AMD's best Big Navi GPU may only be a match for Nvidia Ampere's second tier

Latest leak from Kopite, take it for what you will, he's either full of shit (I think he sources his info from ChipHell) or Big Navi might be pretty good:

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https://twitter.com/kopite7kimi/status/1300440732642148354?s=20

My guess is it will fall inbetween 3080 and 3090 for their top card.
 
cybereality said:
Strong in the knees perhaps...

I do wish this rumor to be true, though.
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Hehe yeah who knows, there's been very little information leaked regarding Big Navi. I guess AMD could make last minute tweaks to it by upping clocks/voltages via vbios to get a higher performance tier out of it if they need to after seeing what NVIDIA has available. I just hope they can get within 10% of 3090. This NVIDIA conference will really decide if I get a 3090 or not depending on the price and what kind of performance we're talking about. Otherwise I'll keep waiting on Big Navi and hope it delivers.
 
I do believe AMD has something big.

The fact that Nvidia went all out with the size and power means they are afraid to lose the crown.

I'm pretty certain we are talking better than 2080 Ti performance, but by how much?

Best guess is that Nvidia will still take it with the 3090, but AMD has a shot to do something interesting here. I hope they don't waste it.
 
I hope they don't do a last minute BIOS tweak again.
They should focus on outputting their honest best. Not trying to force a slightly weaker card to perform in a way it shouldn't.

AMD needs to form a reliable and stable foundation before they try to reach higher.

Either way, I will be seriously considering going AMD over Nvidia, especially if Nvidia wants to play some elitism game of extremely high prices.
 
I love these rumor threads, everyone gets so serious!

Here, i'll throw my speculation in:

Since the 3090 is supposed to be $1400, and the 3080 is supposed to be $800, my guess is that Nvidia's spies over at AMD are telling them Big Navi will fall somewhere between those two performance wise. That allows Nvidia to still overcharge for top card, but try to under-cut AMD on possibly the closest competition. Keep in mind though, Nvidia is happy to charge next-tier pricing for a similar-performing card. (See 2060/2070 Super VS 5700/5700XT pricing)

So a guess (which is all any of us have) is Big Navi = 3080 ti/super? performance for $800-ish
Again... Nvidia doesn't care if Big Navi has better price/performance, as long as they have something kind of close, and that they also have the highest performing card on the consumer market.

3090 - $1400 - King of GPUs... Nvidia can charge whatever they want
3080 - $800 - Same price as Big Navi but has slightly worse performance
3070 - $600 - Same Price (or maybe less) as littlebig Navi and has same or slightly worse performance

EDIT: Also, as for the AIB "leak" "sources" ... etc...
If I were a strategist at AMD, and trying to keep things hushed outside of engineering circles within AMD itself, I would have the people writing the VBIOS underclock and over-volt the pre-release/engineering sample VBIOS, and make sure there's BIOS limits on what the AIB's can do to mitigate it. Only let the heads of the AIBs know to expect a final VBIOS update that will change the performance, but power/heat should remain about the same.

Tada... no usable leaks from AIBs until cards go into mass production... Even though it would likely screw over some AIBs that didn't understand what was going on and "forgot" to update the VBIOS for production runs.
 
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cybereality said:
I do believe AMD has something big.

The fact that Nvidia went all out with the size and power means they are afraid to lose the crown.

I'm pretty certain we are talking better than 2080 Ti performance, but by how much?

Best guess is that Nvidia will still take it with the 3090, but AMD has a shot to do something interesting here. I hope they don't waste it.
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I don't think that will be hard as the rumors are pointing to the 3070 having 2080Ti performance for $599. I'm guessing it will be in the same ballpark as the 3080 with slightly higher rasterization performance and lower RT performance. Also it will have more memory than the 3080.
 
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It is cute you people think big Navi will be higher performance then a 3080. It will be about 10% slower then the 3080 at best. I am thinking it will be around 2080ti.
 
vegeta535 said:
It is cute you people think big Navi will be higher performance then a 3080. It will be about 10% slower then the 3080 at best. I am thinking it will be around 2080ti.
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How do you come to that conclusion (honest question, not jabbing)? Even at conservative clocks without any core efficiency gains for Navi 2 and only 72 CUs, Big Navi should be 15-20% faster than 2080 ti. It's more likely going to be even faster. 5700 XT is within 30% performance of 2080 ti. Add 45% more CUs (40 vs 72), you're getting notably more performance than 2080 ti, and that's not taking any core efficiency gains into account which RDNA 2 almost certainly will provide.

From recent rumours 3080 sounds like it's going to be 15-20% faster than 2080 ti. I think Big Navi (e.g. 6800 XT) and 3080 are going to be very close. If anything Big Navi will be markedly faster.
 
