AMD, Roy Taylor, the Nano, and the Press @ [H]

Discussion in 'AMD Flavor' started by FrgMstr, Sep 9, 2015.

  1. SRB

    SRB n00b

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    Say what you want, The attitude difference between the paper launches of the nano vs the story on the nito kind of tells me there's a bit more than just fact based reviews. I can't remember a more gushing evaluation of something that's actually still short of a paper launch. I've never owned an AMD/ATI card, just where my upgrade cycles wound up, but it seems to me for a version 1.0 of some brand new tech, AMD wasn't that far off the mark. And shortages of new tech and teething pains are nothing new. This is hardly a failure marking the end of AMD.

    Not to say the AMD rep wasn't a joke either It's obvious overreacting is not in short supply anywhere.
     
  2. Cobalt35

    Cobalt35 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Can you provide us with examples of the things you speak of? Or is it just rhetoric? Or even worse is it "AMD is mad so there must be something there"?
     
  3. pcgeekesq

    pcgeekesq [H]ard|Gawd

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    I disagree. HardOCP has no obligation to post AMD-sponsored promotional efforts. Running forums costs money, you know?

    They were probably doing it as a courtesy to AMD. I'd say that courtesy was not merited.
     
  4. FrgMstr

    FrgMstr Just Plain Mean Staff Member

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    You have no idea what you are talking about.
     
  5. Xero717

    Xero717 [H]Lite

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    Man.... this is some [H]ardcore drama... I've been reading this site for years but never have I seen the manchild ranting this feud has brought to the table.

    Let's all be honest here, AMD is done. Roy Taylor-like thinking isn't going to harm them anymore than they've already harmed themselves.

    Just take pride in knowing when it all burns down, you'll be within driving distance to piss on the ashes. Until then, keep posting the good shit we've all come to expect from [H] and carry on!
     
  6. Nenu

    Nenu [H]ardened

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    He is presenting the internal attitude of AMD to us, thats why he hasnt had his head torn off.
    He says the things he does in the way that he does because he feels he has the backing of his peers.
     
  7. Solhokuten

    Solhokuten [H]ard|Gawd

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    Agreed, though I've never had any issues as severe as BSODs. My issues have generally been with Crossfire. I'm hoping AMD makes a come back. My first PC builds back in the Duron days were AMD and I'll always have a soft spot for them. That being said, AMD really needs to step up their game. I used to buy AMD fairly often when it came to video cards, but for the last 4 years or so Nvidia has had the better Value IMHO.
     
  8. pcgeekesq

    pcgeekesq [H]ard|Gawd

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    What is good for the site is maintaining integrity.
    The cost of purchasing cards to review is trivial by comparison.
     
  9. f0d

    f0d n00b

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    LONG time reader - 0 posts though (im quite happy lurking)

    Kyle and everyone else here at [H] please keep up the noBS comments and editorials, its the reason i come here to [H] - always give your opinions (whether strongly negative or positive) and stay unbiased (never seen any bias - just straight out facts and opinions on those facts)

    just wanted to let you know i think you guys do great work and to keep it up :)
     
  10. bAMtan2

    bAMtan2 [H]ard|Gawd

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    the frequency at which amd releases new enthusiast products indicates that this news is not a big deal. see you in 5 years for their next product launch
     
  11. HOOfan_1

    HOOfan_1 Limp Gawd

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    This is where the Philip J. Fry "not sure if serious" meme picture goes

    The Nito was invented as a joke by Kyle
     
  12. haste.

    haste. [H]ard|Gawd

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    His/her 1st day on [H] didn't get the joke.
     
  13. Amaroth

    Amaroth Gawd

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    I've been reading [H]ardocp since 98-00. Far too long to actually remember a precise date. The only bias I have ever seen [H] display is bias and loyalty to its readers. Ive seen praise for 3dfx, Ati, Nvidia, Amd, Intel and numerous other brands and products. Ive also seen [H] turn around and point out the flaws and fuck ups. [H]ardocp will always be my #1 source of information due to their integrity and knowledge.
     
  14. chenw

    chenw 2[H]4U

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    What controversy?

    The marketing lies or the performance issues that HardOCP already had pointed out during their GTX 970 reviews BEFORE the issue was actually blown open?

