AMD Ryzen 7 9800X3D Has the CCD on Top of the 3D V-cache Die, Not Under it

erek

erek

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Dec 19, 2005
Messages
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“This piece of speculation also perfectly explains what "X3D boost" could be. With the CCD making direct contact with the IHS the way it is in non-X3D processors, the X3D processors could have the same overclocking capabilities as the regular chips. There are much fewer thermal hurdles in the way, and AMD can go ahead and give these chips the same TDP and PPT values as regular chips, as well as higher clock speeds. The company used to be conservative with the PPT and clock speeds of its X3D processors in the past.

AMD is expected to launch the Ryzen 7 9800X3D on November 7, 2024.”

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Source: https://www.techpowerup.com/328160/...ccd-on-top-of-the-3d-v-cache-die-not-under-it
 
Centauri said:
Stop this plagiaristic spamming of content from other sites. It floods the News section, you never add anything in the form of commentary, and it hurts the journalistic work done by the site that you're copy-pasting content from.
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I wouldn’t otherwise see this at all so I appreciate it. I also wouldn’t call it plagiaristic since he links to the original article and isn’t presenting it as his own.
 
gtrguy said:
I wouldn’t otherwise see this at all so I appreciate it. I also wouldn’t call it plagiaristic since he links to the original article and isn’t presenting it as his own.
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This is the definition of plagiarism in the online world. Lifting images and pertinent article info from everything he posts - I guarantee you that very few people who see these posts click through to the articles and support the sites.

If you want that then set up an RSS feed.

This stuff results in eventual bans elsewhere.
 
Centauri said:
This is the definition of plagiarism in the online world. Lifting images and pertinent article info from everything he posts - I guarantee you that very few people who see these posts click through to the articles and support the sites.

If you want that then set up an RSS feed.

This stuff results in eventual bans elsewhere.
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It's also in the rules for posting in the news section:

https://hardforum.com/threads/hardforum-tech-news-posting-guidelines-moderation.1979421/
1. A brief or complex introduction to the link must be posted. Just links with no discussion will not be allowed.

Copying and pasting snippets from the article is okay, but you still need to add your own commentary. I have not shared my own links here in a while, but I always start with my own commentary, post the link and picture, and then quote what I think is the most interesting part of the article.
 
Centauri said:
This is the definition of plagiarism in the online world. Lifting images and pertinent article info from everything he posts - I guarantee you that very few people who see these posts click through to the articles and support the sites.

If you want that then set up an RSS feed.

This stuff results in eventual bans elsewhere.
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If he’s linking the source that’s hardly plagiarism.
 
Armenius said:
It's also in the rules for posting in the news section:

https://hardforum.com/threads/hardforum-tech-news-posting-guidelines-moderation.1979421/
1. A brief or complex introduction to the link must be posted. Just links with no discussion will not be allowed.

Copying and pasting snippets from the article is okay, but you still need to add your own commentary. I have not shared my own links here in a while, but I always start with my own commentary, post the link and picture, and then quote what I think is the most interesting part of the article.
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So he really he just needs to say “Here’s an interesting article about the new AMD CPU-“ as a brief introduction and then post what he posted.
 
As to the subject of the article, wouldn't having the cache sandwiched between the PCB and CCD cook it? Wasn't one of the issues with clocking the X3D chips in the first place the thermal sensitivity of the cache stack, not the cores in the CCD? I feel like this solution would be exacerbating the issue, not solving it. I might be misremembering it. All I know is that my 7800X3D hits TJ Max with a 360mm radiator when some games compile shaders, so if this inversion truly is an improvement in overall thermals under full load then I'm all for it.
 
Armenius said:
As to the subject of the article, wouldn't having the cache sandwiched between the PCB and CCD cook it? Wasn't one of the issues with clocking the X3D chips in the first place the thermal sensitivity of the cache stack, not the cores in the CCD? I feel like this solution would be exacerbating the issue, not solving it. I might be misremembering it. All I know is that my 7800X3D hits TJ Max with a 360mm radiator when some games compile shaders, so if this inversion truly is an improvement in overall thermals under full load then I'm all for it.
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Seems like having the cache “insulating” the CCD from the cooling solution would be worse. Hopefully this new way works out better.
 
Centauri said:
Stop this plagiaristic spamming of content from other sites. It floods the News section, you never add anything in the form of commentary, and it hurts the journalistic work done by the site that you're copy-pasting content from.
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Seems you don't know the meaning of the word plagiarism. You're trying to invoke an emotional response. Stop using words incorrectly!!

Also, your hyperbolic bs about bans everywhere else is just flat out wrong.
 
