Any chance that the PS3 will have 1680 x 1050 support?

common man

Weaksauce
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Like the Xbox 360? I imagine that Sony will not provide support because they want everyone doing 1080p and promote Blu Ray. If Sony provided 16:10 support I'd swap it for my Xbox 360 in a heart beat.
 
I was thinking about that the other day, switching my 360 for a ps3(most my buddies are now ps3 while I'm pc and 360). But then I remembered I'm in the same boat as you, ps3 doesn't support 1680x1050 and that's the input only resolution the 2209wa's can do. I think if they haven't supported it by now it's not worth holding out for it, xbox has had it since launch I believe.
 
The 360 added 16x10 with a later firmware...I think it was about a year after the console came out.
I've never seen it - doesn't it just letterbox it?
 
What happens when you plug the PS3 into a 16x10 monitor? Does it force stretch the image or just not work at all?
 
What happens when you plug the PS3 into a 16x10 monitor? Does it force stretch the image or just not work at all?

It tends to depend on the monitor. All Dells I've ever owned will stretch-to-aspect or 1:1 pixel map it, meaning black borders. The PS3 will work fine, without distortion, in that case.

I'm unsure what will happen if this is left purely to the PS3 on monitors without aspect stretch or pixel mapping. I would wager it would just stretch.
 
The 360's do that under VGA but not under HDMI or component which sucks because I am a HDMI kind of guy.
 
The 360's do that under VGA but not under HDMI or component which sucks because I am a HDMI kind of guy.

Not true- I use a hdmi to dvi adapter with my LG 22 inch monitor and it letterboxes 1690 x 1050 fine. It has small black borders on the top and bottom and the image is quite sharp IMHO- it looks and works great. Not sure why Sony doesn't do this with the PS3- you know it's capable of it. Then again, Sony doesn't make LCD computer monitors.
 
Not true- I use a hdmi to dvi adapter with my LG 22 inch monitor and it letterboxes 1690 x 1050 fine. It has small black borders on the top and bottom and the image is quite sharp IMHO- it looks and works great. Not sure why Sony doesn't do this with the PS3- you know it's capable of it. Then again, Sony doesn't make LCD computer monitors.

But what's it outputting? Is it putting out 1680x1050 or is it putting out a 720p image that's being upscaled by the monitor? The former is the only thing that really matters in this thread.

Also, the PS3 lacks the hardware scaler of the Xbox so I doubt you'll see non-TV resolutions supported (meaning 480/720/1080 i or p will be all you'll get)
 
yep - it outputs 1680 x 1050.

How can a PS3 lack a hardware scaler when it has to scale 1080p games and movies to 720p? It should be able to to the same for 16:10.
 
How can a PS3 lack a hardware scaler when it has to scale 1080p games and movies to 720p? It should be able to to the same for 16:10.
Bad news: it doesn't have a hardware scaler. Your games will output at 720p/1080i if the developer didn't add 1080p support to the game (either natively or through software scaling). Scaling _down_ is pretty easy in software. It's adding new pixels (scaling up) that's tricky.

That said, you're right, there's nothing necessarily stopping the hardware from outputting 1680x1050. But it strikes me that it would involve a lot of software updates (on a per-game basis), and that's probably not going to happen. Even if they just started doing it for new games, where would that leave new owners who happen to pick up a game and find out it won't output at a 16:10 resolution.

No, I don't think it'll happen. Maybe next generation.
 
That's just strange- it took a while but Microsoft could do it and I didn't think ATI's gpu is that much more advanced then the Nvidia gpu in the PS3.
 
That's just strange- it took a while but Microsoft could do it and I didn't think ATI's gpu is that much more advanced then the Nvidia gpu in the PS3.
The scaler in the 360 is a separate chip, not in the GPU. Sony was already having cost issues with its console when it was released... adding another chip could have been a serious financial issue.

Microsoft made a serious mistake by not including 7.1 sound in the 360... Sony's grand hardware mistake was the lack of a hardware scaler.
 
No, I don't think it'll happen. Maybe next generation.

I hope 1680x1050 is effectively killed off before the new generation of consoles launches. 16:10 is just an oddball LCD resolution that never had much of a reason to exist (much like 1440x900). Do people really have such a problem with the console only working in 16:9 resolutions that you would avoid buying one? Seems ridiculous, next time try buying a better monitor or suffer with those tiny black bars...

