AMD’s Navi GPU coming July Radeon RX 5700 OFFICIAL

Discussion in 'AMD Flavor' started by cybereality, May 27, 2019.

  1. Concillian

    Concillian Limp Gawd

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    No way this will be priced like a Vega 64. This is a die the size of a 1660 die. It's going to be $300 or less. This is a midrange die, looking to push people considering a 1660 up due to a big performance increase for a little more money and push the people looking at 2060 / 2070 down for similar performance at a lower price (or forcing nVidia to price these much lower). This is exactly what AMD did at pitcairn introduction. Nvidia's entire $200-350 lineup was made irrelevant on Pitcairn launch day and nVidia was forced to start selling cards they were previously selling at $300-350 at like $200 until they had a competing midrange product.
     
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  2. kirbyrj

    kirbyrj [H]ard as it Gets

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    I have a feeling it's going to be the rumored $399/$499 price scheme and average out to 2070 / Vega 64 +5% performance levels. With discounts/games, etc., it should average out to be the same performance as Nvidia's comparable part minus $50 with a higher power draw than the 2070 but lower than Vega 64.
     
  3. TheRookie

    TheRookie Limp Gawd

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    The die sizes are not comparable.

    7nm are much more expensive than 14nm.

    amd-wafer-price-png.png
     
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  4. TheRookie

    TheRookie Limp Gawd

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    Did you read what I said?

    GeForce RTX 2070 is 10% faster than Radeon RX Vega 64

    If it performs on par with the Radeon RX Vega 64, then it's quite slower than the GeForce RTX 2070.
     
  5. TheRookie

    TheRookie Limp Gawd

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    Well, the $349 GeForce RTX 2060 is almost as fast the GeForce GTX 1080
     
  6. Oldmodder

    Oldmodder Gawd

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    If i was AMD i would have made that Strange Brigade demo with a really really crappy driver, and so when the card is finally there and much better, people will generate their own buzz and the stuff will just fly of the shelves.
    But maybe thats due to my favor for the under dogs out there.

    We are buzzing now in a negative not hopeful way, so if AMD could pull a switcheroo on us in regard to what we would actually get, by then we would all be like OMG this is the best thing ever, and the only negative would again be the die hard fans of that other brand.
    And if AMD did that poor driver stunt, they could just say ( in all honesty ) well our driver team have really been hard at work, and we would all be " holy crap on a cracker" in they can do that much with a driver in a month, just imagine that they will have in 6 months.
     
  7. lightsout

    lightsout Gawd

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    Yes this is true, great card I had one. But go to sell one of those things and quickly learn that there is not a big market for them. With plenty of used 1080's around I had a hard time getting over $300 for mine ($379 version).

    Also looking at graphs on TPU it appears that the 2070 is a better card than I thought. Initially I thought the word was that it was basically equal to a 1080. But it looks like it is 15-20% better and only behind the 1080ti by about 5%.
     
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  8. Chimpee

    Chimpee [H]ard|Gawd

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    My bad, my brain was thinking RX 5700 is 10% faster than 2070 from their Strange Brigade benchmark, you are correct that RTX 2070 is faster than Vega 64.
     
  9. dvsman

    dvsman 2[H]4U

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    If I had to guess, AMD will let the RADEON VII hold their top spot for awhile. Use the lower end 5000 series Navi to get the driver bugs and whatnot worked out, then next year - maybe not Computex but E3 - announce the 5800 or higher models. Looking at the wattage, it does seem like they are using the savings from the 7nm die shrink to really crank up the clocks to improve performance (instead of becoming more power efficient).

    Of course around the same time, Nvidia could just drop their newer cards at that time as well (or sneakily wait for the AMD announcement THEN pounce with their '3000 series performs better' announcement as well).
     
  10. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I see local fora undervolting AMD GPUs to get surprisingly efficient results, but it'd be a first for AMD to release a gaming GPU that turns out to be more efficient at stock settings while matching average performance. They've come close in the past, but not since Kepler.
     
  11. sabrewolf732

    sabrewolf732 2[H]4U

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    just basing this off of the strange brigade benchmark I would guess it's going to be 5% faster than vega 64 on average and 5% slower than the rtx 2070 on average.

    It's going to be a really hard sell at 499.
     
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  12. Dayaks

    Dayaks [H]ardness Supreme

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    You mean DOA at $499. It needs to be $349-$399.
     
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  13. Auer

    Auer Gawd

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    Even at $399 it will be a slow seller without RTX unless it clearly beats the 2070 in more than just AMD friendly titles.
    Like it or not, to many buyers now RTX is a "Feature".

    Not saying it will be a failure, but rather just a bit slower selling than anticipated.

    Seems like an odd time to launch a 2070 competitor as the 2070 has been out for a while now.
    Unless it's aimed at the rather small #waitfornavi segment...

    Hoping it can post some good performance numbers.
     
