Another Kickstarter Game Bites The Dust?

Do contributors have any recourse when someone just bails with their contributions on Kickstarter or its it all on the honor system? Some of the dumb things people create Kickstarters for is off-putting to me so I don't really follow it. Don't get me wrong there are some wonderful ideas by people really attempting to make something that the public wants but it just seems risky to contribute, particularly into game development when these type of things keep happening.
 
Tgrove said:
Show me where this information is proven without a shadow of a doubt, then it will be a joke. Otherwise don't bother responding.
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Earliest human-like fossils discovered are about 200,000 years old (and wouldn't resemble modern day humans that much)

Based on the fossil record the last dinosaurs went extinct approximately 65 million years ago.

Carbon dating makes this pretty much a guaranteed certainty, unless someone went around and his all the hu.an fossils from before 200,000 years ago and all the dinosaur fossils younger than 65 million years old.

There is really no debate on this issue. It is paleontological fact.
 
masterosok said:
Do contributors have any recourse when someone just bails with their contributions on Kickstarter or its it all on the honor system? Some of the dumb things people create Kickstarters for is off-putting to me so I don't really follow it. Don't get me wrong there are some wonderful ideas by people really attempting to make something that the public wants but it just seems risky to contribute, particularly into game development when these type of things keep happening.
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I'd imagine a kick starter is treated like some sort of investment, and as such is governed by SEC rules, but I don't think the legal framework here is completely established yet, and the SEC has gotten around to figuring out how to regulate it.

You'd probably have to take a civil case to court yourself to have any recourse, and very few people will do that over a sub $50 investmebt., due to the legal costs involved
 
Zarathustra[H];1041437118 said:
That and most startups fail. Plain and simple fact.
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While mismanagement and underestimating workloads are absolutely a threat, this in itself isn't quite an apples to apples comparison. Most startups need to make an ongoing profit and be sustainable in order to not fail. A kickstarter project just needs to make ONE product in order to be considered a success, even if the company fails later on.
 
Zarathustra[H];1041437141 said:
... unless someone went around and his all the hu.an fossils from before 200,000 years ago and all the dinosaur fossils younger than 65 million years old.
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fc2fca5cc8833d35c92822a6af386914480a4e7c2411a6329d9742eb6bc89110.jpg
 
Zarathustra[H];1041437141 said:
Earliest human-like fossils discovered are about 200,000 years old (and wouldn't resemble modern day humans that much)

Based on the fossil record the last dinosaurs went extinct approximately 65 million years ago.

Carbon dating makes this pretty much a guaranteed certainty, unless someone went around and his all the hu.an fossils from before 200,000 years ago and all the dinosaur fossils younger than 65 million years old.

There is really no debate on this issue. It is paleontological fact.
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Hey, the right to believe any old random totally-inaccurate thing you want is enshrined in the US constitution (First amendment).
 
david_ said:
Kickstarter "investors" = Donators
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This here, don't donate if you can't afford to. I don't have a problem with Kickstarter, as long as you understand what you're getting into -- a chance to help boost a project's success rate, but with no guarantee. As long as an acceptable rate of KS items come to fruition, carry on.
 
Tgrove said:
Show me where this information is proven without a shadow of a doubt, then it will be a joke. Otherwise don't bother responding.
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The level of ignorance and denial some humans are capable of never ceases to astound me.
 
Parja said:
"A studio", or just some guy who seems to have some vague experience in the gaming industry and clearly was in way over his head from the start?
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Exactly.

Just because a bunch of guys had a pretty cool idea doesn't mean they're capable of executing on it.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
The level of ignorance and denial some humans are capable of never ceases to astound me.
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Yeah, I'm honestly kind of confused by the dinosaurs v. humans timeline subchat going on here. I thought people were making jokes, then somebody was pretending to take it seriously, then wait a minute, are people actually debating this legitimately...? I mean holy shit, are there existence of Santa Claus "debates" here around Christmas time too?
 
Hey, there's a difference.

Dinosaurs are obviously fake, while evidence of Santa Claus abounds.

Get your facts straight, buddy.



;)
 
I am always careful before I commit my KS donation to a small team or a project that looks too good to be true. The ones I have supported are making good progress but they were being done by professional development teams (Grim Dawn, Pillars of Eternity, Torment). Their schedules didn't hit the original goals (not unreasonable with most large projects) but they have made steady progress and engaged with their community. It is far too easy for hubris and inexperience to get an inexperienced developer or team out of their depth (as others have noted).
 
