America Needs A Cyber Bill Of Rights

HardOCP News

[H] News
Joined
Dec 31, 1969
Messages
0
I know it is probably wishful thinking, but it would be nice to see our country stand together and demand a cyber Bill of Rights.

If the Constitution and Bill of Rights were written today, if somehow the greats — Madison, Jefferson, Franklin — were able to put their minds to building an America engulfed in digital data, you can be sure our digital reality would find its way into those documents.
 

SGTGimpy

Limp Gawd
Joined
Oct 7, 2009
Messages
233
Won't happen and the way things are going now. The Constitution and Bill of Rights will be gone in the next 100 years.
 

kbrickley

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
May 13, 2012
Messages
7,514
We already have a bill of rights and some of the things the government is doing probably violate the bill of rights and the courts will sort it out ... the last thing we need is a bunch of internet nerds and hipsters writing a cyber bill of rights that would likely try and protect rights that don't exist (mainly restricting the rights of corporations rather than the government) ;)

government spying for the most does violate the constitution and when we eventually get some younger judges who actually understand the internet we will get better case law that protects people from government rights violations or scope creep ... some parts of the internet actually are public spaces and as such afford no privacy protections :cool:

if people think they have any rights with corporations then they are wrong and I wouldn't want to see them treating and restricting corporations like the government (since they are not the government and are not bound by government restrictions) :)
 

kbrickley

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
May 13, 2012
Messages
7,514
US civil rights and liberties have been systematically whittled away for years. Creating new bills of rights is counter productive to the agenda of the elite.

"It's called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it."
- George Carlin

Not to sidetrack this discussion but Americans still have more rights and freedoms than most other countries (if not all) ... the interpretation of rights and liberties has changed over time (mostly for the positive) ... a little over 100 years ago only white men over the age of 21 could vote ... now women, minorities, and people 18 and up have that right ... most of the problems with erosion of rights is that people don't exercise that one basic right ... most of our congressmen are elected by less than 50% (sometimes a LOT less) of the eligible voters in their districts ... if Americans have lost rights it is because they gave them away, not because they were taken from them ;)
 

maademperor

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Oct 19, 2005
Messages
1,442
Not to sidetrack this discussion but Americans still have more rights and freedoms than most other countries (if not all) ... the interpretation of rights and liberties has changed over time (mostly for the positive) ... a little over 100 years ago only white men over the age of 21 could vote ... now women, minorities, and people 18 and up have that right ... most of the problems with erosion of rights is that people don't exercise that one basic right ... most of our congressmen are elected by less than 50% (sometimes a LOT less) of the eligible voters in their districts ... if Americans have lost rights it is because they gave them away, not because they were taken from them ;)

well said. we tend to sit back and just deal as long as we can afford iphones and flat screen tvs nobody is going to have a problem. when that changes, then we will see some fireworks.
 

[Tripod]MajorPayne

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jun 15, 2004
Messages
4,945
The paper bill of rights works just fine for cyber activities.

No unreasonable searches or seizures (i.e. without a warrant), guarantee the security of people in their 'effects' (the best part about this terms is that it is so open-ended that it encompasses all forms of personal property and identification).

Freedom of speech and the press, no restriction of or promotion of religious expression.

The right not to be forced to self-incriminate.

If our government would just stop 'secretly' interpreting the law to mean the opposite of what the words say, we'd be just fine. The notion of 'secret' interpretations of the law is just ridiculous in and of itself. The law, by definition, is public, and its interpretation is as well. If the government is secretly using a completely different interpretation of the law, there is no such thing as justice.
 

Sickb0y

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 20, 2005
Messages
2,198
If it includes the moron liberals and the looney tunes Republicans no thanks.
 

heatlesssun

Extremely [H]
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
44,154
[Tripod]MajorPayne;1039981796 said:
The paper bill of rights works just fine for cyber activities.

No unreasonable searches or seizures (i.e. without a warrant), guarantee the security of people in their 'effects' (the best part about this terms is that it is so open-ended that it encompasses all forms of personal property and identification).

