I predicted by the end of the year AMD would be at 20%. It appears it's below that well before the end of the year. Houston, we got a problem.
Source: http://www.tweaktown.com/news/47105/amds-gpu-market-share-drops-again-even-release-fury/index.html
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AMD takes yet another market share blow
- Thread starter Liger88
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I predicted by the end of the year AMD would be at 20%. It appears it's below that well before the end of the year. Houston, we got a problem.
Source: http://www.tweaktown.com/news/47105/amds-gpu-market-share-drops-again-even-release-fury/index.html
KazeoHin
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As much as this is a shitty situation, and in no way means good things for consumers... Godamn if AMD can't make ONE godamn good choice in the history of the company. Its like AMD is run by a round table of chimps.... This is entirely AMD's fault. The CPU market was bribed by Intel, We can all understand that the fall from market was not AMD's choice, but this? This is AMD's fault... and it makes me sad...
5150Joker
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What a shocker, AMD is now sub 20%..really..I'm just shocked because I thought with that overclockers dream of a GPU they'd have clawed their way to 40% by now. Maybe they can keep crying some more about GameWorks, I'm sure that will win them even more marketshare. At this point the smart thing for AMD as a company would be to sell off ATi to someone (perhaps NVIDIA) and then setup a licensing agreement with them to share GPU IP so they can integrate it into their CPUs. They lost their focus on the CPU market by acquiring ATi and have no real direction. If current trends continue, and there's no reason to think they won't, I predict AMD folding from the high end dGPU market by 2017. If they don't shuttle ATi by then, they'll likely reshuffle it to work on APU + consoles.
Honestly, if you look at AMD financial reports, the GPU market is a big loser for them and they keep pouring endless money into this black hole. They can plug this leak by exiting the market sooner than later and focusing on specialized areas such as APU, consoles and maybe even take a stab at the auto market that NVIDIA has ventured into. The PC gaming market is done for them, there's no return from 18% and falling.
Honestly, if you look at AMD financial reports, the GPU market is a big loser for them and they keep pouring endless money into this black hole. They can plug this leak by exiting the market sooner than later and focusing on specialized areas such as APU, consoles and maybe even take a stab at the auto market that NVIDIA has ventured into. The PC gaming market is done for them, there's no return from 18% and falling.
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Mister E
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I really hope they turn it around sooner than later. I'm sure they will but it needs to be quick so that the progression of GPU technology doesn't go stale. I want to see some heavy weight fights for the top spot again.
5150Joker
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How do you propose they turn it around? Is Santa money bags going to show up with $10 billion in cash? Because if not, they have no chance.
Mister E
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I didn't propose anything. I said "I hope." As much as some of the fanboy kiddies around here would love to see AMD tank, I would not. I want them hitting Nvidia back as hard as they can. As the younglings around here mature and grow out of their little kid ways, they will see that competition is good for business as well as progression.
5150Joker
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"Kiddies" "younglings" gimme a break. Yes we can all wax philosophical about how great it would be if unicorns existed and AMD had boatloads of money and market parity with NVIDIA. But in reality, that hope of yours means nothing. If you really want to see AMD survive, then you should hope someone in their management team pulls their head out of their ass sooner than later and gets out of the discrete GPU market because its dragging them down.
Mister E
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And as much as you'd LOVE to see them fail I HOPE you're wrong.
Last quoted post to you because it's futile to try to reason with you. We are the Borg!! Am I right??
The GPU market is completely bribed by Nvidia, that is the whole purpose of Gameworks.
Nvidia will provide you with support as long as you don't want to optimize for AMD/Intel hardware, if you do, you have to pay to access the source code and the contract you sign forbids you from working with AMD/Intel to optimize the code or let them optimize their drivers.
Gameworks optimization is awful:
Here is massive tessellation in water that is hidden:
And here is some very nice tessellation on a barricade:
Lets not forget Witcher 3:
http://wccftech.com/fight-nvidias-gameworks-continues-amd-call-program-tragic/
Here are plenty more examples from Crysis 2:
https://youtu.be/IYL07c74Jr4?t=1m46s
But hey, anything to make your old card run bad so they can sell you a new one.
Don't worry though, all the guys with SLI Titan X's will tell you about how that's normal for PC gaming and there are no issues.
KazeoHin
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These issues showed up AFTER AMD decided to skydive. When the GPU market was more balanced, developers would never sabotage 45% of their customers. Now that AMD's GPU share is 15%, they are essentially 'niche' and won't be considered for important updates.