Bad idea for a game anyway. What someone really needs to do is make a dinosaur survival game where you play a dinosaur thrown out of time and into the human world, where you have to survive and find your way back to your own time. You'd play through several different ages on different continents, for example, like the Roman Empire, ancient Egypt, up to the modern day - whatever would be fun and interesting - with each portal taking you from one age to the next until you finally get home. All the time you'd have to avoid being caught or killed by humans, finding food (which shouldn't be too hard since you can ambush and eat humans), etc. It would be a combination of stealth and carnage.

There, now somebody go make this game.
 
My wife bought copies for herself and me last summer. Was pretty fun for a while, and then got bored due to lack of updates after a month or 2. I started following what was going on in their forums to see if there were any updates planned by the dev...and there were a TON of pissed off people due to the main dude not communicating anything. No progress updates, barely any communication with the other people working on the project at all, etc.

Sucks to hear - looked like could have been a fun game. Guess I'll have to look into Beasts of Prey.
 
[QUOTE='Zarathustra[H];1041437141'
Based on the fossil record the last dinosaurs went extinct approximately 65 million years ago.[/QUOTE]
According to the fossil record, the Coelacanth went extinct 66 million years ago.

Carbon dating makes this pretty much a guaranteed certainty, unless someone went around and his all the hu.an fossils from before 200,000 years ago and all the dinosaur fossils younger than 65 million years old.
Click to expand...

Carbon dating is based on the rate of radioactive decay being unchangeable, which isn't true, and based on the rate of cosmic rays hitting the earth also being a constant, which also isn't true.

There is really no debate on this issue. It is paleontological fact.
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There's no debate because it's a belief, and those that believe it don't won't to debate it.

Fact? How is something based on a very incomplete fossil record, and inaccurate measurements a fact? It's a belief, not a fact. You just have so much faith in it, you won't question it.
 
Zarathustra[H];1041437143 said:
I'd imagine a kick starter is treated like some sort of investment, and as such is governed by SEC rules, but I don't think the legal framework here is completely established yet, and the SEC has gotten around to figuring out how to regulate it.

You'd probably have to take a civil case to court yourself to have any recourse, and very few people will do that over a sub $50 investmebt., due to the legal costs involved
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Not sure that it exactly fall under anything doing with SEC as an invest earns you some type of possible return. In this case you are giving somebody money to use for a certain task and they are offering to give you something in return. Which doesn't even have to be directly related to the actual product.

There also is a very gray area of, they are promising to do the very best they can to reach their goal and then to make it up to their backers if they fail. How do you prove somebody didn't try 100%?

So yeah, you might be able to take them to civil court, but as you said the cost makes it unlikely most would bother trying.
 
BladeVenom said:
According to the fossil record, the Coelacanth went extinct 66 million years ago.



Carbon dating is based on the rate of radioactive decay being unchangeable, which isn't true, and based on the rate of cosmic rays hitting the earth also being a constant, which also isn't true.


There's no debate because it's a belief, and those that believe it don't won't to debate it.

Fact? How is something based on a very incomplete fossil record, and inaccurate measurements a fact? It's a belief, not a fact. You just have so much faith in it, you won't question it.
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No, there is no debate because it is a fact. Evidently you haven't kept up with science but the fossil records have very few "holes" and carbon dating is far from the only method though he has been proven to be exceedingly accurate. The only ones even attempting to argue this at this point are so uneducated about the matter it is astounding. Also trying to use a fish as an example of failures in the fossil record is extremely misleading. We still have very little of the ocean explored, which is the only reason we thought those went extinct. However landmass is another story as we have eliminated any possibility of giant dinosaurs walking around with humans. Again your lack of education is on full display here. Please don't bring creationist garbage into this thread. Faith has absolutely No place in Science.
 
RadXge said:
Humans were not around when dinosaurs dominated the earth.
If you want to make a successful video game, get your facts straight and do not contribute to the Creationism propaganda.
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You have a right to your opinion, and I respect that, but I have to say, that the creationism/Christian/God/religion bashing on this forum is really too much. :(
None of us were there, so we really don't know for sure; the argument could go either way, honestly, so why not read between the lines. ;)

As for the devs of this game, they can eat it.
Too many let-downs have happened as of late with these, it really is dissappointing.
 
