Anandtech 5850/5870 review

The “new” member of the Evergreen family is Juniper, a part born out of the fact that Cypress was too big. Juniper is the part that’s going to let AMD compete in the <$200 category that the 4850 was launched in. It’s going to be a cut-down version of Cypress, and we know from AMD’s simulation testing that it’s going to be a 14 SIMD part. We would wager that it’s going to lose some ROPs too. As AMD does not believe they’re particularly bandwidth limited at this time with GDDR5, we wouldn’t be surprised to see a smaller bus too (perhaps 192bit?). Juniper based cards are expected in the November timeframe.
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Juniper is probably what is going to be called the 5700 series of parts.
If it has 14 SIMDs it will have 1120 Stream Processing Unit (the 4850/70/90 had 800 SPU). This is because 5 Stream Processor Unit Equals a Stream Processor with AMD, and AMD groups 16 Stream Processors into a single SIMD. 5*16*14=1120
 
krameriffic said:
Fail. At least try to disguise your bias. I mean, I know it's the internet and the guise of anonymity of tempting, but come on.
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My bad, it's way past my bedtime. All I remembered was the 5870 being the undisputed king of the review, and being able to max out pretty much everything.

Looking back on the [H] review of the 295, it looks like all settings were maxed on Warhead with 4xAA, as opposed to the 5870, which could only do 2xAA. So unless there are major driver differences, then it looks like the 295 wins.

It was an honest mistake, you'll find no bias here (notice I'm running a 280).
 
Look back at the GTX 280 release and how they showed the 9800 GX2 beating the GTX 280 in average FPS and what not...

Truth is, we all know which card performed better in real gameplay experience. Look at the min FPS in [H]'s review of the 5870 vs. other cards and you'll see that in some games, its 2x that of the GTX 285 and at higher settings sometimes no less, which is a pretty important difference
 
Nice card, the 40nm jump had me worried (higher leakage without metal gates), but this card has surpassed all my expectations. They almost doubled 4870 performance without increasing power consumption!

And the prices are a little lower than the $399/299 rumors floating around, I especially like that $250 5850 price tag.
 
THE HD5870 PEFORMS GREAT IN GAMES...I SAID IT PERFORMS GREAT...AND IT'S NOT EVEN THAT MUCH LOUDER THAN 2 x GTX 275's IN SLI...oh wait..yes it is.
 
5850 $259
5870 $379

2x5850 $520
2x5870 $758

Hmmmmm. 2x5850 will also crush the 295 and at the same price point.
Do we have a new 'bargain' performance champ?
 
That's what I'm thinking, assuming similiar scaling to the 5870s, 2x 5850 will essentially get you an Asus Mars and then some at less than half the price. :D
 
As a single card solutions it's awesome...but have to remember for $400 the GTX 275 in SLI still offers much better performance that the HD5870.
 
PlatinumPC said:
As a single card solutions it's awesome...but have to remember for $400 the GTX 275 in SLI still offers much better performance that the HD5870.
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Yep, which is why I'm not really disappointed in my 1-month-old purchase. 5870 is a nice card though.
 
Wow, I'm thoroughly unimpressed with this new offering. It's certainly good if you have a single mid-range card and are looking to upgrade, but there's not a lot here for enthusiasts who already have high end parts.

Case in point: I have two GTX 280s running in SLI right now. From the looks of the reviews, that absolutely destroys a single 5870 in a lot of games. So, if I even want to "upgrade" I'm on the hook for two 5870s. But looking at most games, the justification for CF 5870s isn't there. In one of the few games where it really matters and I could use the frames (Crysis), there isn't even a 10% increase from SLI GTX to 5870 CF. Some games show 20-30% increases but they're games already running at 80+ FPS.

The 5870 is actually a lot like the 4800 series. It kicks ass with non-demanding games, pushing framerates into the stratosphere, but the performance is subpar in games that really need the higher framerates. What I'd really like to see is some ARMA II benchmarks.

Looks like I'll be waiting for Nvidia, and maybe even sitting out if GTX300 SLI can't beat my cards by at least 50% across the board.
 
