AMD to Simultaneously Launch 3rd Gen Ryzen and Unveil Radeon "Navi" This June

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by Zarathustra[H], Apr 2, 2019.

  1. Staples

    Staples [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    7,857
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2001
    If both these chips are just around the corner, I find it highly interesting that there have not been any leaks. Either no one has them yet and they will be late or people have seen the performance but they are nothing exciting so no one has cared to leak info.

    I would like a real core i5 competitor. 6 or 8 cores and the max clock speeds they can get. The fastest clocks are available in the highest core count CPUs. This make the CPUs worth getting expensive and they are not competing with the Core i5. Sure there is overclocking but it does not help that AMD CPU run hot to begin with.
     
  2. _mockingbird

    _mockingbird Gawd

    Messages:
    992
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2017
    There have been.

    You just havn't been paying attention
     
  3. ccityinstaller

    ccityinstaller [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,230
    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2007

    Ryzen runs hot? I'm not sure where you are getting your information from. The stock cooler alone is enough yo allow a nice OC, and it's quite cool. You need to update your information a biy.
     
    Red Falcon likes this.
  4. _mockingbird

    _mockingbird Gawd

    Messages:
    992
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2017
    Chinese guy/girl delid the Ryzen 3200G, killed it in the process. RIP

    https://www.chiphell.com/thread-1987349-1-1.html

    • 12nm architecture
    • Comparing to 2200G/2400G, the 3000 series are little bit (about 300Mhz) better on overclocking
    • Not much difference on the temperature
    • Same core/thread count and cache size as their corresponding predecessor
    • Soldered TIM
    1st picture: Ryzen 3 3200G (soldered TIM)
    2nd picture: Ryzen 5 2400G (not soldered)
    044945haeuu09pzjwp8keu.jpg
    044945e28ozr9xo2y6zjk9.jpg
    044945nnsvnz0noci5jlji.jpg
    044945bf2q5f1thzdyatkh.jpg
    044945yzp6p5a5tzt3t863.jpg
    044946x29f90jddfph9jpa.jpg
    044946v1a7m9ipwznvc14l.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
    Nobu likes this.
  5. _mockingbird

    _mockingbird Gawd

    Messages:
    992
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2017
    Well, Ryzen 3 3200G and Ryzen 5 3400G have already shown up and they have 4C/4T and 4C/8T, respectively.

    So tough luck with those rumors.
     
    GoldenTiger likes this.
  6. Nobu

    Nobu 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,277
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    Sounds about right for a zen+ chip, good leak. :D
     
  7. _mockingbird

    _mockingbird Gawd

    Messages:
    992
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2017
    They also make clear that AdoredTV "leaks" are hoaxes.

    It's extremely unlikely that there would 6C/12T "Ryzen 3 3300G", "Ryzen 3 3300", and "Ryzen 3 3300X" while Ryzen 3 3200G and Ryzen 5 3400G are 4C/4T and 4C/8T, respectively.
     
    Snowdog and GoldenTiger like this.
  8. Nobu

    Nobu 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,277
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    APUs are different beasts entirely, and will not use the same chiplets as ryzen cpus (not to mention being 12nm zen+ instead of 7nm zen2), so it's not impossible. That said, I highly doubt we'll see a 6c APU, and they certainly won't be smt. The rumored 3300 and 3300x aren't APUs, so it is possible that they will have more than 4c/8t, however unlikely.
     
    LightsOut41 likes this.
  9. _mockingbird

    _mockingbird Gawd

    Messages:
    992
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2017
    They won't.

    AMD knows how to set its lineup.

    There's no way Ryzen 3 3300(s) are going to have more cores/threads than Ryzen 5 3400(s)
     
    GoldenTiger likes this.
  10. Nobu

    Nobu 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,277
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    These chips (3200G and 3400G) are APUs. Unless you have another leak you'd like to share, we still don't know any details about non-apu chips this generation other than what su has said (chiplets, io die, etc). We don't know that there will be 4c/8t r5 chips in the first place. (Edit: other than these APUs, obviously)
     
  11. _mockingbird

    _mockingbird Gawd

    Messages:
    992
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2017
    You have to understand how marketing works.

    Most consumers are not aware of underlining architecture.

    As far as they are concern, Ryzen 5 3xxx > Ryzen 3 3xxx.

    AMD is not going to have Ryzen 3 3xxx that's better than Ryzen 5 3xxx.
     
    GoldenTiger likes this.
  12. Nobu

    Nobu 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,277
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    The R3 2200G is already better than the R5 1400, and as good as the 1500X (minus smt). The only thing that sets it apart from the R5 2500X is smt and a couple hundred mhz on the boost clock. R5 CPUs already have minimum 6c/12t (exception being the 2500x) on the 2xxx series, so it is reasonable to assume they will continue that with 3xxx, eliminating 4c/8t from the R5 CPU lineup (aside from APUs). With that change, it would make sense to incorporate either smt 4c CPUs in the R3 lineup, or a non-smt 6c.

