Anonymous Wades into the Gaza Conflict

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by MajorDomo, Nov 17, 2012.

  1. Max Mike

    Max Mike Limp Gawd

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    There are no moderates in Hamas only a naive chump or fellow traveler would pretend there are. Hamas's stated goal is the destruction of Israel, that is the fabric of their existence, well that and returning the whole are to the medieval era. Hamas is a organization that terrorize its own people in Gaza.

    Hamas can have peace anytime they want it... but then they do not want it.
     
  2. Deadly Ramon

    Deadly Ramon Gawd

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  3. Phoenix333

    Phoenix333 2[H]4U

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    If Israel's neighbors lay down their arms, there will be no war in the middle east. If Israel lays down its arms, there will be no Israel. As for the whole "Palestinian" issue, Trans-Jordan was going to be the so-called Palestinian State everyone's been talking about. All the modern "Palestinians" are ethnically Egyptians or Jordanians - Egyptians in Gaza, Jordanians or more properly Hashemites on the West Bank. Jordan and Egypt would not let them across the border back into these countries after Israel survived the 1948 invasion. The refugee problem was created by Egypt and Jordan - not by Israel. Egypt and Jordan have kept these people in squalor because they're a political wedge they can use to pressure Israel and the international community. Israel withdrew from the Gaza strip entirely and allowed the people there to self-govern. They chose to elect Hamas, a terrorist group whose charter statement is to destroy Israel. Fatah was the so-called "moderate" group when compared to Hamas, but Arafat and his PLO was a terrorist group from the beginning. "Moderate" is a stretch of a term even there. Hamas has never been and will never be moderate. Instead of choosing jobs, schools, and hospitals, the people of Gaza chose rockets and AK-47's.

    So many people are ignorant of history because they did not live during these times, and have only the skewed, modern version that has been rewritten. You people need to question what you've been taught. Go back and look at the Balfour declaration of what the area known as Palestine was supposed to be, and what it became. Prior to the creation of Israel and Jordan, the entire region was controlled by the Ottoman Empire. There was no land called "Palestine" under Ottoman rule. Everyone wants to blame Israel for everything, when the Israelis simply want to exist without having to worry about Iran, Egypt, Syria, Jordan, and Lebanon trying to wipe them off the map, as Ahmadinejad has publicly declared he wants to do on countless occasions, and as all of these nations have tried to do in the past on numerous occasions since 1948. You want to know the truth of Israel's history, and the history of that region? Go find people that are still alive that were alive during this time that remember it. Talk to them. Ask them. You'll find the modern history books and what they're brainwashing people with in schools and universities and the news media is completely wrong. If you're not willing to question what you've been taught and just buy into this crap then you're fools.

    As for Anonymous... they're picking the wrong fight. They think they're the hacker elite? I suppose they forgot about Stuxnet. If the Mossad decides Anon needs to go down they're going to wonder what hit them, and they'll never see it coming. Go ahead and commit a suicidal attack, Anon. You're not doing anything the terrorists haven't been doing already.
     
  4. Fooshnik

    Fooshnik 2[H]4U

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    The only reason Anon is doing this is because they don't have cars and therefore cannot suffer from "car trouble".
     
  5. damicatz

    damicatz 2[H]4U

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    Israel isn't content to let them exist and you know it.

    This is a stupid religious holy war (really, all religious wars are, by definition, stupid since it is all made up nonsense anyway) that has been going on for millenia and both sides hate each other's guts. Which is precisely why the United States should NOT be involved in it because it only makes us a target.

    Mossad is the Israeli version of Al Queda. Like Al Queda, they are a group of cowards who prefer to murder and terrorize in secret rather than to confront their enemies head on. Like Al Queda, The Mossad terrorists have no regard for human life and no regard for any innocents who happen to get caught in the crossfire of their stupid holy war.
     
