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Discussion in 'Displays' started by mls1995, Oct 21, 2015.
I've never seen one, but curved panel seems like a gimmick to me. And why do you need a 46" monitor for? I've tried using my 42" tv as a monitor and it's just too huge, you end up moving away from the screen which results in smaller picture anyway. 24-27 seems like a sweet spot. I also doubt current gpu's can push 144fps at this res even on low to medium settings.
Kind of useless feature set. You can have an rgb-backlight panel for the price of these features.
ok another update for the benq gw2765ht.
First they have been contacted regarding the DP issue, awaiting a response, the firmware is v6.
Second the DP problem is way less annoying now, I have an app in my quick launch tray which puts the monitor on standby on demand, waking it up has no issue.
Third in regards to gaming performance after some testing I can conclude this monitor is quite a lot slower than the dell 2209wa but its only really noticeable in 30fps games. I installed steam and zestiria on my win10 rig (which has the dell in use, also the game is locked to 30fps), and moved the camera around. On the benq ghosting on the background is pretty horrific, adjusting AMA seems to have absolutely zero affect so I dont think its the g2g speed causing it, but something else. On the dell there is ghosting but its way smaller, which explains why I never seen it as an issue before, and I can understand now why some people hate 30fps and others say its acceptable as it seems different displays handle 30fps differently. For gameing I would say the benq is fine as long as you at a high framerate aka 60fps, but at 30fps judder/ghosting is noticeable although on different games it varies e.g. DA:I at 30fps its visible but nowhere near as bad as zestiria. I havent ran DA:I on my win10 box as that only has a nvidia gtx 460 in it so would really struggle.
I have some options open to me, given I own 3 widescreen monitors and my desk has 2 of them on it in front of me. I think what I am going to try is connect up the 2nd monitor to my pc (probably over vga as its other ports are used up) and see if i can use that just for zestiria, not sure if its possible to force games over a 2nd monitor. Hopefully this asus monitor is not as slow and I dont think it is as its been handling ps3 30fps games fine.
~40/50/60% blur reduction
5:3/2:1/2.4:1 increase in motion definition and path articulation
g-sync rides the fps graph +/- without screen aberrations
(And a ps3 wouldn't even get the g-sync benefit of avoiding screen abberations).
Are you going to get Benq to send you the firmware?
Both the Mstar ISP from cart100 and the
RT 809F unit from http://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...r-Tools-24-25-93-serise/112478_896531313.html or http://www.dhgate.com/store/product/mini-lcd-usb-programmer-rt809f-serial-isp/235706887.html would flash it
What firmware do you have already? It might be worth it to upgrade to V6 anyway as there may be more fixes that are undocumented.
For example, even though I'm going off on a wild tangent, on the XL2720Z monitor, V3 firmware added an "AMA low" setting. Yet it's completely undocumented, unmentioned and ONLY works if blur reduction is enabled. (by setting blur reduction on and then setting or re-setting the AMA to high afterwards, this sets it to an equivalent of "Low" (according to ghosting tests and the lagom.nl response time test: http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/response_time.php
On the previous v2 firmware, trying to set AMA to high after enabling MBR would just make the overdrive twice as intense (and very ugly); it set AMA high to a level more aggressive than Premium, and set premium to a god awful setting that would make your eyes bleed!
(On V3-V5, setting AMA to high AFTER enabling MBR sets it to "Low", and setting AMA to premium after enabling MBR sets it to "premium - 5%" (5% lower than premium, if that makes sense).
It may be hard to find since they went out of business but I picked up an Overlord Tempest x270oc off of EBAY for $300 new in box. 27", 1440p, 115hz - 120hz OC, pixel perfect, glossy screen.
Honestly I'm sure there are better monitors out there but this is the best monitor that I have owned and the price was awesome for what I got.
This monitor has no blur reduction feature I am aware off and I already have v6 firmware.
benq as of yet have not commented on the issue.
also on the lagom test switching between no ama high ama and premium ama has no visible difference, I wonder if ama is broken
That lagom test is very difficult to do.
It requires very keen eyes and you need to make sure you press "start" or whatever. Only a few squares will be flickering. They will be the squares on the FAR left and they should be at least having a shimmering pattern if you hit start. If you set AMA to off, you will see much slower flickering (since the response time is going to be slower). It's also VERY hard to do. The color of the flashing on the boxes (especially B to E) on the far left (the ones that are lettered) will flash based on how fast or slow the response time is. Red=slow, cyan is fast, basically.
The color in the middle set of boxes is used as a guide to compare two different monitors or tell you which overdrive setting has the fastest response time.
