Anthem Alpha Streamer Loses Entire EA Origin Library after Breaking NDA

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by Megalith, Dec 8, 2018.

  1. Simmonz

    Simmonz 2[H]4U

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    This may be EA's right, I understand how NDA's work but this is why I prefer DRM free stores. If GOG or Itch.io pulled this with me it would be useless as I have backup copies of all my games.
     
  2. umeng2002

    umeng2002 Gawd

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    EA is garbage, but I haven't had any bad customer support from them. I don't know how banning his account will accomplish anything. Just ban him from online play maybe.

    And the argument about you buying a license and not owing the copy is technically right but it's not the same thing.

    Even with discs... even without online DRM... you always just bought a license. There was no way to prevent someone from playing the software on the disc if the license was technically violated.

    Online distribution just gives you more control of your licensees.
     
  3. DrBorg

    DrBorg Gawd

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    I havent bought any EA games since they bought gamespy to shut down all the old games, so that maybe we would buy their new garbage.

    Hug those Assholes; they can have a nice meal eating the peanuts from my shit.

    #bebest!
    :rofl:
     
  4. Reader67

    Reader67 n00b

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    Did he even have any other EA games? Going by his desktop, Origin was a recent installation. He may have only installed it because he got in the alpha.
     
  5. Delicieuxz

    Delicieuxz Gawd

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    Yes, in the US the matter hasn't completely gone one way or the other. However, the US Supreme Court ruling concerning the first-sale doctrine applying to copyrighted goods (such as software, books, movies...) implies there is ownership gained when purchasing software. And the US Software & Information Industry Association's strong dislike of the ruling shows that they understand it as making an implication towards ownership - as the first-sale doctrine says that what you sell (such as a software license) is no longer yours to dictate terms over, and what you purchase becomes yours to exclusively make decisions regarding.


    Regarding the two specific court cases you mentioned, one from 2008 and another from 2010, as those are lower court rulings, any part of them that is in conflict with the US Supreme Court's 2013 ruling that the first-sale doctrine applies to copyrighted goods is rendered void. The Supreme Court is the top and final authority in the US, and what the USSC rules applies to everything and overrules any previous contrary ruling. As far as I'm aware, the USSC's 2013 ruling is the most recent statement on software-purchaser rights in the US.

    Something that stands out to me about those 2 two lower court rulings is that the judges in those cases were seemingly confused, assuming a false dichotomy between licensing and owning. When a person who purchases a copy that is of an IP, such as a movie, a book, a car, a clothing item, a game, or an OS, they are both licensing and owning: They become owners of the product instance that they purchased, which itself is a licensed copy of an IP - they license the IP, they own the copy of the IP that they purchased. When you purchase a book, you own the book that you purchased, but you haven't gained ownership over its source material.

    Also, it looks to me like the Vernor V. Autodesk ruling in particular is completely overruled by the 2013 USSC ruling which says that people may resell their copyrighted goods, full-stop. Whether that good is the software or a license that is the right to use the software, a person may resell it without Autodesk's permission.


    All of that is regarding the US, though. In the EU and in Australia, definitive rulings have been made by their highest courts that people do own software they purchase. Australia has had a ruling specifically against Valve earlier this year stating that Valve sells games and the people who purchase games from Valve receive all normal rights that go along with purchasing and owning something.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2018
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  6. Lakados

    Lakados [H]ard|Gawd

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    So, apparently Anthem was the only game in the library. So while it is true they lost their entire library the actual impact is much less severe. It seems somebody is just trying to drum up traffic to their twitch account.
     
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  7. oldmanbal

    oldmanbal [H]ard|Gawd

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    Anyone else in the anthem test tomorrow or sunday? I'm in all 4 this weekend. PM me if you wanna group up.

    Also, keep in mind the servers limits are capped so if you are planning on playing try to log in at the start of the time window or you may not even get a spot.
     
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  8. DukenukemX

    DukenukemX [H]ardness Supreme

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    Probably because there's no real way of knowing if you legally own games from Steam or Origin. Remember you can't even sell the license or anything so in a way you don't own anything. If this keeps up then eventually the government will step in and finally make some digital ownership laws.
     