  6. kbrickley

    kbrickley [H]ardness Supreme

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    I think the difference is that if the Arab and Muslim countries would acknowledge Israel's right to exist this war would be over ... they originally attacked Israel, not the other way around ... and they won't back off on the existence question ... I was researching the Basel Convention the other day for work and I noticed that Saudi Arabia put a clause on their signature of that document that their signing it with Israel isn't an acknowledgement of Israel's right to exist or validity as a state ... for good or bad the US has supported Israel as the ONLY democracy in the Middle East ... kind of hard to walk away from them and leave them at the mercies of the monarchies and theocracies arrayed against them ;)
     
  7. Scythe5

    Scythe5 Limp Gawd

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    Anonymous....Hmm, wonder what it's like to be a hacker with the Mossad on your ass? Guess some of 'em may find out.
     
  8. Tudz

    Tudz [H]ardness Supreme

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    It'd be pretty retarded to confront your enemies head on when your enemies have massive military resources.
     
  9. damicatz

    damicatz 2[H]4U

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    Israel is a democracy the same way as the US was when blacks and women weren't allowed to vote. Not that it matters; you won't win me over that way anyways because I think that democracy is as lousy a form of government as any other (the tyranny of the majority can hardly said to be better than the tyranny of a religious zealot or the tyranny of a despot; especially when the majority ARE in fact a bunch of religious zealots).

    States have no "rights". People have rights, not governments. Land ownership, by necessity, derives from homesteading (the transformation of the land, in its natural state, to something different such as building a house on it). Either the original homesteader, the homesteader's descendants or the people who acquired the property legitimately, by contract, from the original homesteaders or their descendants would have legitimate claim to any given piece of land.

    If a piece of land can be traced back to a Jewish owner (and they acquired that land legitimately through homesteading or contract), then that land would belong to them. Similarly, if a piece of land can be traced back to an Arab owner, that land would belong to them. In the event that it cannot be ascertained (e.g. no historical record of the original homesteader), then the land would fall to the first person historically recorded to have possessed it, absent any historical evidence of illegitimacy (such as conquest or other forms of theft or violence).

    Normally, this is not a difficult concept. Unfortunately, both sides believe in a bunch of absolute nonsense and, rather than act rationally and try to find out who owns what land through natural law, they would rather use their books of myths to try and determine that even though they have no basis in reality. The Bible is not a legitimate historical record (Hebrew or otherwise). The Quran is not a legitimate historical record. Using them to determine land ownership is as absurd as using a Harry Potter book to do the same. What is now Israel has been controlled by at least half a dozen different empires over actual, recorded history (e.g. not religious texts).
     
  10. Dzero

    Dzero Limp Gawd

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    What's with Anonymous lately? Jeez, they sure are picking some lame campaigns. Or maybe they got hacked and it's really Iran pretending to be them. Hell if I know but they're starting to make Greenpeace look like geniuses. At least Greenpeace takes donations.
     
  11. dyzophoria

    dyzophoria Gawd

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    i LOL'd at wrath of Anonymous , so script kiddies now think they are good than anyone huh, let's see how Anonymous these kiddies are :D
     
  12. g0lden

    g0lden [H]Lite

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    I hope they hack the Iron Dome and use it to attack Israeli targets instead. LOL that would be hilarious.
     
  13. cyclone3d

    cyclone3d [H]ardForum Junkie

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    really... are you a Muslim? :mad:

    Do you think that Israel should be wiped off the face of the earth like all the terrorist groups?

    From your statement, you might as well say you are a terrorist or are associated by the terrorists.
     
  14. motomonkey

    motomonkey [H]ard|Gawd

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    You mean the part where the British Mandate in Palestine cut the county up into penny parcels designed to please no one, all the while knowing that the Arab armies next door were planning to overrun the jewish settlements the moment the British army withdrew? Army armies trained by the British, btw. not that it did much good.

