AMD Ryzen 7 9800X3D Has the CCD on Top of the 3D V-cache Die, Not Under it

OKC Yeakey Trentadue said:
Based in what? Because only a minority are vocalizing it.

That's like saying only a minority of people disapprove of congress because only a fraction of a people have formalized a complaint.
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Isn’t that the only thing you can base it on? With no evidence you’re just making assumptions aren’t you? As far as congress, I don’t have an opinion on that, I’m not an American but again are you going by statistics or assumptions?

Based on the small number of people who complain I can only reason that most people don’t have an issue with the news posts. Maybe I’m wrong and dozens more would like to speak up?
 
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To all the SJW here...
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gtrguy said:
I’m not sure that’s an accurate characterization. I might be more of an SJW (I don’t consider that a pejorative) than most of the complainants. I consider myself socially progressive, liberal minded, left leaning, tolerant and non-religious. 🤷🏻
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You're not actively trying to push your views on people posting news in an online forum. This isn't a political forum, and I am specifically calling out the forum SJW trolls that literally no one asked to go around trying to be fake moderators. I am sure we could have coffee or a beer and talk tech and be fine together :) .
 
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Zarathustra[H] said:
That's pretty neat!

Based on the trickle of information coming out about the new Zen5 X3D variants, that they were going to be much faster than Zen4 X3D variants where standard Zen5 wasn't much faster than standard Zen4, I was kind of expecting a change to how they handled the 3D Vacache chip.

I saw the microscopic pictures on YouTube of the interconnects for the Vcache module (TSV's) and how they looked very different and also noted that if they just layered the Vcache the same way on the new Zen5 chip layout the Vcache module would be covering integer cores which would be bad.

I had guessed that they were going to implement some sort heat spreader into the design to better cool the main cores, but this is much simpler and more effective.

I spoke about that in a little more detail here.

The cache simply doesn't produce anywhere near as much heat as the main silicone. I'd course, if I one has to be buried in the stack, it should be the hotter one!

This seems like a really simple "duh" solution to a problem. One of those facepalm "why didn't we do it this way from the beginning" moments. But you don't always think of everything right away. it ought to be very effective.
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Wasn’t the original 3D vcache a shits and giggles thing? They weren’t sure how much it would really help but they decided to provision for it anyways? I thought GN had an interview with AMd folks about it.
 
OKC Yeakey Trentadue said:
Based in what? Because only a minority are vocalizing it.

That's like saying only a minority of people disapprove of congress because only a fraction of a people have formalized a complaint.
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Based on this:
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It's not necessarily representative of the entire forum's opinion for sure, but it's pretty obvious that the current vote tally near the very top of the article clearly expresses that it's essentially about 19 to 4, or nearly 5 to 1 in favor of people not caring about this being posted.

Like this is literally called the "News" section. I think if anything maybe Kyle should change their current definition of what can be posted here, because just linking articles with source and proper tagging should 100% be fine. They're posting news about hardware. Properly cited. I prefer to see it here, rather than not at all. The "must give some of your own text about it" thing just seems kind of pointless if you want to post news and then see other people's opinion. Or like what, you want to just put, "This is pretty kool duuuuuudes" at the beginning of every article? Strictly speaking that would fulfill the criteria. It's also pointless.

Idk if they're a bot or whatever, but imo they're doing fine. I don't understand what people actually want to see in this section anymore. It's baffling my mind. Literally tech news? Nope. If you want to actually change what can and cannot be posted here, create your own strictly defined and thorough rubric and get Kyle and the community to opt in on it. Otherwise this will keep repeating.
 
gtrguy said:
...I’m not combing through each and every subforum to see what’s new. Those guys are out to lunch.
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Exactly this. The backseat-modding has been getting harder to ignore recently. Based on my vast military experience and analysis (mostly Battlefield 3 & 4 but I've seen Saving Private Ryan six times), Tech News has always been the front page first-stop for most people, and thus a feeder forum for all the subs.

The idea that erek's threads are 'flooding the news section' with 'copy pasted' material is impossible to co-sign considering 1) without them, Tech News would be tumbleweeds or some sliding-scale variant thereof, 2) we're in an age where the sites being linked to are themselves a circlejerk of copy-pasted, ChatGPT-morphed regurgitations of one another to begin with. There's no firsthand tech 'journalism' anymore beyond maybe GamersNexus and a couple others at best. And so the last bastion to making sense of this fishfeed is having discussions about the topic with like-minded people, and a thread with a paragraph and a link are the perfect conversation starter for those discussions.

I'm not sure how erek didn't decide to say "fuck it" long ago. Imagine getting relentlessly shit on for what really just comes down to just trying to liven the place up, but continuing on despite it. And that is why on November 5 I will be casting my ballot.. for Erek Hardforum.
 