Most mainstream Constitutional law experts, on both the right and left, have pointed out that the Constitution doesn't really address the aspect of privacy. With just a persons name you can find out a lot about that person that's public record. I understand in this case we're talking about personal communications and there have been statues in place protecting physical mail, wire tapping and so forth in place for years, but the point is that laws had to be written to make it clear as the 4th Amendment didn't really seem to address the well legally.

I do think that there needs to be serious debate about a privacy amendment to the Constitution because privacy just really isn't addressed by it today.
 

cyclone3d

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Messages
14,728
Won't happen and the way things are going now. The Constitution and Bill of Rights will be gone in the next 100 years.

fixed it for you. :D

Pshhh, you two have way too high of expectations. More like 2 years tops.

If it includes the moron liberals and the looney tunes Republicans no thanks.

Pretty much.. almost every single politician needs to be thrown out of office. Starting from the top.
 

NKDietrich

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jul 25, 2004
Messages
5,442
Yeah. Things are moving in the opposite direction overall. 10 years ago I laughed at the doomsayers, but I've just become more and more convinced that we're headed for some dark shit. And I don't just mean people have to get a cheaper car and live in smaller homes. I mean some real dark shit. Within our lifetime, too.
 

heatlesssun

Extremely [H]
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
44,154
I mean some real dark shit. Within our lifetime, too.

This sentiment is as old as dirt. And it tends to ebb and flow with how the economy is doing so in a period of relatively high unemployment it's more natural that people will be more pessimistic.

The truth of the matter is that for most folks, their destiny is still theirs. Life in the US country is far, far more determined by the personal choices and decisions that each of us make than by government. Governing a relatively well educated, healthy, peaceful, free and prosperous nation is not an easy task and never will be and there will be ups and downs. But ultimately our fate is our own.
 

Red Falcon

[H]F Junkie
Joined
May 7, 2007
Messages
11,346
The truth of the matter is that for most folks, their destiny is still theirs.

Tell that to the millions that died under Joseph Stalin, Chairman Mao, Hitler, every leader in North Korean history, etc.

If we don't learn from our history, we are doomed to repeat it.
Sounds like you're going to be doing a lot of repeating.
 

heatlesssun

Extremely [H]
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
44,154
Tell that to the millions that died under Joseph Stalin, Chairman Mao, Hitler, every leader in North Korean history, etc.

If we don't learn from our history, we are doomed to repeat it.
Sounds like you're going to be doing a lot of repeating.

Of course there is tyranny in the world but what does this have to do with personal responsibility? Whatever issues and problems I've had in my life as an adult certainly weren't caused by the government.
 

Jagger100

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 31, 2004
Messages
7,688
Unfortunately any effort for any bill of rights would be co-opted by special interests who have the ruling class' ear more than the average person does.
 

kbrickley

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
May 13, 2012
Messages
7,514
Tell that to the millions that died under Joseph Stalin, Chairman Mao, Hitler, every leader in North Korean history, etc.

If we don't learn from our history, we are doomed to repeat it.
Sounds like you're going to be doing a lot of repeating.

Wow ... way to sidetrack the discussion into paranoiaville :) ... as a note all of those totalitarian regimes came into power because the existing governments were oppressive and the there was mass popular unrest ... it was after they came to power they turned on the people who put them there ... if you are suggesting that our government is getting bad enough that people might put an American equivalent of those groups into power that is always possible (if highly unlikely) ... if you are suggesting that our current elected government and parties will become like those groups I would find that suggestion to be extremely unlikely :cool:
 

MasonD

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Sep 6, 2012
Messages
1,031
if Americans have lost rights it is because they gave them away, not because they were taken from them ;)

I love when the many are blamed for what the very few pay to have done. If rights were taken away they were taken away when the masses (the people) were being lied to, manipulated, busy working, or completely misinformed/not informed on these important topics (transparency from the GOV = ROFL). Yes, somehow, it's still my fault the NSA is breaking the law spying on the world.:rolleyes:

Stop blaming the people for what the people on top lobby for, it's the easy way of thinking IMO. Truth is people will take from you on certain occasions whether you're accepting of it or not, that's fact.
 

kbrickley

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
May 13, 2012
Messages
7,514
I love when the many are blamed for what the very few pay to have done. If rights were taken away they were taken away when the masses (the people) were being lied to, manipulated, busy working, or completely misinformed/not informed on these important topics (transparency from the GOV = ROFL). Yes, somehow, it's still my fault the NSA is breaking the law spying on the world.:rolleyes:

Stop blaming the people for what the people on top lobby for, it's the easy way of thinking IMO. Truth is people will take from you on certain occasions whether you're accepting of it or not, that's fact.