    Or the part where the predecessors of the Mossad and IDF army intel fought a guerrilla war against the fathers of Hamas, PLO, etc? who were busy playing the same old game of killing Jews when the chance arose.


    Or Perhaps the part where Jews fed up with being treated like crap in europe, Genocide and all that, decided to settle in a land that was taken from the, a couple thousand years ago, and the the current residents didn't care much for it?

    Yeah, read that book. :rolleyes:
     
  15. sanitystealer

    sanitystealer Limp Gawd

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    Mothereffin QFT
     
  16. Tudz

    Tudz [H]ardness Supreme

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    Natural law? It doesn't seem overly natural to me given the amount of people living in land they've taken by force from others.

    The more "natural" thing is that whoever can hold the land keeps the land until they can't hold it anymore. It's so natural that it's what many territorial animals do as well.

    But I am intrigued, how does this natural law of yours work in the case where there can be no "person historically recorded to have possessed it, absent any historical evidence of illegitimacy" to be found on record and/or when the persons currently living there are living there "illegitimately" but now have no other place to go back to?
     
  17. MajGHOB

    MajGHOB [H]Lite

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    The reason why the Israelis are attacking is for the upcoming elections. Netanyahu wants to look tough in front of his electorate. Classic "wag the dog" move. It's good to see there are some people out there willing to stand up to bullies like Netanyahu.
     
  18. investinwaffles

    investinwaffles Limp Gawd

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    From this statement, you know you are admitting to going full retard - right?
    :rolleyes:


    I agree on the fact that both sides are acting like a bunch of fucking children. Israel does try to provoke shit, but Hamas does as well (but a superior nation is supposed to take the high-road, no?).
    But Israel takes things way too far - then tries to act innocent. Provoking Hamas publicly via twitter and media, then acting surprised when they retaliate is just asinine.

    Also, I will say that tons of political tensions come from Israel's overly aggressive interdiction in the region. For example, the fact that they have maintained a nuclear monopoly and actively violated state sovereignty to prevent other states from obtaining nuclear weapons (Iraq, syria) has caused other Arab states such as Iran to be extremely fearful and try to match Israel's deterrence, which is just natural of ALL international relations.

    Only region in the world that has maintained a nuclear monopoly since the late 60's IIRC
     
  19. Bamboo

    Bamboo Gawd

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    fixed4u;)
     
  20. MajGHOB

    MajGHOB [H]Lite

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    I think you may want to catch up on your geography. There are three none-Arab states in the middle east: Turkey, Israel and Iran; and during much of the cold war these three states were allied with the US and each other.

    Iran broke away from that alliance in 1979, during its revolution, and the embassy hostage crisis. Turkey broke away from its alliance with Israel in 2008, after the first invasion of Gaza by Israel. Turkey and Israel are still both closely allied with the US, but not with each other at this point in time. In fact their governments remain very hostile to one another, due to Turkey's and Iran's support for Hamas and the Palestinians living under siege in Gaza.
     
  21. motomonkey

    motomonkey [H]ard|Gawd

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    Glad I wasn't the only one to catch that, call A Turk an Arab, and your likely to get cut...:eek:
     
  22. SDplus

    SDplus Limp Gawd

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    Unscathed? Did they for example think they actually accomplished anything at all in the ├╝ber attack against Sweden? We never noticed anything. We might have if they actually had any information about where to strike and with what. That they didn't pretty much proves they have no idea about how you could make cyber-attacks that actually damages. Or, just as likely, they wouldn't want to do that as it would mean real consequences.
     