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gtrguy said:
Exactly, and I’m not combing through each and every subforum to see what’s new. Those guys are out to lunch.
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I think if something is newsworthy, regardless of topic, it belongs in the News subforum.

The other subforums are great for things that don't rise to "front page news" territory, but I am happy the most newsworthy stuff winds up in this forum, as I don't monitor every other subforum, and if it didn't wind up here, I'd never see lots of it.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
I think if something is newsworthy, regardless of topic, it belongs in the News subforum.

The other subforums are great for things that don't rise to "front page news" territory, but I am happy the most newsworthy stuff winds up in this forum, as I don't monitor every other subforum, and if it didn't wind up here, I'd never see lots of it.
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exactly...just look at this pendragon1 guy just from the past week...most of his posts are complaining about News posts...someone needs to talk to Kyle ar another Admin/Mod about this guy...

https://hardforum.com/threads/denuv...-drm-protection-hate.2037545/#post-1045978850

https://hardforum.com/threads/apple...ne-17-pro-technology.2037421/#post-1045974558

https://hardforum.com/threads/denuv...-drm-protection-hate.2037545/#post-1045979056

https://hardforum.com/threads/denuv...-drm-protection-hate.2037545/#post-1045979065

https://hardforum.com/threads/intel...review-roundup.2037560/page-2#post-1045979513

https://hardforum.com/threads/intel...review-roundup.2037560/page-2#post-1045979527
 
StoleMyOwnCar said:
Based on this:
View attachment 687650

It's not necessarily representative of the entire forum's opinion for sure, but it's pretty obvious that the current vote tally near the very top of the article clearly expresses that it's essentially about 19 to 4, or nearly 5 to 1 in favor of people not caring about this being posted.
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Voting on the internet is a waste of time because if half the people aren't bots then they get paid to post on forums to sway peoples opinions. Being wrong isn't a democracy. Not sure this needed to be brought up now in a thread about the Ryzen 7 9800X3D having the CCD on top of the 3D V-Cache. It's news because it's news to me and it's tech which is also interesting to me. Would you look at that, this is the HardForum Tech News. If the complaint is that erek posted half of the written article then thems the breaks.

Another point to make is that this isn't real news. This is a rumor. TechPowerUp got exclusive information on a rumor. Even r/hardware removed TechPowerup's article because they don't consider rumors to be news worthy. Calling out plagiarism on a rumor is like the pot calling the kettle black. Perfectly fine here to discuss the possibilities, but not enough to go around claiming plagiarism spamming. What if this isn't true? What if we're all upset about something that TechPowerUp might have just made up? Not enough reason to get upset about plagiarism to begin with. People on Reddit have written better rumors with more effort.
 
Armenius said:
As to the subject of the article, wouldn't having the cache sandwiched between the PCB and CCD cook it? Wasn't one of the issues with clocking the X3D chips in the first place the thermal sensitivity of the cache stack, not the cores in the CCD? I feel like this solution would be exacerbating the issue, not solving it. I might be misremembering it. All I know is that my 7800X3D hits TJ Max with a 360mm radiator when some games compile shaders, so if this inversion truly is an improvement in overall thermals under full load then I'm all for it.
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Not really.

The limit on CPU thermals is point heating. CPU cores have very active and consequently very hot parts. whose cooling is the limiting factor in keeping the chip from cooking itself. The exact location will move around slightly depending on what type of instructions are running, but every core is a major hot spot when active.

In contrast cache has a very uniform power draw with no hot spots; and is much easier to keep cool.

Edit: Moving the part that needs cooking the most closer to the heat sink/waterblock should improve the overall thermals of the assembly.

Ram and SSDs both have very even thermals since they don't have any point sources. GPUs are actually similar. Each core is a point source, but they have hundreds or thousands spaced evenly over the die that for gaming use they don't really have hot spots per se; just a ton of heat coming from everywhere.
 
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I mostly lurk here and read the forums daily without logging in (I always use the "New posts" button to see what's current). I logged in to say that I'm grateful for erek's postings as many times they are items I probably wouldn't have seen without a post here, and I usually always click through to the original article.

Internet discussion forums are a dying breed, and so many great tech forums are already dead and gone! I'm glad there are people here trying to keep this nostalgic place alive and kicking...........I should start logging in so I can start an ignore list lol.

Edit: Hoping this isn't a rumor! This is something I think I'd finally upgrade the 'ol reliable relic in my signature to!!!
 
Centauri said:
This is the definition of plagiarism in the online world. Lifting images and pertinent article info from everything he posts - I guarantee you that very few people who see these posts click through to the articles and support the sites.

If you want that then set up an RSS feed.

This stuff results in eventual bans elsewhere.
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We click through and read the articles. Its not like there are 200k people looking through the [H] forums. Don't worry the journalistic integrity of tech power up is intact. :rolleyes:
I appreciate the posts I catch the odd article of interest that the sites would not have got me to read otherwise.
 