    The controversy does not retroactively degrade any performance the reviewers saw in game play. It's not like the card has a programmed self destruct button saying "If my memory segmentation is ever found out, I will destroy the GPU core". Any issues that would arise from the memory segmentation is already part of [H]'s review, the reviewers just initially didn't know the reasons why (they had assumed, IIRC, caused by the smaller memory bandwidth compared to the 980).
     
  15. polive

    polive [H]ard|Gawd

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    I worked for AMD for a few months testing vid cards in various configurations, generally on open benches, not cased, just open horizontal mobos in most test scenarios. Never thought "warming up" a component was worthy of anything. How is that a thing?
     
  16. Nenu

    Nenu [H]ardened

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    Cards throttle more as temp rises.
    It can also reveal instabilities
     
  17. FrgMstr

    FrgMstr Just Plain Mean Staff Member

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    Hehe, many thanks for the kind words.


    I really thought that was the last we would be saying about this whole damn deal, otherwise I would not have been making Nito wisecracks.

    Lots of cards throttle after the cooling systems on the cards become saturated.
     
  18. chenw

    chenw 2[H]4U

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    It holds a lot more scientific weight than running it from cold, a warmed up GPU represents a more accurate operating environment than running it cold.
     
  19. FrgMstr

    FrgMstr Just Plain Mean Staff Member

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    Yep.....just like when you are actually gaming. :)
     
  20. bigdogchris

    bigdogchris [H]ard as it Gets

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    Nice write up on what's going on. We all know what AMD's unwritten definition of fair is, but I'd like to see Roy stumble through an actual explanation and evidence of reviews which he deems "unfair".
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2015
  21. polive

    polive [H]ard|Gawd

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    We did run benchmarks constantly throughout the day, I just never thought of the warming process in a closed case because I personally did not use one as a quality engineer. I was told on day one to build a machine to benchmark on. Wasn't given a case. I tested for driver quality and to see if improvements were made or not. I made a LOT of spreadsheets.
     
  22. supermodelthriller

    supermodelthriller n00b

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    It's that AMD is 'mad'......
     
  23. StaticShoes

    StaticShoes Limp Gawd

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    Enthusiasts build PCs of all different sizes, shapes, colors. Some people want powerful SFF LAN party rigs, others want nice HTPCs, and some want a huge beast of a desktop machine they can marvel at. [H] has readers and forum members from all the above mentioned types of enthusiasts. In my opinion, anyone who really cares about what's inside their PC is an enthusiast, even if it's comprised of older hardware. So in my mind, for AMD to believe the Nano isn't relevant to [H] readers, is just ridiculous. I know, I know, this paragraph is off topic, sorry.

    On topic, AMD_Roy needs a .gif - Open mouth, Insert foot. He just seems like the type that breaks awkward silences by saying something to make situations worse. I think he would fit well into a South Park episode.
     
  24. DraginDime

    DraginDime [H]ard|Gawd

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    You talk about AMD like it's a person. While I'm sure there may be a couple of people who are upset at Kyle, I really doubt that AMD as a whole is going to blackball [H] over it.
     
  25. digital_buzzard

    digital_buzzard n00b

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    Oh come on. Don't do that!

    Look, I was only pointing out that there was a controversy RE: 970 (and it was a controversy; whether it was caused by unfair marketing campaign on behalf of AMD or legitimate grievances by the public, team Green did issue a statement to quell the public outrage)...that's all. I understand fully that there was no performance degradation of said GPU. And also, In my humble opinion, I thought this site was a bit muted in regards to the 970 at that time. I have never accused this site for having Green envy...ever.

    I don't want to start a fight here over dead issues. I hate the AMD vs. nVidia crap. I hate it even more than The State of Texas. Really!

    Hey, I see that you have a SS X-850.
    See, we're already on common ground!
     
  26. FrgMstr

    FrgMstr Just Plain Mean Staff Member

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    I talked to AMD earlier and gave some specifics as to what I wanted to see done on the personal front. Roy just called with a moderator and apologized for our exchange this morning and explained that the "fair review" thing was really not in context. He said that was truly not his message that unfair reviews were done. I asked Roy to apologize to Tech Report, TPU, and the community in writing. I was told all this would happen or already has.