PlatinumPC said:
As a single card solutions it's awesome...but have to remember for $400 the GTX 275 in SLI still offers much better performance that the HD5870.
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now if only games would actually use SLI and crossfire correctly without having to wait for 10 updates just to fix it then they would be worth it.. but ill stick with single cards until then.. heck they still havent completely fixed SLI/crossfire in either of the crysis games.. ATI and nvidia had to do it them selves..
 
JCDenton said:
Wow, I'm thoroughly unimpressed with this new offering. It's certainly good if you have a single mid-range card and are looking to upgrade, but there's not a lot here for enthusiasts who already have high end parts.

Case in point: I have two GTX 280s running in SLI right now. From the looks of the reviews, that absolutely destroys a single 5870 in a lot of games. So, if I even want to "upgrade" I'm on the hook for two 5870s. But looking at most games, the justification for CF 5870s isn't there. In one of the few games where it really matters and I could use the frames (Crysis), there isn't even a 10% increase from SLI GTX to 5870 CF. Some games show 20-30% increases but they're games already running at 80+ FPS.

The 5870 is actually a lot like the 4800 series. It kicks ass with non-demanding games, pushing framerates into the stratosphere, but the performance is subpar in games that really need the higher framerates. What I'd really like to see is some ARMA II benchmarks.

Looks like I'll be waiting for Nvidia, and maybe even sitting out if GTX300 SLI can't beat my cards by at least 50% across the board.
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http://hardocp.com/article/2009/09/22/amds_ati_radeon_hd_5870_video_card_review/8
 
sirmonkey1985 said:
now if only games would actually use SLI and crossfire correctly without having to wait for 10 updates just to fix it then they would be worth it.. but ill stick with single cards until then.. heck they still havent completely fixed SLI/crossfire in either of the crysis games.. ATI and nvidia had to do it them selves..
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well I can't say I've experienced any problems...and certainly not when it comes to performance with average frame rates, well and above any single card solution to date.
Also less noise aswell....alot less :D
so if there is a problem with SLI...I like it so far...imagine when it's fixed!
 
JCDenton said:
Wow, I'm thoroughly unimpressed with this new offering. It's certainly good if you have a single mid-range card and are looking to upgrade, but there's not a lot here for enthusiasts who already have high end parts.

Case in point: I have two GTX 280s running in SLI right now. From the looks of the reviews, that absolutely destroys a single 5870 in a lot of games. So, if I even want to "upgrade" I'm on the hook for two 5870s. But looking at most games, the justification for CF 5870s isn't there. In one of the few games where it really matters and I could use the frames (Crysis), there isn't even a 10% increase from SLI GTX to 5870 CF. Some games show 20-30% increases but they're games already running at 80+ FPS.

The 5870 is actually a lot like the 4800 series. It kicks ass with non-demanding games, pushing framerates into the stratosphere, but the performance is subpar in games that really need the higher framerates. What I'd really like to see is some ARMA II benchmarks.

Looks like I'll be waiting for Nvidia, and maybe even sitting out if GTX300 SLI can't beat my cards by at least 50% across the board.
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Same here mate. The lower power usage don't get to me, as before I get money back from cost of purchase of 5870 CF setup, it will be long after next upgrade :)Noise is same level, so I do not care about it too. All my games are played on max details (except maybe Age of Conan), so no need to purchase. Besides GT300 is not so far away, according to people from nVidia I've been recently talking to.
 
While I congratulate AMD/ATI for this great offering, I will not purchase this card until:

1. Nvidia shows their hand.
2. ATI Drivers don't melt my PC.

Until then, i've going to continue to use Nvidia video cards. They just work on all the games I play. Having said all of this, I'm cheering for ATI!! Competition keeps Nvidia from charging ridiculous amounts of money. GO ATI/AMD!
 
I am SOMEWHAT cheering for ATI. They gave me some good times with my X1900XT, although in retrospect, I would have been better off with the 8800GTX. I didn't have the balls to spend that much at the time since it was my first build though. The reason I can't wholeheartedly root for ATI is....well, if ATI kicks ass this time around then that means its cards are better than Nvidia's. And if that's the case, given that I'm not overly impressed with the new ATI cards, I'll be underwhelmed with the new Nvidia cards too. I'm hoping Nvidia can bring a card in the $500 range that beats the 5870 by at least 20-30%.
 