Centauri said:
This is the definition of plagiarism in the online world. Lifting images and pertinent article info from everything he posts - I guarantee you that very few people who see these posts click through to the articles and support the sites.

If you want that then set up an RSS feed.

This stuff results in eventual bans elsewhere.
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Nope. Plagiarism is defined everywhere to be publishing other people's work as one's own. The (implicit) claim to the moral right to be recognized as the author, when one isn't, is an essential part for something to be called plagiarism, regardless of whether it is online or offline.

At worst, this specific case would be one of copyright infringement. Though I suspect the size of the quote could very well fall under fair use (note: this paragraph is speculative armchair lawyering, not actual legal advice).

As for being annoyed at the "spamming": you are aware that you can save yourself the annoyance by using the "ignore" feature of this forum?
 
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Centauri said:
This is the definition of plagiarism in the online world. Lifting images and pertinent article info from everything he posts - I guarantee you that very few people who see these posts click through to the articles and support the sites.

If you want that then set up an RSS feed.

This stuff results in eventual bans elsewhere.
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You did see the " " around the text right?
 
gtrguy said:
I’m not sure that’s an accurate characterization. I might be more of an SJW (I don’t consider that a pejorative) than most of the complainants. I consider myself socially progressive, liberal minded, left leaning, tolerant and non-religious. 🤷🏻
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An NPC?
Test. Say something interesting?
 
I would be wary about these tbh. It's pretty clear they want to push the envelope to get their clock counts higher, and hopefully these changes will do it. But it's the first they're doing this. The first of any of these new techs is always going to be the beta stage. They could end up hitting it out of the park, or we could have an Intel 13/14th gen situation on our hands in about a year...

The current X3D lines are probably very conservative, which is what has kept them rock solid and reliable. This new gen, for some reason I'm getting a bad feeling, especially about those 9950X3D chips. But hey maybe it's nothing. Hopefully they'll be fine. I think I would wait until they had been out at least a few months before grabbing mine, though.
 
StoleMyOwnCar said:
I would be wary about these tbh. It's pretty clear they want to push the envelope to get their clock counts higher, and hopefully these changes will do it. But it's the first they're doing this. The first of any of these new techs is always going to be the beta stage. They could end up hitting it out of the park, or we could have an Intel 13/14th gen situation on our hands in about a year...

The current X3D lines are probably very conservative, which is what has kept them rock solid and reliable. This new gen, for some reason I'm getting a bad feeling, especially about those 9950X3D chips. But hey maybe it's nothing. Hopefully they'll be fine. I think I would wait until they had been out at least a few months before grabbing mine, though.
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I never like being an early adopter
 
Well, from the looks of it on the official page, the 9800X3D claims its boost clock is 5.2ghz; so it isn't a massive change, but i wonder if that is a hard cap like last generation or if it can be tweaked. The 7950X3D cache-cores were capped at 5250mhz boost for instance. I do wish we'd hear about the 9950X3D release dates and its speed and parameters , notably if its going to have the rumored 3D Cache on both CCDs or not. Still, its good to see the 9800X3D there for those who want a pure gaming chip and even the prices seem reasonable-ish. AMD seems to be doing a good job again when Intel looks to have a more efficient but far more meh performance generation more akin to mobile usage.
 
RanceJustice said:
Well, from the looks of it on the official page, the 9800X3D claims its boost clock is 5.2ghz; so it isn't a massive change, but i wonder if that is a hard cap like last generation or if it can be tweaked. The 7950X3D cache-cores were capped at 5250mhz boost for instance. I do wish we'd hear about the 9950X3D release dates and its speed and parameters , notably if its going to have the rumored 3D Cache on both CCDs or not. Still, its good to see the 9800X3D there for those who want a pure gaming chip and even the prices seem reasonable-ish. AMD seems to be doing a good job again when Intel looks to have a more efficient but far more meh performance generation more akin to mobile usage.
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Gamer's Nexuse put out a video in response to the announcement. And they got more information from AMD designers.

These are unlocked for overclocking. Based on GN's video, I would expect 5.4GHZ to be easy to get, via PBO.


IMO, the price is shit. AMD knows their position right now and are trying to take advantage of it.
But, it will come down fast. By tax season, there will be $360 deals. and I won't be surprised to see near $400, for Back Friday or Christmas, if you exploit coupons, cashback, etc.
 
chameleoneel said:
Gamer's Nexuse put out a video in response to the announcement. And they got more information from AMD designers.

These are unlocked for overclocking. Based on GN's video, I would expect 5.4GHZ to be easy to get, via PBO.


