Apple: 2018 MacBook Pro Throttling Is a Bug, Fix Now Available

diehardman

n00b
Joined
Jan 17, 2017
Messages
43
Where is the i9 XPS 15 that is 75% the performance of the older version? Video I found was showing the i9 XPS 15 to render faster than the previous version.
The i9 is running into thermal issues on a other laptops https://www.notebookcheck.net/Some-...nning-any-faster-than-a-Core-i7.317268.0.html . This is mostly Intel's fault for keeping the same TDP as the i7, and basing the TDP off the base frequency. For the XPS 15, I was more referring to the massive QC issues that something like the XPS has and nobody cares, but that's probably a different topic.

This is too-aggressive thermal throttling that took less than a week to be fixed (are the i9 models even available at retail?) It's a mountain out of a molehill.
 
Last edited:

A Little Teapot

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 9, 2016
Messages
146
It is not thermal throttling, but the VRMs are underspecified and cannot provide enough juice to the cpu under heavy load. It cannot be fixed, but can be mitigated in software. Read here

Of course with low spec vrms I wonder how long these machines will last before starting to get mass failures due to blown vrms.

Given Apple's preference for quiet fans over efficient cooling, I'd wager not very long at all. Probably just past the warranty period.
 

viper1152012

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 20, 2012
Messages
1,025
Funny that post about i9 processors does NOT illustrate the same issue as the mac pro with i9.
Try again
 

Exavior

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Dec 13, 2005
Messages
9,700
The i9 is running into thermal issues on a other laptops https://www.notebookcheck.net/Some-Intel-Core-i9-laptops-are-not-running-any-faster-than-a-Core-i7.317268.0.html . This is mostly Intel's fault for keeping the same TDP as the i7, and basing the TDP off the base frequency. For the XPS 15, I was more referring to the massive QC issues that something like the XPS has and nobody cares, but that's probably a different topic.

This is too-aggressive thermal throttling that took less than a week to be fixed (are the i9 models even available at retail?) It's a mountain out of a molehill.


Yes, that is how the person got it that did the original reivew. Just go to apple's site and you can configure a pro to have an i9. So they are out at retail.

As point out in the person I quoted below different issue so no this isn't the exact same issue on every i9 device. In what you posted it states that i9 runs at 0 - 30% better. Yes 0% better is not good, but at least running at no improvement is still better at than worse performance. So it might be showing an issue, but not that all have the same issue that Apple just fixed. A slight difference.

Funny that post about i9 processors does NOT illustrate the same issue as the mac pro with i9.
Try again

you mean an i7 and an i9 running at the exact same performance isn't the same as an i9 running much slower? Next you are going to tell me a $10 bill and a $100 bill aren't worth the same value.

No, they demonstrate what will likely be the case post-fix https://www.macrumors.com/2018/07/24/throttling-fix-2018-macbook-pro-improvements/ . Let's all act like we are 12 year old fanboys and say things "try again" though.

You are currently trying to move the goal post. Sadly you are the person that is acting more like a fanboy in that you are upset that people are not putting Apple up on a pedestal and praising them. The article that you linked to did not show what you were stating which is all i9 laptops have the problem were at best they are worse off than an i7. Which is what you were being called out for and being told to try again. You did show that i9s are not always out performing at as high of levels, but that is a different statement than what you made. That second article you linked to there does show that that patch appears to resolve the performance issue, but that is not what you posted a link to a few post above when you were trying to show that the XPS 15 also runs far slower on a i9 CPU. So you are trying to argue very different points and are all over the place with what you are trying to prove.

Your mentality, and those like you, is the reason this is more of a news story than what you linked to. The mindset that Apple can do no wrong, they are not at fault for anything and everything they make is perfect. Think of issues like a beach ball. If you toss it into the water it will float, and be pretty steady and blends into the water. The same with issues, if there is normal discussion they just go with the tide and aren't that major of news. Now as soon as you try to hold that ball under water it is going to want to push up and will pop out of the water. Just like people trying to overly defend an issue. The more people try to push it down and make it into a none issue the more people will push back and the more of a news story it will become because people are going to push back harder and harder until it flies up. Nobody is going to overly defend Dell / Alienware and claim that all their releases are perfect and without fault. Hell, most will probably just say that the issue is what is stamped on the lid not the hardware inside. That is vs an Apple loyalist who is going to flight tooth and nail to defend Apple and prove to the world that the device is perfect in every way and there is no way that anything could be less than the highest standard with every square inch of the unit. As soon as you get that mindset going, people are going to latch on and start to fight back.
 

diehardman

n00b
Joined
Jan 17, 2017
Messages
43
You are currently trying to move the goal post. Sadly you are the person that is acting more like a fanboy in that you are upset that people are not putting Apple up on a pedestal and praising them. The article that you linked to did not show what you were stating which is all i9 laptops have the problem were at best they are worse off than an i7. Which is what you were being called out for and being told to try again. You did show that i9s are not always out performing at as high of levels, but that is a different statement than what you made. That second article you linked to there does show that that patch appears to resolve the performance issue, but that is not what you posted a link to a few post above when you were trying to show that the XPS 15 also runs far slower on a i9 CPU. So you are trying to argue very different points and are all over the place with what you are trying to prove.

