AMD's DirectX 11 Lead is 'Insignificant,' NVIDIA Says

Elledan said:
Nonsense. You think that any multi-platform game is first developed for PC? They start with the lowest common denominator (like the XBox 360) and then port it to others (PS3, PC). Virtually all of the games which got this treatment and also ended up running DX on Windows are watered down compared to what they could have been on a modern PC.
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how does Valve develop?

because when i played l4d on my friends 360, it sure felt like they tried to water down something made on PC and did a mediocre job on it.
 
Moofasa~ said:
Ok this needs to stop. Can you make one post without an inaccuracy?
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It just never was listed as a feature for the XBox 360 GPU. You could act nicer, though.

Gee went on to explain that DX11 tessellation was more robust and general than the solution built into current AMD GPUs. The AMD hardware uses essentially the same as the tessellation unit in the Xbox 360; DX11 tessellation is a superset of the AMD approach.
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http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2329315,00.asp

So it's the same HW tesselation unit one can use with OpenGL for the past few years. It is also less full-featured than the tesselation unit DX11 and thus my point still basically stands. It also reinforces that the XBox 360 uses a 3D API based loosely on D3D, as that one never used the exist tesselation engine.
 
DX10, 10.1, and 11 are pretty insignificant. Alot of companies and games are still using DX9!
 
SixtyWattMan said:
Now that's a fanboy rage.
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Perhaps, but it served as a palate-cleansing refreshment after pages of ATi worship. It also cleared up my constipation problem quite nicely!

Now, if you care to dispute the factual claims made in the "rage," I'm all ears.

Wow, that's a lot of body-part metaphors in one post. Interpret that however you will!
 
So it's the same HW tesselation unit one can use with OpenGL for the past few years. It is also less full-featured than the tesselation unit DX11 and thus my point still basically stands.
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No, AMD's tessellation extension to OpenGL (which only works with r6x0/r7x0) is not compatible with D3D 11's tessellation setup. It's a bit ridiculous to claim that OpenGL has supported tessellation for a few years when in reality it works only with select cards from a single IHV. Extensions that are not part of the core OpenGL specification (especially ones that are never used) don't count.

Beyond3D said:
The tessellator, however, is pretty new, an evolution of hardware that has been with us since Xenos/R600 (we really can't count the 8500's TruForm in this lineage, at least not whilst maintaining a straight face). It's fully DX11 compliant, allowing up to 64X amplification (although for real-time applications that's not exactly a realistic scenario), and supports both continuous and adaptive tessellation. Unlike its forebearers, which were controlled via vertex shaders, in DX11 there are 2 new shader types intended precisely for tessellation, namely Domain and Hull shaders.
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Moofasa~ said:
No, AMD's tessellation extension to OpenGL (which only works with r6x0/r7x0) is not compatible with D3D 11's tessellation setup. It's a bit ridiculous to claim that OpenGL has supported tessellation for a few years when in reality it works only with select cards from a single IHV. Extensions that are not part of the core OpenGL specification (especially ones that are never used) don't count.
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Didn't I say it wasn't compatible? The point I was making is that the X360 doesn't have DX11-like tesselation features available in hardware either.
 
bfellow said:
DX10, 10.1, and 11 are pretty insignificant. Alot of companies and games are still using DX9!
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This. I have to agree with nvidia on this one. I could give a **** about directx 11 support until I run into a game that has some great reason to have it.
 
im still waiting for another game changer that was the 9700 Pro. hopefully furgi will be it. ;)
 
ATi's 5000 series is that game changer in my opinion, if for no other reason than the incredible energy savings. My system now runs a full 100w lower at idle than it did with the 4850's in crossfire I was previously running...for what I pay on electric bills this is huge. Add in the fact that the 5870 runs rings around any other single GPU for now (no matter what GPU your talking about "for now" always applies) then Im not seeing any down side at all to buying a 5870...yeah someday another card will be faster, but the same will be true for nVidia's card when it comes out. Live in the moment people...today ATi is on top...tomorrow is for tomorrow.
 
one swell foop said:
DX11 isn't everything......
I want eyefinity. If I get DX11 compatible hardware with it, so much the better.
I'm still pissed that I can't run multiple monitors off of my SLi setup, and it's going to take a hell of a lot from nVidia if they want my next 2 or 3 generations of video hardware to be their products.

Are you listening nVidia? You can start by releasing a drive update that allows mulitview with SLi setups......
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^^ this
 
Who cares? DX11 means nothing to me. I care more about reliability and driver stability, which ATI SUCKS balls on.
 
jadesaber2 said:
Right, and nVidia drivers have never been anything less than rock-solid.

Oh, wait. :rolleyes:
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Whatever. Ive never had an major issue with an nvidia driver. I never said they were perfect. Ive had to run driver cleaner a few times on old systems, but thats it.

The ATI driver set? 150mb wank fest download, and screws up your .NET installation so you cant actually do any work. Hi, heres 100's of laptops here at work, all bricked by the ATI driver set. Tooks us WEEKS to figure it out. We still run generic windows drivers for all our laptops here.
 
nvidia drivers have been very good lately, there first vista driver was terrible, but they have made up that by delivery rock solid updates for a while now.

the 5 series is defintely not a game changer. it's a nice card, but it's not the voodoo2, ti4600, 9700pro or 8800gtx.

If there is a game changer my money is on fermi, because i think it opens alot of possiblities to developers with it's very powerful graphical and cuda ablities.
 
Monkey God said:
Whatever. Ive never had an major issue with an nvidia driver.
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Your personal experiences are irrelevant. He linked you to a forum thread for you to base your opinion of NVIDIA on! The time for enjoying the ability to form your own opinion of NVIDIA is over, I'm afraid :)
 
Monkey God said:
Whatever. Ive never had an major issue with an nvidia driver. I never said they were perfect. Ive had to run driver cleaner a few times on old systems, but thats it.

The ATI driver set? 150mb wank fest download, and screws up your .NET installation so you cant actually do any work. Hi, heres 100's of laptops here at work, all bricked by the ATI driver set. Tooks us WEEKS to figure it out. We still run generic windows drivers for all our laptops here.
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I've never had issues with ATI drivers.. but then again I've never had issues with nVidia drivers either.

I'm not sure what you're doing at work that relies on ATI drivers so heavily, unless you're graphics designers or CAD designers - but still, I can't see it causing problems with ATI-based computers.
 
Monkey God said:
Whatever. Ive never had an major issue with an nvidia driver. I never said they were perfect. Ive had to run driver cleaner a few times on old systems, but thats it.

The ATI driver set? 150mb wank fest download, and screws up your .NET installation so you cant actually do any work. Hi, heres 100's of laptops here at work, all bricked by the ATI driver set. Tooks us WEEKS to figure it out. We still run generic windows drivers for all our laptops here.
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Catalyst 9.12 size = 69.5mb
Nvidia 195.62 = 133mb

Told status
[ ] Not Told
[X] Told
 
DX11 is important to MS because it helps sell their new OS to gamers. ATI likes it because it helps sell their new cards to gamers.

I read this review of Dirt 2 and it's use of DX11:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/dirt-2-performance-benchmark,2508.html

Not really much to write home about with DX11 as of now. I've been out of the gaming deal for a while now but i'm not impressed. I'm sure as things develop new games will show more of a difference, that didn't really happen with DX10, at least not substantially. The real kicker is Dirt 2 runs the DX9 code path for people with DX10 capable cards and OS. Of course people will say the game sucks, Codemaster's sucks, etc..I disagree, I like their racing games and I think they're well done for the most part.
 
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