Anyone agree that HDR is overhyped garbage?

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by Newsboys2004, Apr 24, 2006.

  1. Newsboys2004

    Newsboys2004 Gawd

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    my friend was saying that HDR was so much better than real time shadowing, and I couldn't tell because I didn't have a video card that could do HDR...

    I now do, and OMG! HDR underwelms :-\. I was way more impressed when I first got Doom 3.

    Anyone else feel the same way?
     
  2. Zinn

    Zinn Guest

    Garbage? I'm not sure about that. I definitely agree that HDR is overhyped, but that's because it was shiny and new six months ago. When done conservatively, it makes for a nice effect. (think Oblivion) I'm not sure why you're so bitter :confused:
     
  3. eeyrjmr

    eeyrjmr [H]ardness Supreme

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    over-hyped most definitly!!!

    When I got Doom3/HL2 I turned the GFX all the way up and went "ooo" for abt 5min. I then just turned them down - I was after a good game not a art-gallery

    What are you more interested in the way the light bounces off a certain bit of the wall or the big ugly monster that is about to separate your head from your body? if it is the former then go into art :rolleyes:

    HDR is only of use if you play games on a 42" Plasma where the lines start to be an issue.
     
  4. MH Knights

    MH Knights Gawd

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    Doom 3 had HDR :confused: I know HL2 only had HDR in the Lost Coast demo and a fan made patch (though it wasn't true HDR).

    If done properly HDR can add to the imersion and realism factor because you will now have to take light into consideration when fighting. However many devs are just slapping some half-assed version of HDR into their games just so they can say their game has it. This is the same for any new technology.
     
  5. Cadaver

    Cadaver Limp Gawd

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    HDR looks beautiful in Oblivion.
     
  6. Netrat33

    Netrat33 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Doom3 does NOT have HDR
     
  7. wtburnette

    wtburnette 2[H]4U

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    Depends on the game and how well it's implemented. It looks great in Oblivion, as people have posted. I turned it off and 5 minutes later turned it right back on... ;)
     
  8. Newsboys2004

    Newsboys2004 Gawd

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    I must have the 'wrong version' of oblivion, because I turned it on and I'm not too impressed...
     
  9. ryuen

    ryuen Limp Gawd

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    HDR can do a lot for the athmosphere & realism of a gameworld if indeed it's implemented properly, I quite like it in Oblivion myself.
    For some reason a lot of companies go overboard with the effect and then it does have a negative impact on the games, whereas a subtle implementation would have been a whole lot better.
     
  10. cyks

    cyks [H]ard|Gawd

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    HDR made my sword *really* bright, almost blurry, and i see it in other screen shots so i know it isn't just my rig (oblivion). The atmosphere looks a bit better, but it also adds a sort of fog that covers up distant views. Maybe you do need a massive monitor to enjoy it.

    Some other member made a comment about it, along the lines of: "Stares at white screen because player walked out of a shadow."
     
  11. tskiller

    tskiller [H]ard|Gawd

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    memememe! It dosnt even look good! Definatly marketing crap.
     
  12. ThirtySixBelow

    ThirtySixBelow Gawd

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    The implementation of HDR in oblivion is not the same as Lost Coast. The lighting doesn't change intensity much, if at all when going from bright to dark. In lost coast this was a big thing. Also, it crapped hard on my computer in LC and doesn't do so bad in oblivion. After going back and walking through the churches and seeing the lighting through the stained glass, and walking outside and being blinded for a second, i'm going to say HL2 is a more true HDR than oblivion. Oblivion is just extra bright, closer to bloom lighting.
     
  13. Mistrblank

    Mistrblank Limp Gawd

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    I was playing around with settings yesterday and I noticed the lack of AA far more than I noticed any effect from HDR while playing Oblivion. The other oddity is that Fraps was reporting consistently, regardless of my resolution, AA, or HDR getting 20 frames per second tops in game. I don't think it was fraps because the game played as smoothly and similarly as it would go in all settings. Am I missing something?
     
  14. Scoobydo

    Scoobydo Limp Gawd

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    Overhyped = Yes
    Garbage = No

    It causes the bright lights to bleed into the colors around it. If you pay attention in real life, bright light will do the same thing with your eyeballs.

    Its more realistic, and thats the path we need to go down.
     
  15. beanman101283

    beanman101283 2[H]4U

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    It's kinda like when colored lighting first came out. Everyone slapped it in with varying degrees of success. So in a year or less, we'll start seeing games where it's more natural and the developers had more time to implement it properly.
     
  16. arman01

    arman01 Gawd

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    imo, HDR is as big as a jump as pixel shaders when they first came out..
     
  17. Majin

    Majin 2[H]4U

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    I started playing Oblivion with Bloom and AA, but at 1680 X 1050 AA isn't a big deal so I started to play it with HDR instead and OMG... The game looks so much nicer.