Yes, Nvidia hastened the ball rolling, but it was already moving long before. Nvidia's biggest competitor is actually Nvidia from last year. Thats why they cripple their old cards' performance: there isn't many reasons for a 780 Ti user to upgrade to the 980 Ti based on raw performance, but the 980 Ti will continue to run games well, while the 780 Ti runs about as fast as a 960 in new GameWorks titles. Gotta sell 'dem cards somehow! Without AMD: the only option to play modern games is to give Nvidia however much they ask.
Yes, Nvidia hastened the ball rolling, but it was already moving long before. Nvidia's biggest competitor is actually Nvidia from last year. Thats why they cripple their old cards' performance: there isn't many reasons for a 780 Ti user to upgrade to the 980 Ti based on raw performance, but the 980 Ti will continue to run games well, while the 780 Ti runs about as fast as a 960 in new GameWorks titles. Gotta sell 'dem cards somehow! Without AMD: the only option to play modern games is to give Nvidia however much they ask.
The problem is different...if AMD goes under, Nvidia has no more competition, which means no more need to pour money into R&D which leads to stagnant development and in the end, us the consumers will lose.
I know there were rumors that Samsung wanted to buy AMD, at this point, I wish that those rumors were true and AMD will become part of Samsung.
I know there were rumors that Samsung wanted to buy AMD, at this point, I wish that those rumors were true and AMD will become part of Samsung.
crusty_juggler
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Gameworks is not a conspiracy to force people to buy 980ti's. Don't be ridiculous.
When gamers encounter FPS-sapping virtual hair, they turn said virtual hair off. Not immediately go out and drop $600+ on a new GPU.
AMD competes with Nvidia in the same way a nail competes with a hammer.
AMD hasn't been competitive in years, yet the Nvida nightmare scenario hasn't happened.
It kind of is. For the people that want that extra eye candy, they will spend the money. And Nvidia has gimped their previous generation of cards by increasing tessellation.
crusty_juggler
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And your proof of this conspiracy is Crysis 2, a game that game out in 2011?
Flogger23m
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Somehow I doubt that is accurate. So ~15% of AMD users replaced their video cards in ~ 8 months? Most people only upgrade once every 2-3 years, so I find it hard to believe over half of those with AMD cards did in under a year. Or they stopped using them/went to integrated. No doubt their market share is sliding, but I don't think people are suddenly upgrading this quick either.
About the competition thing, while Nvidia can raise prices they can only do it so much I would think. If it becomes too expensive for 16 year old kids to get into PC gaming even more will gravitate towards consoles, where profit margins are much lower. And they'll grow up without ever knowing or caring about PC gaming. Obviously some will, but less overall.
And sadly, computers are dying as it is for the mainstream. The idea of a kid buying a PC for games & other stuff is fading fast. I have recently decided to check out a lot of the "common" apps or social media things and I was surprised to learn none of them had a website or computer option. Despite taking much longer to do basic tasks most people prefer to use their phone for everything apparently. Nvidia can only raise prices so much before they loose their market, IMO.
About the competition thing, while Nvidia can raise prices they can only do it so much I would think. If it becomes too expensive for 16 year old kids to get into PC gaming even more will gravitate towards consoles, where profit margins are much lower. And they'll grow up without ever knowing or caring about PC gaming. Obviously some will, but less overall.
And sadly, computers are dying as it is for the mainstream. The idea of a kid buying a PC for games & other stuff is fading fast. I have recently decided to check out a lot of the "common" apps or social media things and I was surprised to learn none of them had a website or computer option. Despite taking much longer to do basic tasks most people prefer to use their phone for everything apparently. Nvidia can only raise prices so much before they loose their market, IMO.
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KazeoHin
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First off: Yes, AMD have been competitive. In fact, they've been quite competitive for their market share. Nvidia are putting A LOT of effort into making AMD seem slow or insignificant. They even pay teams of people to pose as forum members in major hardware communities to badmouth AMD 24 hours a day. Nvidia also pours money into Gameworks promotion, Ad campaigns, and developer deals. They wouldn't go through all of this if the market was theirs entirely. Yes, the job is almost done, and the market is almost dominated, but its not quite there just yet.
Second off: Allow me to quote myself:
The Nightmare scenario is happening already. 10 years ago, if you asked a hardware enthusiast if they would be happy with a top-of-the-line video card being ~15% faster than the previous years top-of-the-line video card, They would say that was a nightmare. Its all about the frog and the slow boil.
