Anyone think the 3080 supply availability might be tied to the Big Navi release?

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DarkSideA8

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Pure bitter speculation... But it would be a coup to have the Big Navi release overshadowed by a wave of 3k series card purchases. 3070 releases Oct 15, and the AMD event is on the 28th...

Based on this I don't see any reason for them to rush them to market
 

Dan_D

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Pure bitter speculation... But it would be a coup to have the Big Navi release overshadowed by a wave of 3k series card purchases. 3070 releases Oct 15, and the AMD event is on the 28th...

Based on this I don't see any reason for them to rush them to market

No, I don't. It would have made more sense for 30 series cards to be available prior to the launch of Big Navi. People who buy those cards now probably aren't going to be buying Big Navi. NVIDIA having availability problems may potentially drive people to buy AMD cards if they are close enough in performance and price. This isn't what NVIDIA wants.
 

DarkSideA8

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Mind you, this just my bitterness about the inability to get the card manifested as snark
 

LukeTbk

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Could be (more in the sense wanting to release it even if it is not ready to beat AMD release date) and not needing to pay the extra that they would need to pay to have them ready right now if that was possible (has long has supply is good 1-2 week before RDNA 2 release I guess it would do the trick).

That they could have supply at no extra cost during the current supply chain issues but decide not to ? I do not see why.

I think that 3080 supply availability could be very well tied to the big navi release, in the sense that without a 2020 Big Navi released maybe the 3080 would not have been released in September at all.
 
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sethk

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Do I think 3080 supply is tied to Navi? No. Because that would be insane.
I think, if anything, they'd want to sell all the cards they can while this is the only game in town. Worst case, Big Navi is wonderful and they have to cut prices or release a faster SKU at the same price. Why would Big Navi make them wait?
 

Chelica

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If they think is good marketing to hold back until a competitor releases their card in hopes that they are to gain back market share by releasing more inventory, that marketing department needs to get their heads checked. That's a long way to gamble for a person that wanted to get an NVIDIA card to change their minds and get a Navi card. NVIDIA is also gambling that their competitors are going to goof and not have enough cards to meet demand.

I just think it's too much 4D chess and gambling for NVIDIA to scheme. I just think they done goofed...lol
 

Teenyman45

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Ampere and Big Navi are running on entirely different nodes though right? I don't see how one would affect the other other than if it was Nvidia couldn't buy space on the 7nm node back when those allocations were first being sold because it was pre-booked by AMD.
 

Ready4Dis

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Ampere and Big Navi are running on entirely different nodes though right? I don't see how one would affect the other other than if it was Nvidia couldn't buy space on the 7nm node back when those allocations were first being sold because it was pre-booked by AMD.
We don't know WHY NVIDIA wasn't able to secure 7nm, but it is the better node and they had to settle for Samsung. It's possible at the time it didn't look like TSMC had enough capacity, remember NVIDIA outsells AMD 3:1 (or more), so enough capacity for AMD != enough for NVIDIA. Also, it's not just AMD capacity at TSMC, they are only 30% of the 7nm capacity and that's only because Apple moved to 5nm. Also, they didn't know the Huaweui thing was going to happen either. I think NMvidia made the decision they made based on price (TSMC is more expensive because they have a better node and more people fighting for it) and capacity at the time. That said, I absolutely expect to see more availability of NVIDIA cards mid-late october, not beacuse they are holding them, just because this was a rushed release and the channels will finally be seeing some products. The early/rushed release was just to make sure they were first, knowing they didn't have near the amount of product for a real release.
 

Teenyman45

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Of course you'll see more in October as more cards trickle in. And each cargo flight will have an employee or two from the AiB's soldering mlcc arrays in place of one or poscaps to re-finish the cards that had been completed prior to the current power delivery issues coming to light.
 

MangoSeed

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It's possible at the time it didn't look like TSMC had enough capacity, remember NVIDIA outsells AMD 3:1 (or more), so enough capacity for AMD != enough for NVIDIA.