    Every game I have tryed so far with HDR on looks better.

    HDR FTW
     
  18. Voltron

    Voltron Limp Gawd

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    Another example of how Hype can kill, well atleast dissapoint.
     
  19. Cabezone

    Cabezone Gawd

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    HDR looks terrible indoors in Oblivion. I like the way it looks outside, but it looks so terrible inside I can't use it.
     
  20. spine

    spine 2[H]4U

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    You have to realise that there is no such thing as a standard for HDR. HDR is NOT a properly defined thing like Anti-aliasing etc.

    High Dynamic Range is all about simulating on a computer monitor the extremely high range of brightnesses and darknesses you get in the real world. You take it for granted in the real world because your eyes 'automatically' adjust for this high dynamic range and you 'see' a more flat image than is really there. It's the reason why you can look across a field towards the sun and it seems fine, but if you try to take a photo of that same scene, the camera just can't handle it and you get lens flares and washing out.

    Different game developers use different techniques to simulate this effect, some are better than others, but usually at a performance cost.
     
  21. stelleg151

    stelleg151 Limp Gawd

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    I concur. I also think it looks good enough in these early releases to be adopted by most games in the future.
     
  22. Rock&Roll

    Rock&Roll [H]ard|Gawd

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    ditto to the above. All of this new tech takes a bit of refining before it really lives up to it's potential.

    By the time HDR is finally perfected, we'll be talking about some other crazy new graphics feature that I havn't heard of yet.
     
  23. Dan_D

    Dan_D [H]ard as it Gets

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    I think HDR lighting is much more realistic and certainly better than older methods. The biggest problem is that HDR's bloom effects are usually unrealistic and far too bright. It often washes out the details of the scene. There are some spots in Far Cry that are excellent examples of this.

    It's been done the best so far in Oblivion. I've not been blinded by it and the lighting effects have been spectacular overall.
     
  24. Corporal79

    Corporal79 Gawd

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    I'm not a fan of it really, I recently started playing CS: Source and I noticed Dust now has it. I now play Dust 2 instead mostly (and office) cause I don't like it that much. (yes I know I can turn it off)
     
  25. btf1980

    btf1980 Limp Gawd

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    I think HDR was overdone in PGR3. There were times when driving from a tunnel in total darkness and exiting the tunnel and getting hit by the sun was jarring. Really distracting.
     
  26. rcf1987

    rcf1987 2[H]4U

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    The 360 version has bueatiful HDR+AA and its used perfectly
     
  27. rcf1987

    rcf1987 2[H]4U

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    Thats the whole point of HDR
     
  28. DamienThorn

    DamienThorn [H]ard|Gawd

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    I think that HDR is something that developers and programmers need to screw around with before it is implemented perfectly. That said, it adds a lot to some games, with the most recent Splinter Cell game being a good example for how it can be used without overwhelming everything else in the game.

    [​IMG]
     
  29. PKFGimpy

    PKFGimpy Limp Gawd

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    I'm not 100% sure about this, but I think HDR provides more than just an effect that simulates the way our eye balls work.

    Can someone correct me if I'm entirely off base here?

    HDR provides a means of maximizing the contrast ratio available to render a scene. More color information is stored in the scene that your display is capable of displaying. Based on the brightness of the scene, HDR adapts according to the maximum and minimum brightnesses that your display is capable of showing maximizing the available color palette that it can draw the screen with.

    Take for instance a dark scene without HDR. Say the maxium brightness of a scene is 128, but your display can do a brightness of up to 256. Basically your now limiting the color palette available to render the screen by about half of what its capable of and reducing the contrast ratio of the scene by about half.

    If you have HDR enabled, it "adapts" itself to utilize the entire available contrast of your display, meaning you double the available color palette available for rendering the scene and it will look that much better. This is where that "hidden" color information comes into play.

    This is why games that use HDR seem to have much more vibrant colors even when moving from dark rooms to brightly outdoor areas.
     
  30. Litfod

    Litfod [H]ard|Gawd

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    Exactly! hdr is necessary to accurately simulate real world lighting, especially on reflective surfaces like water and glass, but don't confuse "hdr" with the blooms, animated camera aperture and other post-processing effects that Lost Coast etc have. It's the bloom and other effects that often look rubbish and that's a design flaw, not a the fault of hdr itself.
    I'd expect/hope that hdr lighting will eventually become the standard, and hopefully games companies will figure out how to use it without making games that look like some sort of glowy, blurry dream sequence.
     