And don't think I'm some AMD fanboy. I own two Titan X cards, I'm just worried that the next Titan card will be 15% faster in the games of today, yet 70% faster in the games of tomorrow, and Driver improvements and support will stop as soon as the new cards hit the shelves. Hint Hint, its already happened with Kepler owners.
limitedaccess
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This point gets brought up but lets examine it with Witcher 3 hairworks using two different benchmark sources -
http://www.techspot.com/review/1006-the-witcher-3-benchmarks/page6.html
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/The-Witcher-3-Spiel-38488/Specials/Grafikkarten-Benchmarks-1159196/
We will compare the GTX 770->GTX 970 and GTX 780->GTX 980, in both cases the direct replacements in Nvidia's product line.
hairworks off/on/percentage
GTX 770 - 25.9/21.3/82.2%
GTX 970 - 44.7/36.5/81.6%
GTX 780 - 49/36/73.5%
GTX 980 - 76/56/73.7%
The relative performance drop in enabling hairworks (the Gameworks feature) is essentially the same with Kepler and Maxwell 2.0
http://www.techspot.com/review/1006-the-witcher-3-benchmarks/page6.html
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/The-Witcher-3-Spiel-38488/Specials/Grafikkarten-Benchmarks-1159196/
We will compare the GTX 770->GTX 970 and GTX 780->GTX 980, in both cases the direct replacements in Nvidia's product line.
hairworks off/on/percentage
GTX 770 - 25.9/21.3/82.2%
GTX 970 - 44.7/36.5/81.6%
GTX 780 - 49/36/73.5%
GTX 980 - 76/56/73.7%
The relative performance drop in enabling hairworks (the Gameworks feature) is essentially the same with Kepler and Maxwell 2.0
Did you miss the witcher 3?
Somehow the game had really bad issues on pre-maxwell hardware that went unnoticed by Nvidia until after all the reviews and benchmarks were out... wonder why.
limitedaccess
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The data is based upon the last quarter not what is out in the market total.
One takeaway here though is if you look it historically - http://i.imgur.com/bNqJYgA.png
Share data tends to spike up on new releases (look at which releases didn't and how well those were received).
Although this isn't very surprising when you look at AMDs actually new lineup. The problem, which I've mentioned since 3xx launch, is AMDs new line is not competitive with their own line when they were losing market share already. It's likely they hoped to rely on a marketing push or future developments to give them an edge but so far this hasn't planned out in market share at least (maybe revenue due to higher margins?)
People want to bring up Nvidia's "poor pricing." But when the GTX 970/980 released was anyone suggesting Kepler still? If you look at things with 3xx most people were saying to get the 2xx cards before they disappear.
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staknhalo
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AlMostDead
crusty_juggler
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Somehow, all those launch issues were resolved via game patches and driver updates - just like every single AAA title that's been released on PC since...forever.
Your evidence of conspiracy is launch day performance problems in Witcher 3, and poor optimization in Crysis 2? Seriously?
Relative performance statistics have no place in this conspiracy thread. Take your facts somewhere else.
The way nvidia made the scale go from 15% to 85% to accentuate just how bad AMD is was an added touch.
Overall though, dGPU sales are down, PC sales are down, Intel continues to gain GPU marketshare (which might concern us the most, depending on whether or not those IGPs are being used for gaming). Lots of headwinds out there.
Well, Charlie claims that there's a big AMD financial "change" coming shortly.
Overall though, dGPU sales are down, PC sales are down, Intel continues to gain GPU marketshare (which might concern us the most, depending on whether or not those IGPs are being used for gaming). Lots of headwinds out there.
Well, Charlie claims that there's a big AMD financial "change" coming shortly.
Wow this is the end result of nvidias anti-competitive middleware! my hope is dx12 murders gameworks and graphical middle-ware schemes like it.
Why remember the little dust-up about tomb raider last year how it was an amd gaming evolved title and nv's cards ran like dogshit for the 1st week till nv fixed its driver.
nv was able to do that cause amd doesn't lock their optimizations behind a layer of proprietary middleware. If amd wants to fix a driver for a gameworks title however tough cookies go pound sand as the developer is under contract not to share any code with amd.
now i ask you is that fair to us consumers?
Why remember the little dust-up about tomb raider last year how it was an amd gaming evolved title and nv's cards ran like dogshit for the 1st week till nv fixed its driver.
nv was able to do that cause amd doesn't lock their optimizations behind a layer of proprietary middleware. If amd wants to fix a driver for a gameworks title however tough cookies go pound sand as the developer is under contract not to share any code with amd.
now i ask you is that fair to us consumers?
staknhalo
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They found some loose change under the chair cushions in the lobby. Cash-on-hand rises 197%
Ocellaris
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Devs can and will just move on to Gameworks in Direct X 12 games. With AMD falling so far behind, it makes sense for a developer to accept Nvidias free help toward making their game play better for most users.
