Anthem Alpha Streamer Loses Entire EA Origin Library after Breaking NDA

Simmonz

2[H]4U
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
2,506
This may be EA's right, I understand how NDA's work but this is why I prefer DRM free stores. If GOG or Itch.io pulled this with me it would be useless as I have backup copies of all my games.
 

umeng2002

Gawd
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
923
EA is garbage, but I haven't had any bad customer support from them. I don't know how banning his account will accomplish anything. Just ban him from online play maybe.

And the argument about you buying a license and not owing the copy is technically right but it's not the same thing.

Even with discs... even without online DRM... you always just bought a license. There was no way to prevent someone from playing the software on the disc if the license was technically violated.

Online distribution just gives you more control of your licensees.
 

DrBorg

Gawd
Joined
Jan 22, 2005
Messages
555
I havent bought any EA games since they bought gamespy to shut down all the old games, so that maybe we would buy their new garbage.

Hug those Assholes; they can have a nice meal eating the peanuts from my shit.

#bebest!
:rofl:
 

Reader67

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Apr 12, 2017
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Did he even have any other EA games? Going by his desktop, Origin was a recent installation. He may have only installed it because he got in the alpha.
 

Delicieuxz

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May 11, 2016
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Your citation disagrees with your assertion. While he is confident that a Supreme Court ruling in the US would back his claim, he fully admits that the Supreme Court has not actually made such a ruling and prior US rulings have been inconsistant:

some reading in regards:

It's not to say there have been pro-consumer rulings in regards to software ownership in the US, as there have been. But there's been enough rulings against the consumer that it is dangerous water to tread in without the financial and legal backing to deal with the consequences.

Yes, in the US the matter hasn't completely gone one way or the other. However, the US Supreme Court ruling concerning the first-sale doctrine applying to copyrighted goods (such as software, books, movies...) implies there is ownership gained when purchasing software. And the US Software & Information Industry Association's strong dislike of the ruling shows that they understand it as making an implication towards ownership - as the first-sale doctrine says that what you sell (such as a software license) is no longer yours to dictate terms over, and what you purchase becomes yours to exclusively make decisions regarding.


Regarding the two specific court cases you mentioned, one from 2008 and another from 2010, as those are lower court rulings, any part of them that is in conflict with the US Supreme Court's 2013 ruling that the first-sale doctrine applies to copyrighted goods is rendered void. The Supreme Court is the top and final authority in the US, and what the USSC rules applies to everything and overrules any previous contrary ruling. As far as I'm aware, the USSC's 2013 ruling is the most recent statement on software-purchaser rights in the US.

Something that stands out to me about those 2 two lower court rulings is that the judges in those cases were seemingly confused, assuming a false dichotomy between licensing and owning. When a person who purchases a copy that is of an IP, such as a movie, a book, a car, a clothing item, a game, or an OS, they are both licensing and owning: They become owners of the product instance that they purchased, which itself is a licensed copy of an IP - they license the IP, they own the copy of the IP that they purchased. When you purchase a book, you own the book that you purchased, but you haven't gained ownership over its source material.

Also, it looks to me like the Vernor V. Autodesk ruling in particular is completely overruled by the 2013 USSC ruling which says that people may resell their copyrighted goods, full-stop. Whether that good is the software or a license that is the right to use the software, a person may resell it without Autodesk's permission.


All of that is regarding the US, though. In the EU and in Australia, definitive rulings have been made by their highest courts that people do own software they purchase. Australia has had a ruling specifically against Valve earlier this year stating that Valve sells games and the people who purchase games from Valve receive all normal rights that go along with purchasing and owning something.
 
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Lakados

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Feb 3, 2014
Messages
4,951
So, apparently Anthem was the only game in the library. So while it is true they lost their entire library the actual impact is much less severe. It seems somebody is just trying to drum up traffic to their twitch account.
 

oldmanbal

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 27, 2010
Messages
2,600
Anyone else in the anthem test tomorrow or sunday? I'm in all 4 this weekend. PM me if you wanna group up.

Also, keep in mind the servers limits are capped so if you are planning on playing try to log in at the start of the time window or you may not even get a spot.
 