  14. TangledThornz

    TangledThornz Gawd

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    I'm not expecting too much from Navi or GPUs in general this year. I expect the real fun to happen next year when Intel joins the game. Speaking of... when can we expect an Intel GPU sub forum? :)
     
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  15. Gideon

    Gideon 2[H]4U

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    Nah it's not a feature to almost everybody, RTX is pretty useless in it's current form as well unless your buying a 2080TI and even then it's at lower resolutions. People will only consider it a feature when they hear that even the lower end cards can run it well enough to make it playable. Also for the masses a 500 dollar card is not what they buy, 300 and less is that market.
     
  16. dvsman

    dvsman 2[H]4U

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    While I have a 2080ti in my current rig (switched from my Radeon VII) the RT was never a factor in my decision to switch. Nothing I have interest in (right now, other than work related things - it's Elder Scrolls Online / Division 2) has ray tracing in it. And that's the same for most people. If it isn't in an app you use, it might as well not even be there.

    People still want faster/fastest raster performance and that's not going to change anytime soon.
     
  17. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I agree with sentiments above. RT only becomes a factor when all else is equal.

    If I am choosing between two $400 cards that have the same Raster performance, then I will take the one with RT as a free bonus.

    But if the card without RT is faster, I would choose that one. I think this will be the case for most people.

    AMD will almost certainly offer better perf/$ in Raster if it doesn't have RT.
     
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  18. Bawjaws

    Bawjaws Limp Gawd

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    Agreed. So if it's a choice between VII or 2080 for £700, I'd pick the 2080. And if these new Navi cards match their Nvidia RTX equivalents on performance but are priced the same, many people will still choose Nvidia, which I think was Auer 's point.
     
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  19. kirbyrj

    kirbyrj [H]ard as it Gets

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    Well, I don't know about in the UK, but in the U.S., the Radeon VII is somewhere between $50-100 cheaper than a 2080. Sure there are cheaper variants that are priced around the same, but "founders edition" design is $100 more expensive.
     
  20. Chimpee

    Chimpee [H]ard|Gawd

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    If Sapphire pricing is true, I think it is even odder. I mean for folks who already own GTX 1080, RTX 2070 or Vega 64, I don't think the pricing justify the performance increase. For people in the RX 580 or GTX 1060 pricing segment and looking to upgrade from RX 580 or GTX 1060 or below, the card is price outside their range.

    Lets face it, the pricing for this generation stinks, started by Nvidia and follow suit by AMD.
     
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  21. DooKey

    DooKey [H]ardness Supreme

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    Pricing isn't going to drop until 7nm+ has been around for a bit. New nodes just keep going up up up in cost.
     
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  22. Auer

    Auer Gawd

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    I came from a RX580, when the RTX2070 went below $500.

    I guess time will tell how many people have been holding out for this to upgrade.
     
  23. Oldmodder

    Oldmodder Gawd

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    Well of course it is a AMD product and RTX are nvidia, so thats not going to happen, and also you seem to ignore a great many people cant really be bothered with RTX at the moment, even a lot of otherwise hardcore team green people.
    I couldn't care less, last "looker" of a game i played was the original crysis, and even then i had to lower eye candy as otherwise my computer at the time could not handle it.
    So i am sure what ever i get now, even non RTX titles or hardware will blow my socks off.
    Of course if you are a young gamer that have played every title for the past years i am sure you will be harder to impress when it come to eye candy, but i am at a age where when we gamed we turned all off or set to low and even lowered resolution on our CRT screens, so we could game at +200 Hz and + 200 FPS in the titles we played.
    Today's gamers cant do that due to pancake screens, and also today's gamers are pampered and spoiled for choice where i grew up on Atari machines and Amiga 500 before the age of PC.
     
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  24. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

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    It only stinks if you are buying :)

    At this point in time it is not even interesting to spend serious money on any graphics card. It is too expensive to start with and AMD is not coming out with their project that should solve a lot of design problems they have.
    After that I think even Intel is coming with their GPU so from a consumer perspective bad time to spend cash.......
     
  25. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I'll add that I agree that this is the casefor those not going toward a higher-end solution. The more people spend, the more they generally expect the part to stay relevant over time, the less a part missing new features will be worth. Meaning, that at the < US$200 level, more raster performance is all one can hope for, but at > US$350, hardware ray tracing will be desirable.

    The delta is going to be different for everyone, of course, and will depend on application, user expectation, and user upgrade cycle, as well as the actual retail cost delta.