If you set AMA to off, the far left set of vertical boxes should have a red/pink tint to them around the C, D and E boxes. (I suspect the higher the refresh rate, the less obvious the tint). If you set AMA to premium, the boxes should turn a greenish/cyan flashing tint, which means the response time is faster (towards the cyan set of guide boxes on the right).
what does AMA stand for?
yes I hit start, but the ama is showing no difference.
Just now reported possible broken ama bug to benq also.
I will tell you what I see. (note is same across all 3 ama settings)
ABCDE I see flashing pink box.
FGH I see very faint flashing but hard to determine colour.
ooookay the weirdness carries on.
picture mode's user,eco, srgb. movie, low blue light, and standard all show pink flashing square.
mode's game and photo it changes to cyan.
On all of the modes I toggled AMA and it had no affect, but the picture mode selected has an affect. Also probably not a coincidence game and photo are the only 2 modes that allow dynamic contrast ratio to be toggled, all other modes its greyed out.
Can you run testUFO alien invasion fullscreen and look for INVERSE GHOSTING?
This is a much easier way to test AMA.
AMA off should show "normal" ghosting of the UFO's. (a lighter copy of the first (called a primary trail), then a secondary trail, which may not be easy to notice without blur reduction)
AMA high should show an inverse copy of the UFO, as if you were looking at a "negative" photo from old cameras.
AMA premium should show an even thicker inverse copy, possibly with some dark purple shades thrown in.
The differences should be pretty obvious there.
yeah I can see a difference. To me high and premium look the same, but when its off there is a small black mark appears at the trailing edge. Thanks.
So if I speed it up e.g. to 1440 pixel/sec I also see a trail on high but premium clears it.
At slower speeds like the lowest possible speed, I can clearly see overshooting of the premium setting at start of the square.
To me high is best setting for slow motion, but premium is best for high motion, I left on high for now. It seems the affect of what AMA fixes is very low tho so I dont think its the cause of what I am seeing in 30fps games.
AMA - Advanced Motion Accelerator
I believe Asus calls their Trace-free; both are just fancy names for their own response time acceleration technologies.
benq got back to me and are treating is as a hardware fault not firmware, they want me to RMA it.
So I'm still enjoying the BenQ but I went ahead and ordered a Dell S2716DG from Newegg today. I have Newegg Premier and I had $160 in Newegg gift cards and I don't pay tax at Newegg. So I'm going to check out the Dell and then choose between the BenQ and the Dell. If I hadn't had the gift cards I wouldn't have ordered the Dell but with free return shipping and no restock fees I really didn't have anything to lose to check it out while I still am in the return period for the BenQ.
You might want to hold off on that purchase for just a little bit. Rumor's around that the Dell will be $630 on black Friday so it's possible newegg will match that price too. If you get that monitor for $630 plus your gift cards then that's an incredible deal. It's just a 1 month wait if you can hold out that long.
Why not keep them both?
I just talked to Benq through email and one of the monitor heads told me that the VT Tweaks we had been using on the (pre-XL2730Z) Z series to reduce strobe crosstalk were due to a firmware bug that blurbusters site exploited through their own updates. It's those very same "bugs" that allow the monitor to run at 2560x1440@61hz-115hz (oddly enough 60hz doesn't work for the same reason that VT 1497-1502 doesn't work at 60hz either), and to run at 3200x1800@60hz by tricking the scaler (through the same bug) into thinking it's running at 3840x2160@30hz!
Yet the Asus VG248QE is locked tighter than a model's booty and won't accept a single VT above 1195 or ANY resolution above 1920x1080.
Plus....when you have a panel with backlight bleed like THIS (meaning: ZERO)
brightness=0 in a dark room
brightness=0 in a lit room (that smudge is an artifact from the camera exposure)
(Note the sides looked like there was minor bleed but that's because of TN color/gamma shift; small camera lens was just 3 feet away, in reality theres nothing there)
You don't want to part with this CRT 2.0 specimen until the leds or panel completely dies.
Talk about winning the panel lottery...(only minor uniformity issues, exactly what TFTcentral reported as well)
I mainly see a crappy jpg from a noisy picture.
But still I can see the backlightbleeding. But whatever; you can manipulate surroundings to make it look better or worse. Most people with bad screen settings probably will see one huge black area.
Colors and brightness to the human eye are all just relative anyway. Look through red glasses in a well-lit environment for a minute and you'll see everything too green / blue for a minute after you take them off. Or even easier; close one eye-lid for a minute; same result. Your eye sees mainly red due to red blood in your eye lid and your eyes subsequently dim the 'red channel'.
So LG 24GM77‑B is not recommended?
What about XL2420G or XL2430T?
I will buy PG279Q or new Acer when it comes out, but i want one for only competitive gaming, 24".
