AMD Ryzen 4000 Rumored to Offer Around 17% Increased Performance

erek

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Why did we even buy Ryzen 3rd Gen if Zen 3 Ryzen 4000 series is out in 2020 already? :(

"Sources are claiming an increase of up to 50% in Zen 3's Floating Point Units (FPU) compared to Zen 2, while integer operations should make do with a 10-12% increase. Cores should remain stable across the board - and with that increase in performance, I'd say an upper limit of 16 physical and 32 logic cores in a consumer-geared CPU is more than enough. Increased IPCs and frequencies will definitely make AMD an even better proposition for all markets - gaming in particular, where Intel still has a (slightly virtual) hold in consumer's minds."

https://www.techpowerup.com/262437/amd-ryzen-4000-rumored-to-offer-around-17-increased-performance
 

jmilcher

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Complaints about faster processors and innovation? Might be on the wrong forum. I am glad we are making these gains and I’ll gladly upgrade again and sell my older stuff. I’ve had each gen so far with Ryzen and not complaining at all.

thanks AMD.
 

erek

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Complaints about faster processors and innovation? Might be on the wrong forum. I am glad we are making these gains and I’ll gladly upgrade again and sell my older stuff. I’ve had each gen so far with Ryzen and not complaining at all.

thanks AMD.
We spent all this money on 3rd Gen, to hear within basically the same month about the latest and greatest Ryzen 4th Gen coming out less than a year later with massive IPC improvements! Bogus! It makes me feel like I wasted my money. My last rig lasted me for like 4+ years as a 1080p max gaming rig. This? mere months before becoming totally obsolete.
 

ChadD

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A big jump one generation to the next... lets hope that is exactly what happens.

There is a good chance the chips after 4000 will be on a new socket and be the first AMD DDR5 / PCIe5 parts. Which I am going to guess means those first gen new socket chips will be close to the same performance as 4000. So a new arch that will get a last AM4 release for upgrades and budget builds... with a possibly as soon as 6-9 months after 4000s launch of a 5000 line. The first gen 5000 AM5 parts are likely not going to make sense for enthusiasts or OEMs building mid range or low end machines. Zen 3 on AM4 first gives AMD the option to still sell latest gen tech into those markets.

I predict 2020 is going to be a very good year for AMD. They will officially take the performance crown from Intel in a way no one can argue anything other. Hopefully they do get there 8 core APUs out and actual Zen2 based mobile parts. With Zen 3 in servers and desktops... and Zen 2 finally in laptops and APUs they will be coming for all of Intels cookies. Hopefully one of these multi billion dollar AI company purchases pays of for Intel.
 

Mav451

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I feel like Erek is being a bit tongue-in-cheek with that comment lol.
My disappointment at Ryzen 3000-series overclocks is exactly why I didn't buy into it though - at least at retail prices. Who am I to turn down a used combo, if a good deal comes up though.
 

dgz

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We spent all this money on 3rd Gen, to hear within basically the same month about the latest and greatest Ryzen 4th Gen coming out less than a year later with massive IPC improvements! Bogus! It makes me feel like I wasted my money. My last rig lasted me for like 4+ years as a 1080p max gaming rig. This? mere months before becoming totally obsolete.
How did humanity survive the 90s and early 2000s. If it were up to Intel, we'd all still be using good ol 4 cores. That's stable, baby
 

erek

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How did humanity survive the 90s and early 2000s. If it were up to Intel, we'd all still be using good ol 4 cores. That's stable, baby
except those security vulnerabilities are unacceptable
 
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ChadD

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Another problem is rumors that Ryzen 4000 may not even be supported on X570 / AM4, so that's a big problem
AMDs server guru has shot that one down already. He stated that Zen 3 based Epyc will not be switching to DDR 5 or PCIe5. You can read between the lines.... its going to slot into existing Epyc boards. It also makes the rumor of Zen3+ being a lot closer behind then you would expect make a lot more sense.

