AMD's GPU '14 Product Showcase Webcast

mrmandude

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The proposal: Mantle. A low level high performance console style graphics API for PCs. It's being built by AMD. It's cross platform, but Windows initially. Battlefield 4 is the pilot project & first user of Mantle.
So looks like we'll see it as a cross platform initiative
 

serpretetsky

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um we already have DirectX(3D) and OpenGL why do we need another API thats locked on one set of hardware
He gave you all of the reasons in the video

PC problems-
No direct access to video memory
High latency access in general
Can't distribute directx or opengl calls across multiple cores.


I think there were more, can't remember
 

Elios

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He gave you all of the reasons in the video

PC problems-
No direct access to video memory
High latency access in general
Can't distribute directx or opengl calls across multiple cores.


I think there were more, can't remember
and GLIDE worked out so well for 3Dfx....
 

WorldExclusive

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um we already have DirectX(3D) and OpenGL why do we need another API thats locked on one set of hardware
DX is dated and OpenCL would ahve caught on by now if it was something of use on the gaming side for PCs.

I think MANTLE supported by AMD and a major publisher like EA will gain more traction.
Remember, AMD owns the console space, so if they want to do away with DX drivers, they can.
 

mrmandude

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did they say mantle was exclusive to AMD? i dont think so. its a frostbite feature
Given that it's a low level API, it might be. I wouldn't be surprised if it's something close to what they're offering for the next gen consoles in order to give developers some uniformity that the PC landscape desperately needs.

It's currently a frostbite + DX/Windows feature, but that's just the initial stage. They claimed it's going to be cross platform
 

Elios

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and if you want cross platform just use freaking OpenGL already
why make new API again tied on ONE hardware set
 

mrmandude

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and if you want cross platform just use freaking OpenGL already
why make new API again tied on ONE hardware set
Because it's derived from consoles and aimed at squeezing as much performance out of a given set of hardware as possible. If you're building something like that, you're set of tools aren't going to boost a competitor's performance purely because the architectures themselves are vastly different - and last I checked, AMD isn't going to pat nVidia's back after winning the next gen consoles.
 

WorldExclusive

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XB1 is using DirectX
PS4 is using there own ver of OpenGL
Yes. But they are making MANTLE cross platform to enhance PC performance.
What the consoles use individually is affecting PCs negatively.

Since AMD is in PCs and consoles, it's possible MANTLE will be of more use than OpenCL when developing multiplatform games.
 

mrmandude

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XB1 is using DirectX
PS4 is using there own ver of OpenGL
You're not understanding what this is...

- It's a beta.
- It's a trial run for Frostbite.
- It's a console-like low level API that allows developers to squeeze more performance out of a given architecture. For example, gamers have to buy $400 GPUs and $200 CPUs to get steady frame rates in games that look like crap, yet the amount of work actually being done is minimal and could have been achieved with hardware that's a quarter of the cost. Your 4 TFLOPs GPU that you spent boatloads of money on isn't anywhere near hitting it's theoretical throughput.
- It can't be hardware agnostic as it would defeat the purpose and eliminate the performance benefits (you can't make an API that optimizes for ALL hardware).
 

Elios

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You're not understanding what this is...

- It's a beta.
- It's a trial run for Frostbite.
- It's a console-like low level API that allows developers to squeeze more performance out of a given architecture. For example, gamers have to buy $400 GPUs and $200 CPUs to get steady frame rates in games that look like crap, yet the amount of work actually being done is minimal and could have been achieved with hardware that's a quarter of the cost. Your 4 TFLOPs GPU that you spent boatloads of money on isn't anywhere near hitting it's theoretical throughput.
- It can't be hardware agnostic as it would defeat the purpose and eliminate the performance benefits (you can't make an API that optimizes for ALL hardware).
fuck that noise
we got away from proprietary APIs in the 90s fuck if go back to that nightmare
 

Sacrilego

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I used to work QA for a couple of game companies many years back.

I was there when D3D (DirectX 3) was introduced to us.
We were forced to change from directdraw and glide to use the new API.
The d3d builds never ran as smooth as the glide builds, this could be due to beta drivers though. But the same with other games that had both d3d and glide versions.
I think it was more of 3dfx not keeping up NVidia after the tnt came out that killed glide.
 

mrmandude

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fuck that noise
we got away from proprietary APIs in the 90s fuck if go back to that nightmare
What?

Where the hell have you been the last 30 years? I'm sure you feel the exact same way about DirectX or nVidia's drivers too, right?

You've got to be trolling
 

Elios

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What?

Where the hell have you been the last 30 years? I'm sure you feel the exact same way about DirectX or nVidia's drivers too, right?

You've got to be trolling
last i checked DirectX ran on what ever hardware you wanted
same with OpenGL

not some shit API tied on ONE gen on ONE makers hardware
 

Sacrilego

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I thought mantle would run an whatever hardware you wanted?
Unlike PhysX which only runs on NVIDIA's hardware.
 

Elios

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and AMD could of had PhysX but they shot them selves in the foot on that
NV offered it to them
 

mrmandude

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last i checked DirectX ran on what ever hardware you wanted
same with OpenGL

not some shit API tied on ONE gen on ONE makers hardware
DirectX =! console low level hardware-oriented API. Mantle looks to be an API stack that's specifically built and caters to AMD's GCN architecture. It can't specifically cater to nVidia's architecture, because last I checked AMD didn't make Kepler and they're not releasing drivers for Kepler. I'm pretty sure nVidia made that.

And people give NVIDIA shit about PhysX...
It's not a dedicated co-processor. You can theoretically take PhysX and run it on AMD hardware (as a matter of fact, CPUs handle physics even better), but you can't take a low level API and run it on nVidia's hardware without nVidia's blessing, hard work, and engineers.
 

WorldExclusive

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last i checked DirectX ran on what ever hardware you wanted
same with OpenGL

not some shit API tied on ONE gen on ONE makers hardware
AMD has never been known to keep the features exclusive, but this is different.
I'm sure Nvidia will counter, just like when AMD shocked them with Eyefinity.

Nvidia will adapt and roll out their own low-level API. Then you'll be happy?
More performance and more complex games than can run on cheaper PCs. Can't see the where the hate is coming from.
 

Elios

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DirectX =! console low level hardware-oriented API. Mantle looks to be an API stack that's specifically built and caters to AMD's GCN architecture. It can't specifically cater to nVidia's architecture, because last I checked AMD didn't make Kepler and they're not releasing drivers for Kepler. I'm pretty sure nVidia made that.
.
again just like GLIDE
FUCK THAT
we have Direct X and OpenGL
if you want crossplatform then use OpenGL dont make a new API no one will use
thats going take dev time away from making game work decent on other hardware
4 years a go every one here would gone ape shit on this
now you give them a pass?
FUCK THAT

the industry moved away from hardware locked APIs once we do not need to go back to having 4 different APIs
 

Elios

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you want to know where this road goes? your not going to like it

it ends with fewer and shittier console ports and games locked to one GPU or the other since it will now cost MORE money to make them for at lest 2 APIs if not 3 or more

CALL OF DUTY 10 NOW ONLY ON NVIDIA
BATTLEFIELD 10 NO ONLY ON AMD

THATS where this ends
 
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