  9. theBrownLlama

    theBrownLlama Gawd

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    i rather take the loss of a Origin account then be liable for USD10k (assumption) in penalties. ( which i see them adding into new NDAs)
     
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  10. umeng2002

    umeng2002 Gawd

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    You should create a corporation and buy all your games through that. Since corporations never die, you can "give" the games to who ever you want after you die... As it stands now, when you die, your account is closed.
     
  11. tetris42

    tetris42 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Because it's largely uncontested. It may not be legal at all, but isn't challenged much, which is how they prefer to keep it. Look at how lootboxes and gambling laws are going.
     
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  12. nutzo

    nutzo [H]ardness Supreme

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    One of these cases will end up in court and then we'll find out if you actually own the software you are buying.
     
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  13. harbingerofdoom

    harbingerofdoom Gawd

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    because you dont own what you've paid for. thats how its legal.
     
  14. the_spaceknight

    the_spaceknight n00b

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    look at the desktop. he has a few games but no other EA games but anthem alpha. they only killed his anthem account. He is just trying to play the victim.
     
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  15. Ebernanut

    Ebernanut [H]ard|Gawd

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    I would be surprised if EA taking away previously purchased games for an unrelated issue would stand up to a legal challenge however I would be even more surprised if someone bothered to challenge it due to the cost.

    Actually that ruling would likely hold up but that's only because it has to do with whether you're allowed to sell a licensed copy after you've already used the key to activate a discounted upgrade to the newer version of the software. Of course that's also why it doesn't belong in these discussions unless the topic is about selling a game after getting a discount on a GOTY/Directors Cut/remaster version because you owned the original.
     
  16. seanreisk

    seanreisk Gawd

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    This made me smile.
     
  17. Shoganai

    Shoganai Limp Gawd

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  18. emphy

    emphy Limp Gawd

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    Possibly, it isn't. However, very few people are ready to take on a multi-billion corporation to test this in court. Not only because of the financial risk, but also because of the time, possible negative publicity, and general damage to one's mental state.
     
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  19. viscountalpha

    viscountalpha 2[H]4U

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    Break a deal, face the wheel.
     
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  20. MV75

    MV75 [H]ard|Gawd

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    EA didn't delete anything, win10 just updated and deleted some random shit which just happened to be his origin library.
     
  21. Vader1975

    Vader1975 Gawd

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    I can't understand why you would see the letters NDA and not assume oh I can't share this. I am in this myself and never even considered sharing any part of it.
     
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  22. Budzman

    Budzman [H]ard|Gawd

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    His own fault. No sympathy even though it's pretty harsh, you got to set an example because people think rules don't apply to them.
     
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  23. DukenukemX

    DukenukemX [H]ardness Supreme

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    This made me laugh. Though I kinda believe it too knowing Windows.
     
  24. LigTasm

    LigTasm [H]ardness Supreme

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    You guys whining about EA taking away his games, EA took away one of mine just for installing it too many times. I lost my Crysis game because I was using it to bench computers and it automatically locked me out after 20 installs or something like that, they said I'd have to buy it again if I wanted it back.
     
  25. percydaman

    percydaman Limp Gawd

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    Funny how people think that just because a company wrote a TOS or EULA, that it must be automatically legal just because somebody clicked accept. That's not how the law works. You can't enter into an illegal contract by law. Also, nowhere in the NDA does it say that EA will remove things you have already purchased. You have rights as a consumer, even if you sign some document created by a company for the sole benefit of the company. Companies create these knowing full well that certain parts of them are incredibly iffy when it comes to legality. But you would have to sue them to challenge it.

    Having said all that: EA is within their rights to sue for breach of the NDA. And this idiot would deserve it.
     
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  26. percydaman

    percydaman Limp Gawd

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    What kind of dipshit logic is this? Because EA fucked you over, everybody should get fucked?
     
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  27. Pitbull#2

    Pitbull#2 Limp Gawd

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    Im on the Xbox one Alph and I like all my games enough NOT to do something stupid .Espec when you sign-the waiver that you wont do that lol.
     