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Centauri said:
Stop this plagiaristic spamming of content from other sites. It floods the News section, you never add anything in the form of commentary, and it hurts the journalistic work done by the site that you're copy-pasting content from.
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You should sue Google and every search engine company then for providing links to content with no summary. :p

erek is doing a tremendous job providing information to [H]ard netizens. I applaud him for his efforts. I tried to do the same for another OC site and realize how much effort it takes. I get alot of my hardware tech news from here.

How much have you contributed lately?

On-topic: After RTFA, this sounds like an awesome change. Higher clocks with 3D cache? Win-win.
 
sleepeeg3 said:
You should sue Google and every search engine company then for providing links to content with no summary. :p
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Dude straight up starts by being definitionally wrong. Then follows up with hyperbolic BS without any evidence to support it. And the most obvious counter example you nicely point out.
sleepeeg3 said:
erek is doing a tremendous job providing information to [H]ard netizens. I applaud him for his efforts. I tried to do the same for another OC site and realize how much effort it takes. I get alot of my hardware tech news from here.
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Agreed.
sleepeeg3 said:
On-topic: After RTFA, this sounds like an awesome change. Higher clocks with 3D cache? Win-win.
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Agreed.
 
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gtrguy said:
I wouldn’t otherwise see this at all so I appreciate it. I also wouldn’t call it plagiaristic since he links to the original article and isn’t presenting it as his own.
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exactly...some people on this forum don't understand what a 'News' section means...they are the ones that should be banned for being an idiot...News is always sourced out from other sites...he doesn't create the News himself...absolutely nothing wrong with linking to a News story...it sounds like a personal issue with the poster rather than any issue with the News itself

erek keep posting and don't let the detractors get in the way
 
Centauri said:
nd it hurts the journalistic work done by the site that you're copy-pasting content from.
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that sound dramatic considering in this case:

Not the entire "article" was copy-pasted
The source, according to TPU (9550pro, a reliable source with hardware leaks... If the leaks are right,) seem to be an anonymous twitter account:
Source: HXL (Twitter)

Are we counting turning public twitter account leak, with almost zero work into 2 paragraph article as journalistic work now ?

Seem like not a single phone call was made to write this.
 
You know, reading about what AMD changed. Since the v-cache is now lowered down, I wonder if this lowered latency even more when it comes to accessing the v-cache. This could explain why they are getting more than just 5% performance (Well leaked performance we have seen).

Cannot wait for the reviews and overclocking!
 
Armenius said:
As to the subject of the article, wouldn't having the cache sandwiched between the PCB and CCD cook it? Wasn't one of the issues with clocking the X3D chips in the first place the thermal sensitivity of the cache stack, not the cores in the CCD? I feel like this solution would be exacerbating the issue, not solving it. I might be misremembering it. All I know is that my 7800X3D hits TJ Max with a 360mm radiator when some games compile shaders, so if this inversion truly is an improvement in overall thermals under full load then I'm all for it.
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The CCD would be putting out way more heat than the 3D cache I would think in most cases so having it being directly cooled instead of having it insulated from cooling by the cache seems worse. Sure there would be some heat on the underside of the CCD but the better you can cool the CCD the less heat it would be throwing at the cache chunk i would assume.

Centauri said:
...what as erek contributed lately? Bot-work?

Get real.
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Don't click on his links if it bothers you so much. This keeps coming up and posters like yourself think they are speaking for the whole forum and you are not. i would not have seen this had Erek not posted it here and there is nothing wrong with this type of post... get a grip
 
Centauri said:
Stop this plagiaristic spamming of content from other sites. It floods the News section, you never add anything in the form of commentary, and it hurts the journalistic work done by the site that you're copy-pasting content from.
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No.

This is how news aggregation sites have worked from the beginning. You link to the original story to give them traffic and post a brief summary/teaser.

This is the way it is supposed to work. The originating site literally gets more traffic this way, and traffic is literally how they make their money.

When I briefly did HardOCP news posts, I frequently got messages from other sites after linking them thanking me for the link.
 
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That's pretty neat!

Based on the trickle of information coming out about the new Zen5 X3D variants, that they were going to be much faster than Zen4 X3D variants where standard Zen5 wasn't much faster than standard Zen4, I was kind of expecting a change to how they handled the 3D Vacache chip.

I saw the microscopic pictures on YouTube of the interconnects for the Vcache module (TSV's) and how they looked very different and also noted that if they just layered the Vcache the same way on the new Zen5 chip layout the Vcache module would be covering integer cores which would be bad.

I had guessed that they were going to implement some sort heat spreader into the design to better cool the main cores, but this is much simpler and more effective.