Hell you get the black bars on an XBox anyway. It just adds black bars on the top and bottom of a 16:9 frame to make it 16:10. Just have a decent monitor and it should be able to do this for you anyway.
 
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actually 16:10 makes a lot of sense for computer monitors, it's the aspect ratio of 2 letter sized documents side by side. computers are used for a lot of things other than gaming and video watching.
 
Seriously, WTF ocellaris? I freaking hate that all the new laptops and monitors are 16:9. There's not enough vertical space for normal computer tasks like browsing the internet! The sole reason for this is because of movies and television, yet a vast majority of people never watch movies on their laptop or computer monitor. :mad:
 
16:10 is definitely better for computer monitors, but its not all that big of a deal, in my opinion. Standardization is often a very good thing as it improves quality while lowering prices. A 24" 16:9 monitor will still have more vertical resolution than a 22" 16:10, and if the 22" aspect ratio is much rarer they might very well cost the same.

Studies have shown that the human eye perceives things better horizontally than it does vertically. The problem is moreso that we're still viewing content and programs designed for 4:3 monitors in the new widescreen ratios and most of the action takes place in the center of the screen while the sides are wasted. Someone smarter than me should figure out how to better utilize that space while not requiring websites and such to format differently based on resolution.

For example, why do we have taskbars at the top or bottom of the screen? Move them to the left or the right and you've gained back probably more than your lost aspect ratio while putting useful information in previously unused screen real estate.
 
Sony's grand hardware mistake was the lack of a hardware scaler.


Not really, most people that can afford a 400 dollar console, can afford a 1080p television for 600... Seriously, donate blood or something.
 
I don't know if someone mentioned this before, the PS3 outputs games at 720p and the Guide can be 1080p and Blu-ray are 1080p but all the games I own output at 720p.
 
Not really, most people that can afford a 400 dollar console, can afford a 1080p television for 600... Seriously, donate blood or something.
Your $600 1080p TV has a really trashy scaler in it. Try again.
 
It's frickin crazy how cheap 1080P HDTVs have become. You can get a 37-40" screen for less than what a dinky 26" 720p TV cost when the PS3 launched.

And I wouldn't blame Sony for not including scaling. They designed PS3 to scale and listed that functionality as a requirement for RSX. However Nvidia didn't catch a glitch in the hw, so it's only partially supported. The chance of PS3 ever supporting a native 1680x1050 output resolution is practically nil.
 
Your $600 1080p TV has a really trashy scaler in it. Try again.


It's doesn't take anything fancy to scale a 720p image to fit a 1080p screen. The scaler in a cheap 1080P TV is perfectly capable of handling it.
 
It's doesn't take anything fancy to scale a 720p image to fit a 1080p screen. The scaler in a cheap 1080P TV is perfectly capable of handling it.
You seem to be completely unaware that a cheap scaler will cause a loss of image quality. There are indeed cheap and easy methods to get to 1080p - but the output doesn't look all that good.
 
It's a simple process to scale in the same aspect ratio from 720p to 1080p. I doubt most will see any noticeable degradation. Are you going to show us some comparison, or rely on hypotheticals ?
 
It's a simple process to scale in the same aspect ratio from 720p to 1080p. I doubt most will see any noticeable degradation. Are you going to show us some comparison, or rely on hypotheticals ?
Just look at any review of a cheap upscaling DVD player to something like an Oppo. This isn't rocket science.
 
How many people are so picky they insist on using an Oppo ?

It's really not a big deal to rely on your TV for upscaling. I'd hardly call it a grand mistake. PS3's lack of functional scaling for games is unfortunate, however it's out of Sony's hands. Most people are never going to notice or care.

Anyone that picky about their image quality will find problems with any onboard scaling solution, they willl use a boutique outboard scaler as they see fit.
 
The PS3 supports scaling just fine. the functionality is built into the XMB. But, its up to the developer whether or not they decide to specifically program their game to support it. Sony doesn't require them to do it and the PS3 doesn't have a dedicated general scaling chip (like the 360 does that just grabs the video code from each game and scales it as is). Additionally, its likely that we'll only ever see tv standard resolutions, unless the scaling option for PS3 games gets its own separate XMB section in the future. As right now, PS3 game scaling is bound to the display settings and it could be confusing if they mixed non-standard resolutions in with standard crop for the PS3's base settings.
 
