AMD's Barcelona Secrecy Betrays Its Belief Intel Can Match It?

ddarko said:
Let's accept as true AMD's explanation that the reason it doesn't want to release benchmarks for Barcelona is to limit Intel's ability to react. But doesn't that suggest that AMD believes that Intel's chips have the capacity to, if not match, at least get pretty close to the performance of Barcelona? I believe AMD when it says K10 outperforms Core 2 but I don't think AMD is worried about Core 2, it's worried about Penryn. I think one reason Intel was so free with Core 2 info was that it knew AMD simply COULDN'T react. I think AMD's secrecy with Barcelona benchmarks betrays its own belief that Intel can push Penryn hard enough to put up a good fight with Barcelona. That's not exactly encouraging for AMD and it makes me doubt whether Barcelona will give AMD the breathing room to get its bearings again.
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Will Penryn be clocked over 5ghz...? No 4.5Ghz No, 4.1ghz NO. ... Will 50%+ over C2Q be reached with Penryn at 3.2ghz vs 3ghz C2Q? No (Problem? YES)... Will a 2.5ghz K10 be 50% faster then C2Q at 3ghz? Yes. Will intel need a 5.5ghz Penryn to counter a 2.5ghz K10 effectively? (5Ghz+ is needed to make a over 50% performance advantage valid) YES YES YES. Don't forget K10 also has SSE4a you know. Intel doesn't have any instruction set advantages.

"besides Hi-K Metal gates witch is a process that makes transistors faster also reduces leakage and makes lower powered cpus sure thats what they are talking about they will have better performance at lower watts wile getting a higher MHZ speed, that has nothing to do with its true performance, It will perform only slightly better performance to performance with a C2Q, the CPU's cycles per clock will hardly be effected only by instruction set tweeks (Just like AMD's), maybe with MHZ ups but thats about it with lower watts and heat. Sorry. :( Penryn only gets a instruction set boost that make it appear faster when its only just been tweaked. Its just a die smirk really with some fancy words that give it a higher performance per watt factor not a real difference besides the SSE4i add on. AMD has the same thing.)
 
Serge84 said:
Will Penryn be clocked over 5ghz...? No 4.5Ghz No, 4.1ghz NO. ... Will 50%+ over C2Q be reached with Penryn at 3.2ghz vs 3ghz C2Q? No (Problem? YES)... Will a 2.5ghz K10 be 50% faster then C2Q at 3ghz? Yes. Will intel need a 5.5ghz Penryn to counter a 2.5ghz K10 effectively? (5Ghz+ is needed to make a over 50% performance advantage valid) YES YES YES. Don't forget K10 also has SSE4a you know. Intel doesn't have any instruction set advantages.

"besides Hi-K Metal gates witch is a process that makes transistors faster also reduces leakage and makes lower powered cpus sure thats what they are talking about they will have better performance at lower watts wile getting a higher MHZ speed, that has nothing to do with its true performance, It will perform only slightly better performance to performance with a C2Q, the CPU's cycles per clock will hardly be effected only by instruction set tweeks (Just like AMD's), maybe with MHZ ups but thats about it with lower watts and heat. Sorry. :( Penryn only gets a instruction set boost that make it appear faster when its only just been tweaked. Its just a die smirk really with some fancy words that give it a higher performance per watt factor not a real difference besides the SSE4i add on. AMD has the same thing.)
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Will a judge send Serge to get proffesional help if a give him a print of this post ?
 
quadnad said:
Although their Q4 2006 results show that they still made a profit on their "computational products segment."

