Antioxidants May Make Cancer Worse

Megalith

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New research suggests that supplements could actually increase cancer risk.

These molecular investigations shed light on the large human trials that have implicated antioxidants in cancer. It is possible that the supplements did not triggercancer but rather accelerated the progression of existing undiagnosed cancers, making later discovery of the disease likely.In other words, it “could be that while antioxidants might prevent DNA damage—and thus impede tumor initiation—once a tumor is established, antioxidants might facilitate the malignant behavior of cancer cells,” Schafer says.
 

collegeboy69us

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Seems whatever you do, or *don't* do will give you cancer. Doesn't matter what you eat, drink, smoke, everything leads to cancer.

*shrugs* unemployed, single, bleeding out financially slowly... I'm caring less and less each day if something like this were to happen.
 

Derfnofred

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There's been plenty of data to show that for a good long while. As Dr. Kevin puts it, get thee a balanced diet. I'll add make sure you're getting a decent array of different food sources and you'll pretty well cover everything.

And there are plenty of major risk factors that increase your likelihood of getting cancer, but there's a fairly high baseline of cancer incidence (especially as we live longer and longer) and it's a noisy (biological) signal.
 

Trimlock

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Antioxidant is a buzz word, there really isn't anything recognized as "cancer" fighting.

The best thing to do is live a healthy life style and don't have a family history of cancer.
 

funkydmunky

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All we know for sure is that lack of nutrition leads to disease and death. How you chose to ingest what your body needs is up to you. Even in caloric rich nations such as the USA, there is essentially %100 of the population which is deficient in various essential vitamins and or minerals.
Lets blame supplements. Seems logical right?
 
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vitamin industry is just a big scam anyway.

just have a balanced diet.

So... kinda like the medical industry which exists mainly to "treat" you with more drugs... that in turn make you sicker and need more drugs... solely for the profit margins of the pharmaceutical companies, insurance companies, and doctors who will need to do more and more procedures as they make your health worse over time?

Or like the kinda "scam" that is the balanced diet suggested by the FDA and medical industry? The food pyramid, diamond, octagon... or whatever the fuck they call it this week depending on which lobby is paying the most for having their food suggested most highly? Even when it's a known fact that dairy is highly unhealthy for humans? And that we shouldn't eat all that much grain?

Yeah... I agree. Lots of people out there scamming us about our "health."
 

Spidey329

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So... kinda like the medical industry which exists mainly to "treat" you with more drugs... that in turn make you sicker and need more drugs... solely for the profit margins of the pharmaceutical companies, insurance companies, and doctors who will need to do more and more procedures as they make your health worse over time?

Or like the kinda "scam" that is the balanced diet suggested by the FDA and medical industry? The food pyramid, diamond, octagon... or whatever the fuck they call it this week depending on which lobby is paying the most for having their food suggested most highly? Even when it's a known fact that dairy is highly unhealthy for humans? And that we shouldn't eat all that much grain?

Yeah... I agree. Lots of people out there scamming us about our "health."

... I think we might need to dial back the Jesse Ventura meter here a tad. We're approaching Randy Quaid levels.
 

Decibel

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So... kinda like the medical industry which exists mainly to "treat" you with more drugs... that in turn make you sicker and need more drugs... solely for the profit margins of the pharmaceutical companies, insurance companies, and doctors who will need to do more and more procedures as they make your health worse over time?

Or like the kinda "scam" that is the balanced diet suggested by the FDA and medical industry? The food pyramid, diamond, octagon... or whatever the fuck they call it this week depending on which lobby is paying the most for having their food suggested most highly? Even when it's a known fact that dairy is highly unhealthy for humans? And that we shouldn't eat all that much grain?

Yeah... I agree. Lots of people out there scamming us about our "health."

<Blink, blink...>

What are you talking about? All he said was that the vitamin a supplement industry is a bunch of scammers.

They are, they're a bunch of anti science liars, who through lobbying have been successful at maintaining protection from any over site. (Fuck you Senator Hatch, fuck you.)
 

