AMD takes yet another market share blow

PRIME1

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within 5-10 year dgpu's will be dead and nv with it. nv knows this and are grasping for w/e straws they can to remain relevant

Just the opposite actually. With the amount of power needed to run a 4K/8K display (multiple displays) and VR, the video card market is looking to explode.
 

ManofGod

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They are not competitive, that's why their market share has dropped so low.

Facts.

If AMD goes under, enjoy paying upwards of $1200 for a 980ti equivalent videocard. :D Those are the facts, tough luck. Me, I will play games on my consoles instead which will cost far less and give me far more then NVidia ever could.
 

defaultluser

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Just the opposite actually. With the amount of power needed to run a 4K/8K display (multiple displays) and VR, the video card market is looking to explode.

I disagree with this. 4k is not going to be the behemoth everyone here thinks it is. And 4k HEVC video decode will be "free" on Skylake and AMD Carrizo, so there's no growing market for that in discrete graphics.

Even if 4k gaming takes over, most people will continue to play games at their shitty low resolution, and the video card will just upscale it. They already do that when they're running on 15w IGP on their ultrabook.

And I just don't see the industry moving toward 4k as the "default." As much as people like to point out the falling prices for 4k TVs, the fact is the 1080p AND 720p TVs have fallen even lower. They will shortly hit their price-differential wall with 1080p sets, and hold there.

Yes, I said 720p TVs. They still exist. 1080p for the same cabinet design costs $40 extra!

http://www.walmart.com/ip/SCEPTRE-X...th-ultra-slim-metal-brush-bezel-60Hz/25059351

http://www.walmart.com/ip/SCEPTRE-X...fault&beacon_version=1.0.1&findingMethod=p13n

Efficiency improvements affect the entire industry, not just the high-end panels.
 
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Stoly

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If AMD goes under, enjoy paying upwards of $1200 for a 980ti equivalent videocard. :D Those are the facts, tough luck. Me, I will play games on my consoles instead which will cost far less and give me far more then NVidia ever could.

how is it a fact as it hasn't happened yet? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Like consoles can do 1080p, sli, 4k and better texture/model quality, right?

If AMD goes down, someone else will take its place. Its too big of a market for just 1 player.
 

ManofGod

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That is typical BS argument for why AMD needs to stick around and its completely unproven.

Right. :rolleyes: How much did Nvidia refund purchasers of the GTX 680 I believe it was? How much lower did the reduce the cost of their 780's because of the R9 290 and 290x cost upon release? How much did they charge for the 8800 Ultra because there was nothing at that time from ATi to directly compete with it?

Oh, how much do they charge for the Titan again? Proof is in the pricing. I could not rather care less who is right and wrong, things are the way they are, period.
 

PRIME1

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I disagree with this. 4k is not going to be the behemoth everyone here thinks it is. And 4k HEVC video decode will be "free" on Skylake and AMD Carrizo, so there's no growing market for that in discrete graphics..

If AMD goes under, enjoy paying upwards of $1200 for a 980ti equivalent videocard. :D Those are the facts, tough luck. Me, I will play games on my consoles instead which will cost far less and give me far more then NVidia ever could.


I think I see why AMD is doing so poorly. Their fans don't want high end gear. They want 720p console performance and don't want to spend a dime on it.

For the rest of us. We will move on to 4K, 8k, multiple displays, VR, Holodecks, etc and enjoy high end gaming.
 

Derangel

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I disagree with this. 4k is not going to be the behemoth everyone here thinks it is. And 4k HEVC video decode will be "free" on Skylake and AMD Carrizo, so there's no growing market for that in discrete graphics.

Even if 4k takes over, most people will continue to play games at their shitty low resolution, and the video card will just upscale it. They already do that when they're running on 15w IGP on their ultrabook.

And I just don't see the industry moving toward 4k as the "default." As much as people like to point out the falling prices for 4k TVs, the fact is the 1080p AND 720p TVs have fallen even lower. They will shortly hit their price-differential wall with 1080p sets, and hold there.

Yes, I said 720p TVs. They still exist. 1080p for the same cabinet design costs $40 extra!

http://www.walmart.com/ip/SCEPTRE-X...th-ultra-slim-metal-brush-bezel-60Hz/25059351

http://www.walmart.com/ip/SCEPTRE-X...fault&beacon_version=1.0.1&findingMethod=p13n

Efficiency improvements affect the entire industry, not just the high-end panels.