    The fact is at the least AMD has handled this whole thing horribly and its current PR department needs some real leadership to keep it focused. AMD PR might as well be chickens with its head cut off now days....
     
  27. Arbit3r

    Arbit3r Limp Gawd

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  28. Brackle

    Brackle Old Timer

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    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

    I guess.....AMD might fire an employee in the coming days.

    I mean AMD did not need bad press, and got it...and now the PR guy is back tracking.

    Bravo Kyle for keeping this topic alive and get some movement on this bullshit PR they did to you guys.
     
  29. razor1

    razor1 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    LOL yeah some likes some S&M lol
     
  30. Brent_Justice

    Brent_Justice Moderator

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    I'm surprised this is news to you, and testers at AMD. It was the 290X series itself which spawned the focus on warming cards up to evaluate. The 290X on its reference cooler would start out at a high frequency and over time throttle back as much as 200MHz after gaming for 15-30 minutes. It could not maintain its 1GHz advertised speed. This is what prompted AMD to specify an "Up To" clock speed. It worded the clock speed incorrectly from the beginning, confusing people and creating the whole GPU throttling backlash.

    Even NVIDIA GPUs will start off at at a high GPU Boost speed for the first 5 minutes of gaming, and then fall off to a consistent GPU clock speed.

    If you run a benchmark from a cold start, and the benchmark is only 5 minutes you are only testing the high-end of clock speed. If you leave the card gaming for 30 minutes, and re-test, you'll find the results different.

    This is for both AMD and NVIDIA GPUs. Gaming over time affects the consistent clock speed on GPUs. The fact this isn't common knowledge, and tested correctly, worries me. It is something to think about in all video card reviews, how they are tested, matters.
     
  31. Weenis

    Weenis I said WEENIS, not...

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    What's mind blowing is, instead of saying "Hey, you know what.. you've been a supporter of some of our technologies (eyefinity, duh) and provide fair and quality reviews, I'm going to make sure you get a card for review"... he went with the douchey response that proves they're trying to cherry pick reviewers. His only other option would have been to just keep his face shut.

    Underhanded practices like this have no place in this industry. Doing crap like this will harm them far more than protecting their stock prices a few points, because you can be sure people will be bitching if their cards performance doesn't match reviews. And we all know the supply problems mean that the majority of those pricey cards aren't sold in the first batch.
     
  32. pcgeekesq

    pcgeekesq [H]ard|Gawd

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    Knowledgeable and principled tech journalism 1, AMD 0.

    AMD needs to understand who reads sites like HardOCP and The TechReport. We're not idiots.
    E.g.: I was a microprocessor architect at a Fortune 500 firm for many years. Now I am an attorney. I have read HardOCP almost every day since ... last century sometime? LOL.
    Getting old, starting to forget stuff.
     
  33. KickAssCop

    KickAssCop [H]ardness Supreme

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    Roy apologizes and TR forgives.
     
  34. Kor

    Kor 2[H]4U

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    There is this thing called money which allows you obtain many things, including hardware.
     
  35. Nenu

    Nenu [H]ardened

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    All this and the card isnt even released yet lol.
    Well done for eventually forcing a decent response.
    The rest of their conduct remains to be seen.
     
  36. Arbit3r

    Arbit3r Limp Gawd

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    On nvidia side they would throttle a little but it wasn't near as much. Plus nvidia did have a base clock the card wouldn't run below.
     
  37. haste.

    haste. [H]ard|Gawd

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    Wow. Kyle 1 - amd 0. Even tech report is chalking it up to this "rant" - do know that Roy now truly hates you with every bit of his heart lol
     
  38. Brent_Justice

    Brent_Justice Moderator

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    Yes, but the point is, they start off at a different clock speed then they end up at, after spending time gaming. A lot of tests from other sites are done with short benchmarks. If you do this, especially from a cold start, the results will not reflect what gamers actually experience out of the card while gaming for more than 15 minutes. It is imperative to game on the card for 15 minutes and then do your tests, absolutely important, else your results will be inflated. This is important for AMD and NV GPUs, and especially cards that are specifically capped via thermal/power limits, like the Nano.
     
  39. Paul_Johnson

    Paul_Johnson [H] Admin Staff Member

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    And like that, the Tweets are no more.
     
  40. KickAssCop

    KickAssCop [H]ardness Supreme

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    But he will call to apologize