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harmattan said:
From recent rumours 3080 sounds like it's going to be 15-20% faster than 2080 ti. I think Big Navi (e.g. 6800 XT) and 3080 are going to be very close. If anything Big Navi will be markedly faster.
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nvidia livestream today said 3080 is 2x as fast as 2080.
dubious? They say this is the biggest generation jump in nvidia's history. So it'd have to be > 70% right because wasn't about the previous high water mark?
 
Archaea said:
nvidia livestream today said 3080 is 2x as fast as 2080.
dubious? They say this is the biggest generation jump in nvidia's history. So it'd have to be > 70% right because wasn't about the previous high water mark?
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You might want to take a look at this.

 
Welll. It’s common sense to assume big Navi will be fairly fast. At minimum I expect it to match 3080 because 3090 is just up there and no one really cares about that when it comes to market share and 1500.

specs on big Navi are there. I think it’s foolish to believe it won’t be competitive.
 
AMD will likely catch 3080, but they will pretty much have to double 5700Xt to do that, and then aren't even going to be able to price it much beyond 5700XT pricing if they hope to make a splash.

Time will tell, but I expect NVidia pretty much just cut AMD off at the knees today IMO, with excellent price and performance.

I don't think many people will be waiting Big Navi now, unless AMD announces some very juicy details soon.
 
AMD may catch the 3080 for straight performance but I wonder what their answer to DLSS, AI, and the slew of NVidia software tools that they launched today is going to be. I mean I don't get a huge amount of gaming in but the overall package that NVidia has put together is pretty compelling. Most of the titles announced for 2021 onwards has DLSS 2 or 3 support and its being back ported to a number of popular titles. If they don't have an answer to these tools than simply matching them with those benefits turned off isn't going to be enough. I await AMD's presentation but it's going to have to be one hell of a show.
 
Lakados said:
AMD may catch the 3080 for straight performance but I wonder what their answer to DLSS, AI, and the slew of NVidia software tools that they launched today is going to be. I mean I don't get a huge amount of gaming in but the overall package that NVidia has put together is pretty compelling. Most of the titles announced for 2021 onwards has DLSS 2 or 3 support and its being back ported to a number of popular titles. If they don't have an answer to these tools than simply matching them with those benefits turned off isn't going to be enough. I await AMD's presentation but it's going to have to be one hell of a show.
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Have you looked at the original list nvidia promised? While I agree it’s a good package. I don’t buy it for what it being promised for what’s not out yet. Been there done that before. I buy for what’s here and now. Don’t be surprised if half of those games say f this we don’t have time for this.
 
NKD said:
Have you looked at the original list nvidia promised? While I agree it’s a good package. I don’t buy it for what it being promised for what’s not out yet. Been there done that before. I buy for what’s here and now. Don’t be surprised if half of those games say f this we don’t have time for this.
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It's already added to the engines, Unreal, Unity, Frostbite, Lumberyard, Cryengine. So the heavy lifting is done. DLSS 3.0 works in conjunction with TAA so any title that uses TAA can use DLSS with a very minor amount of work, I expect to be seeing a lot more of it than not.
 
NKD said:
Have you looked at the original list nvidia promised? While I agree it’s a good package. I don’t buy it for what it being promised for what’s not out yet. Been there done that before. I buy for what’s here and now. Don’t be surprised if half of those games say f this we don’t have time for this.
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I think AMD might have a market sub =< $400 but very limited above that if they aren't actively supporting RT and such. Especially with the games coming out (CP2077).
 
polonyc2 said:
the fact that Nvidia priced the 3070 and 3080 so competitively tells me that Big Navi is the real deal and Nvidia is concerned...
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Or they wanted to bitch slap AMD now , and again with a 3060 and 3080ti later on.

Have yet to see any reason to think different , I've heard "just wait for AMD's answer" for over a decade now in video cards.
 
Dahkoht said:
Or they wanted to bitch slap AMD now , and again with a 3060 and 3080ti later on.

Have yet to see any reason to think different , I've heard "just wait for AMD's answer" for over a decade now in video cards.
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Not that Ampere is not impressive but AMD really stopped being competitive with the launch of pascal which was 2016, prior to that they were fairly competitive since the launch of the 9700pro.
 
Dayaks said:
I think AMD might have a market sub =< $400 but very limited above that if they aren't actively supporting RT and such. Especially with the games coming out (CP2077).
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Why won't they support RT when Xbox and ps5 will support it. That's a given at this point.
 
