Any Xbox owners considering switch with next gen?

sharknice said:
You're only fooling yourself.
The only people that think Playstation controllers are comfortable are Playstation fanboys.
The joysticks were just slapped on a PS1 controller. They aren't comfortable to use at all. If they feel comfortable to you it is only because you've deformed your hands through countless years of using the abominations.
Click to expand...

Dumb post is dumb.

The PS controllers feel fine and ARE comfortable. Just because they aren't comfortable for you doesn't mean it is the case for everyone.

kkthxbye.
 
sharknice said:
You're only fooling yourself.
The only people that think Playstation controllers are comfortable are Playstation fanboys.
The joysticks were just slapped on a PS1 controller. They aren't comfortable to use at all. If they feel comfortable to you it is only because you've deformed your hands through countless years of using the abominations.
Click to expand...

Xbox left anolog stick and dpad are in the wrong places. No need to change the PS controller it's... perfect. ;)
 
I like the ergonomics of the DS3 but there is room for improvement with the sticks.

Luckily they are improving them for DS4 and they are majorly upgrading the motion sensors and rumble motors.

I wonder if Durango will be stuck without Logitech wheel support again ?
 
as a 360 owner, i'll wait until something is officially announced. rumors about gpus don't matter. sony laid out their hardware and MS has had months to adjust their specs. I imagine both systems will perform very closely.

i'm curious how MS will handle the "second screen" that is being marketed by wii u, ps4, nvidia. It would be interesting if they expanded their SmartGlass to allow streaming of game video. Imagine viewing the game video on any device w/ the smartglass app that is connected on the same LAN. Extend the range of the wireless controllers and support streaming of multiple games(probably xbla)/video simultaneously and the xbox could be a true home media center that MS has wanted.

If MS requires a constant internet connection then the system had better be cheaper than the ps4 at launch. I'm not penny pinching but a lot of people have to and the idea of paying more in the long run will likely turn some buyers to the ps4.

and like some people have said, once the next gens are released i'll likely pick up a used ps3 for their exclusives before i purchase a new console. unless the 360 does something amazing.
 
mycomputersucks said:
as a 360 owner, i'll wait until something is officially announced. rumors about gpus don't matter. sony laid out their hardware and MS has had months to adjust their specs. I imagine both systems will perform very closely.
Click to expand...

It doesn't work that way. These consoles take years to design and both PS4 and Durango will go into production in a manner of months. It's impossible for MS to react to the PS4 announcement and bump up the GPU specs without a massive delay to their launch.

MS hasn't officially announced Durango or its specs, but the dev kits are in the hands of hundreds of developers. Durango's graphics specs has been confirmed to be only 1.2TF by credible sites like Digital Foundry with multiple independent sources all saying the same thing.

There will be a larger difference in graphics power between PS4 and Durango than between PS3 and X360.

MS can try and outcompete Sony with services, voice recognition/motion control stuff and exclusive games, but as far as outright hardware performance like the APU's graphics specs and memory bandwidth, they targetted lower specs and that's that. It's too late to do anything.
 
Stereophile said:
It doesn't work that way. These consoles take years to design and both PS4 and Durango will go into production in a manner of months. It's impossible for MS to react to the PS4 announcement and bump up the GPU specs without a massive delay to their launch.

MS hasn't officially announced Durango or its specs, but the dev kits are in the hands of hundreds of developers. Durango's graphics specs has been confirmed to be only 1.2TF by credible sites like Digital Foundry with multiple independent sources all saying the same thing.

There will be a larger difference in graphics power between PS4 and Durango than between PS3 and X360.

MS can try and outcompete Sony with services, voice recognition/motion control stuff and exclusive games, but as far as outright hardware performance like the APU's graphics specs and memory bandwidth, they targetted lower specs and that's that. It's too late to do anything.
Click to expand...

And, it'll be costly for both Microsoft and developers for Microsoft to switch the hardware this late before its eventual release towards Q3 or Q4 2013.

