Anyone getting worried for AMD?

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Snowdog

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It isn't the performance of the GTX 680 over the 7970, because that barely exists.

Instead it is NVidia's dramatic improvement in perg/watt and perf/area. These were AMD's calling card, and now NVidia's has taken them and made them their own.

This leads to a tougher business case for AMD where it has a less profitable larger die going up against NVidia. Throw in that AMD is not in the best financial state, and it is lagging Intel a fair bit on CPUs.

Put it together and I worry more about the financial viability of AMD.

Is there a positive aspect of AMD I am missing? Fusion enough to sustain them?
 
If you look at Pitcairn you will see that AMD are well set for the mainstream cards. I would imagine the entire range of AMD cards will drop by $50. If (when) this happens we will see the mainstream priced like this.

HD 7850 for $200
HD 7870 for $300

These are the mainstream cards that the majority of gamers will be in the market for. Right now Nvidia do not equivelant 28nm cards in this price range.
 
Positive aspect is they are the other competitor. Other than that, its not good
 
I dont think AMD can lower the prices right now because people who bought 7970's and 7950's are going to yell "i got robbed" and "we want our money back"

i know i would, glad i waited.
 
I'm a bit worried. I really don't see AMD lowering the prices much - maybe down to $480-$499. The card is slower but not by much. A lot of places are selling 3GB GTX580s for around $450, and that has slower performance than a 7970. Really, the 7970 should be priced at $450 to win over the performance to price market. Though $475 to $480 would be the spot where it lies in performance/price according to prices today, but why not just pay the extra $10-20 for the monster of the card?

Luckily, AMD got a head start on its 7900 series, otherwise they would be in serious trouble. Right now, because of that head start, they are pulling out ahead this generation. Also, their drivers are pretty much crap at this point in time, and if they could get some extra performance out of them this could bump them ahead further.
 
TroyX said:
I dont think AMD can lower the prices right now because people who bought 7970's and 7950's are going to yell "i got robbed" and "we want our money back"

i know i would, glad i waited.
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I own two and I wouldn't get mad at all. I knew what I was getting into and was satisfied with $550 price tag. If it drops, then yay competition. It's the way it goes. Now if for no reason they changed the price like they did with the GTX 280 after a week after launch, that's a different story. ($650 -> $450) They did however refund a lot of people though to make it right.
 
It depends on how you look at this. You need to keep in mind consumer gaming graphics is not the only focus, even more so nowadays, for either of these companies. The efficiency disparity of the last two generations was a large part due to what focus Nvidia and AMD decided to take. It wasn't really that the Fermi designs were just wasting die space and watts or that GCN based designs are now wasting die space and watts.
 
The fact that NVIDIA's midrange chip just beat AMD's top chip should have AMD worried....a lot.
 
AMD has barely made any money off their GPUs since they acquired ATi so there's no need to worry now and assume the sky is falling. AMD will likely be selling the 7xxx to HPCs in bulk and making quite a bit of money there rather than the enthusiast. APUs+server+cloud, etc.
 
Yes. Nvidia isn't just going to sit back and watch AMD take the mainstream. Now they know the numbers, they will be out shortly with 640/650Ti, and 660Ti. My guess is mid to late April for volume launch. Liike it was pointed out, AMD can not hang onto performance per watt now. Not to mention look at Nvidia Launch drivers vs. AMD's. That will convert some that were on the fence for a Radeon 7950 to the 680 or to sell the 7950 for the 680 if they already had one. Other than a flicker issue in Skyrim that I saw on another review(which also happened on the 6990 in the reviewers system) GTX 680's drivers at launch are solid.

Be interesting to see next week how many Used 7950/70 hit Flea-bay.
 
Benches came in.
In real gaming there is absolutely no difference between these two cards at stock clocks.
But for pricing its a different story there.
But guys if nvidia had a faster card for now be sure it would of bean more expensive.
But that is why they priced the card like that.
Its a normal tactic.
 
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And conversely, AMD has taken GPGPU and made that their own. This generation was a switch a roo.

