AMD’s Navi GPU coming July Radeon RX 5700 OFFICIAL

Discussion in 'AMD Flavor' started by cybereality, May 27, 2019.

  1. 5150Joker

    5150Joker 2[H]4U

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    Since NAVI was pretty much purpose built for Sony and I'm assuming MS, AMD should be able to use economies of scale and lower the price on the PC part.
     
  2. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    The architecture may be- but it's on an SoC, so I'm wondering just how much can be 'saved'. Or even how portable the architecture is.
     
  3. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Believing that rumor, is no better than believing the Adored TV rumors.

    It makes ZERO sense that AMD purpose built an architecture for Sony.

    The architecture was designed by AMD for AMD.

    AMD will purpose build SoCs implementations for Sony and Microsoft.
     
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  4. Oldmodder

    Oldmodder Gawd

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    I think so too, and it was good enough that Sony said " we will take it"
     
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  5. sabrewolf732

    sabrewolf732 2[H]4U

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    Does anyone else feel that nvidia super/potential refresh of rtx indicates that navi is competitive?
     
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  6. sabrewolf732

    sabrewolf732 2[H]4U

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    I think it'd be silly to assume that application for sony/microsoft consoles didn't play a role in navi development, you're looking at an install base in the tens of millions.
     
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  7. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Of course they take input from their customers. PMs will meet quite regularly with their bigger customers: Sony/Microsoft/Larger Board partners and solicit feedback, requirements, etc... But that doesn't translate to "Designed for Sony".

    The requirements of base architecture really don't change between consoles on GPU boards and even APUs. In all cases you want to maximize perf/watt. Customers are very unlikely to have anything to add concerning the base architecture (AKA GCN or RDNA). Do Sony engineers understand GPU architecture better than AMD engineers to make valuable contributions to the base architecture? Unlikely in the extreme.

    The details influenced by customers, really only change on the specific chip implementations for each product (Number of active units, and CPU cores for consoles, memory interface type and size). This is where Sony comes in. They specify which compromises they will make for their design. How big and expensive and power consuming their specific chip will be and what kind of memory interface.

    What was really Silly was the original rumor that people keep bringing up, that claimed Vega Development was gutted, presumably back in 2015-2016, to work on a Sony console chip for 2020 or beyond. Here is a quote from the original rumor:
    That rumor was a farce. It falls into the classic conspiracy thinking mold. Vega wasn't impressive as people were expecting so we get an after the fact, oddball explanation of why Vega didn't live up to hype. Sony paid to displace most of the the Vega engineers. :rolleyes:

    Most conspiracy theories stem from people needing explanations for reality not meeting their explanations. There is also another after the fact rumor that Vega uses so much power, because they power engineers were displaced to work on Ryzen. It's a pattern of after the fact, more palatable explanations.

    The biggest problem with rumors, isn't the rumor creators, it's the "need to believe" that so many people have, that gives them traction. Without some kind of proof, rumors should be treated as the nonsense that the vast majority of them are. Yet we keep seeing people bring them up as if they were established facts.
     
  8. DooKey

    DooKey [H]ardness Supreme

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    No, I see it as business as usual for NV.
     
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  9. sabrewolf732

    sabrewolf732 2[H]4U

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    going to disagree here based on nvidia's track record, but I guess we can wait and see!
     
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  10. 5150Joker

    5150Joker 2[H]4U

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    Console partners always have a hand in design of new SoC. If their new consoles use the Navi architecture, then it stands to reason that AMD could easily port it to PC and benefit from the sales of the Navi architecture on console to lower their prices. And to your question of whether Sony engineers understand GPU/CPU development, of course they do. How else did they custom design their consoles and other products in the past? DX is a MS product so they certainly understand GPUs very well so they would know exactly what they want and how to implement it. I think when AMD releases it's financial results a year or two from now, we'll see Navi mentioned for Sony/MS and those millions of sales will impact the ability of AMD to lower the prices of Navi from top down for the PC.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2019
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  11. GDI Lord

    GDI Lord Limp Gawd

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    Don't worry, I'm waiting for them to announce their next gen "6670" card, then I can say that, just like with my i740, I have a very early pre-release card from a major manufacturer. <3 <3 <3
     
  12. Oldmodder

    Oldmodder Gawd

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    I would like that, but really i cant be bothered with adding to the web of guesses and estimates, but we will see soon.
     