Ashbringer

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Well like anything it's all moderation. Too much Omega 3 is bad. Too much water is bad. Too much of anything is bad. With western diets I doubt you could consume too much antioxidants to combat the oxidants people consume today.
 

NoNRG

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So do antioxidants prevent or delay cancer from forming in the first place? This study doesn't answer this question. Interesting outcome nonetheless.
 

Ashbringer

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<Blink, blink...>

What are you talking about? All he said was that the vitamin a supplement industry is a bunch of scammers.

They are, they're a bunch of anti science liars, who through lobbying have been successful at maintaining protection from any over site. (Fuck you Senator Hatch, fuck you.)
Actually mltivitamins have been proven to increase the amount of Telomres in woman. But it helps to know what you eat and what vitamin you could be deficient in. Most Americans are deficient in Omega 3 and consume boat loads of Omega 6, but you need a 1:1 ratio of them both to be healthy.
 

atp1916

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Did i hear my name? :D

 
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<Blink, blink...>

What are you talking about? All he said was that the vitamin a supplement industry is a bunch of scammers.

They are, they're a bunch of anti science liars, who through lobbying have been successful at maintaining protection from any over site. (Fuck you Senator Hatch, fuck you.)

My point is, while there are plenty of vitamin scammers out there, there are just as many "mainstream" medical scammers, if not more... as there are many vitamins and herbs which are incredibly beneficial...

Case in point, my uncle was an MD for over 20 years when he got "terminal" cancer, and when the medical establishment said tough luck, he turned to a herbalist who cured him.

After that, he went back to school to study natural health care, and turned his back on mainstream medicine... in the 5 years since he has claimed to help more people than he ever did in 20+ years as a doctor...

I personally know other people who have cured ailments ranging from cancer to diabetes going the natural route, so yeah... while there are plenty of vitamin scammers, writing of natural healthcare and preaching established medicine is just ignorance.
 

Derfnofred

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Sheeple is amusing. I was going to ask you guys to actually give us some published studies, but I'm sure you've got that covered as to why there's a solid lack of evidence (you know, the kind that many scientists would run over their own mother to get to).

As far as Westerner's lacking macro and micronutrients, no. The number of cases of diet-based (as opposed to disease/genetic-predisposed) nutritional deficiencies is tiny and from neglect. The body is freaking amazing about managing its nutritional needs (not that we should not help it).

Here's an invitation, bring forth your good evidence to support your assertions and I'll happily defend with my own. N=1 stories (which are probably modified for better effect) are lovely, but even the plural of anecdote is not data. Start with collections of RCTs (meta-papers consisting of purely higher quality data) and lets move down from there. Ball is in your court.

And, no the deleterious effects of antioxidants have been known for a while, and like most everything else medically-related, "it depends" is the safest choice of words on whether or not something is good. But, here's just a taste of what awaits you when you go digging around for "antioxidant side effects" on Google Scholar:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140673695926577 (athlerosclerosis)
http://jco.ascopubs.org/content/23/24/5805.short
http://nutritionreviews.oxfordjournals.org/content/70/5/257.abstract
 
D

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BAH!

EVERYTHING is bad for you. And you're going to die from SOMETHING sooner or later.

Fuck Jack LaLanne, eat stuff that actually tastes good.

Just control your portions and get exercise.
 

michalrz

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My golden rules are:
1. eat everything you damn well please, but in small amounts. Hell, live on candy bars, as long as you don't experience problems like weakness or gastric issues. Try cutting down on everything and then re-introduce various food groups and simply see how you feel. That simple.
2. Avoid clearly toxic crap like deep fried or smoked meats. Don't drink alcohol or use nicotine every day. Note I'm not saying avoid it like the plague. Nicotine has been shown to improv
3. Move around so that your heart has a chance to pump blood to each and every cell in your body - wash out crap and replenish structures.
4. If you have an inflammation in your body, such as an ulcer, rotten tooth, prolonged spinal issues - get that stuff under control. A benign polyp in your intestines might not be aggresive in itself, but has the potential to block blood flow - and there's your vector right there.