Red Falcon said:
You have a right to your opinion, and I respect that, but I have to say, that the creationism/Christian/God/religion bashing on this forum is really too much. :(
None of us were there, so we really don't know for sure; the argument could go either way, honestly, so why not read between the lines. ;)

As for the devs of this game, they can eat it.
Too many let-downs have happened as of late with these, it really is dissappointing.
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honestly at this rate I think bigger news would actually be if a game backed by any type of crowd funding actually succeeded. Which how it is now and most being like this it is about like reporting that the sun rose this morning to report that one didn't actually come to be anything.
 
Red Falcon said:
You have a right to your opinion, and I respect that, but I have to say, that the creationism/Christian/God/religion bashing on this forum is really too much. :(
None of us were there, so we really don't know for sure; the argument could go either way, honestly, so why not read between the lines. ;)
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Maybe if Christians, Creationists, and other religious fanatics were not constantly bashing everyone else, constantly trying to brainwash children, constantly trying to uphold existing injustices and start/spread new ones, perhaps there would not be so many people bashing them. No one knows the origin of the world we live in, and it is possible no one ever will. Maybe there is a God or something on the same level, maybe there is not. There is no evidence either way, and there may never be any. BUT...there IS overwhelming evidence organized religion, and its various branches with their various texts and self-proclaimed prophets of the past, IS false. God (or anything like it) is a vague concept, but organized religion is written on paper and the actions of its members recorded, and all of that ends up being evidence.

There is no longer any debate based on facts/logic about whether all those old texts are true. They've been logically/factually dis-proven at every turn. But hey, if people want to believe in fairy tales without actually interfering with others, well go ahead. But they (most of them anyway) DO act on them, they DO condemn others for not believing in the fairy tales, they DO commit immoral acts against others, either directly or by supporting others that do, in the name of their fairy tales, they DO brainwash their children to be unquestioning and incapable of critical/independent thinking without allowing their children to choose their own beliefs, they DO .attempt to forcefully spread their propaganda to others' children while attempting to silence any opposition or dissent. And they have and continue to do all that more than the opposition/non-religious.

And for the record, it is becoming increasingly concerning how radical atheists (not agnostics) are becoming. While many of the religious chant, "all man-made suffering is righteous because it is God's will" a rapidly growing portion of atheists are chanting, "all man-made suffering is natural, because morality necessitates a God which does not exist." As religion declines globally (except Islam, which is growing, along with its most radical elements), it seems one evil is being replaced by another.

Anyway, this rejection of logic/facts is getting ridiculous. Now everyone has to "be there" in order to know what happened? I say World War 2 never happened...I wasn't alive then.
 
Red Falcon said:
You have a right to your opinion, and I respect that, but I have to say, that the creationism/Christian/God/religion bashing on this forum is really too much. :(
None of us were there, so we really don't know for sure; the argument could go either way, honestly, so why not read between the lines. ;)

As for the devs of this game, they can eat it.
Too many let-downs have happened as of late with these, it really is dissappointing.
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I fully respect religion.

The realm of religion is explaining that which is unknown. The deeper meanings of life, what happens after (or before) etc. etc.

That being said, whenever there is a conflict between religious dogma and scientific evidence, science wins 100% of time.

Buddhism deals with this much better than any of the other world religions:

dalai-lama-if-science-proves-some-belief-of-buddhism-wrong-then-buddhism-will-have-to-change.jpg


Holding on to a disproven aspect of religious belief in the face of overwhelming scientific evidence is just beyond idiotic.
 
Red Falcon said:
None of us were there
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Greatest reasoning ever.... :rolleyes:

None of us were there for the moon landing. It might not have happened.

None of us were there for WWII, and the holocaust. They might not have happened.

None of us were there for the signing of the declaration of independence. It might not have happened...
 
humans co existing with dinosaurs? really? Even if you toss out all the scientific evidence to the contrary, you are still left with one glaring problem: we can't even defend ourselves against large wild cats / dogs without modern firearms, how the fuck would humans not have been hunted to extinction by dinosaurs?

what.. did our primitive ancestors have .50 cal sitting around their caves?
 
Zarathustra[H];1041438770 said:
Greatest reasoning ever.... :rolleyes:

None of us were there for the moon landing. It might not have happened.

None of us were there for WWII, and the holocaust. They might not have happened.

None of us were there for the signing of the declaration of independence. It might not have happened...
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#rekt
 
I don't understand why science and religion can't co-exist. To me, Religion offers the "why" and Science offers the "how". In my opinion, if there appears to be any gap or discrepancy between the two, it's likely to be the fault of our current understanding rather than the outright error of either side. Both sides can, in my mind, co-exist and benefit from one another. However, we're too concerned with "who's right" and "who's wrong" these days, to the point where a meaningful discussion between individuals on both sides is getting more rare by the day.
 