  13. Boil

    Boil [H]ard|Gawd

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    If Apple announces new Mac Pros at WWDC tomorrow, we may also get some info on Navi...

    If Apple decides to totally dick over its 'pro' user base & punt the Mac Pro, then we will get more consumer-oriented details on Navi at E3, a week later...

    Hot Chips in August will definitely have all the nitty gritty...


    AMD announced that CEO and President Dr. Lisa Su will deliver a keynote at this year’s Hot Chips: A Symposium on High Performance Chips, in Palo Alto on Monday, Aug. 19 at 1:45 PM PT.

    AMD does not mention many details about the content of the presentations. It is clear, however, that the chip designer will talk about both new Ryzen and Epyc processors during the Zen 2 presentation. In her keynote, ‘Delivering the Future of High-Performance Computing with System, Software and Silicon Co-Optimization’, Su will highlight the opportunities for future generations of computing and graphics products to deliver more performance with greater efficiency.

    Additionally, AMD will host Hot Chips sessions on the next generation “Zen 2” x86 CPU core and “Navi” GPU featuring 7nm process technology:

    • “Zen 2”: On Monday, Aug. 19 at 9:00 AM PT, AMD will provide a deep dive into the next generation 7nm “Zen 2” core architecture to be deployed in 3rd Generation Ryzen desktop processors and 2nd Generation EPYC servers.
    • “Navi”: On Tuesday, Aug. 20 at 6:15 PM PT, AMD will provide a “Navi” GPU architecture and 7nm technology implementation presentation.
     
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  14. illli

    illli [H]ard|Gawd

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    well that has never happened before... right...? right?? :p
     
  15. TheRookie

    TheRookie Limp Gawd

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    This is about as dumb as saying that Zen 2 was built for Sony.

    No, AMD didn't build Navi for Sony.

    AMD build Navi for AMD.

    AMD also happens to sell semi-custom solutions which make use of Zen 2 and Navi.

    One of the customers buying AMD's semi-custom solutions just happens to be Sony.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2019
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  16. TheRookie

    TheRookie Limp Gawd

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    I see your sneaky attempt to move the goal post.

    Earlier, you claimed that Navi (as an architecture) was build for Sony.

    Now, you are saying that the SoC (which is one specific application of Navi) was build for Sony.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2019
  17. Boil

    Boil [H]ard|Gawd

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    Well, no punt, but a solid kick straight to the wallet...!

    Too rich for my blood, all-AMD Hackintosh it is...!
     
  18. 5150Joker

    5150Joker 2[H]4U

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    It's been long rumored Navi was being tailored specifically for Sony and possibly MS consoles. This is not new information and no goal posts were moved. When I mentioned SoC, I'm specifically talking about the Navi architecture that's used in it.

    “What we have done with Sony is really architect something for their application, for their special sauce,” Dr. Su told Jim Cramer of CNBC’s Mad Money after its Q1 earnings were announced.

     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2019
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  19. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

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    By long rumored, you mean that same one rumor that some people keep treating as fact, that I tore apart above for it's absolutely ridiculous claims that Vega Development was killed to build a architecture for Sony, for 4 or 5 years in the future.

    Of course they architected something for Sony. An SoC for PS5 with whatever AMD IP Sony wanted. When Xbox Next is announced, they will say similar things about the SoC for Xbox Next.
     
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  20. TheRookie

    TheRookie Limp Gawd

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    That is merely a rumor, yet you've mentioned it as if it was a fact.