  31. Litfod

    Litfod [H]ard|Gawd

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    That's pretty much it, not so much "adapting" as simply allowing for a greater range of intensities. Rather than using a small range of intensities (like 0-255 or whatever) and forcing all lights above a certain, limited brightness to have the same value (desk lamp, sunlight, whatever), using a floating point format you can still distinguish between "very bright" and "even brighter" (or similarly "very dark" and "even darker"). It's mostly important when you start to calculate the light reflected off surfaces (it's especially obvious on things like glass and water); if your light values are clamped within a small range the reflections will looked clipped and dull. As I said above, extra things like blooms are added afterwards, and having the higher range available after doing the lighting means you can then adjust the virtual camera aperture to adapt to the scene in the way our eyes do naturally (although it looks a bit weird in some games).
     
  32. ryuen

    ryuen Limp Gawd

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    I think HDR was overdone in Spain. There were times when driving from a tunnel in total darkness and exiting the tunnel and getting hit by the sun was totally blinding. Really bloody dangerous.

    You can laugh, but I experienced that several times on holliday a few years ago...
     
  33. U HAX0R

    U HAX0R Gawd

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    I don't like it either and always disable it. Bloom too.

    Sometimes it makes the game look worst ... like in NFS:MW ... whatever the name they give to the light effect ... it looks terrible and the game, especially the cars look like toys ...
     
  34. Trimlock

    Trimlock [H]ardForum Junkie

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    thats pretty much the entire idea behind HDR techniques, games have been stagnating on color for so long now, getting used to the same reds, same yellows, same blues etc. then HDR comes along and holy god its a plethera(sp?) of new colors, seriously i was never awed by it as much as farcry with HDR enabled during a night map, that was seriously some astounding stuff they pulled off

    HDR is definetly not garbage, don't like it? turn it off
     
  35. sculelos

    sculelos [H]ardness Supreme

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    I personally like HDR, if you don't like it I suggest you turn it off, but I would personally play with HDR over AA any day.
     
  36. Mabrito

    Mabrito [H]ardness Supreme

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    HDR is a good technique and if done properly it will add a great deal to the atmosphere and lighting. But I have yet to see a game that done it really good. Oblivion is the best to date but even in some areas it just way to bright. FarCry also done a good job at it, but there were still some areas where it just looked like shit. But once a game comes out where the HDR is done right and adjusted properly, it will look really nice.

    I bet its probably hard to implement it and im not trying to sound mean. I bet its probably hard to get the right angles and all. But once developers do get it to perfection, that will be the day when I turn it back on!!
     
  37. SuperFarStucker

    SuperFarStucker n00b

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    Real time lighting is incredibly primitive, even with the inclusion of HDR, compared to reality. Calling it high dynamic range is like calling the blow up doll 'realistic' after being intimately acquainted with a hand. Display technology isn't even capable of reproducing a realistic image in terms of contrast. Real time 3d lighting was in a very pathetic state before HDR, but it is only slightly less so now.

    The road ahead in the quest for realistic real time rendering is a long one and the first decent approximations will likely be built off this hackish system of 'fast' approximations in place now, but it will have to abandoned entirely if there is hope for the manifestation of this idea. Hardware, is what holding us back in this regard, and barring a revolutionary discovery at hardware thinktanks it will be a long long time before there is sufficient capacity to do realistic real time scenes. Developers only complain about the pace of hardware development because they are necessarily dragged through all the intervening steps.

    Calling HDR more realistic is like calling a bidet revolutionary toilet technology.
     
  38. cyks

    cyks [H]ard|Gawd

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    No way in hell am I going to start that again
     
  39. Shadowspawn

    Shadowspawn [H]ard|Gawd

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    I just completed building my new mATX SLI system with a 7900gt, so the first map I loaded was the Lost Coast. Once I turned on AA and fiddled with a few other settings I fell in love. That is a truely beautiful level and the HDR makes everything look incredible. Is it hyped? Sure, but if done correctly, its worth it.
     
  40. JRPereira

    JRPereira Limp Gawd

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    My main problem with HDR is that it's overdone - just like when they first added dynamic lighting in games like quake 2.

    There are some FANTASTIC examples of renders done with true well-done HDR. I know some guy had done some half-life 2 models with HDR lighting that looked true-to-life even when they were just creatively rendered onto photos.

    I haven't seen any good examples in games though, although I will say lost coast did pretty well. Shame that the level was confusing and terribly buggy.


    One thing that oblivion did right was great specular lighting effects. Shiny weapons and glass armor simply look gorgeous, and the HDR really accentuates that. It sucks that they didn't go a little more heavy with the exposure controls and went way overboard with bloom effects.


    [edit] found the guy's deviantart gallery with great examples:

    http://pogon.deviantart.com/gallery/?type=browse&offset=24

    http://www.deviantart.com/view/24681075/
    http://www.deviantart.com/view/25722513/
    http://www.deviantart.com/view/19704937/
    http://www.deviantart.com/view/19773714/
    http://www.deviantart.com/view/19574673/

    He does use a ton of other lighting effects, but at least you can see good hdr in action, along with some other kickass effects that hopefully are coming to realtime rendering in the future.