We'll see if AMD is keeping quiet for the right or wrong reasons in a little while. I'm sure ES Barcelonas will be trickling onto the web in the next month or so.
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But AMD the company lost 587 Million US Dollars Q4-06. Intel lost a lot of money is the flash RAM market as well. That's no excuse.
 
ddarko said:
Let's accept as true AMD's explanation that the reason it doesn't want to release benchmarks for Barcelona is to limit Intel's ability to react. But doesn't that suggest that AMD believes that Intel's chips have the capacity to, if not match, at least get pretty close to the performance of Barcelona? I believe AMD when it says K10 outperforms Core 2 but I don't think AMD is worried about Core 2, it's worried about Penryn. I think one reason Intel was so free with Core 2 info was that it knew AMD simply COULDN'T react. I think AMD's secrecy with Barcelona benchmarks betrays its own belief that Intel can push Penryn hard enough to put up a good fight with Barcelona. That's not exactly encouraging for AMD and it makes me doubt whether Barcelona will give AMD the breathing room to get its bearings again.
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QFT! Paper Launched yesterday. AMD's actions are what they are, stalling tactics. Intel does the same thing when AMD knows what punches they are about to throw. Even if Barkie is faster, AMD will have a tuff sell trying to get folks to pay high prices. They'll have no choice or they'll loose more money Will folks pay 50% more for less than 10% improvement? The 10% figure comes from XtremeSystems.org, leaked.
 
Donnie27 said:
But AMD the company lost 587 Million US Dollars Q4-06. Intel lost a lot of money is the flash RAM market as well. That's no excuse.
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I never said it was an excuse, I was just pointing out that although there was a drop in demand, AMD was still making money on CPUs.
 
Donnie27 said:
Will folks pay 50% more for less than 10% improvement? The 10% figure comes from XtremeSystems.org, leaked.
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Is that 10% over Kentsfield or 10% over Penryn?
If the former, then Penryn will already waltz over it...
If the latter, then Intel can probably close the gap by ramping up the clockspeed as 45 nm matures.
 
Scali2 said:
Is that 10% over Kentsfield or 10% over Penryn?
If the former, then Penryn will already waltz over it...
If the latter, then Intel can probably close the gap by ramping up the clockspeed as 45 nm matures.
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Kentsfield:)
 
quadnad said:
I never said it was an excuse, I was just pointing out that although there was a drop in demand, AMD was still making money on CPUs.
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But that is the excuse because AMD isn't limited just CPUs, just as Intel isn't. Last thing I saw said AMD isn't making money on its CPU's. They said slow sales and lower prices have them in the Red!
 
savantu said:
Will a judge send Serge to get proffesional help if a give him a print of this post ?
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common on, lets not get a thread closed because you disagree with someones opinion, if its just that wrong just ignore it, do not flame the poster.

Donnie27 said:
QFT! Paper Launched yesterday. AMD's actions are what they are, stalling tactics. Intel does the same thing when AMD knows what punches they are about to throw. Even if Barkie is faster, AMD will have a tuff sell trying to get for to pay the prices they'll have no choice to put on them. Will folks pay 50% more for less than 10% improvement? The 10% figure comes from XtremeSystems.org, leaked.
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could you give a link to this 10% figure, cause I do not see it anywhere.
 
Azhar said:
well the pay's good and the boss's really nice. I really don't give a damn what she orders. I'm not the one using them. I use my personal laptop at work. lol

I pretty much fire it up for the first time and remove all the crap HP/Compaq pre-installs on them, and it's almost as good as if it wasn't HP's laptop.

It's all good.
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is she hot?
 
As I Lay Dying said:
common on, lets not get a thread closed because you disagree with someones opinion, if its just that wrong just ignore it, do not flame the poster.

could you give a link to this 10% figure, cause I do not see it anywhere.
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Do a search in their forums?
 
mastercheeze said:
Since you brought it up, how about YOU do a search and post the link. I couldn't find it either.
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I don't need to search since I already saw it LOL! If you doubt, then that's up to you. I honestly don't care what you believe or not.
 
Donnie27 said:
I honestly don't care what you believe or not.
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you obviously do, otherwise you wouldn't post in the amd forum ;)


i'm also confused by your pay 50% more for 10% more performance statement.
1. where have you seen prices?
2. more importantly, where have you seen conclusively that the performance is gonna be 10% better than kentsfield?
 