  23. Phoenix333

    Phoenix333 2[H]4U

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    Then why don't they just nuke them and be done with it? They have a "nuclear monopoly" after all, as waffles said. Why do they tolerate rocket attack after rocket attack, suicide bombing after suicide bombing, for decades, and still hold peace talks that the Palestinians have repeatedly sabotaged? Look at every peace accord since Camp David. Israel upheld every point of every peace agreement, and still it is never enough. Still Israel can do nothing right. Still, Israel must make concession after concession, and the rockets continue to fall. When does it end? It ends whenever Israel's neighbors want it to end. If Israel wanted to end it violently they could have already done so. Israel has never threatened annihilation publicly to any of its neighbors. Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, the Muslim Brotherhood - all have stated publicly their goal to destroy Israel. What other country in the world exists under the constant threat of hostile neighbors like this? Insult a Jew and he'll probably be upset and go on with his life. Insult his God in front of him and the same will happen. Insult Mohammad in front of one of Israel's enemies and you'll be dead before you can apologize. Yet... Israel is the one that isn't content to let people live.

    Tell me, historically, since the Roman Empire conquered Judea, when have Jews ever been a military threat to anyone's continued existence as a people? The Jews have been threatened with genocide time and time again. Maybe you don't realize that there are Israeli Arabs that have full citizenship rights? Those are the non-Jewish settlers that did not try to flee the country during the 1948 war, but stayed and fought alongside their Jewish comrades. They have no trouble coexisting with the Jewish population. Don't believe me? Take a trip to Israel some time. Talk to the people there, Jew and Arab alike, that are citizens. See what it's really like over there. Maybe you'll learn something IF you're willing to open your eyes, and have the courage to go.
     
  24. motomonkey

    motomonkey [H]ard|Gawd

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    QFT.
     
  25. kbrickley

    kbrickley [H]ardness Supreme

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    Well, military occupation (whether it is by a collection of individuals or a state) is a valid form of ownership (Darwin's Law ... it's a bitch :) ) or you would have turn wide swaths of America back to the more Native Americans ... I use the classifier "more" since no one in America can claim ownership before about 30,000 BC (it all belonged to the animals before then) :D

    The Palestinians had no problems selling their land to the Jews after WW2 when the Jews were wanting to escape from Europe after the genocide perpetrated on them by the Europeans ... they just objected when the Jews actually moved in and took possession ... the Arab states surrounding Israel had no problem invading them multiple times but then trying to reclaim their lost territory after each failed invasion ... although Israel is not completely blameless in their dealings with the Palestinians and other Arabs, those countries are even worse (especially considering that they have never had to endure a systematic genocide like that the Jews survived)

    Personally, I tend to agree with one of my friends on the Middle East ... he said, "It is like three people (Christians, Muslims, Jews) all reading the same book and fighting over the Appendix" ... I long for the day, I suspect far into the future, when humanity can look at ourselves as a single species united together in a hostile universe rather than a collection of individual nation states and races in Darwinian competition with each other ... however, we will not reach that state in my lifetime or the lifetime of anyone alive today :cool:
     
  26. dgz

    dgz [H]ardness Supreme

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    More like war criminals. Jews are not your typical morons. Zionist country needs to burn.
     
  27. Deadly Ramon

    Deadly Ramon Gawd

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    You don't think it's asinine (or going full retard) to launch rockets into a country merely because they "provoked" you through Twitter and other media? When was the last time you detonated a lethal explosive against someone who insulted you online?
     
  28. dgz

    dgz [H]ardness Supreme

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    Say what? Do YOU remember the last war about 4-5 years ago, when Israel literally destroyed the entire country of Lebanon over two soldiers. What a crap official story. Talk about asinine on your side, really.
     
  29. motomonkey

    motomonkey [H]ard|Gawd

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    You get molested by a Rabbi or something?

    Funny how it's ok to still be an Anti-semite in this country, but Allah help you if you make a statement like you just did aimed at some of the "Nation of Islam" fanatics. preferably on your way into a voting booth.
     
  30. thesmelliestsock.

    thesmelliestsock. [H]ard|Gawd

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    Very well said.

    I have to say, there are a bunch of misguided fools posting in this thread.
     