I spoke about that in a little more detail here.

The cache simply doesn't produce anywhere near as much heat as the main silicone. I'd course, if I one has to be buried in the stack, it should be the hotter one!

This seems like a really simple "duh" solution to a problem. One of those facepalm "why didn't we do it this way from the beginning" moments. But you don't always think of everything right away. it ought to be very effective.
 
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LukeTbk said:
that sound dramatic considering in this case:

Not the entire "article" was copy-pasted
The source, according to TPU (9550pro, a reliable source with hardware leaks... If the leaks are right,) seem to be an anonymous twitter account:
Source: HXL (Twitter)

Are we counting turning public twitter account leak, with almost zero work into 2 paragraph article as journalistic work now ?

Seem like not a single phone call was made to write this.
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The original tweet source is very flimsy evidence indeed

I was disappointed
 
He completely copied most of the article then put quotes around it so while he did leave a link, most Wil not actually go to the link which is dishonest at best.

Quotes ate designed for a short phrase. This is stealing and shows zero attempt to summarize in his own words.

Most importantly, it breaks forum rules as others highlighted.
 
Brackle said:
Just so you know. Kyle keeps a close eye on these forums. If Erek was breaking the rules or a bot, he would of been banned a long long time ago. So complaining about it is a moot point.

Thank you Erek for this, very informative.
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More than likely is because of so many turning a blind eye to it. Now more and more are sick of the trashing (and often duplicating) of the news section so we will see if there are changes.
 
Interesting to see a somewhat notable design departure from the last few X3Ds. Perhaps these won't be such a lame duck overall. If they can overclock I suppose that will determine if it is worth upgrading from a 7800X3D to a 9800X3D.

I also don't mind Erek posting these links. Get a lot of news here and I do click the links most of the time. He also didn't copy/paste the whole article. And forums are largely dying so it keeps traffic up. Unless you want to browse reddit or whatever other shit people use, I don't mind posting links from other sites.
 
OKC Yeakey Trentadue said:
He completely copied most of the article then put quotes around it so while he did leave a link, most Wil not actually go to the link which is dishonest at best.

Quotes ate designed for a short phrase. This is stealing and shows zero attempt to summarize in his own words.

Most importantly, it breaks forum rules as others highlighted.
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I clicked through to the original article.

So they got my traffic.
 
Centauri said:
Stop this plagiaristic spamming of content from other sites. It floods the News section, you never add anything in the form of commentary, and it hurts the journalistic work done by the site that you're copy-pasting content from.
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Nobody cares. This is a forum and not a news website. He also linked the article. You're swaying the conversation away from the news about AMD's CCD.
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OKC Yeakey Trentadue said:
He completely copied most of the article then put quotes around it so while he did leave a link, most Wil not actually go to the link which is dishonest at best.

Quotes ate designed for a short phrase. This is stealing and shows zero attempt to summarize in his own words.

Most importantly, it breaks forum rules as others highlighted.
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“Stealing” LMAO, you’re hilarious.
 
gtrguy said:
Seems like a small minority to me.
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it is a small minority...pendragon1 is even worse as he constantly trolls all the News threads telling erek (and others) that it's not 'News' and should be posted in the main forum sub-sections or in Genmay...the Mods/Admins should explain to him what exactly News is and why it's OK to post it in its own separate section...technically everything could be posted in the main forums instead of News but then what would be the point of a News forum
 
polonyc2 said:
it is a small minority...pendragon1 is even worse as he constantly trolls all the News threads telling erek (and others) that it's not 'News' and should be posted in the main forum sub-sections or in Genmay...the Mods/Admins should explain to him what exactly News is and why it's OK to post it in its own separate section...technically everything could be posted in the main forums instead of News but then what would be the point of a News forum
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Exactly, and I’m not combing through each and every subforum to see what’s new. Those guys are out to lunch.
 
polonyc2 said:
it is a small minority...pendragon1 is even worse as he constantly trolls all the News threads telling erek (and others) that it's not 'News' and should be posted in the main forum sub-sections or in Genmay...the Mods/Admins should explain to him what exactly News is and why it's OK to post it in its own separate section...technically everything could be posted in the main forums instead of News but then what would be the point of a News forum
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I can't even imagine what these online forum social justice warriors must be like in person...
 
The constant harping about what is news and how Erek formats his posts is going to do nothing but drive people away. I know I’m sure sick of it.
Maybe it’s time for the big guy to rule on the appropriateness of Erek’s posts and put an end to it either way. It’s Kyle’s house and his rules and I think we could all benefit from some clarification.
 
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