DukenukemX

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Jan 30, 2005
Messages
5,927
How is this even legal.
Probably because there's no real way of knowing if you legally own games from Steam or Origin. Remember you can't even sell the license or anything so in a way you don't own anything. If this keeps up then eventually the government will step in and finally make some digital ownership laws.
 

umeng2002

Gawd
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
923
You should create a corporation and buy all your games through that. Since corporations never die, you can "give" the games to who ever you want after you die... As it stands now, when you die, your account is closed.
 
Joined
Jan 24, 2004
Messages
8
look at the desktop. he has a few games but no other EA games but anthem alpha. they only killed his anthem account. He is just trying to play the victim.
 

Ebernanut

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Messages
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I would be surprised if EA taking away previously purchased games for an unrelated issue would stand up to a legal challenge however I would be even more surprised if someone bothered to challenge it due to the cost.

Also, it looks to me like the Vernor V. Autodesk ruling in particular is completely overruled by the 2013 USSC ruling which says that people may resell their copyrighted goods, full-stop. Whether that good is the software or a license that is the right to use the software, a person may resell it without Autodesk's permission.

Actually that ruling would likely hold up but that's only because it has to do with whether you're allowed to sell a licensed copy after you've already used the key to activate a discounted upgrade to the newer version of the software. Of course that's also why it doesn't belong in these discussions unless the topic is about selling a game after getting a discount on a GOTY/Directors Cut/remaster version because you owned the original.
 

emphy

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Aug 31, 2016
Messages
301
How is this even legal.

Possibly, it isn't. However, very few people are ready to take on a multi-billion corporation to test this in court. Not only because of the financial risk, but also because of the time, possible negative publicity, and general damage to one's mental state.
 

viscountalpha

2[H]4U
Joined
Oct 16, 2011
Messages
2,605
I got in to the alpha , you had to agree to a lot of stuff. Not that I read all of it lol but I would totally not stream it. Hell it has a random water mark all over it. They want to make sure you don’t stream or share pictures of it. I have been in a lot of betas that have done the same. Not sure why people think it’s ok to do this after agreeing to not do it. You agreed to not share and you broke it , now your digital library is gone. I feel no sadnes for you. It sucks , but it’s no one else’s fault but your own.

Break a deal, face the wheel.
 

Vader1975

Gawd
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May 11, 2016
Messages
820
I can't understand why you would see the letters NDA and not assume oh I can't share this. I am in this myself and never even considered sharing any part of it.
 

DukenukemX

Supreme [H]ardness
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Messages
5,927
EA didn't delete anything, win10 just updated and deleted some random shit which just happened to be his origin library.
This made me laugh. Though I kinda believe it too knowing Windows.
 

LigTasm

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Messages
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You guys whining about EA taking away his games, EA took away one of mine just for installing it too many times. I lost my Crysis game because I was using it to bench computers and it automatically locked me out after 20 installs or something like that, they said I'd have to buy it again if I wanted it back.
 

percydaman

Limp Gawd
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Jun 26, 2011
Messages
294
Better read that crap that everyone clicks through - their general TOS, which the EA NDA references, warns that severe violations can go up to account termination:

http://tos.ea.com/legalapp/WEBTERMS/US/en/PC/#section8

BTW I checked into it and the NDA isn't even that onerous as far as NDAs go - mostly common sense stuff. Maybe the only objectionable term in there is if you give them feedback they can credit you without having to ask you first; no thanks. Everything else is pretty standard stuff. You can read it yourself below if you like.

Alpha Agreement

Welcome to EA. We hope you enjoy participating in the Alpha Program, which includes access to pre-release product, EA Virtual Currency (defined below in Section 3), and In-Game Content (collectively, the “Alpha Materials").

Your participation in the Alpha Program is governed by this Agreement, and EA’s User Agreement (terms.ea.com) and Privacy and Cookie Policy (privacy.ea.com), which are incorporated by reference (collectively, the “Alpha Agreement Terms”). This Agreement is between you and the EA entity listed in the EA User Agreement.

By participating in the Alpha Program, you agree to the ALPHA AGREEMENT Terms. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE, DO NOT install or use THE ALPHA MATERIALS, OR PARTICIPATE IN THE ALPHA PROGRAM.

1. Alpha Program Participation Requirements

By participating in the Alpha Program, you agree that:

A. Your access to the Alpha Program begins once you install or access the Alpha Materials, and ends when the Alpha Program expires unless extended or terminated earlier.

