Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by TheRookie, Jun 9, 2019.
Memory bus width will obviously be 256.
Can't wait for this keynote. Should be quite informative. We are supposed to hear AMDs Ray Tracing strategy. I hope it isn't just corporate speak with nothing concrete.
And of course important Navi Details. The two big unknown items of interest are Price and Performance, like they always are...
The thing is the Nvidia cards run cooler and quieter. I want this thing to be a beast when it comes to perf per dollar but it can’t sound like a delta fan doing it.
There will be custom cooled AIB versions for this one (AsRock was showing off their new Taichi and Phantom coolers at Computex) so AMD's usual jet engine fans shouldn't be as much of an issue.
Quite the flat statement to be saying IMO...always, for reals? ..........bloody hell m8
GTX700 series and up started going "cooler" though the quiet part is absolutely subjective AND depends on the OEM of the fan being used (which can and does change often enough)
Either way, a card "eating" 200watts will "shit out" that 200w and push into the room as heat, Nvidia does not break physics... That being said, absolutely the "top end" for Nvidia "currently" vs AMD currently, the Nv cards run cooler primarily due to not having the same number of transistors, amps, volts, clocks yada yada, though is much more "simple" if use less power pushes out less heat, less heat usually means fans spin less means quieter (depending on design of the cooling system etc.
Radeon 7, Vega (all variants really) RX 4xx/5xx and less than a month Navi, IMO Nvidia is not mach 10 faster and "sips power through a sippy cup straw" they are moderately faster (sometimes) and a chunk less power (sometimes) beyond that, is just chasing that specific flavor of kool-aid so you can wear their fancy Tshirt in the fan parade.
all I am saying is that 1070s and 2070s and up seem to be able to push the most FPS at the lowest latencies and yet have the lowest decibels doing it with stock/founder's edition versions -- that's impressive as hell. There's no reason the AMD cards couldn't do the same
I have been waiting to buiild a new gaming rig for a long time now.... was waiting for zen 2 then, thought well navi is close. Then thought well zen 3 is coming now, and navi should be right behind.
Now I'm thinking... some pretty good deals at the moment on 2700s and 2700xs. Power supplies are cheap and so are my electric bills... so perhaps the deals I'm seeing on Vega 56/64 might be just fine for a couple years. lmao
I'm starting to think if I wait another month or two and Navi benchs come back looking as so so as they seem to be shapping up. I might really kick myself for not grabbing some discounted stuff today.
The more I read about Navi the more it feels to me like... AMD is quite happy to have scored the Google Game Server contract, and don't really much care if they ever have top performing GPUs again. Its in their interest to let NV continue selling $1000+ top of the line cards it just makes Googles service all the more attractive to the masses (especially if google come this Xmas start showing off streamed and fully ray traced versions of games like Doom). AMD wins if the top of the line GPU market dies a slow death.
If I were to buy one, I wouldn't have it any other way- my 1080Ti got me addicted to AIOs on GPUs.
Most (modern) AMD cards undervolt well with some tweaking. Back in the day they used to bin tighter with more model segmentations E.g. X800XL, X800XT, X800XT PE. Only difference was clocks, all were un-cut cores. A resistor mod was often the difference between professional and gaming cards back then. Nowadays they have very wide binning ranges it appears with reference cards. Nvidia is similar too in this regard with reference models.
AIBs do have a quite an array of bins on some cards though, seems they do this even more with Nvidia stuff, you have to pay for good cores if the manufacturer is binning them when you are purchasing.
My V64 blower certainly isn't as bad as people parrot them to be regarding noise and thermals either.
Interested to see if the new features of Navi deliver or not.
My only concern with AIOs is the reliability/longevity aspect when using over long term in secondary boxes or hand me downs. Air works. And works pretty damn well if you get a good setup or good pre-baked card.
For reasonably spec'd cards with high-end air coolers, the performance is there; but these cost more than the water coolers. I share your concern for longevity and I don't have a real answer for it; I assume I'll have to figure it out eventually.