Zen 3 4000s will likely be the AM4 / SP3 last hurrah. With Zen3+ being AM5 / SP4
 

Lakados

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Why did we even buy Ryzen 3rd Gen if Zen 3 Ryzen 4000 series is out in 2020 already? :(

"Sources are claiming an increase of up to 50% in Zen 3's Floating Point Units (FPU) compared to Zen 2, while integer operations should make do with a 10-12% increase. Cores should remain stable across the board - and with that increase in performance, I'd say an upper limit of 16 physical and 32 logic cores in a consumer-geared CPU is more than enough. Increased IPCs and frequencies will definitely make AMD an even better proposition for all markets - gaming in particular, where Intel still has a (slightly virtual) hold in consumer's minds."

https://www.techpowerup.com/262437/amd-ryzen-4000-rumored-to-offer-around-17-increased-performance
I expect Ryzen 4 to be available early 2020, to the same availability that Ryzen 3 was in early 2019. AMD is great at announcing a product then delaying the launch for 9 months or so for another 3-4 months of extremely limited availability.
It’s not a bad thing, hype helps sales they just have to be careful if they get too many people holding out for Ryzen 4 they are going to have a lot of stagnant Ryzen 3’s they are gonna have to sell at a loss.
 

M76

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In what self centered universe is this a problem? "Well now my purchase is worth less" If you were willing to pay for it, it was worth it to you, your price didn't go up, and the performance you got for it didn't go down, so you have no reason to be upset.

Innovation is good, and be glad they don't just sit on their laurels while ahead like intel did.
 

Dark12

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In what self centered universe is this a problem? "Well now my purchase is worth less" If you were willing to pay for it, it was worth it to you, your price didn't go up, and the performance you got for it didn't go down, so you have no reason to be upset.

Innovation is good, and be glad they don't just sit on their laurels while ahead like intel did.
I think he was joking but I can understand why someone might feel that way to a small extent.

I was kinda salty when nv released 2070super right after I bought my 2070 even though it didn’t gimp my card.
 

erek

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In what self centered universe is this a problem? "Well now my purchase is worth less" If you were willing to pay for it, it was worth it to you, your price didn't go up, and the performance you got for it didn't go down, so you have no reason to be upset.

Innovation is good, and be glad they don't just sit on their laurels while ahead like intel did.
it's just pretty expensive, and also was a lot of work and stress to go through this upgrade cycle !!!

first we were told September for the 3950x then Nov 25th, and a lot of us pulled all nighters to get one, was really stressful!

then i ran into a bad batch of ram they caused me a lot of turmoil to troubleshoot, lost a 6TB HDD in the process!! having to go through a fresh install of Windows and configuring everything took awhile to get stabilized and figure everything out on the new platform!!
 

cyklondx

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Why did we even buy Ryzen 3rd Gen if Zen 3 Ryzen 4000 series is out in 2020 already? :(

"Sources are claiming an increase of up to 50% in Zen 3's Floating Point Units (FPU) compared to Zen 2, while integer operations should make do with a 10-12% increase. Cores should remain stable across the board - and with that increase in performance, I'd say an upper limit of 16 physical and 32 logic cores in a consumer-geared CPU is more than enough. Increased IPCs and frequencies will definitely make AMD an even better proposition for all markets - gaming in particular, where Intel still has a (slightly virtual) hold in consumer's minds."

https://www.techpowerup.com/262437/amd-ryzen-4000-rumored-to-offer-around-17-increased-performance
Zen3 is nothing much but improved version... nothing really great. Rumors are rumors only.
What you'll likely get is +200MHz base.
 
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Derangel

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We spent all this money on 3rd Gen, to hear within basically the same month about the latest and greatest Ryzen 4th Gen coming out less than a year later with massive IPC improvements! Bogus! It makes me feel like I wasted my money. My last rig lasted me for like 4+ years as a 1080p max gaming rig. This? mere months before becoming totally obsolete.
There was a time when this was the norm. It doesn't make anything obsolete.
 

elite.mafia

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We spent all this money on 3rd Gen, to hear within basically the same month about the latest and greatest Ryzen 4th Gen coming out less than a year later with massive IPC improvements! Bogus! It makes me feel like I wasted my money. My last rig lasted me for like 4+ years as a 1080p max gaming rig. This? mere months before becoming totally obsolete.
what in the world are you talking about.... any zen2 chip is going to last a long time...
 

ChadD

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Zen3 is nothing much but improved version... nothing really great. Rumors are rumors only.
What you'll likely get is +200MHz base.
Nope its a new design. Sure exact products are rumors. AMD has laid out their plans and talked about the Zen3 architecture at least in general terms to server customers. We know they have a new caching system cause AMD has said so... but sure the details are still lite.

https://hothardware.com/news/amd-zen-3-epyc-milan-cpu-ipc-gains

No reason to believe the Zen 3 based 4/5000s are going to be drastically different from zen3/4 Epyc for some reason.

