AMD Radeon RX 470 And RX 460 Details

Trepidati0n

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Oct 26, 2004
Messages
9,219
There are a hell of a lot of people who simply won't spend $300 + on a video card. This is where AMD will do very well. I'm a bit fed up with the cost of high end video cards.

Are you fed up with the price of a top end BMW too? Would you rather all cards perform at the $300 or less price point and not have that upper market just because it makes you feel bad?

The reason high end cards have gone up in price (even your beloved AMD did this) is they have to do so much more than they ever used to. Don't get me wrong, we did have a holy grail period when the FPS/$ was stupidly good for the monitors that existed. However, that was just a bit of luck. As resolution increases and requirement for detail increases...the amount of horsepower required did not scale in a linear fashion....not even at the old fashioned "double it every 3 years". This almost required video card makers to put in more than expected. While $600 for a top end card is a "bit high"...in reality, it isn't that far off considering what is on there.

Fuck, if Intel was scaling over time at the same performance rate as graphics processors...my mind would be boggled.
 

Nukester

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Mar 21, 2016
Messages
1,429
Are you fed up with the price of a top end BMW too? Would you rather all cards perform at the $300 or less price point and not have that upper market just because it makes you feel bad?

The reason high end cards have gone up in price (even your beloved AMD did this) is they have to do so much more than they ever used to. Don't get me wrong, we did have a holy grail period when the FPS/$ was stupidly good for the monitors that existed. However, that was just a bit of luck. As resolution increases and requirement for detail increases...the amount of horsepower required did not scale in a linear fashion....not even at the old fashioned "double it every 3 years". This almost required video card makers to put in more than expected. While $600 for a top end card is a "bit high"...in reality, it isn't that far off considering what is on there.

Fuck, if Intel was scaling over time at the same performance rate as graphics processors...my mind would be boggled.

You are thinking like a person that has a lot of expendable cash. Nobody is arguing that point. But like most, I like to live on a budget. (I would like to retire one day).
 

Trepidati0n

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Oct 26, 2004
Messages
9,219
You are thinking like a person that has a lot of expendable cash. Nobody is arguing that point. But like most, I like to live on a budget. (I would like to retire one day).

You are missing the point. You can't expect me to give you any credibility with a comment like "I'm a bit fed up with the cost of high end video cards" because it is a wholly selfish argument that does not look at the bigger picture. It has been shown time and time again that coming straight into middle ground with a product produces mediocrity in the long run. Without high-end products and all the things that come with them, solid performance at budget levels just doesn't occur in any reliable fashion or even a reasonable pace. Therefore to get that $200 video card that does stomp most games @ 1080p...you did NEED that $600 video card that stomps games @ 1440p (or 4k).

Secondarily, do I buy $600 video cards...fuck no and I have lots of expendable cash. Do I buy $300 video cards..yep. Would I buy a $200 video card if it made sense for my needs..yep. But do I, for one second, whine about $600 video cards which are the gateway to the cads I buy...HELL NO. I am glad there are people who are such gaming enthusiasts that they enable me and the vast majority to play ball as well...even if in a slightly "lesser" fashion.
 

Daeyx

Weaksauce
Joined
Feb 28, 2012
Messages
72
Kijiji is your friend, i got a r9 290 @ CAD$210(Thats like $160 USD) with 2 years in store warranty remaining almost 2 years ago. Right now you can grab a 980 for less than 350 if you're lucky

Memory Express IPR?
 

Private_Ops

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 4, 2007
Messages
1,870
Going back to my Celery 300A days and Abit MOBO's...

I never spend more than $150 on any single computer component. I'm an old school OC'er. I purchase quality components that are overclocker friendly and this 470 appeals to me in terms of performance and pricing.


Hello fellow cheap ass. ;) Just kiddin. Same here though, most expensive item in my rig is the RX480... and thats out of the norm. First "high end" video card I've ever owned.

I kinda feel like we're seeing a time when less than $200 (or 150) on each item in your setup can deliver rather good performance.
 

Nukester

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Mar 21, 2016
Messages
1,429
Hello fellow cheap ass. ;) Just kiddin. Same here though, most expensive item in my rig is the RX480... and thats out of the norm. First "high end" video card I've ever owned.

I kinda feel like we're seeing a time when less than $200 (or 150) on each item in your setup can deliver rather good performance.

Exactly. For 1080p gaming, I just do not see any point in spending over $300! That's a perfectly fine card.
 

a3venom

Gawd
Joined
Mar 3, 2015
Messages
695
While the RX 480 is definitely the sweet spot for 1080p, i wouldn't say its "high end" by any means. It is not enough for absolutely maxing out the most demanding titles for 1080p 60. (GTA 5 with MSAA for eg).
2x - 4x Anti Aliasing makes everything look so much better and leaving it out isn't fair. High end would be atleast a 1070/Fury X which would allow you to crank up those settings for the most eye candy.