IMO, the price is shit. AMD knows their position right now and are trying to take advantage of it.
But, it will come down fast. By tax season, there will be $360 deals. and I won't be surprised to see near $400, for Back Friday or Christmas, if you exploit coupons, cashback, etc.
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Yes and no. I for one would love to get the 9800x3d knowing I can overclock the hell out of it knowing I can get even more performance. This is something that has been missing with the x3d chips.

I cannot wait to delid one to see if I can get 5.6-5.7ghz all core. Would be one badass gaming chip 😁. To me that justifies the price.
 
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delidding always seems way to risky for me. If i really wanted the big overclocks i get a chilled custom loop and be done with it.
 
either AMD is being very conservative with their performance charts or the 9800X3D will not be a major jump from the 7800X3D (in terms of gaming)
 
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polonyc2 said:
either AMD is being very conservative with their performance charts or the 9800X3D will not be a major jump from the 7800X3D
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I really want to see what ti does for numpy performance for extremely large (10gb+) matrices. Like, does that cache matter for that or no?
 
chameleoneel said:
Gamer's Nexuse put out a video in response to the announcement. And they got more information from AMD designers.

These are unlocked for overclocking. Based on GN's video, I would expect 5.4GHZ to be easy to get, via PBO.


IMO, the price is shit. AMD knows their position right now and are trying to take advantage of it.
But, it will come down fast. By tax season, there will be $360 deals. and I won't be surprised to see near $400, for Back Friday or Christmas, if you exploit coupons, cashback, etc.
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Yep AMD will price drop the most popular gaming CPU in the world. How dare they take advantage of their market position and demand.
 
funkydmunky said:
Yep AMD will price drop the most popular gaming CPU in the world. How dare they take advantage of their market position and demand.
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I feel like they might to get market share and push more people onto AM5 platform. Though depending on how much demand there is and how many they can get on shelves maybe the price will stay up there. For the first time in a long time AMD is truly on top for gaming, so I suppose they can keep the price high. Unless BIOS/motherboard updates do something the current Intel releases are certainly not going to be popular for gaming.
 
Verado said:
Please keep posting Erek. You’re the reason I still come to this forum at all
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Why not just bookmark and frequent the actual news hardware websites and get a dozen headlines at your own leisure rather than having someone regurgitate it or repost it? Just dumping links half a dozen times a day is thirsty for engagement and not really organic. What if everyone did this? Having lots of members reposting headlines over and over for post count or whatever it's a bit cringe. Ask a real question or have a real discussion not just dumping links endlessly. It's basically literally spam posting which there is a good amount of already, no need to flood it with hundreds of tech feeds coming from every angle of the Internet.
 
Flogger23m said:
I feel like they might to get market share and push more people onto AM5 platform. Though depending on how much demand there is and how many they can get on shelves maybe the price will stay up there. For the first time in a long time AMD is truly on top for gaming, so I suppose they can keep the price high. Unless BIOS/motherboard updates do something the current Intel releases are certainly not going to be popular for gaming.
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If they wanted market share they would focus on OEM’s as they make the overwhelming bulk of PC Sales.
They would also be working on getting cheaper boards available on the market.
 
Flogger23m said:
I feel like they might to get market share and push more people onto AM5 platform.
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They don't really need to lower the price of the top chip for that. Lower end am5 pricing is looking not too shabby nowadays, so my guess is that amd is counting on x3d's implied upgrade potential to be that last nudge to move people to the platform.
 
xDiVolatilX said:
Why not just bookmark and frequent the actual news hardware websites and get a dozen headlines at your own leisure rather than having someone regurgitate it or repost it? Just dumping links half a dozen times a day is thirsty for engagement and not really organic. What if everyone did this? Having lots of members reposting headlines over and over for post count or whatever it's a bit cringe. Ask a real question or have a real discussion not just dumping links endlessly. It's basically literally spam posting which there is a good amount of already, no need to flood it with hundreds of tech feeds coming from every angle of the Internet.
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Stop telling people what to do. Its really rude.
 
xDiVolatilX said:
Why not just bookmark and frequent the actual news hardware websites and get a dozen headlines at your own leisure rather than having someone regurgitate it or repost it? Just dumping links half a dozen times a day is thirsty for engagement and not really organic. What if everyone did this? Having lots of members reposting headlines over and over for post count or whatever it's a bit cringe. Ask a real question or have a real discussion not just dumping links endlessly. It's basically literally spam posting which there is a good amount of already, no need to flood it with hundreds of tech feeds coming from every angle of the Internet.
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Because some people enjoy this as a hobby but don't have the time to skim and read through a lot of different websites and articles all the time. It's nice to have a bit of an overview of different subjects. I personally already read up on other subjects unrelated to this forum or hobby and can't do so for a bunch of hardware and software news but like to be kept somewhat up to date on subjects pertinent to this forum. I imagine a lot of other people are in a similar boat.
 
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