Zen3 Epyc Millan
- All chiplets have a shared cache system now (even if this is the only major change that makes it a different arch)
- SP3 socket (so expect 4000 to be AM4)
- DDR 4 / PCIe4 (so no change there... should be a drop in replacement at least on newer Epyc/570)

Zen4 Epyc Genoa
- 5nm
- SP4 socket. (should make 5000 the first AM5 boards)
- DDR 5 / PCIe5
 

erek

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what in the world are you talking about.... any zen2 chip is going to last a long time...
i hope you're right!!! i just feel that with all these "leaks" (intentional) that they're short selling any incentive for people who were holding out for stock of the Ryzen 3 parts, so now they're just gonna keep waiting a few more months !!! not as good for selling current things if you ask me to tell everyone that they got way better coming soon !!!!
 

ChadD

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i hope you're right!!! i just feel that with all these "leaks" (intentional) that they're short selling any incentive for people who were holding out for stock of the Ryzen 3 parts, so now they're just gonna keep waiting a few more months !!! not as good for selling current things if you ask me to tell everyone that they got way better coming soon !!!!
Back in the 90s early 2000s when Intel and AMD where actually both pushing performance. I remember buying plenty of CPUs.

And heck back then there was actually software based reasons to move to the newest stuff... now there really isn't. Games released this year don't just run on old hardware the recommended CPUs are often 5-6 years old. All production software I have used will still run, and often run well on old high end CPUs. No matter what AMD does with 15-20% gains every year... if the software industry doesn't give anyone a must have reason to upgrade. We will all be happy with our Zen2s for 5-10 years. lol :) (at least for gaming the rate of movement there means Zen2s won't even hit the recommended spec lists for another 4 or 5 years... never mind the min list)
 

elite.mafia

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i hope you're right!!! i just feel that with all these "leaks" (intentional) that they're short selling any incentive for people who were holding out for stock of the Ryzen 3 parts, so now they're just gonna keep waiting a few more months !!! not as good for selling current things if you ask me to tell everyone that they got way better coming soon !!!!
Don't you remember the zen2 leaks? Remember how wrong those were?

Also chips this fast won't just become obsolete in one generation unless there is some breakthrough with a new architecture
 

erek

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Back in the 90s early 2000s when Intel and AMD where actually both pushing performance. I remember buying plenty of CPUs.

And heck back then there was actually software based reasons to move to the newest stuff... now there really isn't. Games released this year don't just run on old hardware the recommended CPUs are often 5-6 years old. All production software I have used will still run, and often run well on old high end CPUs. No matter what AMD does with 15-20% gains every year... if the software industry doesn't give anyone a must have reason to upgrade. We will all be happy with our Zen2s for 5-10 years. lol :)
Why don't they start innovating in new optimized performance media extensions? Something new analogous to the SIMDs and so forth, but like something as big of a bang as MMX was with the Pentium MMX hype / release at least?
 

M76

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I think he was joking but I can understand why someone might feel that way to a small extent.

I was kinda salty when nv released 2070super right after I bought my 2070 even though it didn’t gimp my card.
The difference is that NV released the super cards out of the blue almost, they weren't something you could anticipate 6+ months before. Getting upset about something that might release late next year is kind of silly.
And it certainly won't make Zen2 obsolete any faster. Only software can make a cpu obsolete by demanding more performance than it can provide, and that is unlikely to happen for many years.
 

capt_cope

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No kidding, big jumps every year was the norm back then. Miss it.
Remember when your $3000 rig with a Pentium II 333mhz was the envy of all your friends and basically obsolete in 2-3 years? Pepperidge farm remembers.

If the 4000 series ends up being 15-20% faster than my 3900x... SIGN ME UP! It's been too long since I upgraded rig for a reason other than boredom.
 

erek

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Remember when your $3000 rig with a Pentium II 333mhz was the envy of all your friends and basically obsolete in 2-3 years? Pepperidge farm remembers.