Agreed. Something else a lot of people don't consider is this: People simply aren't going to run out and buy new TVs or new monitors on a whim. The vast majority of people only upgrade when there is a real need for it. The mass adoption of HDTVs wasn't even that long ago and most people aren't going to jump to 4K or anything else as long as their current TVs or current monitors work.

how is it a fact as it hasn't happened yet? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Like consoles can do 1080p, sli, 4k and better texture/model quality, right?

If AMD goes down, someone else will take its place. Its too big of a market for just 1 player.

Too big of a market? Not really. dGPU sales keep falling every year. There is a reason Nvidia is still trying to find ways to break into other markets and AMD is so gung-ho about APUs.
 

ManofGod

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I think I see why AMD is doing so poorly. Their fans don't want high end gear. They want 720p console performance and don't want to spend a dime on it.

For the rest of us. We will move on to 4K, 8k, multiple displays, VR, Holodecks, etc and enjoy high end gaming.

Sorry but, I have better things to do with $1200 then to spend it on a single video card. Oh, and I am already on 4k with my single R9 290 so there. :p
 

defaultluser

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For the rest of us. We will move on to 4K, 8k, multiple displays, VR, Holodecks, etc and enjoy high end gaming.

Oh, no doubt. The enthusiast market will never disappear. I expect that the current bleeding should hit a floor sometime in the next decade. But as the sales numbers get smaller, you're going to have to get used to paying more for a top-end GPU. The cost of each technology node is also increasing.

People will blame it on Nvidia having a monopoly (might be partially true), but the main cause will be falling sales. Less people to spread out the growing research and development and one-time engineering costs of new GPUs.

Nvidia's record quarter this year was only at the cost of AMD, and that's not sustainable. They'll start to falter in a few years.
 

HvyMtl

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My 2 Cents:

I am not a fan of AMD's direction of late.

Rebranding? Really? Sure some updates, and larger ram, but really, you should have called it a refresh not rename all the cards. Smacks of very poor Marketing. Which, as most here will recall, has and will continue to be, a severe issue AMD has.

Fury seems a proof of concept and a placeholder. Something like: "Well, we have a lot of $ in this piece, and it under performs. Let's sell it anyway to recoup some expenses, and hope the next piece is better..."

THAT said, competition is necessary in the computer field. Were it not for AMD - we would probably be stuck with the fiasco Intel's 64bit architecture was going to be... (Yes, 64 bit Windows is based on AMD's 64 bit coding...) Worse, we would have, effectively, ONE supplier for CPU: Intel, and one for GPU: Nvidia. Which I believe would suck for all of us. Why? No real incentive to push for better, faster, and less cost. So, we would grind to a halt on creating high end graphics...
 

Semantics

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Too big of a market? Not really. dGPU sales keep falling every year. There is a reason Nvidia is still trying to find ways to break into other markets and AMD is so gung-ho about APUs.
Yup but both intel and amd have yet to break into the smartphone/embedded market with their apus hard to make low powered ones at cost to fit it, which would be the growth market to hit. It's also where nvidia is trying to expand into mainly embedded devices. The dgpu market will always be here for enterprise and consumer but the consumer market is shrinking.
 
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I think many people fail to see the huge loss of innovation that will/is happening when we only get to play it the way Nvidia decides you may, just look at the CPU market with Intel incremental tick tock of death, GPU's will be going the same way. Guess the next round is GREEN for me after 4 generations of RED.
 

drakken

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The only company other than investment firms that would have the funds to buy the gpu part of Amd would be apple at this point. Intel and Nvidia would get hit with the anti competition laws. The foundry's really have enough with just designing new ways to make chip cost effective let alone having to add R&D costs of taping out new wafers.

Their might be some like dell or HP that might try to get into but they are both working on really thin margins and would have to risk too much of their company that most banks and vc would turn them down. Apple has a couple billion and could take over the gpu as it would give them an edge against google but their partnership with Intel might preclude that possibility. Motorolla, cisco or one of the network or audio chipset vendors might try if for no other reason than to get an x86 license or better metal on die tech. Likely Amd will struggle along until they either figure out another concept like x64 or loss too much money in a year and have to sell of part of the company as part of a bankruptcy hearing as they already went into bank protection twice in the last decade. If I remember correctly they came out of bank just before they setup the foundry in upstate ny.
 

fanboy

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I see it as AMD users upgrade less as Hawaii is still fast enough and takes advantage of DX 12 with GCN 1.1 and Nvidia users need to upgrade more because of how Nvidia releases there tech .