It's important to highlight this when it comes to undervolting. One might get a killer card, and the next example of the same SKU might not tolerate undervolting at all. And it's really hard to say just how likely one is to get either.
About the only thing we can state is that AMD doesn't see enough benefit in binning to sort out the higher-performing SKUs to make a pure enthusiast part among their consumer releases, while examples of such are found in enough quantity among enthusiasts to be notable.
Or they are binning them... and the yields are not super great. So they are stockpilng inventory waiting for NV to announce their refresh. So they can decide if they want to release something with good supply.... or something super skimed to edge them out just slightly. (perhaps) Worse case in 5 or 6 months they just use those chips in the standard cards.
For what little it is worth, my EVGA GTX 1070 SC Black Edition (no back plate, thermal pads installed) was quieter than my EVGA RTX 2070 XC Ultra. The 1070 was practically silent, only getting notable (but still very quiet) with ambient temps around 92F. My RTX 2070 got louder than my 1070 ever did when it was around 88 in the room. Not loud, but you could hear it. Kind of disappointed it was a regression despite it using three slots for the heatsink. But it is still pretty quiet.
Will have to look into a three fan cooler next time maybe.
Yes it's also a cost/time/marketing thing to segment the product line further, they don't have the volume of Nvidia at the moment. If you think of the averages, they want maximum silicon yield of 'x functioning CUs/etc' parts, so catering for outliers makes it a pretty good bet you can undervolt in most cases. I see far, far more successfully undervolted than not undervolting successfully cases, especially on AMD.
When AIB flavour A starts binning a few months later and stops selling the reference model, that's when you are more likely to get screwed on undervolt and especially OC lottery. Which is why I'm so glad AMD joined Nvidia in selling direct finally.
In the aftermarket products, of people that communicate on forums...
I bring it up because the vast majority could be 'better than stock', or the vast majority (including OEM sales as well as the majority of people who don't contribute to forums) could be poor undervolters / overclockers. We just cannot know, and so making predictions or plans on AMD's current behavior cannot be a good predictor.
next xbox and ps5 both have Navi and the both have ray tracing, already confirmed. So I am sure AMD has something up their sleeve. May be the software wont be ready yet but Navi die is bigger than people were thinking, who knows what they have up their sleeve, but clearly next xbox is bragging hardware based ray tracing with Navi. I am not sure why AMD will cripple their GPUs when both consoles will have it. Something is up for sure.
What the hell is going on with AMDs naming conventions?
It’s not even official yet. They are going back to simple naming schemes instead of code names. Like the Radeon 5700. Going back to roots. What’s wrong with that? I actually like them going back to simple numbers vs fury, vega crap. This name in title is not official, It’s a rumor. I think you will see rx 5700 and 5800 and 5900 moving forward. So far 5700 is confirmed.
I’m not so sure they have something up their sleeves. It might be exactly as Crytek did with the Vega 56 and their raytrace demo. Developers have access to making AMD hardware do raytracing, extend it to consoles. Nothing special just similar specialized instances with consoles in mind.
I haven’t really seen anything yet to make me think AMD has an answer to the RTX cores for denoising and handling path tracing.
I am wondering the same thing about Ray Tracing, but it could just be timing. Consoles are a year away, Navi Cards are Next month. So they might not be ready with RT HW yet, but will be by next year.
You're assuming way too much about raytracing on consoles on the basis of them predictably latching onto the latest marketingwords.
"8K" and "raytracing" is the new "4K" and "VR" in nextgen buzzword bingo. The reality will be some watered down, uprezzed, hybridized, checkerboarded and cut-corner interpretation of each. Think raytraced, 8K pong.
Rockstar’s Table Tennis 2?