B. An Internet connection and EA Account may be required to participate in the Alpha. To create an EA Account, you must provide a valid email address. You must be eligible to participate in the Alpha Program and be a resident of a country where participation in the Alpha Program is permitted.

C. You are 18 years of age or older.

2. License

Your use of the Alpha Materials is subject to all license and other terms described in the EA User Agreement.

3. Virtual Currency and other In-Game Content

EA may offer virtual or fictional points, coins, or currencies (“EA Virtual Currency”) in the Alpha Program. When you obtain this EA Virtual Currency, you receive a limited, non-assignable, non-exclusive, revocable license to access and select from in-game products, services, assets, or content (“EA In-Game Content”) that EA expressly makes available in the Alpha Program. The EA User Agreement contains additional terms that apply to your access and use of EA Virtual Currency and EA In-Game Content.

The Alpha Program and Alpha Materials will run in a test environment, and characters, achievements, progress, features, EA Virtual Currency and EA In-Game Content that you obtain while participating in the Alpha Program may be erased, updated or modified at EA's sole discretion, at any time and without notice to you. EA does not guarantee that any particular EA Virtual Currency or EA In-Game Content will be available at all times or at any given time. These items may not be accessible after the Alpha Program ends, or after commercial launch of the game.

4. Reviewing and Evaluating Alpha Materials

Your participation in the Alpha Program is voluntary, done for your personal enjoyment, and does not constitute employment or an offer of employment between you and EA. EA does not ask or require you to work a certain number of hours or shifts to participate in the Program. EA expects you only to use your leisure time to participate in the Alpha Program, and does not expect you to forego other activities, including gainful employment. Your participation in the Alpha Program and any feedback, suggestions and comments you give EA (such as bug reports and test results) (“Feedback”) do not entitle you to receive compensation of any kind.

EA shall have the right (but not the obligation), at its sole discretion, to credit you for the Feedback, and you grant EA a license to attribute such Feedback to you. You grant EA the right (but not the obligation) to use the Feedback for any purpose, including in any products, marketing, or other media, without your approval or notice, and without compensating you. You represent and warrant that (1) you have the right to enter into this Agreement and assign and grant these rights; and (2) any Feedback provided by you is your original work and does not infringe any third party intellectual property rights.

By participating in the Alpha Program, you agree to receive communications by email about your participation in the Alpha Program, including to solicit Feedback, even if you have not agreed to receive general EA marketing email.

5. Termination

This Agreement is effective until terminated by you or EA. EA may terminate your EA Account as well as your access to the Alpha Program and Alpha Materials if you violate this Agreement or any of the Alpha Agreement Terms. Sections 1-10 of this Agreement survive termination of this Agreement.

6. Relief and Indemnity

You agree that a breach or threatened breach of this Agreement will cause EA irreparable injury, that money damages would be an inadequate remedy, and that EA shall be entitled to ex parte injunctive relief without bond to stop a breach or threatened breach.

7. Use of Data

When you participate in the Alpha Program, EA may collect and store data from your computer or device, including information about your computer or device and operating system (such as IP Address and device ID), information about your Alpha Materials usage, gameplay and usage statistics, system interactions and peripheral hardware. If you participate in the Alpha Program offline, this data will be stored on your device and transmitted to EA when your device connects to the Internet. EA uses this information to operate its business, improve its products and services, provide services to and communicate with you (including for marketing purposes), provide software updates, dynamically served content and software support, and troubleshoot bugs or enhance your experience.

You should not disclose your personal information in your public communications within the Alpha Materials. EA is not responsible for information that you choose to communicate to other users within the Alpha Program, or for the actions of other users. EA reserves the right to monitor this content and communications.

8. Confidentiality

All Alpha Materials and information you provide EA in connection with the Alpha Program are EA “Confidential Information.” Confidential Information includes: (1) Information about, within, or sent through the Alpha Materials and the Alpha Program, including (a) the performance, capabilities and content of the Alpha Materials; and (b) Feedback from you, other Alpha Program Participants, or EA employees; and; and (2) Information about EA’s products, services or business operations.

You may not share, publish, disclose, distribute, transmit, post or make available, directly or indirectly, Confidential Information to any third party, until EA publicly releases the product(s) or content you are reviewing. However, you may disclose the existence of the Alpha Program and that you are a member of the Alpha Program.

At EA’s request, you must return to EA any and all copies of the Alpha Materials delivered to you.