NKD said:
Why won't they support RT when Xbox and ps5 will support it. That's a given at this point.
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The hardware will be there, but Nvidia has put in a lot of work with developers between RTX and DLSS to make RT work... at all.

The highlight of the consoles isn't RT... it's... accelerated storage compression. For engines that don't use RT.

So yeah, it's a given that AMD is shipping hardware with RT, what's not a given is having the rest of the ecosystem in place.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
The hardware will be there, but Nvidia has put in a lot of work with developers between RTX and DLSS to make RT work... at all.

The highlight of the consoles isn't RT... it's... accelerated storage compression. For engines that don't use RT.

So yeah, it's a given that AMD is shipping hardware with RT, what's not a given is having the rest of the ecosystem in place.
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Well they made effort but developers still failed to deliver.

no matter how much we want to deny it. Consoles drive adoption. So if developers do jump on board with RT features it will be because it’s universally featured now and they are not just limited to NVIDIA’s. That’s why we didn’t see mass adoption already no matter how hard nvidia tried. Kudos to them for starting though. Now it will benefit them as well.
 
NKD said:
Well they made effort but developers still failed to deliver.
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Yeah they did. Fun part is that it works quite well when implemented properly; not fast on Turing, but not unplayable.

Much of that was due to Nvidia working with developers.

NKD said:
Consoles drive adoption.
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Sort of? Reality is that all of the big engines already have all of the plumbing ready. Every major engine house already develops cross-platform, from phones to Nintendo to Nvidia's fastest. They all have that tech ready for Nvidia, because they've had support from Nvidia and had RT hardware for years.

The question is whether that ecosystem is portable over to AMD. If AMD is shipping Turing-level RT hardware and doesn't have an answer for DLSS, where does that leave them on the desktop?

Desktop games are going forward with RT regardless.
 
polonyc2 said:
the fact that Nvidia priced the 3070 and 3080 so competitively tells me that Big Navi is the real deal and Nvidia is concerned...
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Still pricey. The 3070 has an MSRP of $500, which is a lot for a **70. Realistically it will be $550 and it still only has 8GB. I'm not sure if I'd spend that kind of money for 8GB to keep for 2+ years, especially if I upgrade to an ultra wide monitor. Last thing I want is to run out of VRAM in upcoming games.
 
Flogger23m said:
Still pricey. The 3070 has an MSRP of $500, which is a lot for a **70. Realistically it will be $550 and it still only has 8GB. I'm not sure if I'd spend that kind of money for 8GB to keep for 2+ years, especially if I upgrade to an ultra wide monitor. Last thing I want is to run out of VRAM in upcoming games.
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the 3070 is rumored to have better performance then a 2080ti which costs ~$1200...so looking at it like that the 3070 looks like a fantastic deal...the 3070 is also rumored to be getting a 16GB variant
 
polonyc2 said:
even if it's the same, the 3070 seems like the much better deal (16GB version being the real deal)
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Just addressing your statement. FWIW, I have seen nothing real about 16GB 3070 cards.
 
Marees said:
What is the performance per watt (rasterization) improvement of the 3070 over the 2070/2070super ?
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Dunno, going to have to calculate that for yourself. I don't spend time on the test bench any more. :)
 
FrgMstr said:
Just addressing your statement. FWIW, I have seen nothing real about 16GB 3070 cards.
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That is what I am waiting on for confirmation. Kind of doubting they'd do them though at least any time soon.

I worry about 8GB if I go 3440x1440 with an HD texture mod within the next 2 years. My old GTX 1070 had 8GB 4 something years ago.
 
Flogger23m said:
That is what I am waiting on for confirmation. Kind of doubting they'd do them though at least any time soon.

I worry about 8GB if I go 3440x1440 with an HD texture mod within the next 2 years. My old GTX 1070 had 8GB 4 something years ago.
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Double density memory on those boards is not cheap either.
 
vegeta535 said:
It is cute you people think big Navi will be higher performance then a 3080. It will be about 10% slower then the 3080 at best. I am thinking it will be around 2080ti.
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FrgMstr said:
Care to place a wager on that?
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I'll play behind Kyle on this one. If Big Navi is not a big chunk faster than than the 2080 Ti, I'll donate $100 to the charity of your choice.

If it is, I'll donate $100 to the [H]ardforum Patreon and $100 to a cancer charity of Kyle's choice.

And I know that I'll be reminded of this.
 
Iratus said:
I'll play behind Kyle on this one. If Big Navi is not a big chunk faster than than the 2080 Ti, I'll donate $100 to the charity of your choice.

If it is, I'll donate $100 to the [H]ardforum Patreon and $100 to a cancer charity of Kyle's choice.

And I know that I'll be reminded of this.
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Make a Wish is my go-to.
 
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