What many don't realize, these consoles-- PS4 and 720-- were in the proposal stages not too long after the PS3's and 360's release. It would explain the leaked 2007/2008 Powerpoint slide from last year for the proposed Xbox 720 specs. I would not be surprised hardware was finalized sometime early last year, with hardware agreements before then.

I would not be surprised the economic downturn in 2007 made Microsoft realize that they cannot go dual hardware in the 720 like the first PS3 to have hardware backwards compatibility. The economy and the market wouldn't support it. It would explain Microsoft going the dual model route-- if people wanted backwards compatibility, they'll buy the Mini. If people just want a standalone game console or media center device, they'll buy either but not both.
 
Last edited:
Yeah it's amazing how accurate that leaked power point presentation turned out to be.
 
Stereophile said:
Yeah it's amazing how accurate that leaked power point presentation turned out to be.
Click to expand...

Yeah.

The rumors went from a dual hardware unit with Xbox 360 internals (Xbox 360's XCGPU) and Xbox 720 internals (AMD APU and 8GB of RAM) to...

... two versions of the next Xbox console-- a low end discless model and a high-end, more powerful console model-- to...

... two different kinds of units-- a discless media center unit like the Apple TV called the Xbox Mini and a standalone console, Xbox 720/NEXT.

And, that's where the rumors are at this point in time:
 
Stereophile said:
It doesn't work that way. These consoles take years to design and both PS4 and Durango will go into production in a manner of months. It's impossible for MS to react to the PS4 announcement and bump up the GPU specs without a massive delay to their launch.

MS hasn't officially announced Durango or its specs, but the dev kits are in the hands of hundreds of developers. Durango's graphics specs has been confirmed to be only 1.2TF by credible sites like Digital Foundry with multiple independent sources all saying the same thing.

There will be a larger difference in graphics power between PS4 and Durango than between PS3 and X360.

MS can try and outcompete Sony with services, voice recognition/motion control stuff and exclusive games, but as far as outright hardware performance like the APU's graphics specs and memory bandwidth, they targetted lower specs and that's that. It's too late to do anything.
Click to expand...

They designed PS3 to originally use CELL for everything including graphics, then at the last second they realized CELL sucked and slapped in a real GPU. It hurt them but PS4 still ended up with okay hardware.
Microsoft will not have any problems upgrading to a faster CPU or GPU for Durango. They will not have to change their architecture or do anything drastic so it won't affect developers negatively at all. If they want to beat PS4 in graphics capabilities it is only a matter of cost.
 
Sony announced they had been collaborating with Nvidia on a GPU for the next playstation in 2004. 2 years before it released. It's not even close to the same thing as suggesting MS can make an adjustment after the PS4 reveal and still have a new improved console on the shelves in time for Christmas.

They won't have to change their architecture ? I don't think so. PS4 has 18 compute units, Durango has 12. The thermal and power requirements are carefully planned. Even if they went to AMD and said here's a billion dollars, we want 6 more CU's in our APU to match PS4, it would be impossible without totally scrapping the current design and creating a new one.

The best case scenario is overclocking their current 12 cu APU past the originally planned speed. But that would come with reduced yields and lower reliability since the cooling and power was designed for the original clock speed. Even if they did that, you're looking at like a 10% improvement at best. Not really worth the extra headache.

People just assumed the leaked MS power point calling for a modest performance increase and major investment in DVR, Kinnect 2, and non-gaming apps was fake because MS is so rich and they would have to meet or beat PS4's graphics. But obviously they went in a different direction. They saw how well Wii sold despite pathetic hw and decided they didn't need to have as powerful system has Sony. The team behind Durango is not the same people that brought Xbox and Xbox 360 to market.

Bottom line is MS is stuck with what they have.
 
I'll consider it after seeing what MS puts out at their unveiling. All they really have to do is pretty much match or even be 85% as powerful as the ps4. If they lift their ridiculous fees for patching games for developers and lower/eliminate xbox live gold pricing then it would put it over the top imo.
 
The only thing I know right now is that I'm not buying either system at launch, and that I'm not buying a Microsoft product that blocks used games and requires an always on internet connection.