9. Alpha Materials

To access and use Alpha Materials on Sony PlayStation 4, you may need to register with the serial code enclosed with the Alpha Materials or otherwise provided to you by EA.

The Alpha Materials may use Origin Online Activation, and also may use Sony DADC Austria AG’s Denuvo content protection technology, as described in the EA User Agreement.

EA Anti-Cheat Technologies. EA may use its own anti-cheat technologies in connection with the Alpha Program. When you connect online to a game server, these technologies will activate and monitor your game play, the game files associated with the Alpha Materials and your computer’s RAM. These technologies detect cheating and any unauthorized third-party programs running concurrently with the Alpha Materials and any modifications to the Alpha Materials’ files enabling or facilitating cheating. An unauthorized third-party program is any third party program or file (such as a “addon”, “mod”, “hack”, “trainer”, or “cheat”) that EA believes (i) enables or facilitates cheating of any type: (ii) allows users to modify or hack the Alpha Materials’ interface, environment, or experience in any way not expressly authorized by EA: or (iii) Intercepts, “mines”, or otherwise collects information from or through the Alpha Materials. When you disconnect from the game server, these anti-cheat technologies will be deactivated.

If our systems detect cheating, we may collect relevant information, including your EA Account name, details about any unauthorized third party programs and the Alpha Materials files modification detected, and the time and date the cheating was detected. If we determine you have been cheating, we also may terminate your participation in the Alpha Program and, in some cases, your EA Account.

10. Warranty

YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THE ALPHA MATERIALS PROVIDED HEREUNDER ARE PRE-RELEASE PRODUCTS. YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THE ALPHA MATERIALS MAY CONTAIN ERRORS AND DEFECTS, AND ARE NOT FINAL PRODUCTS. EA DOES NOT PROVIDE ANY TECHNICAL SUPPORT FOR THE ALPHA PROGRAM OR THE ALPHA MATERIALS.

EXCEPT AS STATED ABOVE, ALL STATUTORY WARRANTIES AND PROVISIONS RELATING TO LIABILITY AND EXPORT RESTRICTIONS ARE SET OUT IN THE EA USER AGREEMENT.

11. Changes to this Agreement

If we revise terms affecting existing elements of the Alpha Program, these changes shall be effective thirty (30) days after we send you email notice. If we add new terms to the Alpha Program, these terms are effective immediately after we have sent you an email notice. Your continued use of the Alpha Materials means you accept the changes. Once you accept a version of the Agreement, we will not enforce future material changes without your express agreement to them. If you are asked to accept material changes to this Agreement and you decline to do so, you may not be able to continue to use the EA Alpha Materials provided.

Funny how people think that just because a company wrote a TOS or EULA, that it must be automatically legal just because somebody clicked accept. That's not how the law works. You can't enter into an illegal contract by law. Also, nowhere in the NDA does it say that EA will remove things you have already purchased. You have rights as a consumer, even if you sign some document created by a company for the sole benefit of the company. Companies create these knowing full well that certain parts of them are incredibly iffy when it comes to legality. But you would have to sue them to challenge it.

Having said all that: EA is within their rights to sue for breach of the NDA. And this idiot would deserve it.
 

percydaman

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 26, 2011
Messages
294
You guys whining about EA taking away his games, EA took away one of mine just for installing it too many times. I lost my Crysis game because I was using it to bench computers and it automatically locked me out after 20 installs or something like that, they said I'd have to buy it again if I wanted it back.

What kind of dipshit logic is this? Because EA fucked you over, everybody should get fucked?
 

Pitbull#2

Limp Gawd
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Mar 23, 2011
Messages
380
Im on the Xbox one Alph and I like all my games enough NOT to do something stupid .Espec when you sign-the waiver that you wont do that lol.
 

LigTasm

Supreme [H]ardness
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Jul 29, 2011
Messages
5,163
What kind of dipshit logic is this? Because EA fucked you over, everybody should get fucked?

The same kind of dipshit logic that reads what I wrote and thinks saying some crap like this is smart, apparently.
 

DejaWiz

Fully [H]
Joined
Apr 15, 2005
Messages
21,400
Banning and/or wiping out an online account has been common practice for pre-released software ToS/NDA violations since the dawn of the digital download service.