  31. Wierdo

    Wierdo [H]ard|Gawd

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    At the end of the day it's not about who's the good guy and who's the bad, it's about occupier and occupied. As long the situation stays like this then no end will be in sight, and honestly it seems like a one-state solution is in the cards longterm because the settlements will make a two-state one unrealistic.

    Of course this reality crashes against the "Jewish state" dogma, so I don't know if there's gonna be a positive end to this for either occupier or occupied.
     
  32. disastronaut

    disastronaut n00b

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    That's an understatement if I've ever heard one. If Israel wants someone dead it's only a matter of time before they "justify" it in some way.
     
  33. Ski

    Ski Gawd

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    I love the idea how some of you naively believe using the nuclear option is a plausible idea let alone a positive one. I'm not even gonna get into the Geo-political suicide this will ultimately create.

    But let's just take a look at the environmental factors involved:

    Nobody truly knows the how man megatons their nuclear arsenal can deliver, let alone how many warheads they have, because Israel doesn't allow the IAEA inspectors to check. So lets just say they do launch one into a neighboring country with say a 400 megaton explosive force. Not only will that land be uninhabitable for a couple million years due to the radioactive contamination, but you also got the fallout reaching into the atmosphere thereby fucking over neighboring countries, including Israel itself. It's called mutual suicide. And to give you an idea how bad 400 megatons is, look up Bikini Atoll and see what only 4-5 megatons is capable of.

    Let those 2 examples marinate in some of your brains for a little bit and see if you gain some new found clarity. I'm tired of seeing geo-political issues arise on the hard forum and seeing the amount of ignorance portrayed here. I've said this a number of times before in the past, a lot of you guys are brilliant when it comes to technical expertise but you know jack shit when it come to foreign social issues and history which it clearly shows with a lot of your posts.

    Until you actual become well informed on these issues, do some real travel around the world, and see first hand what the causes and affects are on different cultures and their reactions, the last thing I would want is some of you guys dictating our foreign policy. I don't have the answer myself, the issue is too complicated to solve even for the best of them, these people been at each others throats for 2000 years, problems like these don't get solved over night. But what I can tell you is this problem will continue to deteriorate and will eventually get the bigger players involved (US and Russia) and when that happens shit's gonna get real soon by then.
     
  34. Stiletto

    Stiletto [H]ardness Supreme

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    /thread

    I despise those who jump on board the Israel-hating bandwagon. They're not a perfect nation or a perfect people, but neither are we. However, anyone who falls for the endless "Muslims as victims as they continually provoke Israel with acts of violence" rhetoric is beyond hope. Everyone in Israel's region either has declared their intent to murder every last Israeli, or is largely run by organizations that have done the same. Hamas, the main group overseeing Gaza, has declared their intent to destroy Israel, yet Israel actually treats them as if they are nothing more than a political opponent. On what planet are you the bully, when you are willing to sit down to peace negotiations with an outfit dedicated to your death?
     
  35. Aluisious

    Aluisious 2[H]4U

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    Start with an asinine assumption and the rest of your post is irrelevant.

    There is no way Israel has that quantity of weaponry. It's common knowledge they have 100-200ish number of weapons, and easily deduced they are in the low-kiloton range. The combined total is a couple of megatons. And they'd never plaster one target with all of them, that just makes zero sense.
     
  36. damicatz

    damicatz 2[H]4U

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    If China came in to the United States, along with the United Nations, and established a Native American Country right in the middle of the United States, how do you think we would react? That is exactly what happened with Israel. The United States and the United Nations engaged in rank nation-building when we had no business doing such to begin with. Things like 9/11 wouldn't happen if we simply minded our own business; stop swatting at the wasp's nest and you won't get stung by wasps (I also find it funny that 9/11 is considered a terrorist attack but the slaughter of over 100,000 Japanese civilians with nuclear weapons is considered an act of heroism. Unlike neocons, I actually find killing innocent people repugnant, no matter the nationality or ethnicity).