Hopefully windows 10 and DX 12 will distance itself from GameWorks which is only useful for Nvidia fans and offers notting moving forward past the new API for all gamers.. I need a HDMI 2.0 card but I will just wait for AMD to release one ..
 

primetime

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Heres my take on all this. Who really cares what amd's market share is? Or weather its up or down? There are those of of who really want amd to stick around yes, but thats about it. Its pretty pathetic the Nvidia trolls create these threads every week, and for what? Some people are just born to Troll:D
 

YeuEmMaiMai

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this isn't all NVidia's fault

AMD stated back in the 6000 days that they were no longer going to compete in the high end... That was the largest nail in their coffin.

they should have me run them, I'd do what the guy from S3 did, they them on a path that turns em around....
 

Dayaks

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Heres my take on all this. Who really cares what amd's market share is? Or weather its up or down? There are those of of who really want amd to stick around yes, but thats about it. Its pretty pathetic the Nvidia trolls create these threads every week, and for what? Some people are just born to Troll:D

Future driver support is starting to become a risk in my head.

AMD needs HBM on Zen. That would be interesting. That's where HBM is actually needed.... I need to buy a laptop in 2016. It might be the ticket.
 

blank

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Does Mercury Research disclose conflicts of interest (i.e. subsidy from say nvidia)? Whenever I see random research groups I always think of the private research institutes funded by tobacco companies publishing papers on the benign nature of cigarettes.
 

KazeoHin

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Does Mercury Research disclose conflicts of interest (i.e. subsidy from say nvidia)? Whenever I see random research groups I always think of the private research institutes funded by tobacco companies publishing papers on the benign nature of cigarettes.

In the end you may have a valid point, BUT research and metric companies sell their credibility. If they loose their credibility, they loose their selling power. So its a tough cookie to crack.
 

DracoNB

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Does Mercury Research disclose conflicts of interest (i.e. subsidy from say nvidia)? Whenever I see random research groups I always think of the private research institutes funded by tobacco companies publishing papers on the benign nature of cigarettes.

From their website:

ATI, Nvidia, Intel, Matrox, XGI, VIA and SIS are all covered in the report.

Good thing they are covering ATI and Matrox :D
 

Factum

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What kind of documentation would you find acceptable? In fact even theoretically what kind of documentation could you ever expect with this type of claim? Nvidia in a billion years aren't going to admit anything like this (not to imply this claim is even true), no company ever would. You've flooded this thread with these comments but what do you really expect? Internal emails from Nvidia? Hidden camera footage?

Lets try a different approch.
What evidence persuaded you that NVIDIA is doing "planned obsolence"?
It didn' come out of thin air...or did it?

So you want written documentation that proves what they're doing internally, under strict NDA. Are you really that dense?

Planned obsolescence existed for a hundred years. Every manufacturer takes it into account, the only difference is how far they can go with it. Questioning it is like questioning if the earth is round. I have no doubt in my mind that if AMD had the same share as NVIDIA they'd do the same thing. It's just business as usual.

So you can show me the evidence...we are talking performance here, a quantifiable metric?
 

Factum

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I repeat, I repeat, I repeat, I repeat...... ad nauseum. :rolleyes: Whether you like it or not, facts are facts and they do not change to fit your own narrative. However, keep pushing that way, someday, you might even convince yourself. ;)

I fail to find a single counter-argument in your post, I am sure this must be an oversight from your side as the other option would be trolling?
 
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Factum

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i see the paid nv forum crew is awake and out in full force trying to state its opinions as fact. we know amd is getting screwed in gameworks titles hell we know nv's older hardware is getting screwed as well. yet the nv echo chamber still faithfully believes in their graphical savior JJH and nv the company can do no wrong.

I fail to find a single counter-argument in your post, I am sure this must be an oversight from your side as the other option would be trolling?
 
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surely looks DX 12 is a god send for AMD.

290x on par with 980Ti, with $400 saving! This should help their positions in the next 6 months.
 

Sycraft

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surely looks DX 12 is a god send for AMD.

290x on par with 980Ti, with $400 saving! This should help their positions in the next 6 months.

Well don't get too excited. There are two issues there:

1) How will the performance be once things actually come out? Remember right now we are talking about synthetic benchmarks and games still in development. Things can change in terms of driver optimizations and such before they actually launch, which can change how things are performing.

2) How many DX12 games will there be, and how soon will we see them? Remember this isn't something that applies retroactively, stuff has to be coded for the new API and render path. So it isn't like you get Windows 10 and suddenly everything runs faster. Game has to be made to use it.


So we'll see how things shake out. In the next 6 months? Isn't going to do shit. There are going to be zero DX12 titles around. In the long run, we'll just have to see.