That’s definitely part of it. We will see how many wafers AMD allocates to Navi over Zen 3. Nvidia is also playing the long game. It’s much better to have 2 fabs than one from a risk and cost perspective.
 

exlink

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That’s definitely part of it. We will see how many wafers AMD allocates to Navi over Zen 3. Nvidia is also playing the long game. It’s much better to have 2 fabs than one from a risk and cost perspective.
Do they have to also bring PS5 and XSX chips into the allocation equation as well? Because those consoles also sold out instantly already and demand is high for those.

I think many people are being way too optimistic that RDNA2 GPUs and potentially Zen 3 CPUs won’t suffer supply shortages just like pretty much every other piece of popular tech this year...
 

MangoSeed

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Do they have to also bring PS5 and XSX chips into the allocation equation as well? Because those consoles also sold out instantly already and demand is high for those.

I think people are being way too optimistic that RDNA2 GPUs and potentially Zen 3 CPUs won’t suffer supply shortages just like pretty much every other piece of popular tech this year...

Console chips are coming from Microsoft and Sony wafers, not AMD. I don’t know why anyone would expect significant supply of RDNA2 unless AMD has been stockpiling a long time. It’s almost certain that Zen 3 will get priority.
 

-Strelok-

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When was the last time Nvidia even mentioned AMD in their releases? Nvidia has been competing with themselves for quite a while now, I don't think they really cared too much about AMD. It might change this time around, but I doubt it.
 

DarkSideA8

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Console chips are coming from Microsoft and Sony wafers, not AMD. I don’t know why anyone would expect significant supply of RDNA2 unless AMD has been stockpiling a long time. It’s almost certain that Zen 3 will get priority.

Yeah - but who is producing the graphics cards?
 

hesho

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When was the last time Nvidia even mentioned AMD in their releases? Nvidia has been competing with themselves for quite a while now, I don't think they really cared too much about AMD. It might change this time around, but I doubt it.

i personally think nvidia very much cares about AMD because if they didn't, they would have priced ampere video cards like what they did with the turing cards. Nvidia seems to love money so there is no way they priced ampere to help out the consumer.
 

exlink

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i personally think nvidia very much cares about AMD because if they didn't, they would have priced ampere video cards like what they did with the turing cards. Nvidia seems to love money so there is no way they priced ampere to help out the consumer.
IIRC, Nvidia admitted that the RTX 20 series didn't sell as well as they had hoped and largely deemed the reason to be price. That could explain why the RTX 3080 is priced more reasonably.
 

DF-1

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IIRC, Nvidia admitted that the RTX 20 series didn't sell as well as they had hoped and largely deemed the reason to be price. That could explain why the RTX 3080 is priced more reasonably.
and yet their stock soared to all time highs. Must've been some crazy margins.
 

-Strelok-

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and yet their stock soared to all time highs. Must've been some crazy margins.
Nvidia is more than just gaming GPUs and most of that hype was on them selling more “professional” cards.
 

Ready4Dis

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Do they have to also bring PS5 and XSX chips into the allocation equation as well? Because those consoles also sold out instantly already and demand is high for those.

I think many people are being way too optimistic that RDNA2 GPUs and potentially Zen 3 CPUs won’t suffer supply shortages just like pretty much every other piece of popular tech this year...
I 100% think they will be in short supply. I don't think they'll be 3080 short, but short non the less. I agree, they do have a lot going on, so if they can execute better than NVIDIA who literally just has one thing to do... that says a lot :). That said, I do expect shortages, and this would be inline with their past launches. I just don't think it'll be as bad as NVIDIA, but still not great.
 

DF-1

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Nvidia is more than just gaming GPUs and most of that hype was on them selling more “professional” cards.
sure, but until the very last earning season gaming GPUs were the biggest section. so the biggest section didnt sell as well, and the stock went 100%+?
 

sethk

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Samsung has given Nvidia very good pricing for the 8nm process. Pricing is not completely made up, if TSMC had charged more per transistor, these cards would be more expensive. Nvidia wants to maintain a profit margin, and the more cards they make at a lower price point that supports that margin level, the larger their overall profits, as long as they can sell all the chips they make.
Even if they could have sold the current cards at a higher price to meet early adopter thirst, they'd have a revolt if prices dropped in two months, once that initial demand was met and they were forced to drop prices or cut production. As such, this is sustainable pricing and they will set a lot more cards than Turing, while maintaining profit margins or possibly increasing margins over Turing.
 