When up to 80% of eligible American voters choose not to vote for the people in power who take those rights away I can say they are partially to blame ... that is all I am saying ... for the 20% of Americans who do vote they are also partially responsible since they elected the person who took the rights away ... we are still a democratic republic ... we put the people who abuse us in power ... they didn't just mysteriously appear ;)
 

MasonD

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Sep 6, 2012
Messages
1,031
When up to 80% of eligible American voters choose not to vote for the people in power who take those rights away I can say they are partially to blame ... that is all I am saying ... for the 20% of Americans who do vote they are also partially responsible since they elected the person who took the rights away ... we are still a democratic republic ... we put the people who abuse us in power ... they didn't just mysteriously appear ;)

1. Two party system with the same exact politicians running backed by elite bankers. Yes, no choice there. Tell me the difference between Romney and Obama (or any of them) besides skin color (rhetorical). You have no choice, you have the illusion of choice. Red or blue, black or with cream, by acceptance or by force.

2. Your presidential vote doesn't go towards who you voted for anyway, electoral college at work.

3. We're a democratic republic on paper, not in function. Anyone thinking so...lol.

The system is rigged and always was.
 

kac77

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
2,726
1. Two party system with the same exact politicians running backed by elite bankers. Yes, no choice there. Tell me the difference between Romney and Obama (or any of them) besides skin color (rhetorical). You have no choice, you have the illusion of choice. Red or blue, black or with cream, by acceptance or by force.
Presidential elections aren't the only elections that people should participate in. If anything elections at the local level matter far more. However, that's beside the point. When Obama or any president was running did anyone grab the mic and grill him? No. Romney was so bad it just wasn't necessary. However, Bush was so stupid that the media pretty much gave him cover. Did the public do anything about that? No. How about the war in Iraq? Did the public do anything about that? No. This notion you have that everyone is powerless is pathetic. A lump of meat has more power than you.

2. Your presidential vote doesn't go towards who you voted for anyway, electoral college at work.
You don't say. Guess what? We have the power to amend the Constitution. Yes we the people. We can even do it without the Federal government.

3. We're a democratic republic on paper, not in function. Anyone thinking so...lol.

The system is rigged and always was.
And it's up to us to change it not sit in a corner and cry. Maybe that's something that works for you. But for a lot of people I'm sure it doesn't.
 

MasonD

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Sep 6, 2012
Messages
1,031
Presidential elections aren't the only elections that people should participate in. .
First, no one was even saying this wasn't true. You just flung it out there to waste my time.
When Obama or any president was running did anyone grab the mic and grill him?
No.
Try that next time.

Did the public do anything about that? No. This notion you have that everyone is powerless is pathetic. A lump of meat has more power than you.
I'm not even saying that so that's what's pathetic. You can't even grasp what's being said here. Lump of meat what? Sense = none.

We have the power to amend the Constitution. Yes we the people. We can even do it without the Federal government.
You mean the constitution not being adhered to today...lol. Good luck with that without a revolution (where the people do have power =what you miss).

And it's up to us to change it not sit in a corner and cry.

Starting to wonder why I'm responding to you now. You're just saying weird shit that doesn't even apply to what's being discussed here. You don't even understand how the system really works and yet somehow naively think you're going to make any change by making no sense online.

Maybe that's something that works for you. But for a lot of people I'm sure it doesn't
Since what you responded to my post with didn't actually address any points of my actual post I'd say you're definitely not the one to make that call...or any call.
 

kac77

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
2,726
First, no one was even saying this wasn't true. You just flung it out there to waste my time.
More like you didn't mention it.