GCN was designed for GPGPU because it's going into Fusion products. NV has no market like that, other than Tegra 3, and from what I've heard, T3 is going to get stomped pretty hard. Looking back in hindsight it's obvious NV would make a card that was only good at mainstream gaming, it's the only market they have left. Their low end market is pretty much gone and they have nothing to compete with APUs and Intel IGPs.

When AMD is selling APUs like hotcakes and they're cramming GCN GPUs into tons of computers, the gaming market looks less and less exciting.

And dont' forget AMD got every single GPU in the next gen consoles. I'm not worried for AMD at all.

And enough of this "GK104 IS A MIDRANGE PART AND IT COMPETES WITH AMD'S HIGH END!" They are both around the same size of chip and they are both similar power consumption. NV won, but not by much. NV's high end is going to be a 500mm+ chip, of course it's going to be on a different level than a 350mm chip. AMD just doesn't make big chips. If it's close in power consumption, close in die size, and close in cost, it's in the same damn market segment.

NV just renamed their chips to be GTX 680. I mean, look what GTX 480 did to 5870. Because GTX 480 was a bigger die. Nothing has changed. NV's ~300mm part competes with AMD's ~300mm part. NV just doesn't have a 500mm+ part and the 300mm parts are crazy expensive this round. Judging by the way GTX 680 sold out within a few hours at newegg, it's probably safe to assume that GTX 680 and 7970 are so expensive because yields suck and neither team can make enough chips to meet demand.
 
ICDP said:
So why aren't you yelling at Nvidia for ripping us off? Their mainstream part should have been $300-350 yet it is $500. It's a great card but how quickly the Nvidiots like you forget how you moaned that AMD were pricing HD 7970 way too high compared, Nvidia do the same and they are somehow your hero.
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With it faster than the 7970 they could have charged $600.
 
PRIME1 said:
The fact that NVIDIA's midrange chip just beat AMD's top chip should have AMD worried....a lot.
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That is, IF GK110 delivers and AMD doesn't counter with something better for the 8000 series.

A lot of mystery surrounding those future products right now so it's hard to say.

Honestly, AMD has the hardware but they REALLY need to get on the ball with driver support, especially concerning CFX. That has been a massive failure lately and the hardware is useless without decent drivers.
 
There's nothing to be worried about. The laws that protect against Monopolies will prevent AMD from going under. If my understanding of the laws is correct, in the event that AMD is unable to continue doing business, NVIDIA must provide a subsidy to AMD to keep them alive.

http://www.glumbert.com/media/att
 
That is nothing compared to when I bought my 280 GTX, talk about a massive price drop when the 4870's hit. The 280 GTX's dropped from $650 down to $450 dollars.

Anyways, there is more to the cost of manufacturing than die size. Yields are just as important, a chip that is designed more conservatively with lower stock clock speeds will have better yields. AMD or nVidia could release a chip with an insane clockspeed if they wanted to, it would just have really low yields and low availability. So we don't really know who's chip is cheaper to make.

TroyX said:
I dont think AMD can lower the prices right now because people who bought 7970's and 7950's are going to yell "i got robbed" and "we want our money back"

i know i would, glad i waited.
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TroyX said:
I dont think AMD can lower the prices right now because people who bought 7970's and 7950's are going to yell "i got robbed" and "we want our money back"

i know i would, glad i waited.
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Let them cry. They are early adopters. Thats a risk with buying new stuff right off the bat. If a company has to slash their entire line ups pricing to compete they will do so. Besides I'm sure most convinced themselves Kepler wouldn't be here till Summer at the earliest and be everything what Fermi was. Not what the GK104 turned out to be.
 
I've been worried for AMD for a long time. I like AMD cpu's of old, I loved the 9700 pro, but something tells me I should be worried about AMD's future. I don't know why. The 7970 is certainly a great card, and AMD Fusion APU's and the like, but they just seem like they're holding on by a hair nowadays.
 
TroyX said:
I dont think AMD can lower the prices right now because people who bought 7970's and 7950's are going to yell "i got robbed" and "we want our money back"

i know i would, glad i waited.
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I think AMD is near to release the dual graphics card anyway.
So it will be a good excuse for them to lower the price of the 7970.
And nobody is going to yell.
 