I can spend the next year going through the PS3 and X360 back catalog, along with my steam library, and damn near forget that a new console launch is coming up. I'm not even sure what games MS could announce right now that would make me bat an eye.

We've had Halo, Gears and Dead Space updates very recently. I'm worn out on Call of Duty, and unless there is a new Crackdown up somebody's sleeve, I don't have much to get crazy about.

Not crazy about all my XBLA games not transferring over, if that turns out to be true. Or about any of the other rumors (read: truths) revealed by inside sources with dev kits over the last few months
 
Kahnvex said:
Not crazy about all my XBLA games not transferring over, if that turns out to be true. Or about any of the other rumors (read: truths) revealed by inside sources with dev kits over the last few months
Click to expand...

Unless developers are willing to convert, re-program, and/or re-compile XBLA games to an x86 architecture from a PowerPC architecture, I don't think they're going to transfer over to the new XBLA on the 720.

And, if they did, you'd probably have to buy them all over again, which wouldn't surprise me.

I'd like a Steam model instead because if you bought a game in Windows, it is freely available in Linux to download and install.
 
I am 100% switching. I've lost interest in the very few exclusives microsoft does offer. I'm excited to start experiencing all the sony franchises I've been missing out on for so long.
 
I would actually prefer to own an XBOX and support an American company over a foreign one, but I definitely do not like how MS is going.

I refuse to pay to play online. That is simply retarded and I can't believe MS has been getting away with XBL when Sony hands it out for free. All that 'polish' people talk about pretty much just amounts to achievements and other stupid crap. It's really dumb, talk about getting milked.

And second, the online requirements that MS seems to be pushing. Sony could be going there, too, but it remains to be seen.

Thirdly, this may not be relevant to many, but I preferred the rechargable lithium-ion batteries... or are they NiCad? Either way, it's a superior design over the ones in the XBOX controllers. It's just another expense on top of the added weight. Everything MS seems to do is cut corners everywhere they can.
 
PSN store is catching up. They just added the ability to download automatically to your console when you purchase something in the web store. I admit PSN is not as polished as Live but it has many positives and at least is a gaming portal unlike Live which is basically an ad platform to push more content.
 
Always On DRM being up to the publishers? That just means a good 90 percent of them will enforce it since it kills of used games (which they've wanted for ages).

MS is taking the wrong step off the deep end. As long as Sony hasn't tried to slip a fast one by us , I'll be getting a PS4. Sony is making many better choices this time around while it seems MS is taking over Sony's "how to fuck up" crown.

I think May 21st is going to make a lot of 360 owners very unhappy with future prospects of staying an Xbox gamer.
 
TheFlosser said:
I refuse to pay to play online. That is simply retarded and I can't believe MS has been getting away with XBL when Sony hands it out for free. All that 'polish' people talk about pretty much just amounts to achievements and other stupid crap. It's really dumb, talk about getting milked.
Click to expand...
Console games are all P2P, aren't they? If so, you're paying just for the privilege to connect to other clients. I understand that they probably use their own servers for some of the work like matchmaking but the majority of the work is handled by the clients.

I think they use the Live subscription fee to subsidize the whole television media content thing they have going with the dashboard; from their perspective, the online gaming thing is just there to get people pay for Gold.
 
djoye said:
Console games are all P2P, aren't they? If so, you're paying just for the privilege to connect to other clients.
Click to expand...

Depends on the game and/or developer. For example, I believe EA has their own dedicated servers. Also, although not quite as good, Ubisoft lets you run an Xbox 360 as a dedicated server for games like Rainbow Six Vegas. So it depends.
 
Going by what I've been seeing on other gaming sites, MS is grabbing up sites referencing 'Xbox Fusion'. I'll put money on them calling it 'Xbox Fusion' because they want to fuse gaming and television together to make the Xbox a cluster F of subscription-based television, social media, and gaming services.
 
Jerome36 said:
Depends on the game and/or developer. For example, I believe EA has their own dedicated servers. Also, although not quite as good, Ubisoft lets you run an Xbox 360 as a dedicated server for games like Rainbow Six Vegas. So it depends.
Click to expand...