Considering that the 5870 has twice the number of stream processors, twice the ROPs and twice the texture units compared to the 4890, it doesn't perform that well, IMO. Either it's bandwidth limited or CPU/driver bound...

Not saying it's a bad card, just not the leap I was expecting after seeing the specs and transistor count.

Another disappointment is that this launch doesn't change the GPU landscape below $200 at all. ATI are doing what Nvidia did after launching the GTX200 series, holding on to the previous generation of cards in the mid-range and low-end. Had the 5870 launched at $299 and the 5850 at $199, like the 4800 series did, this would have been much more interesting. I guess they'll drop to those price point eventually, though.
 
JimmiG said:
Considering that the 5870 has twice the number of stream processors, twice the ROPs and twice the texture units compared to the 4890, it doesn't perform that well, IMO. Either it's bandwidth limited or CPU/driver bound...

Not saying it's a bad card, just not the leap I was expecting after seeing the specs and transistor count.

Another disappointment is that this launch doesn't change the GPU landscape below $200 at all. ATI are doing what Nvidia did after launching the GTX200 series, holding on to the previous generation of cards in the mid-range and low-end. Had the 5870 launched at $299 and the 5850 at $199, like the 4800 series did, this would have been much more interesting. I guess they'll drop to those price point eventually, though.
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X10 on the price point. 5870 is 79 dollars too high
 
BlackTTC6 said:
5850 looks like a GREAT deal
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Yep. Faster than GTX 285, DX11, and $259 (price should fall over time of course).

If I was in the market for a card today, 5870 would probably be too much but 5850 would be very tempting.
 
JimmiG said:
Considering that the 5870 has twice the number of stream processors, twice the ROPs and twice the texture units compared to the 4890, it doesn't perform that well, IMO. Either it's bandwidth limited or CPU/driver bound...

Not saying it's a bad card, just not the leap I was expecting after seeing the specs and transistor count.

Another disappointment is that this launch doesn't change the GPU landscape below $200 at all. ATI are doing what Nvidia did after launching the GTX200 series, holding on to the previous generation of cards in the mid-range and low-end. Had the 5870 launched at $299 and the 5850 at $199, like the 4800 series did, this would have been much more interesting. I guess they'll drop to those price point eventually, though.
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For the first part, yeah I cant figure out the 5870's apparent poor scaling either. I really doubt it's entirely or even mostly BW.

For the second, shouldn't you wait for ATI's Juniper launch soon to make any conclusions? Juniper is the smaller chip that is set to take over for the 4870, 4890 etc. Many reviews mentioned it, pay attention...ATI is definitely not "holding on to the previous generation of cards in the mid-range and low end". The Juniper NDA is just not up yet.

Not that personally I had that much problem when Nvidia did that, but anyway it's false.
 
JCDenton said:
I am SOMEWHAT cheering for ATI. They gave me some good times with my X1900XT, although in retrospect, I would have been better off with the 8800GTX. I didn't have the balls to spend that much at the time since it was my first build though. The reason I can't wholeheartedly root for ATI is....well, if ATI kicks ass this time around then that means its cards are better than Nvidia's. And if that's the case, given that I'm not overly impressed with the new ATI cards, I'll be underwhelmed with the new Nvidia cards too. I'm hoping Nvidia can bring a card in the $500 range that beats the 5870 by at least 20-30%.
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Are you serious? $500 for 20-30% more would be a major ripoff..

Especially since we can be assured these are transient prices on 58XX while Nvidia has no competition. They'll be adjusted as necessary whenever GT300 comes out...meaning at that time 5870 will probably be dropped to 299.

One big advantage for ATI is theyre probably already working on the faster "refresh" of 58XX, while Nvidia hasnt even got the first take of GT300 out yet. So it might not be too long after GT300 that "5890" comes out.
 
Shark974 said:
Are you serious? $500 for 20-30% more would be a major ripoff..
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Maybe you're not aware of this but price/performance usually don't scale linearly. An extra $120 to be 20-30% better than the second best GPU is a great deal.
 