If the 4000 series ends up being 15-20% faster than my 3900x... SIGN ME UP! It's been too long since I upgraded rig for a reason other than boredom.
:(
 

Mode13

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It was never a secret that ryzen 4000 would be just around the corner, that's why I went with a 3700x figuring I'll buy a 4950x in a couple years (if applicable to x570) or just get a much cheaper used 3950 in a few years.

I can understand the need for more single core for the 240hz crowd or (barely) those on the absolute bleeding edge of GPU, but it just plain seriously doesn't matter for the rest of us mortals. Even the most poorly CPU optimized engines *cough* Dunia *cough* [Far Cry 5] are pulling 145FPS average (in their not quite realistic benchmark) on my 3700x w/ SMT on (if I drop the settings to 720P low so as to not get GPU bottlenecked anyway)..

I miss those Pentium II days.. The gap between a Pentium II Deschutes and a Pentium III Coppermine was clinically massive. Now we nitpick over whether we can get 140 FPS vs 150 FPS :p
 

cyklondx

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Nope its a new design. Sure exact products are rumors. AMD has laid out their plans and talked about the Zen3 architecture at least in general terms to server customers. We know they have a new caching system cause AMD has said so... but sure the details are still lite.

https://hothardware.com/news/amd-zen-3-epyc-milan-cpu-ipc-gains

No reason to believe the Zen 3 based 4/5000s are going to be drastically different from zen3/4 Epyc for some reason.

Zen3 Epyc Millan
- All chiplets have a shared cache system now (even if this is the only major change that makes it a different arch)
- SP3 socket (so expect 4000 to be AM4)
- DDR 4 / PCIe4 (so no change there... should be a drop in replacement at least on newer Epyc/570)

Zen4 Epyc Genoa
- 5nm
- SP4 socket. (should make 5000 the first AM5 boards)
- DDR 5 / PCIe5

The changes of shared cache system revolves around changes to memory controller. From what i remember the current memory controller already has its own cache, so they'll just expand it. It may be just epyc change though; depends on the cost | this change should bring memory latency down some more.

In actual game/typical compute at 8-16c systems it may not bring much or any gain at all.
 

HAL_404

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I am glad we are making these gains and I’ll gladly upgrade again and sell my older stuff.
I just upgraded from a FX-5350 to Ryzen 5 2600. Went to eBay today to check the going rate for a Used FX-8350 ... cheapest BIN listing was $130 :eek:

I can just imagine what the 2600 will sell for next year when I upgrade to a 3000 series. Might be able to just jump right to the 4000 series?
 
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erek

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I was able to sell my Xeon e5 2696 v3 18core haswell-ep for $500 which is pretty good for how old it is which certainly takes the sting out of a 750 dollar cpu upgrade
 

Mode13

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I just upgraded from a FX-5350 to Ryzen 5 2600. Went to eBay today to check the going rate for a Used FX-5350 ... cheapest BIN listing was $130 :eek:

I can just imagine what the 2600 will sell for next year when I upgrade to a 3000 series. Might be able to just jump right to the 4000 series?
Assuming you mean FX-8350, those prices are outrageous tbh and nobody should buy them. In auctions the 8350 goes for $35-50 now and newegg literally dumped them on sale for around that price not too long ago. Microcenter is selling the 2700x for $150 in stores right now. Used 1700x goes for less than $100.

It's hard to sell straight into an upgrade on the consumer platforms, as people are willing to spend early adopter taxes. 2700x for example instantly lost $100+ with 3000 series launch and is now half of what it was last christmas NEW IN BOX. If you want to optimize your performance per dollar, it's generally best to wait a year until a new gen is out and buy the previous years model.. if you can resist the urge to be on the bleeding edge. same will happen to the 3700x-3900x by next christmas.

prices tend to fare better on intel parts, even though it's utterly illogical.. Guess we pay in dollars per average game frame rate alone.
 

ChadD

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The changes of shared cache system revolves around changes to memory controller. From what i remember the current memory controller already has its own cache, so they'll just expand it. It may be just epyc change though; depends on the cost | this change should bring memory latency down some more.

In actual game/typical compute at 8-16c systems it may not bring much or any gain at all.
From what I read they where talking about 32mb of shared cache between the chiplet clusters. Which would be a pretty major change. No doubt we will have to wait and see... Forrest Norrod says its a completely new Architecture. I can't see why he would lie or even just a little fudge that... if he could just say node reduction and bump in performance. That is all server planners want to hear anyway. ;)
 
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