Im going to be buying a EVGA GTX 680, I returned my 7950 10 days ago or so.
That being said if you really believe "LOLS NVIDIA MIDRANGE CARD BEAT AMDS FLAGSHIP" you are a retard plain and simple.

If Nvidia could have delivered the gk110 in sizable yields they would have. Stop drinking the kool-aid and try not to get wrapped up in each companies branding schemes.
 
^^^ Dude, the 680 trades blows and then some and is unaniumous on fastest single card as of now, this is on a mid range part going against a high end part. Not good for AMD.
 
ShuttleLuv said:
^^^ Dude, the 680 trades blows and then some and is unaniumous on fastest single card as of now, this is on a mid range part going against a high end part. Not good for AMD.
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Nvidia's fastest available card is slighlty faster than AMD's. That is it plain and simple calling the GTX 680 a mid range card when the gk110 is months away is a joke. Grow up.
 
Bash said:
Nvidia's fastest available card is slighlty faster than AMD's. That is it plain and simple calling the GTX 680 a mid range card when the gk110 is months away is a joke. Grow up.
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Personal attack? WTF? I'm just going by what most mainstream computer websites have stated. It's usually classified as a mid range part because GK110 isn't there yet.

Sometimes, when a new graphics card launches, we really have to put some effort into figuring out whether the performance and features justify the price. It’s not a science, and the right answer isn’t always crystal clear.

This is not one of those times.

GeForce GTX 680 is now the fastest single-GPU graphics card, and not by a margin that leaves room to hem or haw. Making matters worse for AMD, the GTX 680 is priced right between its Radeon HD 7970 and 7950. Providing that Nvidia’s launch price sticks, both Radeon HD 7900s need to be significantly less expensive in order to compete. I'd expect to see the 7970 drop $100. The 7950 would have to slide $50 to leave some room between the 7870 and 7970.
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I have had more Nvidia card's than AMD in the past. Nvidia has the fastest,coolest and most reasonably priced card on the market. To keep bragging about how they are branding there tech is getting old. GK110 is nowhere near ready and when it is they will most likely brand it with 7xx series. You have to just accept the fact that this is the high end part for the 6xx series.
 
ShuttleLuv said:
Personal attack? WTF? I'm just going by what most mainstream computer websites have stated. It's usually classified as a mid range part because GK110 isn't there yet.
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LOL, stop with the BS. Are you really trying to claim GTX 680 (clue is in the name... and the price) is only a maintream card becuase Nvidia is planning to release an even faster card in the future?

By your logic all current GPU are lowend parts because in 5 years time AMD and Nvidia will release even faster GPUs. :rolleyes:
 
Bash said:
I have had more Nvidia card's than AMD in the past. Nvidia has the fastest,coolest and most reasonably priced card on the market. To keep bragging about how they are branding there tech is getting old. GK110 is nowhere near ready and when it is they will most likely brand it with 7xx series. You have to just accept the fact that this is the high end part for the 6xx series.
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Do you work for Nvidia? How do you know it's 'nowhere ready'? :rolleyes:
 
I think its to soon to talk about this.
Lets not forget that AMD released their cards first.
They might have something to fix this hole situation.
They can just simply tweak some new cards and leave the 7970 and 7950 at a different price point.
 
ICDP said:
LOL, stop with the BS. Are you really trying to claim GTX 680 (clue is in the name... and the price) is only a maintream card becuase Nvidia is planning to release an even faster card in the future?

By your logic all current GPU are lowend parts because in 5 years time AMD and Nvidia will release even faster GPUs. :rolleyes:
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I didn't say mainstream part, I said mainstream website. The card has been branded more than once as a mid range offering. Personally I think it's definitely mid to high end.
 
ShuttleLuv said:
Do you work for Nvidia? How do you know it's 'nowhere ready'? :rolleyes:
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The same place that told you the gk104 aka GTX 680 was the mid range part.