Money is not a problem, but the market of monitors is. As OP said there is really nothing special out there. XL27 is for me too big for 1080p :/
The LG 24GM77 is a fine monitor.
It just wasn't very popular as it was barely advertised over the Asus and the Benqs going around. I didn't even hear about that monitor until it was mentioned on a blurbusters' post. It should be seen as a competitor to the Benq XL2420Z, as it has just as many scaling options available.
its blur reduction functions very similarly to the Eizo Foris...it double strobes, although motion 240 can only be used at 100 and 120hz, while the Eizo can "theoretically" Turbo 240 strobe at 60hz but it looks like it is quadruple strobing.....(yuck).
I have an update.
I tested with a TN 120hz panel and the same affect occurs. I also noticed on my samsung tv when watching tv/movie content thats 25fps the same affect occurs, odd how I suddenly start noticing it
So it seems this benq is fine, as it happens on other displays also, I think the reason I am noticing it more now is because I have a bigger screen. 27inch vs 22inch.
So my Dell S2716DG showed up today. No dead pixels or dust/dirt. Now I have to decide, keep the pixel perfect BenQ or the pixel perfect Dell Dell S2716DG. On one hand, it's nice to have G sync but on the other the BenQ impressed me. The only thing I notice on the Dell is that the TN viewing angles seem worse than the BenQ. The Dell definitely seems darker on the edges. I wasn't really noticing that on the BenQ. I'll have to decide which to keep in the next 48 hours.
can you take a macro of a solid white screen on the dell? i'm really interested to see if its coating is any less ridiculous than the PG278Q.
This should work. Monitor appears "darker" in person versus yellow from picture.
another update, BenQ sent a new monitor without me proceeding with the RMA (delivery got me by surprise), I tested it and it has the same issue, so I am sending it back. I have suggested to them its a firmware issue and mentioned about their other series of screens having the same bug.
No it doesn't [work].
You just took a phone pic that shows an object that emits light, that's all. He asked for a macro picture of the coating.
Screw it, I'm keeping the Dell S2716DG. This is what I wanted originally, G Sync and no dead pixels or crap under the screen.
Yeah, I'm not a photographer. He'll have to wait for someone more talented then myself to do that. Or an official review (from what I saw, within 2 weeks for a real review).
Why not keep both?
the Benq is probably going to be the only non $10,000 LCD that gives full CRT type capability at all refresh rates (except 50hz which is missing single strobe data--do not enable "Single strobe" at 50hz UNLESS you are using a vertical total (VT) tweak to force 60hz backlight pulse widths (I Think VT 1260) for a very long time.
I don't think the Eizo Foris FS2735 will be able to single strobe at 60-144hz
the viewpixx is a great display for precise timing, but the viewing angles on the TN model are, predictably, pretty crap (as is the black level). In that sense, they don't give the full lambertian emittance of a CRT phosphor.
I have zero use for 2 monitors. The BenQ is a VERY nice monitor but I originally wanted G sync and now I have it. I've made my peace with it. One big plus is how much smaller the bezel on the Dell is, it makes the BenQ look really fat. My desk was a little cramped before but now it's perfectly fine.
Maybe this is the wrong thread, so I apologize in advance, but I remember reading in the past that an IPS @ 144hz (such as the Korean panels) is not apples to apples as a TN @ 144hz. Did I misread/misunderstand something, or is that true?
Currently, I have a QNIX 270, which can overclock to 96hz (although I upgraded drivers and screwed something up with respect to that), but am tempted to test 144hz.
what do you mean? for gaming the main difference between ips and tn is that tn pixels are faster, meaning less motion blur. in any case, you'd see a huge difference in motion clarity with any of these gaming monitors as the korean panels don't have overdrive.
Admittedly I may be remembering something incorrectly, but I think you answered it, with respect to the overdrive issue. Can I take it to mean that an IPS, with overdrive, at 144hz is equal in motion clarity to a TN at 144hz? I know I'm beating a dead horse, but there's so much information out there!
no, but it's very close. i doubt you'd be able to tell even if you put a PG279Q next to a PG278Q. the PG279Q average g2g response time is 5.2 ms while the PG278Q's is 2.9 ms, both with overdrive set to 'normal.'
Understood. Thank you for the education! Now to figure out whether or not to make the investment towards the PG279Q (or maybe the Dell) and what to do with the QNIX.
Your QNIX is still a respectable monitor. If it's working properly, why not keep it? Unless you need G sync right away.
It's working properly, but it's that itch man! I haven't actually gamed on it at 96hz because I never properly set it up, so I'm curious what that is like. I wouldn't be using G sync at all; AMD card and playing csgo anyways.
Keep your monitor and buy something else. As someone who's been through hell trying to find a pixel perfect monitor, keep what you got. Seriously.