Your mentality, and those like you, is the reason this is more of a news story than what you linked to. The mindset that Apple can do no wrong, they are not at fault for anything and everything they make is perfect. Think of issues like a beach ball. If you toss it into the water it will float, and be pretty steady and blends into the water. The same with issues, if there is normal discussion they just go with the tide and aren't that major of news. Now as soon as you try to hold that ball under water it is going to want to push up and will pop out of the water. Just like people trying to overly defend an issue. The more people try to push it down and make it into a none issue the more people will push back and the more of a news story it will become because people are going to push back harder and harder until it flies up. Nobody is going to overly defend Dell / Alienware and claim that all their releases are perfect and without fault. Hell, most will probably just say that the issue is what is stamped on the lid not the hardware inside. That is vs an Apple loyalist who is going to flight tooth and nail to defend Apple and prove to the world that the device is perfect in every way and there is no way that anything could be less than the highest standard with every square inch of the unit. As soon as you get that mindset going, people are going to latch on and start to fight back.
This was an overly long response to the wrong person. I have 0 Apple products and just the find the double standards regarding Apple products on this forum funny. Anyone thinking that Apple products don't have any problems is a fanboy or a moron, and anyone making this issue out to be some huge thing is .. also that. Apple haters have plenty to attack, but this one was the wrong hill to die on.

BTW i never said the XPS was slower when it had an i9, it was in reference to its VRM throttling issues. https://www.ultrabookreview.com/14875-fix-throttling-xps-15/
 

Kaitian

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 12, 2008
Messages
4,870
It's funny that when something like an XPS 15 has this same issue, nobody gives a shit.



Or you know, adjust software controlled thermal throttling that doesn't make the CPU constantly cycle between max turbo and 800mhz.
Therefore reducing the amount of power that Apple specified when they released this product. Hence it's a design flaw that cannot be fixed by software. People actually have to go out of their way to upgrade the laptop to include the i9 which supposedly delivers more performance than their default option. Since this performs worse than their default option, this is a design flaw.
 

diehardman

n00b
Joined
Jan 17, 2017
Messages
43
Therefore reducing the amount of power that Apple specified when they released this product. Hence it's a design flaw that cannot be fixed by software.
So now all laptops that don't run at max turbo boost are now fundamentally flawed by design? got it.
 

Kaitian

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 12, 2008
Messages
4,870
So now all laptops that don't run at max turbo boost are now fundamentally flawed by design? got it.
No, just this one. Why is their default option better performing than their i9 upgrade that they have to go out of their way to select? Oh that's right, the motherboard cannot handle the i9 because they did not design it properly ergo a design flaw.

What does Apple advertise?
morepower.PNG


So if your upgrade to the i9 does not deliver more power / performance than the default option, then it's a design flaw.

This is their default selection for that model
default.PNG
 

Kaitian

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 12, 2008
Messages
4,870
Um, it does?

They're not comparing apples to oranges in that screenshot. You really can't read, can you? "2017 2.9Ghz Core i7". That's not the same model / generation.

I'll highlight it again for you

"2017 2.9Ghz Core i7"
 

diehardman

n00b
Joined
Jan 17, 2017
Messages
43
They're not comparing apples to oranges in that screenshot. You really can't read, can you? "2017 2.9Ghz Core i7". That's not the same model / generation.

I'll highlight it again for you

"2017 2.9Ghz Core i7"

You highlighted the new model advertising more power and performance, and it does that. Then you move the goalpost after that to be "from the default option", to which we have already talked about the problems with the i9 in general. I would recommend a listen to a recent podcast with Ian Cutress here https://overcast.fm/+K8lj8r8ZQ
 

Kaitian

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 12, 2008
Messages
4,870
You highlighted the new model advertising more power and performance, and it does that. Then you move the goalpost after that to be "from the default option", to which we have already talked about the problems with the i9 in general. I would recommend a listen to a recent podcast with Ian Cutress here https://overcast.fm/+K8lj8r8ZQ
No, it doesn't. I moved no goalpost. You did when you linked me a twitter post that didn't compare apples to oranges. It's still a significant design flaw due to the VRM not being able to provide power to the processor despite the processor being capable of handling more. I recommend Louis Rossman if you're going to make recommendations then

 

Neapolitan6th

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Nov 18, 2016
Messages
1,182
It seems Apple's patch did end up alleviating some of the issues that caused the original controversy.

One of the first youtubers to call out Apple for thermal throttling (Dave Lee), has since posted his before and post patch results. And the issue has seemed to largely go away.

He also briefly compares his results to 6 other core i9 laptops that he has looked at (3 thin and lights, 3 bigger gaming style ones)

He found that the Macbook Pro fell in line with other systems of its weight class and it did so with the lowest noise levels of the batch.

So aside from barking at companies to make their devices chunkier, I think the controversy is largely done here.

Of course I would withhold judgement until a more technical reviewer runs some more in depth analysis on pre and post patch performance.
 