Killerxp100
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I know I'm part of the problem. Switched to team green after 5+ years with AMD/ATI. Do I feel bad... maybe a little, but there is no reason to get attached to a company in this hobby and anyone who does should absolutely be considered a "fanboy".
Everyone here should be very worried about a monopoly in the gpu market, it's a bad thing on so many levels.
Everyone here should be very worried about a monopoly in the gpu market, it's a bad thing on so many levels.
I forgot the details exactly but I think I recall there was a dramatic difference between Project Cars on Windows 8 and Windows 10 for AMD. Hasn't AMD addressed all those initial performance issues they had with various games this year?
KazeoHin
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YAAAY. I can't wait for total market domination by Nvidia. It will mean so many good things!
staknhalo
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As continuously mentioned, there already has been a basic monopoly for quite a while, so I'm not worried. You know what is also bad for consumers? A company that utterly fails compete, comes out with lackluster products time after time, and lies to it's customers. They deserve everything they're getting. You reap what you sow. If you guys want competition, you should be rooting for Intel to start producing dGPUs, or for Samsung to. You should not be rooting for AMD to continue on.
point of order who the frack has 10k laying around to read this fracking report and we are to take nv's word as god here?
lots of data missing here let me fill in nv's blanks
http://www.pcper.com/news/Graphics-Cards/Overall-GPU-Shipments-Down-Last-Year-PC-Industry-Drops-10
the entire dgpu market is in the toilet nv is using a single data point to make itself look better than it actually is
lots of data missing here let me fill in nv's blanks
http://www.pcper.com/news/Graphics-Cards/Overall-GPU-Shipments-Down-Last-Year-PC-Industry-Drops-10
the entire dgpu market is in the toilet nv is using a single data point to make itself look better than it actually is
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within 5-10 year dgpu's will be dead and nv with it. nv knows this and are grasping for w/e straws they can to remain relevant
KazeoHin
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And as others (including myself) have said AMD is competing to a degree large enough for Nvidia to react to them. That means Nvidia still feel even the slightest bit threatened, even if the threat they feel is a small amount of profit loss.
By contrast, in the CPU world: Intel haven't reacted to AMD in over 5 years. AMD is insignificant in that market. And Intel's market is now stagnant. People with 4 year old i7 CPUs still poses an 95th percentile performance advantage.
but you aren't worried about a monopoly, because any monopolistic company will ensure that they do everything they can in order to stay ahead and advance the industry... right?
I don't think they (dGPUs) will be dead but as time goes on I do suspect they'll become more niche than they are today.
staknhalo
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You say that like it isn't the correct and wise course of action to take if it were true.
staknhalo
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I don't know about any, but Intel sure seems to. They're only slowing down because of hitting a wall in Moore's Law. I also have no reason at this time to think Nvidia won't. Like I said, you want competition? Root for Intel or Samsung to get into the dGPU game - you should not be rooting for AMD with all the shit they have - and/or have not - done.
KazeoHin
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Nobody is saying they wouldn't do the same thing in Nvidias place.
But we aren't in Nvidia's place. We are in the place that gets screwed by a 1-sided market.
It just so happens to be a huge coincidence that Intel hit that 'wall' at the exact point of of AMD's failed bulldozer release, since which AMD has yet to be competitive.
Also, Moore's law is alive and well. Intel have 18 core server processors that follow the curve of moore's law perfectly! Intel has the silicon and the law is still relevant in every regard.
it must be a coincidence that the server market still has significant competition?
Moorels law is also super evident in mobile computing! each new year, faster, more efficient processors are coming out that follow the curve exactly. Its also a coincidence that the mobile market has a heap of competition.
staknhalo
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Nothing says we will - you simply fear and/or are assuming we will. Just as much as you could be 100% right, you could be 100% wrong. So as I said multiple times now:
samsung ha no. qualacomm yes as they have the radeon mobile division or any other current gpu soc maker on teh arm side the reason they do not do it is the $$$$ is not there.
KazeoHin
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I dont think anyone (sane) is rooting for AMD here. I got first reply with saying that they are a company ran by chimps.
I'm not hating Nvidia, I'm hating the situation we are all in. Yes, if Intel or Qualcom or Samsung were to purchase AMD's Radeon graphics division and start making competitive products, YES. I would love that.
but we all know that's not going to happen. PC gaming is becoming a bigger thing, but There is not enough market growth for a company to invest new assets in.
If you can somehow rationalize that a 1-sided market could possibly mean good things for consumers, I envy your optimism. There is no amount of logic or history that could support your optimistic views, and it makes me question what exactly you hope to accomplish by posting in this thread, but then again, why are any of us posting here...