(cf)Eclipse said:
you obviously do, otherwise you wouldn't post in the amd forum ;)


i'm also confused by your pay 50% more for 10% more performance statement.
1. where have you seen prices?
2. more importantly, where have you seen conclusively that the performance is gonna be 10% better than kentsfield?
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You're not making sense here;) Wombat and others at Xtreme systems, after a few fake posts, told of real tests of Barkie and said/gave the 10% figure. The question was simply would someone pay 50% more to gain 10% performance.

No, I don't care what one poster says and that has NOTHING to do with posting the AMD side of the forum. This ONE person is NOT AMD LOL!
 
w1retap said:
If you meant Barcelona, that doesn't have a "k" in it, nor does it have a "kay" sound. It is pronounced "bar-seh-loan-uh". Sound it out.
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I keep imagining a large-breasted spanish woman wearing a tight red dress saying it....rolling the r....mmmmmm

anywho, I'd love to see some benchmarks (and not something like SuperPi...something normal people use)
 
w1retap said:
What is a Barkie? A Bob Barker? A dog? :confused:

If you meant Barcelona, that doesn't have a "k" in it, nor does it have a "kay" sound. It is pronounced "bar-seh-loan-uh". Sound it out.
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Barc is pronounced the same as Bark LOL! I have a friend named Marc;)

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Cite This Source

Bar·ce·lo·na Hear it? / Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[bar-suh-loh-nuh; Sp. bahr-the-law-nah] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

Sorry if you don't like Barkie for short LOL!
 
I thought you were just mentally challenged or didn't get all the way though school. I didn't want to say too much.. lol. :p
 
Donnie27 said:
I don't need to search since I already saw it LOL! If you doubt, then that's up to you. I honestly don't care what you believe or not.
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I agree with you. I couldnt find that 10% figure either, but people google exists for a reason, and will work if used properly.

I agree with you.
 
duby229 said:
I agree with you. I couldnt find that 10% figure either, but people google exists for a reason, and will work if used properly.

I agree with you.
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If it rocks, has a good price and I'll sell one of my old computers and Barkie be added to my collection:) If all goes well, I'll add a 4600+ as another bud upgrades and I'll try to get his leftovers LOL!
 
mastercheeze said:
manny calavera will post more well-thought out analysis in here in 3....2...
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I did ? where is it ? where in this thread is my response in 3...2...1 from yours ? :D


If AMD's Barcelona kicks ass,as it should given the little we know,and I am in the market for a upgrade,I will be more then happy to buy into it at the time.Right now Intel offers the best bang for my buck,so Intel gets my money as far as cpu's go.With video,right now,Nvidia has AMD under its boot,so my money is with Nvidia.I own both AMD and ATI hardware as well Intel and Nvidia.My wife uses my older X2 3800+ and Asus 7800GT,and my daughter uses an Intel 1.6A @ 2.56Ghz + ATi 9800 pro.I call em like I see em :)
 
You know only what 8 months ago most of you who are ranting over how Intel will beat AMD with whatever they put out. Were only 8 months ago AMD fans am I right. I'm still an AMD fan and never will go Intel because of how they screwed me over years ago.

And to comment on this:

Uh, no. The decision-makers and IT professionals don't visit Best Buy to get their 2P system. Those working in electronics store always push to their customers to buy NOW. Not later.

instead of 2P system it is W4 and if we didn't we mine as well go out of business because we would just be educating the public. It is not because we are on commission because we aren't if you didn't know that. Also, did you know the circuit city is so the are just preasuring you to buy to get credit.

Right now I'm typing this still in my Best Buy shrit even thought i got off over an hour ago. But, that is only because i have no life but not many people who talk on forums do so :p HEHE
 
Here's the thing... with the Barcelona be under $250?

Cause by July I'll be able to grab a 6600 for $250...

Is the performance increase worth however much more it'll cost? :rolleyes:

I was Intel/Nvidia (Penitum 3 Days), then AMD/ATI (XP 2500, and 64 3200+ / 9800 Pro), now I'm at AMD/Nvidia (X2 4200 + 8800GTS)... going to hop to Intel/Nvidia...

I'm not a fanboy for any company, I go where the performance/value is... and it's not with ATI/AMD anymore...
 