It is, at its simplest form, a two step process:

Step 1: actually *READ* the EULA, ToS, Privacy Policy, and NDA.
Step 2: if agreed to, then *DON'T* violate them.
 

Anemone

Gawd
Joined
Apr 5, 2004
Messages
902
Problem is if you put up a legal fight to restore your lost software, they counter with a prosecutable violation of NDA, for which they could seek damages. The correct legal process is to resolve both these claims for the proper outcome. In this case probably the user got the better deal, financially.
 

OutOfPhase

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May 11, 2005
Messages
4,450
I know we're off on the issue of "what do you really own", but I'm still stuck on "why do people think contracts or laws do not apply to them".

Really this penalty is a pretty damn soft introduction to the concept of a legal agreement. The others later in this persons life will probably not have such lenient escape clauses.
 

Grimlaking

2[H]4U
Joined
May 9, 2006
Messages
3,246
I understand them revoking his alpha privileges and even blacklisting him from future alpha/beta access, but taking the shit he’s already paid for? That’s fucked, and should be illegal.

Ah but here is the rub. Actually it's kind of two rubs here. Any more and he'd be finished... getit.. ahhh nevermind.

1. He didn't own any of the content in his Origin account. All he had was a license to download and play said content that he paid for.

2. I haven't read the NDA nor have I actually read the agreement for using the Origin service... but I'm betting it's pretty damn tight on what you can and can't do with it as well. Meaning the ability to revoke access to the games and such.

In order to combat this it would combat a lot of IP law that software vendors have relied on for a long time. And I'm betting to Mr Alpha tester that broke the NDA, and others so denied access to content they paid to access... the legal fees just haven't been worth it.

In essence it's going to need a solid team of lawyers to go through the NDA's from the first agreed to, all th way to the most current that a specific user has agreed to. ALSO that EA can prove the user agreed to. (that part won't be too hard.) And in essence a lot of money and time. And that's just for the investigation part of the lawsuit. Next they need to actually PROVE they have a case before they can file suit.

All in all someone needs to loose access that either has money to burn, or free lawyers, or OR, is a lawyer and has some cash to burn but KNOWS they can win and make that back + damages.

IE it's going to take someone with deep pockets and legal knowledge of this happening to, that ALSO is a gamer (guessing on that part) that has a hate on for EA. (I think is a gamer covers that part.)
 

PeaKr

Gawd
Joined
Sep 6, 2004
Messages
890
Maybe ea should pay employees to do its own alpha testing to avoid negative publicity, oh wait that would cut into their bonus.
 

Delicieuxz

[H]ard|Gawd
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Messages
1,288
Ah but here is the rub. Actually it's kind of two rubs here. Any more and he'd be finished... getit.. ahhh nevermind.

1. He didn't own any of the content in his Origin account. All he had was a license to download and play said content that he paid for.

A software license is a property, and it's the right to use an IP via a non-reproduceable instance of the IP which is what is licensed:


Also, you do own the games you purchase through Steam and other digital retailers, and there have been court cases in parts of the world ruling such.

I've put examples of court rulings on the matter in this post: https://linustechtips.com/main/topi...rwise-are-urban-myth-or-corporate-propaganda/

When you pay for a license, you own that license.

The common EULA phrase "This software is licensed, not sold" refers to the software IP being licensed and not the individual licenses, which are clearly sold and not leased, loaned, or licensed.

It is the same as when you purchase clothing or vehicles: You don't own the IP for those things, but you own a licensed instance of those things and that licensed instance, the copy you purchased, is your own property.

A license is a right to use something that belongs to someone else - in this case, the game IPs, which is used to play the copy of the game that people purchase and own (in the view of the EU and Australian top courts).
 

DPI

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Apr 20, 2013
Messages
12,100
This bait has already been debunked.

The mistake EA made was not understanding that gaming culture has devolved to a collective FortNite 9 year old's brain. The drama-queening of this streamer and subsequent regurgitating of this FUD by every gaming blog and forum is mental.
 
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Dregan73

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 10, 2007
Messages
234
there is no evidence they deleted his library he never showed he had any other games installed prior, for all we know the alpha was the only thing he had
 
Joined
Jun 30, 2017
Messages
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Shocking... I got in to the alpha and as expected bunch of connection issues but what made me stop trying: it was boring and annoyingly couldn't get the controls to feel "right" not even starting on menu/selecting things.

But in total so NOT worth getting banned for.
 
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