I really hope AMD can get their shit together because the last thing we want is a market with only a single choice, but don't get too over excited by a bit of early results.
 

griff30

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SnowBeast

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surely looks DX 12 is a god send for AMD.

290x on par with 980Ti, with $400 saving! This should help their positions in the next 6 months.

#1 By the time DX12 comes into mainstream, the 290X will be 2 or 3 generations behind.

#2 After releasing info stating that 80% of the market belongs to Nvidia, you really think developers are going to cater to less than 20% of the market??? Good way to kill your career/development team.

#3 Consoles are not enough to save AMD as they don't have enough in the tank for R&D. Fury X for all purposes and intent was an 4096 Hawaii core with HBM slapped on it. That's innovative??? Everyone was excited for Fury (me too) and it bombed, its not a totally NEW architecture. Thats why I laugh at people about Zen. Even if it's IPC is 40% better than Bulldozer/escavator, its still on par with Ivy Bridge maybe Devil's Canyon???

#4 AMD IS OUT OF MONEY. Who is buying their server chips that was a huge percentage of business back in early to mid/late 2000's??? Company that has 20% investment in AMD is bleeding right now, hard. No new injection of funds to help R&D means more recycled, less innovative products.

You can bury your head in the sand, but facts are there before you. How do you squander a Billion dollars invested toward consoles and lose money, market share, and consumer confidence in your Company and sustain profitability? You don't. Nvidia and Intel played the console bet the right way. They will be in the next PS and Xbox.
 

Semantics

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surely looks DX 12 is a god send for AMD.

290x on par with 980Ti, with $400 saving! This should help their positions in the next 6 months.
How, with all these non-existent dx12 games that mirror synthetic performance dropping in 6 months?
And I quote from your article there that is the REAL point:

They will. Why? Because what I just posted. Nvidia has MONEY.
Also because unlike AMD Nvidia isn't bleeding money out of it's graphics department. Nvidia isn't run incompetently which is enough as AMD beats it head into a wall with poor management time and time again.
 

Factum

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People arguing over a test on alpha-software makes me wonder over the future...
 

Mboner1

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AMD hasn't been competitive in years, yet the Nvida nightmare scenario hasn't happened.

I think in terms of performance amd have been more than competitive in the gpu market. Im still rocking a r9 290 from 18 months ago and have no reason to upgrade yet. The 290 series dropped prices for nvidia cards as well. In terms of features i prefer amd personally, even if the cards were identical and priced the same i would choose amd over nvidia, hot tip - nvidia cards and amd cards aren't priced the same for the same performance lol. Can nvidia do full rgb over hdmi yet for a properly calibrated display without having to do registry hacks? Nope.

Plus I'm not a big fan of g sync and how they jumped the gun and started charging for something monitor manufacturers should have been in charge of.. add game works and the nvidia user base to the list of things i can do with out.. nvidia users are about as bad as sony fanboys if you ask me.

I run a 750ti in a back up system as well so i don't refuse to buy nvidia, i just don't see them prioritising the things i would, and they charge more for the privilidge . No thanks.
 
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Really? Last time I check, I didn't find any PC games in any store I went, everything was console.
And that code to get free Batman and this other game, I forgot its name, I lost them and not interested in calling egg again to get the code.

Maybe you should go to other stores????

Even in my small ass town all major chains, Target, Walmart, Best Buy, and Gamestop sell PC games. From AAA titles to crappy $5 games.

Best Buy has even increased the amount of PC parts, peripherals, and games over the last few years.
 

Flogger23m

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In a DX12 game benchmark AMD's last generation 290x is matching or in some cases beating Nvidia's flagship 980.

Sources:
PCWorld :
Tested: DirectX 12's potential performance leap is insane



wccftech:
AMD R9 290X As Fast As Titan X in DX12 Enabled 3DMark – 33% Faster Than GTX 980


Arstechnica:
DirectX 12 tested: An early win for AMD, and disappointment for Nvidia

Essentially useless unless you plan on playing 3D mark. Real performance in real games is still up in the air. We won't be seeing many DX12 games early 2016. Maybe late 2016, but I wonder if those will just be "hack jobs" with last minute implementation. Add in drivers ect. and we still don't know how games will perform.

Maybe you should go to other stores????

Even in my small ass town all major chains, Target, Walmart, Best Buy, and Gamestop sell PC games. From AAA titles to crappy $5 games.

Best Buy has even increased the amount of PC parts, peripherals, and games over the last few years.

Opposite here. Most of the games are Steam/Origin CD keys only, but the majority is gift credit for Steam/Origin wallet.
 

PRIME1

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AMD's stock took another hit today. I wonder if these market share numbers are the cause.
 
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