FrgMstr

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Nvidia can't make margin at 3080 MSRP. Only going to come from 3080s well over that. Supply on those will be coming.
 

sethk

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I thought Nvidia sells chips and supporting bits. Manufacturers like Asus and EVGA choose cooling, assembly, binning and power delivery. OC or water cooled cards sold by manufacturers at $200 over the MSRP don't necessarily make Nvidia any more money (that I'm aware of) than those sold at MSRP unless there's related parts Nvidia are selling to EVGA etc. If someone knows differently, please explain.
 

FrgMstr

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I thought Nvidia sells chips and supporting bits. Manufacturers like Asus and EVGA choose cooling, assembly, binning and power delivery. OC or water cooled cards sold by manufacturers at $200 over the MSRP don't necessarily make Nvidia any more money (that I'm aware of) than those sold at MSRP unless there's related parts Nvidia are selling to EVGA etc. If someone knows differently, please explain.
Good start is here.

 

sethk

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I've seen that video. What about it? Personally I find a lot of MLID to be extremely biased consiprancy mongering without a good deep knowledge of how the business works, with occassional interesting tidbits thrown in and that's how I take it. Was there something in there about how Nvidia profits at higher MSRPs by OEMs for a given GPU? There's an implication there that OEMs selling at a higher price pass more money back to Nvidia (though never stated in that way) - I haven't seen anything to back that up. The article and video is a lot of statements that never lead to a clear way in which Nvidia makes more money off of more expensive 3rd party cards than cheaper. If they are just saying that setting a lower MSRP will lead to more demand, which then leads to higher priced cards, then yeah, duh. I think we all see that.
There's a bit about Nvidia not really wanting to sell FEs at MSRP because they'd rather sell them to other OEMs which I tend to agree with, but nothing about them getting more from EVGA on an $850 OC 3080 than a $699 MSRP card. Nvidia sold them the GPU at the same price for both, AFAIK. They'd love it EVGA sold them all at $699 if EVGA could swing it, AFAIK.

I would also point out that even though the FE got good reviews, it's not like the EVGA black gets bad reviews (at the same price). The story implies that the FE is reviewed so much better than other cards, leading to bigger demand, when the "bad" cards like the EVGA black are bought up due to scarcity. I'd be just as happy to pick up a EVGA black if it was available (or any other card, really).

It bears repeating that Nvidia doesn't profit from price gouging or scalping by third parties.
 

FrgMstr

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I've seen that video. What about it? Personally I find a lot of MLID to be extremely biased consiprancy mongering without a good deep knowledge of how the business works, with occassional interesting tidbits thrown in and that's how I take it. Was there something in there about how Nvidia profits at higher MSRPs by OEMs for a given GPU? There's an implication there that OEMs selling at a higher price pass more money back to Nvidia (though never stated in that way) - I haven't seen anything to back that up. The article and video is a lot of statements that never lead to a clear way in which Nvidia makes more money off of more expensive 3rd party cards than cheaper. If they are just saying that setting a lower MSRP will lead to more demand, which then leads to higher priced cards, then yeah, duh. I think we all see that.
There's a bit about Nvidia not really wanting to sell FEs at MSRP because they'd rather sell them to other OEMs which I tend to agree with, but nothing about them getting more from EVGA on an $850 OC 3080 than a $699 MSRP card. Nvidia sold them the GPU at the same price for both, AFAIK. They'd love it EVGA sold them all at $699 if EVGA could swing it, AFAIK.

I would also point out that even though the FE got good reviews, it's not like the EVGA black gets bad reviews (at the same price). The story implies that the FE is reviewed so much better than other cards, leading to bigger demand, when the "bad" cards like the EVGA black are bought up due to scarcity. I'd be just as happy to pick up a EVGA black if it was available (or any other card, really).

It bears repeating that Nvidia doesn't profit from price gouging or scalping by third parties.
Seems like you have the full understanding you desire. Cheers.
 

MangoSeed

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I would also point out that even though the FE got good reviews, it's not like the EVGA black gets bad reviews (at the same price). The story implies that the FE is reviewed so much better than other cards, leading to bigger demand, when the "bad" cards like the EVGA black are bought up due to scarcity. I'd be just as happy to pick up a EVGA black if it was available (or any other card, really).