A thread about kickstarter failures has turned into a religious debate about creationism and when humans first appeared. This is a new low for [H].

As for the topic. The answer is simple, creative people have ZERO clue about running a business just like most of the PC gamers who demand niche games. These guys throw an idea up that pander to the small elite PC gaming market and then realize it takes much more and goes broke.

You need business people and creative people to make the gaming industry work. If [H] was in charge there would not be a gaming industry to speak of. AAA games that PC gamers want take millions to make and then they want to wait until it is on sale for $5. Yeah, don't play major companies for thinking of us as after thoughts. We spend thousands on hardware and want games for almost free because "PC gaming master race".

Best example is Star Citizen, that guy wants to pander to a niche game type and PC enthusiast. It is suffering from huge feature creep and when start the game was supposed to be fully out in 2015, now a "piece" of it might high 4th qtr.
 
Zarathustra[H];1041438770 said:
Greatest reasoning ever.... :rolleyes:

None of us were there for the moon landing. It might not have happened.

None of us were there for WWII, and the holocaust. They might not have happened.

None of us were there for the signing of the declaration of independence. It might not have happened...
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The difference being that all of those particular events happened within the timeframe of human recorded history.

Let's single out the Theory of Evolution as an example for further, limited, analysis: it is a scientific theory, which is essentially the best conclusion that we can draw from the evidence available. Scientific theories have changed over time. They are theories, not facts. Facts require observation.

Personally, I find the theory of evolution to be a satisfactory explanation of the development of life as we know it on this planet. However, I was not there when a collection of chemicals came together to form the first single-celled organism, which evolved over hundreds of millions or billions of years to where we are today, therefore I cannot claim it as fact that this evolution is what happened. Given the observable facts like fossilized remains, genetic and physiological similarities between different species of organisms, etc. the theory of evolution is a logical conclusion.

In my opinion, if there appears to be any gap or discrepancy between the two, it's likely to be the fault of our current understanding rather than the outright error of either side.
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This is a very eloquent statement and I concur.
 
MrCaffeineX said:
Let's single out the Theory of Evolution as an example for further, limited, analysis: it is a scientific theory, which is essentially the best conclusion that we can draw from the evidence available. Scientific theories have changed over time. They are theories, not facts. Facts require observation.

Personally, I find the theory of evolution to be a satisfactory explanation of the development of life as we know it on this planet. However, I was not there when a collection of chemicals came together to form the first single-celled organism, which evolved over hundreds of millions or billions of years to where we are today, therefore I cannot claim it as fact that this evolution is what happened. Given the observable facts like fossilized remains, genetic and physiological similarities between different species of organisms, etc. the theory of evolution is a logical conclusion.
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You are certainly correct that Scientific paradigms evolve with the times.

That being said, ANY statement based on observable empirical evidence should always drown out ANY statement based on gut feeling or religious belief.

No exceptions.

Empiricism trumps EVERYTHING and should be what governs EVERYTHING.

A statement based on empiricism COULD be flawed based on incorrect analysis, but at least it stands on SOMETHING.
 
lol, all of this because some kick starter about dinosaurs and men failed. was it supposed to be a historical game or a flintstones spin off?
 
I believe in God, Jesus Christ, and good and evil.
I have seen evidence for all of these existing just in my lifetime, and I'm not talking about speaking in tongues or any nonsense like that.

I've seen evil, pure evil, and not through a living being (though to be fair, humans can be pretty awful).
Therefore, since I know pure evil exists, logically, pure good must exist.

One cannot have light without darkness.

ghost_popt10011.jpg


^ I can't wait for the day you all encounter something like this, just as I have.
Then you will know the meaning of pure evil, and hopefully, you all will walk away sane and with better character.
 
Red Falcon said:
I believe in God, Jesus Christ, and good and evil.
I have seen evidence for all of these existing just in my lifetime, and I'm not talking about speaking in tongues or any nonsense like that.

I've seen evil, pure evil, and not through a living being (though to be fair, humans can be pretty awful).
Therefore, since I know pure evil exists, logically, pure good must exist.

One cannot have light without darkness.

ghost_popt10011.jpg


^ I can't wait for the day you all encounter something like this, just as I have.
Then you will know the meaning of pure evil, and hopefully, you all will walk away sane and with better character.
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tell your story, if you've got one.
 
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