    You should have started your sentence with "It was once rumored that..." or something similar.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2019
  21. 5150Joker

    5150Joker 2[H]4U

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    Tore down with evidence or your own conjecture? Because you made a lot of statements without anything to back it up and it's not anymore valid than the rumor of Navi being built for Sony.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2019
  22. 5150Joker

    5150Joker 2[H]4U

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    Next time I'll use crayons for you
     
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  23. NKD

    NKD [H]ardness Supreme

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    yes but that doesn't make true that they built it only for sony or anything, ofcourse they are taking consoles in mind when building any architecture. They just announced partnership with Samsung licensing the IP of RDNA architecture. That to me is a big sign that RDNA is going to be a highly scalable architecture once said and done.

    Rumor is RX 5700 series is going to be first go at RDNA and likely isn't fully baked and full implementation of RDNA will be the big Navi. We shall see.
     
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  24. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I mean nonsense rumor vs logic.

    It makes no sense to sabotage Vega to work on Navi, let alone doing it at the behest of Sony, not for AMD who desperately needed Vega income, not for Sony that presumably paid a large pile of cash for such a diversion of resources (in hidden payments that never showed up in AMD financials?) , only to have Navi go to everyone, including it's competitors?

    It's utterly bereft of logic, from every perspective.

    The bottom line is that unsubstantiated rumors have no value, and should obviously be viewed with heavy skepticism, before we even get to logically pulling them apart.

    I don't know why you would believe in this sort of self sabotage from AMD, after just one unsubstantiated rumor, but I also wonder Why does flat Earth belief still exist?

    I suspect the "reasoning" is similar.
     
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  25. 5150Joker

    5150Joker 2[H]4U

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    This is where AMD is going to stay viable long term. Hitting the midrange segment hard, IP licensing to China/Korea and semi custom design wins. NVIDIA has a shrinking discrete gaming pie (which they have to keep jacking the prices up on to maintain their margins), and some AI/Enterprise which Intel is coming for in a big way (not to mention automotive companies are now building their own self driving hardware like Tesla). If I were a betting man, I'd say NVIDIA is in some serious trouble over the next decade.

    What will really screw NVIDIA long term is cloud gaming because once Starlink and other high speed broadband solutions take off, a ton of people will start using Stadia and other competing services. Even consoles at some point will be hybrid cloud/fixed solutions. Where does NVIDIA fit in there? They could supply GPUs to whoever they win designs with but so far AMD is winning them all.
     
  26. 5150Joker

    5150Joker 2[H]4U

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    Did I ever claim that Vega was hobbled by Navi? I was commenting on the rumor and statements by Dr. Su that Navi architecture was built in conjunction with Sony and so I surmised Navi sales on consoles would help offset costs of Navi on the PC. With regards to Vega, I think AMD at that time had a shoe string budget and did what they could. But it is plausible that AMD leadership did focus more resources into Navi than Vega because long term pay off would be more substantial.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2019
  27. TheRookie

    TheRookie Limp Gawd

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    That's a terrible deflection that has nothing to do with what I said
     
  28. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

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    It's central to the rumor you constantly reference as fact.
     
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  29. 5150Joker

    5150Joker 2[H]4U

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    We've got AMD's CEO implying they built Navi pretty much for Sony but I guess she's lying too or just making shit up.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2019
  30. vjhawk

    vjhawk Limp Gawd

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    Navi looks mediocre from these stats. RTX 2070 performance for $500 woohoo! What makes this any better when Nvidia at least offers raytracing and Navi doesn't? Slightly better watt per performance?

    Traditionally AMD GPUs have run HOTTER and more hungry than Nvidia gpus while performing slightly slower. Can this reverse the trend?

    AMD has run out the RX series 3 consecutive years. Same gpu, different name. Can they at least improve on their midrange performance or is this just a 7nm rebadged RX 590?