Bar·ce·lo·na Hear it? / Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[bar-suh-loh-nuh; Sp. bahr-the-law-nah] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
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Actually people from Spain pronounce it Baath-e-lona. ;)
 
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=2972&p=3

For easier comparison we took the two quad-core chips (Yorkfield vs. Kentsfield) and looked at performance scaling between the two:

Benchmark Yorkfield Performance Advantage
3DMark '06 V1.1.0 Pro CPU (score) : 21.8%
3DMark '06 V1.1.0 Pro Overall (score) : 7.6%
Mainconcept H.264 Encoder (seconds) : 18.0%
Cinebench R9.5 (CPU test) 24.9%
Cinebench R10 Beta (CPU test) 25.5%
HL2 Lost Coast Build 2707 (fps) : 37.3%
DivX 6.6 Alpha w/ VirtualDub 1.7.1 (seconds) 111%


The Yorkfield system runs at a 13.6% higher clock speed than the Kentsfield system giving it an inherent advantage, but that's clearly not all that's making it faster. Half-Life 2 went up an expected 21.8% (we're assuming that Intel ran these numbers at 1024 x 768), and Cinebench saw a 25% increase in performance.

The DivX 6.6 test is particularly strong for Intel because it is using an early alpha version of DivX with support for SSE4. With SSE4 support, the quad-core Yorkfield processor ends up being more than 50% faster than Kentsfield, which bodes very well for Penryn if applications like DivX can bring SSE4 support in time for launch.

Final Words
Obviously we'll reserve final judgments on Penryn for our official review of the CPU, but these initial results look very promising. We would expect to see clock for clock Penryn vs. Conroe improvements to be in the 5 - 10% range at minimum depending on the application. Factor in higher clock speeds and you can expect our CPU performance charts to shift up by about 20% by the end of this year.

Intel has shown its cards, now it's time for AMD to respond with those long overdue Barcelona tests...
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:D
 
duby229 said:
There is nothing in that quote that says Barcelona will be 10% faster... Besides those numbers are pretty much worthless. Did Anand run those benches, on a system that he configured? Until then they mean nothing...

Intel is just as bad as AMD for not telling us what is going on, and worse for giving setup benches.
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Anand ran those tests and asked AMD for a sample to run as well. Intel said OK, they have nothing to hide. AMD said NO, they didn't want Intel to counter them right now. Meanwhile.

DigiTime Reports
AMD Barcelona launch schedule up in the air
Shawn Chen, Taipei; Esther Lam, DIGITIMES [Wednesday 16 May 2007]

AMD's original plans to introduce Quad-Core Opteron (Barcelona) CPUs are unlikely to be on schedule with a concrete launch-time still unknown, according to sources at Taiwan server makers.

The sources noted that AMD has informed them that the introduction of Barcelona will be delayed until August or September, instead of the originally planned June. However, the sources also noted that this schedule is still subject to change. The Barcelona CPU samples they have currently are not the final versions and bugs are still being discovered, they added.
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So if they're still debugging at this late date, I'd look at Sept or Oct to see enough shipping worth talking about.
 
thats nice but where does that show K10 is about 10% faster. So far all I have seen is you make a claim, offer no proof and then simply post any negative rumour about the Barcelona core you can find. No offense to the fanbois, AMD and Intel both but so far everything is rumors, we just have to wait and see.....until we get some benches, but so far we have speculation, please stop trying to pass speculation off as fact.
 
quadnad said:
ahahahah

I love the JC avatar that guy has.

Anyway, we'll see what's what when the proper benchmarks arrive.
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PLEASE, also note they stop posting after I gave them the link they requested?

The guy there (a tester) also made it clear that they were debugging. They expect the end product to be faster than 10% faster clock for clock. no, not just F@nB0y cheer-leading. I have my fingers crossed that AMD can pull off something good. Their Secrecy does worry me, I hope I'm worried about nothing.

All anyone doubting my sincerity has to do is look at the 2900xx launch? Soon as it sucked considering it costs $400, nVidia's cards jumped 40 to 65 us Dollars depending on the name-brand. Think we need that in the CPU market?
 
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