You literally missed my point. What am I assuming here that is confirmed directly from microsoft? Hardware raytracing is hardware raytracing. Its ray tracing. So again what did I assume? lol. I was as clear as I could be, hey Xbox and PS5 both have Navi and they are both saying they have hardware based ray tracing, so what did I assume here that Navi might have hardware ray tracing of some sort now or down the road?
Didn't mention anything about 8k, or bla bla or bla lol. Just ray tracing portion of it. I am not believing the 8k crap gaming at 120hz crap or anything for a bit. But hardware raytracing is hardware ray tracing and they both have Navi.
Microsofts exact words were Hardware based ray tracing. lol
Not really saying they will have it tomorrow, that is unknown but I don't expect it. But I do think they will have something in time the console's launch. I was just going off microsoft mentioning hardware based ray tracing aspect of next xbox.
So, did they enable RT stuff in BFV and Metro on the 2070?
This is essentially equal performance unless BFV is your game, so it all comes down to pricing.
Man am I in a pickle. I always planned on buying the NAVI part. Now the next CoD is going to have RTX.
I'm on a GTX 1070. I'm on a ultrawide 1440p Freesync monitor. (LG 34GK950F)
Is it even worth going up a notch? RX 5700XT or RTX 2070 (super!)?
I don't mind the $$ so much, but it's even harder to justify to the wife if I upgrade in July and then again come Nov/Dec if CodMW is too hard on it.
"You just bought a new video card! REEEEE"
1440p RT on a 2070 with a FPS game? It barely does 50 fps on low RT in the [H] review on BF which is their 'flagship RT title'.
If you want the ray tracing then I would just wait for AMD's driver to come out and see how ray tracing performance at 1440p compares to a 2070. No need to agonize over it at this point.
To be fair to NV and Battlefield. The [H] numbers are very old now... and that game has been updated specifically for RTX performance a few times since.
However lets all get real.... if you want to actually play at 1440 with ray tracing on. The 2070 isn't going to cut it >.<
RT is a feature a bit ahead of its time. RT isn't going to hit games for real for another few years... at which point we will have 3 Ray Tracing cards to choose from NV / AMD / Intel... until then FORGET about silly RT. Its going to suck unless you can afford a 2080 TI... and even then Its going to get out done this Xmas by streaming versions of RT games.
On topic... it looks like this AMD card is basically a (NV 1770) ok that doesn't exist. But I imagine nvidia could release one if they really feel threatened by AMDs pricing.
I will be considering these new Navi myself as I will likely build a new Ryzen machine for me... and I'm a die hard Linux guy who would prefer to run AMDs open source drivers over NV crap. However unless AMD has a shockingly good value sku under this one (say to replace the current budget hero 570) I don't expect AMD to pick up much market share with these.
I agree it's all about pricing. Really hoping they do something bold and don't just give us a $50 discount off of the 2070.
Hoping that pricing is included in the announcement today.
anyone know the time of announcement?
Everything I've read says 3pm Pacific. YouTube Live.
remember AMD is trying to move away from being the value option to the performance option, naturally will be following be holding the pricing line with team green. While Imho thats sad, caz AMD should challenge NVIDIA with the same challenge it did with the Zen launch, and then move up on price, I dont have a R&D costs nd balance term sheets sooo meh.
my advice is, hope for the best, prepare for the worst/disappointment interms of pricing. Leaks showcase at least performance is on par, rather then subpar!
2 hours from now
If the non-XT version clocks as high as the XT, it should be within 10% in performance. May be a value king if it's $300.
It really depends on pricing. Although I have a Gsync monitor and will always go Nvidia, I do want Nvidia to do well just to bring down the Nvidia Tax!
Kind of sad that someone (at AMD?) keeps leaking all their slides.
Show me the pricing!
That would basically make it a 2060ish, I am not sure if the 2070 is more than 10% better that a 2060.
But idk, I hope to see better than 2060 performance for $300 to be a real value king.
EDIT## According to tpu the 2060 is 20% slower than the 2070. So we'd be basically looking at a 2060ti for $300. Not bad.