Try that next time.
Why should I fight for your freedom if you won't? You want a freebie?

I'm not even saying that so that's what's pathetic. You can't even grasp what's being said here. Lump of meat what? Sense = none.
Sorry the act deaf, dumb, blind, crippled, and crazy defense doesn't work here. You just don't have a really good response to what was said. As I said a lump of meat has more power than you do.

You mean the constitution not being adhered to today...lol. Good luck with that without a revolution (where the people do have power =what you miss).
The Constitution isn't what gives the Constitution power. It's the people that do. Unfortunately wallowing around in despair is the best you can offer.


Since what you responded to my post with didn't actually address any points of my actual post I'd say you're definitely not the one to make that call...or any call.
...and yet you responded anyway. Hmm...I can already see where this is going.
 

MasonD

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Sep 6, 2012
Messages
1,031
More like you didn't mention it.
I didn't have to, those specifics weren't being discussed.

Why should I fight for your freedom if you won't? You want a freebie?

What the fuck are you talking about? If you think insulting people online that were just stating the facts you can't accept is fighting for your freedom let me arm you with a copper mesh helmet to fight for freedom with.

Sorry the act deaf, dumb, blind, crippled, and crazy defense doesn't work here. You just don't have a really good response to what was said. As I said a lump of meat has more power than you do.

You literally have no input other than pity insults that make you look uninformed or worse stupid.

The Constitution isn't what gives the Constitution power. It's the people that do. Unfortunately wallowing around in despair is the best you can offer.

Yes, stating facts is in complete despair while childish insults with no real world benefit are super-duper helpful (scratches head).

...and yet you responded anyway. Hmm...I can already see where this is going.
Yes, I responded while questioning why I was responding. I'm sure in your world that's somehow unacceptable too. Or maybe I was waiting for your point, it never came...lol. As for where this is going, you're late! You took it there awhile back kid.
 

MasonD

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Sep 6, 2012
Messages
1,031
Two edits (at least):

1. Wrong copper helmet linked.

2. Meant petty, not pity.
 

kbrickley

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
May 13, 2012
Messages
7,514
1. Two party system with the same exact politicians running backed by elite bankers. Yes, no choice there. Tell me the difference between Romney and Obama (or any of them) besides skin color (rhetorical). You have no choice, you have the illusion of choice. Red or blue, black or with cream, by acceptance or by force.

2. Your presidential vote doesn't go towards who you voted for anyway, electoral college at work.

3. We're a democratic republic on paper, not in function. Anyone thinking so...lol.

The system is rigged and always was.

We have a two party system because people only vote for the two parties in power ... if they were to actually get upset about something and vote for one of the alternate parties (some of which are pretty out there, but available) then things will change ... as maademperor noted people are currently easily placated as long as they can afford their smarphones, flat screen hd TVs, and video games or tablets ;)

There have been only a few instances where the popular vote and the electoral vote were not aligned ... the electoral vote system is also designed to allow the smaller states to have a voice in the process and not be overwhelmed by the larger states like (Texas, California, New York, and Florida) who have a significant portion of the national population.

We still have elections ... just because voters are easily manipulated doesn't mean our system is a failure ... if Americans actually got mad enough and voted out every existing member of Congress do you not think those new members would try and fix whatever got ALL of their predecessors canned ... Americans won't do that, but they still have that right, even if they choose not to utilize it ;)
 

cptnjarhead

Crossfit Fast Walk Champion Runnerup
Joined
Mar 9, 2010
Messages
1,669
I love when the many are blamed for what the very few pay to have done. If rights were taken away they were taken away when the masses (the people) were being lied to, manipulated, busy working, or completely misinformed/not informed on these important topics (transparency from the GOV = ROFL). Yes, somehow, it's still my fault the NSA is breaking the law spying on the world.:rolleyes:

Stop blaming the people for what the people on top lobby for, it's the easy way of thinking IMO. Truth is people will take from you on certain occasions whether you're accepting of it or not, that's fact.