    As for beating the 2080 Ti, not a chance in hell with that die size.

    AMD content for second place. Just market more buzzwords but medicore performance. Radeon VII was a joke and probably lost them more money than it made them. Navi looks to be same disappointing category.

    Why bother AMD if you just gonna mail it in? Gone are the days when they ship out 4870 or even 5870 that challenges for the title of fastest GPU. AMD produces cheap, bland, oatmeal video cards. It is safely profitable and nowhere fast enough for enthusiasts. Hate to see it but their CPU division far outstrips GPU division. They should just sell off Radeon brand to a 3rd party and focus on their CPUs at this rate.

    Sorry to come off negative but it feels like different day, same old s*** coming out from the red team on the GPU front.
     
  31. 5150Joker

    5150Joker 2[H]4U

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    Well shit, time for AMD to pack it in, vjhawk has spoken.
     
  32. TheRookie

    TheRookie Limp Gawd

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    Do you have a link for that?
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2019
  33. vjhawk

    vjhawk Limp Gawd

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    Whatever dude. I know AMD is marketing Navi for consoles. That is why the tech is dumbed down. It's a console technology that is ported for desktop usage. Navi is crap for a desktop graphics card but high end/next gen for consoles. It's profitable for AMD. But leaves desktop users hoping for real competition with Nvidia video cards out in the cold.

    The console world is what justifies dumbing down Navi. As long as it makes profit and AMD can sell millions of units to Sony, etc. why would they care about pushing desktop performance to the next level? It's still s***ty and I'll complain if I want to.
     
  34. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

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    So this never entered your mind that products have different sweet spots where they do a lot better then when they are being forced to operate beyond what there intended for ?

    Most if not all designs since Hawaii (R9 290x) run into severe problems when scaling. Meaning that if you force it to run at higher clocks it will damage the silicon because the amount of power needed is to large to get performance.

    Most of the console APU are required to run not only slower but have different goals the first goal is to be able to get cooled in a tighter space and still work well within TDP. This can not be broken because that will raise the cost of the console (since they are selling millions of them a very real problem cost wise).

    Both markets are totally different it is not that AMD won't make anything that competes with Nvidia it is that their budget doesn't allow them to. That is why people as Raja Koduri wanted to get on board with Intel because nearly all of the problems stem from not having enough R&D budget.

    You can ignore this and pretend you are a little blond girl and stamp your feet until you get what you want but in real life it does not work like that ......
     
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  35. NKD

    NKD [H]ardness Supreme

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    That is a dumb statement. It’s a scalable architecture. It’s not a game it’s hardware. No such thing as a GPU designed for consoles only and ported to desktop, you sound silly saying that lol.
     
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  36. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

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    It's like you invented a new game, try to get the ball through the ever moving goal posts.

    Are you now backing away from the nonsense rumor you have been defending as if it were fact?

    No she didn't say AMD designed the Navi Architecture for Sony. She said AMD designed a Navi based SoC for Sony, just like she will turn around and design one for Microsoft.
     
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  37. Silentbob343

    Silentbob343 [H]ard|Gawd

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    No, she is just using execu speak aka gilding the lily. She can't say "we developed this and thought it would be good enough for sony".
     
  38. tangoseal

    tangoseal [H]ardness Supreme

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    They never said they would.

    Ford never said the mustang competes with Ferrari yet someone out there probably bitched because it didn't.

    5150 I don't think this thread is for you homie. All you have done is napalm AMD the whole thread.
     
  39. Boil

    Boil [H]ard|Gawd

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    ... the GT350R has that flat plane crank... ;^p

     
  40. Oldmodder

    Oldmodder Gawd

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    GT 40, The sledgehammer (y) ,,,,,,,,,, and a thing to respect if you have your history in working order.
    And it just go to prove, that all of a sudden someone can drop a bomb on you, even if you think you have the market pretty much cornered.