How many people are so picky they insist on using an Oppo ?
I don't know, nor do I care. People are "satisfied" with any number of horrific image quality settings on their TV, too. That does not change that what they're viewing is full of artifacts or has horrific colors. But thanks for at least admitting you were wrong about all upscaling being equal, because it sure isn't.

It's really not a big deal to rely on your TV for upscaling. I'd hardly call it a grand mistake. PS3's lack of functional scaling for games is unfortunate, however it's out of Sony's hands. Most people are never going to notice or care.
How is out of Sony's hands when THEY MADE THE CONSOLE? While I seriously doubt it was a defect with RSX (it's more like they added some libraries for doing hardware-assisted horizontal scaling later), they could have rejected the chip if it was.

Anyone that picky about their image quality will find problems with any onboard scaling solution, they willl use a boutique outboard scaler as they see fit.
Possibly. But, then again, if Sony had included a good solution with it, like the 360 has, that wouldn't be necessary. I'm not asking for the world here, I'm just asking for something decent. Sony didn't deliver, and I have no problems calling them out on it.
 
Possibly. But, then again, if Sony had included a good solution with it, like the 360 has, that wouldn't be necessary. I'm not asking for the world here, I'm just asking for something decent. Sony didn't deliver, and I have no problems calling them out on it.

You really think MS just adding black bars to a 16:9 image to make it 16:10, and then only working over VGA is a "good solution"? :rolleyes:
 
You really think MS just adding black bars to a 16:9 image to make it 16:10, and then only working over VGA is a "good solution"? :rolleyes:
Sure. Keeps aspect ratio, doesn't introduce artifacts. You must be one of those guys that hits the stretch setting on his TV for 4:3 material.
 
Sure. Keeps aspect ratio, doesn't introduce artifacts. You must be one of those guys that hits the stretch setting on his TV for 4:3 material.

You didn't mention the vga only part, which has no legitimate defense. I've used vga inputs on several tvs and the support and options available have ranged from subpar to downright terrible. Not to mention you can't hook it up into your receiver so thats more input switching to do. You also have to buy yet another expensive, proprietary cable.
 
Sure. Keeps aspect ratio, doesn't introduce artifacts. You must be one of those guys that hits the stretch setting on his TV for 4:3 material.

I don't stretch anything, but thanks! My point was that most decent monitors should be able to scale an image and preserve the aspect ratio. Microsoft offering a VGA only "solution" to me means its not really a solution at all.

Some image quality loss may be present when someone displays a image on a non native resolution, but who cares. As with any scaling some quality loss is likely present, however if people were that concerned with image quality, they should have bought a better display to begin with. Fact is most people have shitty displays or simply won't notice anyway. If their monitor can't scale an image and preserve aspect ratio, I feel bad for them. Even if you buy a 1080P TV, most everything out of a 360 os PS3 is getting scaled on one end or the other.

Btw I run 4:3 aspect 21 inch PVA computer monitors.
 
I connect my 360 to the 2209wa with a HDMI - DVI cable. 360 is set to 1680 x 1050 and I have 2 cm horizontal bars top and bottom (with proper aspect ratio in games & films). I am a newbie so maybe I'm missing something here but the scaling seems to work just fine with HDMI.
 
I connect my 360 to the 2209wa with a HDMI - DVI cable. 360 is set to 1680 x 1050 and I have 2 cm horizontal bars top and bottom (with proper aspect ratio in games & films). I am a newbie so maybe I'm missing something here but the scaling seems to work just fine with HDMI.

Apparently it does work without the VGA cable then, onoz!
 
Sony didn't deliver, and I have no problems calling them out on it.

Does an X360 scale to the quality of an Oppo's video scaling chips ? I highly doubt it. From what I remember, its DVD upscaling is lackluster. Do comparisons with movie formats matter to scaling a videogame image ? Can I see a screenshot of the artifacts ? Because in games like Uncharted 2, it looks better in 720p, letting my TV upscale, than letting the PS3 scale to 1080p in the options.

I'd like to see a blind test with you distinguishing between the X360's scaler and a typical consumer HDTV's. Neither are the pinnacle of performance. Are the PS3's graphics crippled because it can't scale to a PC monitor's resolution ?

I've read RSX is capable of full scaling support, but there was a glitch in the hw design by Nvidia so it was never exposed. But it's under NDA so we'll never get a guaranteed confirmation either way. 720 --1080p upscaling on a 1080p screen looks good, it's not as complex as changing aspect ratios while scaling.
 
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