    Navi's challenge is that it's being paired against the RTX 2070, and while some might jump at a slightly lower price and forego RT hardware, others might consider the extra cost worth the investment if they:
    • expect to play known RT titles (available or upcoming)
    • realize that for some of those titles they'll have to back off on the settings for RT
    • expect to keep their new GPU for a few release cycles
     
  26. illli

    illli [H]ard|Gawd

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    people complaining about price, blame nvidia. yes, them. take the AMD 570, superior to the nv 1050ti, and cheaper (when you factor the gm bundle), yet look on steam. the 570 is like 1/2 a % point or something vs the 1050ti being almost 9% usage. AMD trying to undercut the competition hasn't result in more sales. NV owning 70%-ish of discreet vga sales, means they can do things like move product stack up a price tier (the 2070 should never have been $499 or greater - at most a $399 product, but when you command that much market share you set the terms). AMD would probably sell the same amount of cards whether or not the price was the same or cheaper than the 2070, people are just that loyal to nv, and now we have overpriced products.
     
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  27. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Blame cryptocurrency.

    You don't factor in bundles in hardware comparisons. Individuals can, but not when generalizing.

    When you have owned both and compare them over time, you find that Nvidia has earned that 'loyalty', if you want to call it that, most especially at the high end, but also for mobile, both sectors where AMD essentially chooses not to compete (if they could).

    In the mid to low end, AMD tends to compete well enough, though many do hold their various shenanigans over the years against them. Their drivers were decidedly worse for a long, long time. Long enough that an architectural change in their lineup, that being something not based on GCN, is probably worth waiting a bit for. They also tend to run less efficiently at stock, and for whatever reason, come with inferior, louder coolers, especially blower coolers.


    This isn't as cut and dry as price / performance for most people.
     
  28. cybereality

    cybereality [H]ardness Supreme

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    My whole thing: all the people that are complaining about Nvidia's pricing. Well, buy AMD and see what happens. Don't like Windows spyware? Install Linux and see what happens.

    Nothing changes if you just complain on the internet and then still give money to the companies you claim to disagree with.
     
  29. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Or buy nothing- which is what most are doing :D
     
  30. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

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    People keep using this argument, but there are bunch of problems with it.

    1050Ti launched Oct 2016 at $140.
    570 launched: April 2017 at $170.

    Mining craze started almost immediately after the 570 launch, and AMD GPU were better for coin mining and were unavailable or crazy expensive. One of the few cards that seemed available during mining craze was the 1050Ti.

    October 2016 to well into 2018, the 1050Ti was cheaper and more available.

    It is only post mining bubble that 570 became cheap and available.

    So you really can't argue that 570 was cheaper, because that is just a relatively recent thing, and mining further made AMD cards even less available than NVidia cards (especially in the 570-580 range).
     
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  31. cybereality

    cybereality [H]ardness Supreme

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    Good point. There was a time when the *best* you could get at MSRP was a 1050 Ti.
     
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  32. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I got my 1080Ti at MSRP, for the blower version- and mine has the closed-loop cooler. Never thought I'd consider a US$700 GPU a steal until that point.
     
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  33. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

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    The problem is that they are complaining about Nvidia pricing in AMD threads. Find threads like Navi (different subject matter) there are 3 or 4 of them that always pop up and they don't take anything seriously. They even blame AMD for Nvidia pricing.

    If I buy a Toyota I'm not going to complain in the Porsche forum and yet here we are ....
     
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  34. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Cut the tribalism. This isn't r/ayyyamd.

    They're both to blame after the cryptocraze.


    These two companies are direct competitors. There is no discussion about one that exists in isolation from the other.
     
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  35. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

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    I was revering to you and some others. It has nothing to do with anything you mention here it is the total derailment of most AMD based threads.

    If you stop funding Nvidia they have no cash when they have no cash they can not produce gpu and when they got that message they will stop producing overpriced gpu for you to purchase. On the other hand if you keep feeding the troll they will keep trolling.
     
  36. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Again, tribalism. Make a better argument.

    This is an example of a poor argument.
     
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  37. Zareek

    Zareek Limp Gawd

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    I was interested until I saw the Verge. Screw them!!!
     
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  38. sc5mu93

    sc5mu93 [H]Lite

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    I'm hoping Nvidia SUPER event introduces 2070TI and 2060Ti (or SUPER or whatever) which leads to significant price drops for 2070 and 2060, thereby forcing Navi to launch at lower price points.
    I'm not going to buy nvidia because of OSS drivers, but I do want my Navi board to be cheaper.

    AMD has been doing pretty well in the linux OSS driver department as of late.

    competition is good for everyone.
     
  39. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Hard to imagine what they are thinking, since they already have tried and true Ti branding for that.

    I can't help but think of "Super" as something (wallet raping) above that.
     
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  40. Oldmodder

    Oldmodder Gawd

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    Yes as i said before Super probably also mean Premium price,,,,,, thats how it goes in most walks of life.
    E3 will probably be a O well moment for me, i really have to let this damn optimism go and be more doom and gloom.
    But i am more and more sure i will not get the Radeon VII, so it will probably end up with Navi or Nvidia something something.
    And i am still hoping AMD will give me the slightest excuse to go Navi, but at least i will have some time after Navi launch to decide on what to get, so no hurry here though the money are there already.