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  28. Trepidati0n

    Trepidati0n [H]ardForum Junkie

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    His entire account was anthem....so they wiped 1 game. Nerd rage...
     
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  29. LigTasm

    LigTasm [H]ardness Supreme

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    The same kind of dipshit logic that reads what I wrote and thinks saying some crap like this is smart, apparently.
     
  30. DejaWiz

    DejaWiz Oracle of Unfortunate Truths

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    Banning and/or wiping out an online account has been common practice for pre-released software ToS/NDA violations since the dawn of the digital download service.

    It is, at its simplest form, a two step process:

    Step 1: actually *READ* the EULA, ToS, Privacy Policy, and NDA.
    Step 2: if agreed to, then *DON'T* violate them.
     
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  31. Oldmodder

    Oldmodder Gawd

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  32. bugleyman

    bugleyman [H]ard|Gawd

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    I think I'd be very careful about concluding that because something happens often it is legal. YMMV.
     
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  33. Anemone

    Anemone Gawd

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    Problem is if you put up a legal fight to restore your lost software, they counter with a prosecutable violation of NDA, for which they could seek damages. The correct legal process is to resolve both these claims for the proper outcome. In this case probably the user got the better deal, financially.
     
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  34. PhaseNoise

    PhaseNoise [H]ard|Gawd

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    I know we're off on the issue of "what do you really own", but I'm still stuck on "why do people think contracts or laws do not apply to them".

    Really this penalty is a pretty damn soft introduction to the concept of a legal agreement. The others later in this persons life will probably not have such lenient escape clauses.
     
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  35. Grimlaking

    Grimlaking 2[H]4U

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    Ah but here is the rub. Actually it's kind of two rubs here. Any more and he'd be finished... getit.. ahhh nevermind.

    1. He didn't own any of the content in his Origin account. All he had was a license to download and play said content that he paid for.

    2. I haven't read the NDA nor have I actually read the agreement for using the Origin service... but I'm betting it's pretty damn tight on what you can and can't do with it as well. Meaning the ability to revoke access to the games and such.

    In order to combat this it would combat a lot of IP law that software vendors have relied on for a long time. And I'm betting to Mr Alpha tester that broke the NDA, and others so denied access to content they paid to access... the legal fees just haven't been worth it.

    In essence it's going to need a solid team of lawyers to go through the NDA's from the first agreed to, all th way to the most current that a specific user has agreed to. ALSO that EA can prove the user agreed to. (that part won't be too hard.) And in essence a lot of money and time. And that's just for the investigation part of the lawsuit. Next they need to actually PROVE they have a case before they can file suit.

    All in all someone needs to loose access that either has money to burn, or free lawyers, or OR, is a lawyer and has some cash to burn but KNOWS they can win and make that back + damages.

    IE it's going to take someone with deep pockets and legal knowledge of this happening to, that ALSO is a gamer (guessing on that part) that has a hate on for EA. (I think is a gamer covers that part.)
     
  36. PeaKr

    PeaKr Gawd

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    Maybe ea should pay employees to do its own alpha testing to avoid negative publicity, oh wait that would cut into their bonus.
     
  37. Delicieuxz

    Delicieuxz Gawd

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    A software license is a property, and it's the right to use an IP via a non-reproduceable instance of the IP which is what is licensed:


     
  38. DPI

    DPI Nitpick Police

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    This bait has already been debunked.

    The mistake EA made was not understanding that gaming culture has devolved to a collective FortNite 9 year old's brain. The drama-queening of this streamer and subsequent regurgitating of this FUD by every gaming blog and forum is mental.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2018
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  39. Dregan73

    Dregan73 Limp Gawd

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    there is no evidence they deleted his library he never showed he had any other games installed prior, for all we know the alpha was the only thing he had
     
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  40. ArFLaserBear

    ArFLaserBear n00b

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    Shocking... I got in to the alpha and as expected bunch of connection issues but what made me stop trying: it was boring and annoyingly couldn't get the controls to feel "right" not even starting on menu/selecting things.

    But in total so NOT worth getting banned for.