

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    Speaking for myself I can stop you there chief. I am that 1%, I run a visualisation company, used to support the editing and broadcast suites for a massive broadcaster and also did the executive support (and implementation of Mac’s for designers) across a large top tier fashion label. I know this world.

    It’s for professionals not gamers.

    it’s a weird niche of specification that I don’t really get what they’re going for (4K native with space for tools I guess) and the stand cost is stupid (I could make an argument that everyone uses arms, but they don’t, visual professionals don’t seem to give a shit about ergonomics) but ultimately for business it’s just different. If you make money with it then it’s cheap.

    Heck you can even make a perfectly justifiable business case on things like this literally just on perception. If I give absolute top end equipment to my employees, which gives me an amazing looking office, which helps me attract and retain the best people. Then I win and it’s a bargain, because the people make three times as much money as they cost and the delta between the best people and normal is easily worth $50k a year ($400k+ for developers). $2k chair, $2k desk, $3k laptop, $10k visual workstation, $30k analytics workstation, heck even the software that costs $800 per head. A month. 95% of the people on here could do it more cost effectively given time and play games too, but it’s a business and it brings a different type of concern.

    Don’t buy it and don’t be angry is good advice for anyone and in most things.
     
  28. shansoft

    shansoft [H]ardness Supreme

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    This is literally the only display in the market with high PPI and is QLED.....

    With it's thunderbolt hub support I don't get why people are complaining on it's pricing.

    I for one is tempted to get one.... Only the pro stand that I cannot justify it's pricing.
     
  29. crazycuz20

    crazycuz20 [H]Lite

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    It wasn’t presented to the masses, it was presented at their WWDC, worldwide developers conference, i.e. professionals. Thing is Apple has the status that everyone, for better or worse, pays attention, even ignorant consumers who don’t know the difference between real professional equipment versus prosumer versus commercial. Professionals, specifically desktop publishing, used to be one of their target markets but they got away from it when print all but died and Jobs turned around the company with the first CRT iMac in 1998. Now all these kids now just know Apple as a consumer products company since the last Mac Pro is so old.

    The hypocrisy some people have for Apple is ridiculous, you’ll spend 500% more for professional IT equipment over off the shelf, like servers, network switches, routers that don’t have half the “gaming” features but are more reliable, have real customer support, but swear up and down when Apple releases their professional products for photo and video editing studios because they think the prices are outrageous. Tools for the trade, that’s all it is.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
  30. bigbluefe

    bigbluefe Gawd

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    So motion blur and juddering make for awesome video editing monitors? Sure dude.
     
  31. Aurelius

    Aurelius 2[H]4U

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    Are you seriously trying to tell a visualization company leader, the very sort of person this monitor is designed for, that you know more about pro displays than they do? What qualifications do you have?

    Look, we get it. You hate Apple and don't want to let that hate fade. But at a certain point you have to accept that some products aren't meant for you, and that a pro monitor has a different set of priorities than a gaming monitor.
     
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  32. Dan_D

    Dan_D [H]ard as it Gets

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    The price is still a bit on the high side as far as I'm concerned, but I'm not making fun of the price of the monitor itself. It's the stand which is utterly ridiculous.
     
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  33. Iratus

    Iratus [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yeah the stand price is stupid. Humanscale M8 is the best (well best I’ve tried and they look nice and have the multi monitor scalability) arm for these sorts of screens and they cost a fraction of that.

    Plus I get a bulk discount. That ain’t happening with apple.
     
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  34. Verge

    Verge [H]ardness Supreme

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    Aaah the old light modulating cells trick. Didn't sony make a tv or something similar with it. Been wanting DLP projectors to do similar for years, nobody will :(
     
  35. InaDaise

    InaDaise [H]Lite

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    It got my attention because I'd like to see how much better games look in 6k. I play games in 4k for exploration, meaning I play for the graphics or how a game looks. So my characters are all in touring mode when possible. So I searched for games that support 6k resolutions and got basically info about games supporting 8k. Which should be good enough considering ones that support 8k should support 6k I guess.

    To help explain what I'm after I'd like to see Metro Exodus, BF5, Crysis 3, Witcher 3 and other like those in 6k. To see if the textures are any more detailed as well as the rest of the visuals. I have a Titan RTX on a i7 7700 so it may be enough for 6k but not sure for a single card solution. Currently with a 32" IPS 4k monitor and another rig on a 40" 4k TV.

    Not saying I'm seriously considering buying this monitor. But it can give me something to think about, something to occupy my mind in my retirement where I play games in 4k and read & post a little on the net. And anyway 8k gaming is coming so all my rigs will have to be replaced for it and so the hardware cycles go on and on.
     
  36. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    The textures should be the same. Higher resolution gets you more per-frame detail to your eyes, if the detail is there already in the software, and can net you greater effective view distance.

    If the pixels are already too small to see, though, you'll likely get nearly the same benefit from using super sampling / super resolution instead.
     
  37. shansoft

    shansoft [H]ardness Supreme

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    Supersampling will blur out the images and artifact, this will not. I been using 5K UltraFine @ 5K resolution on all games, and its much better than super sampling on the same resolution.
     
  38. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I'll say that depends on the tech being used, and the game / application itself, on top of the viewer's visual acuity, size of the display, and viewer's viewing distance. I do realize that older super-sampling algorithms could be a bit heavy-handed.
     
  39. bigbluefe

    bigbluefe Gawd

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    Apple's just another company. I don't like them any more or less than Samsung or Intel or AMD.

    Nice appeal to authority there, though. Cute.
     
  40. thelead

    thelead 2[H]4U

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    The level of trolling (or crazy) is out of control here lol

    Stop falling for it people...
     
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