If you’re an American citizen then you are responsible. This “not my fault” nonsense is how we got here. Talk is cheap on both sides, but I go to tea-party meetings and constitutional seminars, and local, state and fed issue meetings as much as i can, not just for myself, but to inform others to make an informed decision. The low information voter is the main reason you feel like there is no control on what goes on in our government. Empower yourself, get involved with local, state and fed. Take classes on the constitution, there are many on-line for free and probably some in your local area. Then try to tell yourself its not everyone’s fault that we have allowed our freedoms to be eroded away.
Call me crazy and attack me on a personal level all wish. We were given a constructional republic and it is everyone’s responsibility to keep it!
 

Ocean

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Messages
4,927
eventually, with almost technological certainty, one smart person will be able to destroy all human life on this planet with the information on the internet or its descendant; whether it is biological, chemical, or through environmental action.


freedom was great from top to bottom. but now and the future, when a single individual can kill so many with an initial suicidal act, the downside are becoming more relevant.

there is a solution, but difficult to implement. ubiquitous information surveillance, that can only be legally used for crimes dealing with mass destruction, and only for prevention, not for criminal prosecution.

this might be constitutional already if it doesnt apply to taking people's rights away via a criminal punishment.
 

JimmayLong

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 26, 2010
Messages
333
That issue I see if they think they need a cyber version. Regardless of where your rights are still your rights no matter what form they take. Next thing is going to be well we need a quantum mechanic bill of rights for when...how about we pull our head of our asses and be accountable.for action we take.

It comes to risk vs reward and swift punish through the judicial system which doesn't happen today.
 
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
2,542
No we don't.

All the idiots have to do is recognize that all this "cyber" shit is also part of your "EFFECTS".

Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Now, extending privacy protections to the conduct of Corporations, that might be a good idea. We did, specifically in medical records in the form of HIPPA. So make that any and all records held by private corporations and you'll have something.
 

cptnjarhead

Crossfit Fast Walk Champion Runnerup
Joined
Mar 9, 2010
Messages
1,669
No we don't.

All the idiots have to do is recognize that all this "cyber" shit is also part of your "EFFECTS".

Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Now, extending privacy protections to the conduct of Corporations, that might be a good idea. We did, specifically in medical records in the form of HIPPA. So make that any and all records held by private corporations and you'll have something.

here here.
interpretation is the key
 

dandragonrage

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 5, 2004
Messages
8,298
What we need is for the government to abide by our current Constitution and Bill of Rights, because it does not do so.
 

kac77

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
2,726
I didn't have to, those specifics weren't being discussed.
I'm pretty sure if we are talking about a two party system that we are talking about our system in it's entirety. Saying you didn't have to just means you didn't think it through, which isn't a shock.

What the fuck are you talking about? If you think insulting people online that were just stating the facts you can't accept is fighting for your freedom let me arm you with a copper mesh helmet to fight for freedom with.
I think you just said that it didn't matter who you voted for. So now you are fighting for my freedom? What are you smoking? Trash?

You literally have no input other than pity insults that make you look uninformed or worse stupid.
Project much?

Yes, stating facts is in complete despair while childish insults with no real world benefit are super-duper helpful (scratches head).
I agree so all we need is for you to stop talking and all will be right with the world.

Yes, I responded while questioning why I was responding. I'm sure in your world that's somehow unacceptable too. Or maybe I was waiting for your point, it never came...lol. As for where this is going, you're late! You took it there awhile back kid.
Unacceptable? No. Dumb? Yes.
 

CreepyUncleGoogle

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Mar 10, 2013
Messages
6,871
Um, there isn't a two party system. There's the Green Party and a bunch of Wigs and Tories around too. Anyone can start a political party if they want. There's nothing stopping people from doing it to get someone they want elected to a public office.
 

kbrickley

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
May 13, 2012
Messages
7,514
Um, there isn't a two party system. There's the Green Party and a bunch of Wigs and Tories around too. Anyone can start a political party if they want. There's nothing stopping people from doing it to get someone they want elected to a public office.

I think we need to start a LOL Cats party ... we could sweep every position in the government ... first law could be free high speed internet for everyone :D
 

jojo69

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
Messages
10,930
"Cyber" bill of rights?

shit, I would be more than happy just to get our regular bill of rights back
 
Top