    But as I said earlier, there is no information about AMD's Zen2 CPU lineup that has been leaked (to my knowledge)--only their APUs. All I have said, thus, is pure conjecture and has no basis in fact.
     
  13. _mockingbird

    _mockingbird Gawd

    Messages:
    992
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2017
    Those are different generations.

    8th gen Core i5 is better than 1st gen Core i7

    Who would have thought?
     
    Red Falcon and GoldenTiger like this.
  14. Nobu

    Nobu 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,277
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    Right, what are the specs of the R5 3xxx CPUs again? Oh, you don't know, and neither do I. Who'd have thought?
     
    LightsOut41 likes this.
  15. _mockingbird

    _mockingbird Gawd

    Messages:
    992
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2017
    I don't, but what I do know is that Ryzen 5 3xxx is going to be better than Ryzen 3 3xxx (on the same platform).
     
    PhaseNoise and GoldenTiger like this.
  16. Nobu

    Nobu 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,277
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    I agree, but apparently you're having difficulty reading my posts again...

    A 6c/6t R3 is entirely plausible if there are no 6c/6t R5 CPUs. heck, even an 8c/8t R3 is plausible, if they really want to push core counts higher up on the R5 and R7 lines.
     
    d3athf1sh likes this.
  17. Nobu

    Nobu 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,277
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    Oh btw, R3 2200G is Zen, not Zen+, so it is the same generation as the 1xxx series CPUs (different silicon, however).
     
    N4CR, d3athf1sh and Pieter3dnow like this.
  18. _mockingbird

    _mockingbird Gawd

    Messages:
    992
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2017
    AdoredTV's hoax didn't have any 6C/6T nor 8C/8T processor.

    Furthermore 8C/8T > 4C/8T in all scenarios, so there's no way an 8C/8T Ryzen 3 3xxx processor exists when 4C/8T Ryzen 5 3xxx exists.
     
    GoldenTiger likes this.
  19. _mockingbird

    _mockingbird Gawd

    Messages:
    992
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2017
    As far as most consumers are concern, the generation is the number before the xxx.

    Any Ryzen 1xxx are first generation.

    Any Ryzen 2xxx are second generation.

    Any Ryzen 3xxx are third generation.
     
    GoldenTiger likes this.
  20. Nobu

    Nobu 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,277
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    As I've said several times before, we don't know that a 4c/8t ryzen 5 3xxx CPU exists, unless you're hiding something from us. And I'm purposefully not referencing Adored, because you have already discounted him. What I've said should be taken without consideration for what he's postulated.
     
  21. sirmonkey1985

    sirmonkey1985 [H]ard|DCer of the Month - July 2010

    Messages:
    21,565
    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    it's zen architecture but with zen+ feature's which is probably why they originally picked the naming but yeah it put them in a pickle since the 3000 series APU's are zen+ and not zen 2. but to be honest this has always been the problem with the mobile market. Intel, Nvidia, and AMD are all guilty of using a bullshit naming scheme while using previous gen hardware.

    the 3 5 7 have nothing to do with core count, the naming scheme was always designed to compare those processors to intel's i3 i5 i7 so there's no reason AMD wouldn't then use ryzen 9 for potentially 12/24 and 16/32c parts to compete against the i9 9900k while continuing to leave threadripper as it's own thing.

    with that out of the way now.. for AMD to bother with a 6c/6t and 8c/8t part there would have to be some serious discrepancies between die quality per wafer otherwise it makes no sense to create it when a 4/8 and 6/12 processor will out perform it. there's no significant power saving or performance gain by disabling SMT.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019
  22. _mockingbird

    _mockingbird Gawd

    Messages:
    992
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2017
    Ryzen 5 3400G exists and it has 4C/8T.

    The same person also post photos of it a while ago

    It wasn't news because everyone thought that it's the same as the Ryzen 5 2400G aside from higher clocks.

    He just discovered that the 3rd gen Ryzen APUs have soldered TIM, so that's why it's now news.
     
    GoldenTiger likes this.
  23. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,789
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2009
    Nope
    https://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Z...IdeaPad-C340-convertible-series.410626.0.html

     
    N4CR and d3athf1sh like this.
  24. Nobu

    Nobu 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,277
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    That is an APU. APUs historically have fewer cores/threads than the CPU counterparts (even in the same series), not to mention base/boost clocks.
     
  25. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,789
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2009
    Maybe it is more adapting to the laptop scene more then anything else the naming is just there to give a good feeling to people purchasing the laptop and the feeling they are missing out because of processor naming is prolly a factor for many people who don't know what they are buying in the first place.

    I agree the whole 3579 scheme is just a way to segment the market AMD uses this profoundly pushing more cores making the competition look weak (number of cores vs pricing).
     
  26. _mockingbird

    _mockingbird Gawd

    Messages:
    992
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2017
    How often do you remember Core i3 that's better than Core i5 of the same generation or Core i5 that's better than Core i7 of the same generation (assuming the same platform)?
     