Well the gk104 is branded the GTX 680 what do you think they will call the GK110 the GTX680SUPERFASTVERSIONWITHDIFFTECH
 
ShuttleLuv said:
I didn't say mainstream part, I said mainstream website. The card has been branded more than once as a mid range offering. Personally I think it's definitely mid to high end.
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Stop splitting hairs, you said mid range... mid range is the mainstream. Your trying this oooh, a mid range GPU beating a high end GPU BS. Nvidia priced it as highend and called it high end, even HardOCP have said it is Nvidia's "flagship".

For the record, it is a great card at a great price, IMHO Nvidia just bitch slapped AMD silly in how they priced and placed the GTX 680. I mean it is only marginally faster and yet the perception is that it is cheaper and faster, massive PR win for Nvidia.
 
Personal attack? WTF? I'm just going by what most mainstream computer websites have stated. It's usually classified as a mid range part because GK110 isn't there yet.
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No, I said mainstream computer websites. :)
 
I got a feeling GK110 is going to be a much more compute oriented card like the 480/580 GTX. If 680 GTX has told us anything it that designing a single card for compute and gaming is not necessarily a good idea. I think nVida could have done the same thing last year with the 460 Ti. Most people were able to get significant overclocks on those cards and when overclocked they surpassed the 480 GTX. So nVidia, probably seeing the implications of having their mid range card outperform their highend card, clocked it very conservatively.

So although GK104 was supposed to be nVidia's midrange, you can't automatically assume that GK110 even if it is significantly larger, will be a significantly better gaming card. It may have a huge advantage in terms of GPGPU applications, but only a minor one for gaming.

With 7970 AMD made the same mistake as nVidia last year with the 480 GTX, trying to make a single card for both compute and gaming. I would like to see nVidia abandon compute applications entirely in their high end gaming cards. If nVidia can do this much with the 680 GTX on this transistor budget, imagine what they could do if they designed a card exclusively for gaming with the GK110 transistor budget. Sadly I don't think this will be the case though, as I don't see nVidia abandoning the GPGPU market and GK104 is obviously not the card aimed at that market.
 
Particleman said:
I got a feeling GK110 is going to be a much more compute oriented card like the 480/580 GTX. If 680 GTX has told us anything it that designing a single card for compute and gaming is not necessarily a good idea. I think nVida could have done the same thing last year with the 460 Ti. Most people were able to get significant overclocks on those cards and when overclocked they surpassed the 480 GTX. So nVidia, probably seeing the implications of having their mid range card outperform their highend card, clocked it very conservatively.

So although GK104 was supposed to be nVidia's midrange, you can't automatically assume that GK110 even if it is significantly larger, will be a significantly better gaming card. It may have a huge advantage in terms of GPGPU applications, but only a minor one for gaming.

With 7970 AMD made the same mistake as nVidia last year with the 480 GTX, trying to make a single card for both compute and gaming. I would like to see nVidia abandon compute applications entirely in their high end gaming cards. If nVidia can do this much with the 680 GTX on this transistor budget, imagine what they could do if they designed a card exclusively for gaming with the GK110 transistor budget. Sadly I don't think this will be the case though, as I don't see nVidia abandoning the GPGPU market and GK104 is obviously not the card aimed at that market.
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Agreed.
 
Nvidias stock price is half of what it was just a year ago, they've been on a long downward swing, AMD is a much more stable company from a financial standpoint, thats been on a steady upswing, AMD has been a hold while Nvidia has been a sell. That dosen't change the fact that the 680 is a game changer
 
7870's are still more power efficient for the performance they provide and those are the cards that most people will buy. Not too many people spend 500 on gpu's. I work retail and I would say about 10% of the people buy top end gpu's. Most people don't even wanna spend 300.
 
limperatlinks said:
Nvidias stock price is half of what it was just a year ago, they've been on a long downward swing, AMD is a much more stable company from a financial standpoint, thats been on a steady upswing, AMD has been a hold while Nvidia has been a sell. That dosen't change the fact that the 680 is a game changer
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Nvidia is not going anywhere, period. If any company would go down or need major restructuring, it would be AMD.
 
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