Vitamins? Have a potato :D
 

Ashbringer

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Sheeple is amusing. I was going to ask you guys to actually give us some published studies, but I'm sure you've got that covered as to why there's a solid lack of evidence (you know, the kind that many scientists would run over their own mother to get to).

As far as Westerner's lacking macro and micronutrients, no. The number of cases of diet-based (as opposed to disease/genetic-predisposed) nutritional deficiencies is tiny and from neglect. The body is freaking amazing about managing its nutritional needs (not that we should not help it).

Here's an invitation, bring forth your good evidence to support your assertions and I'll happily defend with my own. N=1 stories (which are probably modified for better effect) are lovely, but even the plural of anecdote is not data. Start with collections of RCTs (meta-papers consisting of purely higher quality data) and lets move down from there. Ball is in your court.

And, no the deleterious effects of antioxidants have been known for a while, and like most everything else medically-related, "it depends" is the safest choice of words on whether or not something is good. But, here's just a taste of what awaits you when you go digging around for "antioxidant side effects" on Google Scholar:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140673695926577 (athlerosclerosis)
http://jco.ascopubs.org/content/23/24/5805.short
http://nutritionreviews.oxfordjournals.org/content/70/5/257.abstract

The reason to eat antioxidant food is to combat free radicals which occurs naturally in the human body. Radicals aren't bad, your body uses it to attack bacteria and infections and exercising also causes free radicals and that isn't bad either. But when you include smoking, sun light, eating cooked food, the amount of free radicals adds up and causes damage. So you would have to eat nothing but antioxidants to cause damage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UO7OnjPJUM8
 

Derfnofred

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Ashbringer--never meant to say that foods high in natural antioxidants are bad, but that you'll get more than enough from, as you say, a decent diet with plenty of fruits and veggies.

Anything beyond that, without a known disease and a known "drug" pathway (as I'm willing to call some doses of supplements) is what's deleterious to your health.

And that's without going into USPSTF's recommendations on multivitamins: http://annals.org/article.aspx?articleid=1832969
 

Ocean

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i am pro olive oil. niacin flushing, and for my heavyness, glucosamine and chondroitin.
 

Exavior

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The only prevention of cancer is suicide. If you are dead you can't get cancer.
 

Derfnofred

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Hahahahahahaha. Please, please, please read all kinds of literature pro/con the China Study if you care. There may be valuable information included in it somewhere but it's a veritable game of bingo in terms of "things not to do in a scientific study" when marshaling data sets.

A good start: http://rawfoodsos.com/the-china-study/

*Again, I go back to my point of:
a decent diet with plenty of fruits and veggies.
 

roma

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I didn't see where beta-carotene was natural or synthetic. Synthetic is always garbage and thats what most of these studies use
 

Derfnofred

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Welcome. I haven't read her book, but her critiques raise good and important questions.

And agree on trying to seek out a variety of info from a wide array of sources.
 

Ashbringer

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Hornet

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I'm always a little skeptical whenever I see reports of certain food causes cancer, or prevents it. I feel like most claims are based on statistical observation, and we still don't know enough to say this is exactly how it works, how this process leads to that, and eventually cancer.

As someone mentioned earlier, I think the best we can do is eat a healthy diet, that's all.
 

Comixbooks

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Vitamins are not a scam I feel beter on SOME of them lots of the Herbals are flat out bad and wi a Hyper active sweat induced Green Coffee Bean Addict.

I take Magnesium Citrate Natural Calm Brand
Luten for my eyes Helps alot with Brightness from anyhthing
Multivitamin for exotics like Selenium Vitamin C
Cod Liver Oil once a week great for Libido helps with sleep contains Vitamin A D Omega 3 fatty acids helps with your teeth and gums too.
L- Tryptophan for sleep when needed not the best but it works
Glucosimin for joints weekly kinda expensive if you take it daily not sure if it's safe but it works.
Fiber One generic
 
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