    As for the nuclear weapons comment, that is perhaps the stupidest thing I have ever read. Any attempt by Israel to use nuclear weapons would lead to their own destruction because the fallout and the radiation would not be confined to the borders of their neighbors.
     
  37. Ski

    Ski Gawd

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    type on the 400, it was 40.

    Pakistan has nukes of the 40-50 megaton range of that caliber, and their technology was supplied through the Russians. And guess who's technology has been assisting Israel's? The US.

    And the point of my whole post was that I was assuming that Israel would use their nukes is wrong, because I never made they were planning to, it was a hypothetical scenario. The reason why Israel has these nukes just like every other nuclear capable country is because it's used as a defensive measure against their enemies. Take India and Pakistan for example.

    Nearly all the countries in the middle east have a self preservation ideology, and Israel is no exception. Once you understand the history of Israel becoming a state through the UN and their wars with Egypt, Syria, etc, things become more a bit more clear as to their motives. I'm pretty sure the intelligence agencies have a pretty close guess as to the true estimate of how many nukes Israel truly has, hence why they haven't attempted another assault assault on Israel in fear of retaliation.

    And not to go off subject but it appears you need perspective on this issue. Iran is attempting the same thing by trying to get a nuke, because they know without one Israel or the US is going to do a pre-emptive strike on if they continue with nuclear program. It's the only thing that would stop an invasion. Do they plan on using one? We can argue that all day long, but you gotta admit, Israel or anyone else for that matter would think twice about trying invade their country. Why do you think Netanyahu keeps raising his fists lately about at time table to invade Iran before it's too late. Because he knows he can't once they become fully nuclear. And don't get me started about that retarded speech during the UN summit where he used a Wily Coyote cartoon bomb as his case against Iran.

    I can easily go into intimate detail about the US foreign policy and drone warfare, Pakistan's destabilization, Iran's sanctions, Israel's attacks on the Gaza strip and assassination of the Hamas's military commander a few days ago. But rather than go on for 3 pages about facts and history, I'll simply summarize that all of it is very bad and it's leading up to a powder keg that is gonna cause havoc in the next 4-6 years. But I'm pretty sure you've made up your mind where you stand on this issue. So take whatever I say with a grain of salt. Doesn't matter, things are getting worse, and everyone's solution to the problem is the problem in the first place.

    And lastly, so we're clear where I stand on this issue, I'm neutral between the Palestinians and Israeli's. I always look at both sides of the issue and only use evidence and objectivity in order to draw my conclusions. And that's not even easy anymore because the mainstream media is so biased and skewed that it's hard to interpret the facts from the sensationalism anymore. Use your head. Use your critical thinking. Look at history. Then things will make a bit more sense.
     
  38. kbrickley

    kbrickley [H]ardness Supreme

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    Although it is certainly possible that India and Pakistan might keep the large megaton bombs in their arsenal I suspect few other countries do since those type weapons are only useful for attacking large civilian population centers (and usually have limited delivery options since they would need to be large hydrogen bombs). If a country was going to go nuclear (pun intended) they would be much more likely use tactical nukes (smaller warheads that can be used on the battlefield or for small strategic targets or to generate an EMP). Besides, if Israel was looking at total annihilation they would only need 3 nuclear weapons to devastate the Muslims attacking them (one for Mecca, one for Medina, and one for the Temple of the Rock). They would only do that if they were faced with genocide again but the Muslim nations might do well to remember that Israel could destroy their three holiest places with only 3 weapons :eek:
     
  39. dgz

    dgz [H]ardness Supreme

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    I doubt you're in the same country as me.

    But what's actually funny is how you twisted me saying zionist into anti-semite. Troll much? hehe... :)
     
  40. Climber

    Climber [H]ardness Supreme

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    Your analogy is as flawed as your history. I know you feel educated and liberated by your use of neocon, but ignorance is ignorance regardless of your political ideology. :(