Kaitian

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 12, 2008
Messages
4,870
It seems Apple's patch did end up alleviating some of the issues that caused the original controversy.

One of the first youtubers to call out Apple for thermal throttling (Dave Lee), has since posted his before and post patch results. And the issue has seemed to largely go away.

He also briefly compares his results to 6 other core i9 laptops that he has looked at (3 thin and lights, 3 bigger gaming style ones)

He found that the Macbook Pro fell in line with other systems of its weight class and it did so with the lowest noise levels of the batch.

So aside from barking at companies to make their devices chunkier, I think the controversy is largely done here.

Of course I would withhold judgement until a more technical reviewer runs some more in depth analysis on pre and post patch performance.

I suspect that these will start failing immediately around when the warranty is up and they do a stealth announcement that they will be doing a fix within 3 years of the purchase date.
 

ZeqOBpf6

Gawd
Joined
Aug 24, 2014
Messages
843
It seems Apple's patch did end up alleviating some of the issues that caused the original controversy.

One of the first youtubers to call out Apple for thermal throttling (Dave Lee), has since posted his before and post patch results. And the issue has seemed to largely go away.

He also briefly compares his results to 6 other core i9 laptops that he has looked at (3 thin and lights, 3 bigger gaming style ones)

He found that the Macbook Pro fell in line with other systems of its weight class and it did so with the lowest noise levels of the batch.

So aside from barking at companies to make their devices chunkier, I think the controversy is largely done here.

Of course I would withhold judgement until a more technical reviewer runs some more in depth analysis on pre and post patch performance.

This would suggest that the software engineering team at Apple, working with the hardware engineering team at Apple would know more than the front page peanut gallery at Hardocp, which is impossible. That much we have established. So sorry, not clicking the video link, but you're wrong.
 

Neapolitan6th

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Nov 18, 2016
Messages
1,182
This would suggest that the software engineering team at Apple, working with the hardware engineering team at Apple would know more than the front page peanut gallery at Hardocp, which is impossible. That much we have established. So sorry, not clicking the video link, but you're wrong.
I'm bit confused it sounds like you are agreeing with me and disagreeing with me at the same time.

While in reality I wasn't trying to take an opinion and put to bed some of the armchair experts duking it out here.

Confused about you and the video link too. It would seem to support your opinion?

I also deferred judgement to more informed tech journalists for the final word on the matter.

Just wondering if some allies were caught in the crossfire here? Or maybe that was just your initial sarcasm carried through the whole paragraph? Because I agree with what you're saying dude, so I'm thinking something got lost in translation (my translation probably)
 
Last edited:

juanrga

2[H]4U
Joined
Feb 22, 2017
Messages
2,804
Apple has officially responded to the throttling seen in the higher-end 2018 MacBook Pro with Core i9 chip and other 2018 MacBook Pro models: apparently, it was unintentional and caused by a bug. The company has released an update to macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 that addresses the issue.

The throttling issue first came to light on July 17, a few days after the first new 2018 MacBook Pros began shipping out to customers. YouTuber Dave Lee tested the top-of-the-line 2018 15-inch MacBook Pro with 2.9GHz Core i9 chip using Adobe's Premiere Pro and found that it was underperforming compared to a 2017 MacBook Pro with a Core i7 chip.

This official patch is better than the unofficial patch that tunned settings to stop VRM throttling

 

viper1152012

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 20, 2012
Messages
1,025

viper1152012

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 20, 2012
Messages
1,025
I never said i9 processors were Implemented well in ANY manufacturer, however since this thread is complaining about Apple not being above board at engineering a BETTER (not) solution than their competitors, then I am commenting on that.

Its bad. Not good.

I have customers that want to transcode on these and I wave them away from the i9 show.

I7 8750h has my vote.
 

w4ffles

2[H]4U
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
2,366
So now all laptops that don't run at max turbo boost are now fundamentally flawed by design? got it.
It's being throttled to below base clock. That's the issue. If it could run 100% at base clock on all 4 cores then this wouldn't have been an issue.

LinusTechTips tested the claims. They tried exporting a video in Final Cut Pro and the CPU throttled in under a minute.
 

zkostik

Gawd
Joined
Sep 17, 2009
Messages
929
It is not thermal throttling, but the VRMs are underspecified and cannot provide enough juice to the cpu under heavy load. It cannot be fixed, but can be mitigated in software. Read here

Of course with low spec vrms I wonder how long these machines will last before starting to get mass failures due to blown vrms.

I bet they will last long enough to fall out of the default warranty or Apple will no honor warranty stating machine has been abused and melted for being used with inadequate cooling or surface that covers vents. Given their track record and my experiences, I really wouldn't be surprised if this comes out to be true.
 

zkostik

Gawd
Joined
Sep 17, 2009
Messages
929
It's funny that when something like an XPS 15 has this same issue, nobody gives a shit.



Or you know, adjust software controlled thermal throttling that doesn't make the CPU constantly cycle between max turbo and 800mhz.

Except Dell XP15 is nearly $1500 cheaper for same exact specs so you can still very much argue against Apple in this department. I would agree that both have no excuse to throttle given their high price.
 
Top