That part of his prediction hasn’t panned out. The FE is nice but other MSRP models are as good or better. I guess now we’re waiting to see whether his other prediction comes true and more expensive models are stocked while the $700 cards remain MIA.
 

FrgMstr

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That part of his prediction hasn’t panned out. The FE is nice but other MSRP models are as good or better. I guess now we’re waiting to see whether his other prediction comes true and more expensive models are stocked while the $700 cards remain MIA.
Interesting, EVGA has five 3000 models, not one at MSRP. So which other ones at MSRP are good or better than FE? I would like to read the reviews.
 

MangoSeed

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Interesting, EVGA has five 3000 models, not one at MSRP. So which other ones at MSRP are good or better than FE? I would like to read the reviews.

I didn’t notice that. Looks like their cheapest cards are $30 over MSRP with a $30 “instant rebate”.

What about the $699 ASUS and MSI cards? They don’t count any more?
 

DarkSideA8

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Interesting, EVGA has five 3000 models, not one at MSRP. So which other ones at MSRP are good or better than FE? I would like to read the reviews.

When first listed - all the cards were at MSRP. But this scarcity situation is allowing manufacturers or retailers to bump prices.

Hate to say it - but the MLiD video feels credible
 

harmattan

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Interesting, EVGA has five 3000 models, not one at MSRP. So which other ones at MSRP are good or better than FE? I would like to read the reviews.

The only cards I've seen in retail i.e. actually for sale at MSRP apart from the elusive FE, albeit for a big-bang hot millisecond, are the Gigabyte Eagle OC (the model I snagged) and the Galax/KFA 3080 (which I don't think they sell in the US). Both have slightly better thermals, slight factory OCs, but are power limited so manual overclocking is a no-go. https://www.kitguru.net/components/graphic-cards/dominic-moass/gigabyte-rtx-3080-eagle-oc-review/

Thing is, "MSRP" is no longer what we think it is. We think it's the price most, if not all, base models will cost in retail. What it actually is a dog-and-pony number nVidia can tout, then release a miniscule volume of stock at. nV and AIBs know they can propagate an MSRP to media, consumers etc. which will drive up interest (furore it seems, in this launch), then people will just buy the higher-priced models when they can't find any MSRP stock. AIBs sell higher-priced/margin cards, then nV can charge more per chip -- it's win-win for them.
 

exlink

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I didn’t notice that. Looks like their cheapest cards are $30 over MSRP with a $30 “instant rebate”.

What about the $699 ASUS and MSI cards? They don’t count any more?
The ASUS TUF cards are arguably the best value for the RTX 30 series currently. Thermals and acoustics noticeably better than most other cards (including FE) and performance is just as good or better as well. They also have an extra HDMI 2.1 port as well which most other cards don’t have.

The MSI Ventus also seems like a good option on paper. Haven’t seen too much about it in reviews though. Most other cards around the $699 MSRP perform just about par or very slightly worse than the FE. Usually within 1-2%.
 
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Aireoth

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I didn’t notice that. Looks like their cheapest cards are $30 over MSRP with a $30 “instant rebate”.

What about the $699 ASUS and MSI cards? They don’t count any more?

nVidia offered AIBs a rebate until early october, rebate passed along via 'instant rebate'.

as for the other cards, we will only know the true answer to that in time, as in will they have continous stock at $699 or will those cards quitely slip away to be replaced by more expensive models.

Good start is here.


I used some high-speed scrubbing and noticed he has the most amazing bobble head with an impressively still body.
 

Ready4Dis

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Reach around?
You have to ask? Of course he wants to look into your eyes while you do it ;).
Ok, I'm not as desperate as Dan_D, but it's funny how many people can't get their hands on these things. Even some decent sized game companies/studios are having issues with 3080's and they can't even get their hands on one to test with, lol. This is the opposite of the geforce experience.
 

RadXge

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Conspiracy theory about a company that benefits from NOT selling his product
OR
Low volume due to poor yields in the context of high-end manufacturing process with a new partner + High demand
:rolleyes:
 
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