Yeah it depends on the game and is completely up to the developers. The vast majority of games just do p2p with one of the players taking on the host role. Gears of War 3 has dedicated servers.
 
elzeus said:
I'll consider it after seeing what MS puts out at their unveiling. All they really have to do is pretty much match or even be 85% as powerful as the ps4. If they lift their ridiculous fees for patching games for developers and lower/eliminate xbox live gold pricing then it would put it over the top imo.
Click to expand...

At best it will be 66% as powerful. I wouldn't doubt 50% if you factor in the tricky, low bandwidth memory. Probably depend on the game. Things will really be stacked if on top of a sizeable hw disadvantage, MS goes whole hog and reserves 3GB for windoze 8.
 
Last edited:
sharknice said:
Yeah it depends on the game and is completely up to the developers. The vast majority of games just do p2p with one of the players taking on the host role. Gears of War 3 has dedicated servers.
Click to expand...

I think it uses a combo of both, dedicated gets picked first. If no dedicated available, they use p2p. While i havent played GoW 3, i sure wish microsoft will do it for halo. I really dont understand why they cant give you the option of running your own server if you want too.
 
There are rumors Durango games are behind schedule. It will probably have a weak launch lineup.
 
Stereophile said:
Sony announced they had been collaborating with Nvidia on a GPU for the next playstation in 2004. 2 years before it released. It's not even close to the same thing as suggesting MS can make an adjustment after the PS4 reveal and still have a new improved console on the shelves in time for Christmas.

They won't have to change their architecture ? I don't think so. PS4 has 18 compute units, Durango has 12. The thermal and power requirements are carefully planned. Even if they went to AMD and said here's a billion dollars, we want 6 more CU's in our APU to match PS4, it would be impossible without totally scrapping the current design and creating a new one.

The best case scenario is overclocking their current 12 cu APU past the originally planned speed. But that would come with reduced yields and lower reliability since the cooling and power was designed for the original clock speed. Even if they did that, you're looking at like a 10% improvement at best. Not really worth the extra headache.

People just assumed the leaked MS power point calling for a modest performance increase and major investment in DVR, Kinnect 2, and non-gaming apps was fake because MS is so rich and they would have to meet or beat PS4's graphics. But obviously they went in a different direction. They saw how well Wii sold despite pathetic hw and decided they didn't need to have as powerful system has Sony. The team behind Durango is not the same people that brought Xbox and Xbox 360 to market.

Bottom line is MS is stuck with what they have.
Click to expand...

How much is Sony paying you? Honestly Clock rate adjustment is not a big deal now a days
 
I have all 3 7th-gen consoles and I have no commitment to anything in the 8th-gen at this time. The WII U is underwhelming at this point, but that could just be my perception. Until we get the PS4 and the next Xbox, it's hard to get a feel either way.

I'm platform indifferent. I've enjoyed the Resistance series on PS3, but I've also more recently enjoyed Halo 4 and would like to see how the Reclaimer trilogy turns out (ie Halo 5 & 6---presumably). Without the games all laid out, it's hard to say.

Additionally, by the time I do buy, I may be factoring in what grabs my kids.

For me, it's wait and see.
 
I've loved my 360. It's made gaming with friends a lot easier than back in the day. That said I've started playing a lot more PC games over the last year. With how much PC gaming has come along in terms of ease of use since the 360 launched I'm not feeling any need to get a next gen console. The NextBox at 500 seems ridiculous unless it brings something big to the table and the PS4 is still a big unknown in my opinion. I'm 90% sure I won't be getting a next-gen this year and would bet I won't get a next-gen at all. Anymore, I don't see the reason to get a console over a gaming PC. I feel like it's cheaper in the long run (build something for 700 today and it will be just as powerful and the games are a lot cheaper) and offers more flexibility in both hardware and features. Definitely in a wait and see attitude towards this gen.
 
renixinq said:
I've loved my 360. It's made gaming with friends a lot easier than back in the day. That said I've started playing a lot more PC games over the last year. With how much PC gaming has come along in terms of ease of use since the 360 launched I'm not feeling any need to get a next gen console. The NextBox at 500 seems ridiculous unless it brings something big to the table and the PS4 is still a big unknown in my opinion. I'm 90% sure I won't be getting a next-gen this year and would bet I won't get a next-gen at all. Anymore, I don't see the reason to get a console over a gaming PC. I feel like it's cheaper in the long run (build something for 700 today and it will be just as powerful and the games are a lot cheaper) and offers more flexibility in both hardware and features. Definitely in a wait and see attitude towards this gen.
Click to expand...