    Red Falcon and GoldenTiger like this.
  27. Nobu

    Nobu 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,277
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    fwiw, the R3 2200G and R5 2400G are desktop APUs, Zen architecture with Vega graphics. APUs before Vega were all A-series/athlon chips.
     
  28. Nobu

    Nobu 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,277
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    Perhaps I did not qualify my statement well enough. AMD APUs (as if an Intel APU was a thing) historically had fewer cores/threads than their CPU counterparts.
     
  29. _mockingbird

    _mockingbird Gawd

    Messages:
    992
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2017
    They also used completely different naming schemes and were on completely different sockets

    AM3+ CPUs => FX-xxxx

    FM2+ APUs => Ax-xxxx
     
  30. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,789
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2009
    But marketing wise there is no real push for these products nor for their designation if there was the naming would be different...
     
  31. Nobu

    Nobu 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,277
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    I beg your pardon...on second thought, no, I don't.
     
    LightsOut41 likes this.
  32. _mockingbird

    _mockingbird Gawd

    Messages:
    992
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2017
    AMD is positioning its Athlon brand like Intel is positioning its Pentium brand.
     
    Nobu likes this.
  33. Nobu

    Nobu 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,277
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    And there happen to be some very good pentiums...recent ones, even. Some might even say they are better than some current generation I3 or I5 parts.

    But we digress from the topic...
     
  34. _mockingbird

    _mockingbird Gawd

    Messages:
    992
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2017
    like what?
     
  35. mda

    mda [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,654
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2011
    I'm guessing, parts like the G5400 and the G5600... better clocks and probably single thread performance compared to the 8100. For the price, good for basic office work desktops, unlike before when pentiums were ~500mhz down from same generation i3 parts.

    Although I think the price of pentiums have gone up since 2013. I remember paying somewhere 40-50$ for sandy bridge G620s, but the Celeron G4920 is now about 70$ locally. The G5400 is even higher at around 80+$
     
  36. ChadD

    ChadD [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,207
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2016
    Well we are talking about AMD parts right ?

    Ryzen 3 2200G is better then the Ryzen 5 2400G. :p

    Only difference is a small bump in clock and SMT. SMT is no real big deal.... and because the 2200G runs cooler you can actually clock the vega much higher if your using it or the cpu if you have the GPU disabled. The 5 2400G is a sucker part, the 2200G is the better chip throw the money you save at faster DDR4 and a better overclocking board and your golden.
     
  37. _mockingbird

    _mockingbird Gawd

    Messages:
    992
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2017
    ...that's only in single threaded performance
     
  38. ccityinstaller

    ccityinstaller [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,230
    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2007

    What are you talking about? The 2400 has more CUs, Vega 10 (10cus x 64 nets 640 "cores" vs Vega 8 at 512). That give the 2400 a decent boost right out the box with decent cooling and you can push VEGA 10 to 1400Mhz+ just as you can Vega 8. The SMT helps a lot in modern games and other well threaded programs as well. 4c parts need to be pushed to the lowest sku then phased out.
     
  39. ChadD

    ChadD [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,207
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2016
    I own both... guess what 2200G with 3200 ram and 1600 gpu destroys a 2400G with slower ram in real world FPS. The 2400 (at lest the one I have) runs quite hot... the only way you overclock it is if you replace the stock cooler. Which is my point if your actually putting together a system using either of these chips your on a budget >.< 100 bucks more for SMT which gives very little in terms of performance for 20% more heat... and a few extra vega cores that make zero actual difference is crazy.

    If you are seriously considering buying a 2400g. Don't buy the 2200 spend the extra 100 bucks on better ram and and or a better MB. IME with 3 2200 systems you really have no issue with the stock cooler hitting 1600 on the GPU. Of the 3 I have built 2 hit 1600 no issue... the other one I had to drop back down to 1500. Still 2200G at 1500 GPU with DDR 3200 will spank a 2400G with DDR 3000... and still leave you and extra 50 or 60 bucks to throw at another part like the MB.

    As a budget build with no GPU who cares about games that may release in 2 or 3 years... you know have faster ram and a better MB for = or less money and when you pop that 2200G out for a 3000 or 4000 you get all the advantage of having faster ram and a better mobo.

    2400 is a sucker chip. :) SMT does nothing really for a low end APU 4 real ryzen cores can easily feed the vega 8/10... all SMT does is drop your usage CPU usage from 70% to 50% and perhaps make you feel better. Better to run 4 real cores and get an extra 200 mhz out of your gpu overclock. Also consider the 2200g I have had 3 now better 1500 with included stock cooler. The 2400g I have with the stock cooler I could barely push the GPU to 1400... I mean I got it to run at 1400 with the stock cooler but I backed it off cause honestly the temps freaked me out. So not only is the chip 100 bucks more to really push it you need to spend another 20-50 bucks on a better cooler. Not worth it for a budget chip.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
  40. Gottfried Leibnizzle

    Gottfried Leibnizzle Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    253
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2015
    Unless you were shaggin chicks instead of studying.