What's with all the ridiculous comparisons to dual GPU configurations? The 5870 is on par with or better than the 295, which is slightly worse than two 275s in SLI, so how are 275s in SLI significantly better than 5870? The 5870 is also a new card that has an MSRP of $380, whereas the 275 carries an inflated price tag that hasn't even dropped since the day it launched; a new 275 SLI config will cost you $440.
 
I dunno pretty much the same performance as 2 cards take up to 50% more power in a single card sounds good to me :p
 
JCDenton said:
Wow, I'm thoroughly unimpressed with this new offering. It's certainly good if you have a single mid-range card and are looking to upgrade, but there's not a lot here for enthusiasts who already have high end parts.

Case in point: I have two GTX 280s running in SLI right now. From the looks of the reviews, that absolutely destroys a single 5870 in a lot of games. So, if I even want to "upgrade" I'm on the hook for two 5870s.
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I think expectations were unrealistic. This is a single GPU, people! *cough* LAUNCH DRIVERS *cough*

Honestly, when was the last time any single GPU outperformed serious dual GPU's? Shucks, even the mighty GTX 295 has been overpowered by SLI and CF in many cases (i.e. your SLI 280's).

Two "heads" are better than one, always have been (CF 4890's, SLI 275's, 4870X2, GTX 295, etc.), driver issues notwithstanding. I don't think it's reasonable to see a single 5870 as an upgrade to high-end dual card configurations. The 5870 seems to be aimed at users with DX10 flagship cards (HD 4870's and GTX 260's) who are looking to upgrade, and are not interested in dual card/GPU configurations. This is just the DX11 flagship. It will be the same thing as DX10 flagships . . . just one floor higher. Users who are not satisfied with single will go dual, as always. And most users who are "disappointed" with its performance, have more than enough power to wait for later releases, anyway. The power will come. :D

Really, the 5870 seems to scale quite impressively in early CF and X2 benchmarks. It seems rational to me that if high-performance users expect significant gains, they should not be moving from two GPU's to one.

But looking at most games, the justification for CF 5870s isn't there.
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Edit: And it certainly isn't the fault of the card manufacturers that games are being blown out of the water. We should be criticizing the game manufacturers, not the card-makers.
 
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Bravo AMD.. Bravo! this is the type of performance increase in which is warranted with a new product.
 
ZerazaX said:
Look back at the GTX 280 release and how they showed the 9800 GX2 beating the GTX 280 in average FPS and what not...

Truth is, we all know which card performed better in real gameplay experience. Look at the min FPS in [H]'s review of the 5870 vs. other cards and you'll see that in some games, its 2x that of the GTX 285 and at higher settings sometimes no less, which is a pretty important difference
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This is the big reason I dislike anand's video card reviews. I would like to have the min fps listed. To me I'd rather have the power show off by not completely crapping out during the busy times. This is pretty much why I think the average fps can be a flawed view on real world playability and smoothness.
 
Tbird87 said:
This is the big reason I dislike anand's video card reviews. I would like to have the min fps listed. To me I'd rather have the power show off by not completely crapping out during the busy times. This is pretty much why I think the average fps can be a flawed view on real world playability and smoothness.
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Good point.
 
Tbird87 said:
This is the big reason I dislike anand's video card reviews. I would like to have the min fps listed. To me I'd rather have the power show off by not completely crapping out during the busy times. This is pretty much why I think the average fps can be a flawed view on real world playability and smoothness.
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I agree also. I find myself looking at the MIN FPS before I even look at the AVG to see if there's going to be any stuttering whatsoever. I'd rather have 50 FPS AVG with a MIN of 30 FPS than a 70 FPS AVG and a MIN of 15 FPS. You rarely see this type of anomaly and when you do it's most likely a driver/game issue that can be fixed with a software update. Regardless, it has an considerable impact on my likeliness of buying a card.
 
I had hoped it would be faster than this, but it dont beat the x2 as i thought it would so i was a bit disappointed. Well my 4870 died on me, and i had to borrow on of my sons 4890 card so i guess i am in a need of a new card soon, but it anit going to be the 5870 thats for shure ...
 
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