Thats not bad advice to a degree, fortunately with current gen, they stopped pushing the pc envelope due to a long console cycle. Technically i paid 399 for xbox, and it would be hard pressed for a pc of that time frame to still play current games decently. Seems like at one time, to get the best fun for cheap from pc, you needed about 300 every other year to upgrade to alternate upgrades.
 
I like my PS3 but I'm not a big console gamer. If I pick up a console it'll be a ps4 and probably a year or 2 into its lifecycle.
 
Stereophile said:
At best it will be 66% as powerful. I wouldn't doubt 50% if you factor in the tricky, low bandwidth memory. Probably depend on the game. Things will really be stacked if on top of a sizeable hw disadvantage, MS goes whole hog and reserves 3GB for windoze 8.
Click to expand...

Microsoft has shown they can be quite efficient with the Xbox, and I'm hoping that they continue to do so. For example, unless things have changed, the 360 dashboard only has access to 32 MB of system memory. That's less than what the PS3 reserves for the XrossMediaBar. The next Xbox might have a lot of the underlying Windows 8 kernel but that will probably be it... just like Windows Phone 8.
 
I think the tables have turned. PS4 OS uses 1GB and 1 core in a BSD environment. Durango is rumored to use 2 or 3 GB and reserve 2 cores. It's apparently trying to do a lot more than PS4 besides gaming.

We'll see, I think the primary reason they chose DDR3 was to ensure it would have 8GB to allow plenty of ram for all of the extra nongaming apps they wanted to offer. When they architected it, they probably couldn't imagine Sony going with 8GB DDR5. I would hope/expect it to be better than desktop Windows 8. But it could still end up being more resource hungry compared to PS4's OS. Cell wasn't a good general purpose CPU. The 8 X86 core Jaguar fixes that. They can make a lean but fully featured OS for 1 GB. Look at Vita, I think it uses only 512MB. 2-3GB, if actually true, sounds bloated. Like Durango is a PC/ Xbox fusion.
 
Excuse me, 8 GB GDDR5. That seemed like a fantasy a few years ago, when MS would have been finalizing Durango's APU and memory architecture. I think they bought into the internet conjecture that Sony was in too bad of a position, financially, to launch a powerful console and they played it safe, thinking Wii sold well with terrible hw, if it's at least a real generational leap, it's good enough..

I'm less surprised by PS4's decently good specs than Durango's mediocre effort. It's like MS did just enough to make sure it can get ports of all the big third party games, but they just conceded the graphics to Sony.
 
Last edited:
Im not getting either console. I don't really care about any of the games and don't really enjoy the xbox 360 that I have. I've always been a pc gamer (except console RPGs). It took me way too long to realize it. Especially with the JRPG genre being basically dead.
 
Stereophile said:
Excuse me, 8 GB GDDR5. That seemed like a fantasy a few years ago, when MS would have been finalizing Durango's APU and memory architecture. I think they bought into the internet conjecture that Sony was in too bad of a position, financially, to launch a powerful console and they played it safe, thinking Wii sold well with terrible hw, if it's at least a real generational leap, it's good enough..

I'm less surprised by PS4's decently good specs than Durango's mediocre effort. It's like MS did just enough to make sure it can get ports of all the big third party games, but they just conceded the graphics to Sony.
Click to expand...

I really like the aspect of ps4 being able to record any game if im correct about that. I really enjoy saving a surprisingly good game in halo and going back and editing to capture certain parts of a clip.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top