I run a 290 which is great but i'd rather play @ 45 fps with Anti-aliasing than look at jagged lines on my screen in 60fps.
 

Ieldra

I Promise to RTFM
Joined
Mar 28, 2016
Messages
3,539
While the RX 480 is definitely the sweet spot for 1080p, i wouldn't say its "high end" by any means. It is not enough for absolutely maxing out the most demanding titles for 1080p 60. (GTA 5 with MSAA for eg).
2x - 4x Anti Aliasing makes everything look so much better and leaving it out isn't fair. High end would be atleast a 1070/Fury X which would allow you to crank up those settings for the most eye candy.

I run a 290 which is great but i'd rather play @ 45 fps with Anti-aliasing than look at jagged lines on my screen in 60fps.

To be fair the recent trend towards temporal filters has resulted in both better looking and better running solutions.

I'm more bothered by shimmer than by static aliasing, in gta 5 in much happier using txaa
 

a3venom

Gawd
Joined
Mar 3, 2015
Messages
695
To be fair the recent trend towards temporal filters has resulted in both better looking and better running solutions.

I'm more bothered by shimmer than by static aliasing, in gta 5 in much happier using txaa

If you look at this -

The shiny shit is what makes this look so awesome, this is an easy mod to apply and i get 45-55 fps with 2x MSAA with this shit installed
 

Private_Ops

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 4, 2007
Messages
1,870
While the RX 480 is definitely the sweet spot for 1080p, i wouldn't say its "high end" by any means. It is not enough for absolutely maxing out the most demanding titles for 1080p 60. (GTA 5 with MSAA for eg).
2x - 4x Anti Aliasing makes everything look so much better and leaving it out isn't fair. High end would be atleast a 1070/Fury X which would allow you to crank up those settings for the most eye candy.


In my situation. I'm on a 900p monitor (1080p is a planned upgrade) and I don't play GTA 5 or the newest Battlefield. The heaviest game I currently have is Fallout 4 but, I mostly play World of Tanks, Red Orchestra 2, and Starcraft 2.
 
Joined
Jan 8, 2003
Messages
558
You are missing the point. You can't expect me to give you any credibility with a comment like "I'm a bit fed up with the cost of high end video cards" because it is a wholly selfish argument that does not look at the bigger picture. It has been shown time and time again that coming straight into middle ground with a product produces mediocrity in the long run. Without high-end products and all the things that come with them, solid performance at budget levels just doesn't occur in any reliable fashion or even a reasonable pace. Therefore to get that $200 video card that does stomp most games @ 1080p...you did NEED that $600 video card that stomps games @ 1440p (or 4k).

Secondarily, do I buy $600 video cards...fuck no and I have lots of expendable cash. Do I buy $300 video cards..yep. Would I buy a $200 video card if it made sense for my needs..yep. But do I, for one second, whine about $600 video cards which are the gateway to the cads I buy...HELL NO. I am glad there are people who are such gaming enthusiasts that they enable me and the vast majority to play ball as well...even if in a slightly "lesser" fashion.
Having the halo product helps the brand but it doesn't automatically make the midrange products better. The most successful auto company is Toyota and they hardly compete with the Rolls Royces and Lamborghinis of the world at all. One of AMD's all-time most successful cards was the 4850/70, which never competed with NVidia's top end on performance but owned the midrange. People may be individually dumb, but the market will always reward a great value when it sees one.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NKD
like this

Trepidati0n

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Oct 26, 2004
Messages
9,219
Having the halo product helps the brand but it doesn't automatically make the midrange products better. The most successful auto company is Toyota and they hardly compete with the Rolls Royces and Lamborghinis of the world at all. One of AMD's all-time most successful cards was the 4850/70, which never competed with NVidia's top end on performance but owned the midrange. People may be individually dumb, but the market will always reward a great value when it sees one.

Toyota owns Lexus...sigh. Where do you think Camry frame came from in the 2007+ generation? It came from the lexus frame design. Again...halo tech makes the general tech we use in every day products much more often than not. Try again.
 

a3venom

Gawd
Joined
Mar 3, 2015
Messages
695
In my situation. I'm on a 900p monitor (1080p is a planned upgrade) and I don't play GTA 5 or the newest Battlefield. The heaviest game I currently have is Fallout 4 but, I mostly play World of Tanks, Red Orchestra 2, and Starcraft 2.

Makes sense, you should def upgrade your CPU too when you can. 860k will massively bottleneck a rx480 in a lot of situations. You probably know that already
 

Private_Ops

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 4, 2007
Messages
1,870
Makes sense, you should def upgrade your CPU too when you can. 860k will massively bottleneck a rx480 in a lot of situations. You probably know that already


880K but, yea, I went in knowing its a bottleneck. Not to worried about it.
 
Joined
Jan 8, 2003
Messages
558
Toyota owns Lexus...sigh. Where do you think Camry frame came from in the 2007+ generation? It came from the lexus frame design. Again...halo tech makes the general tech we use in every day products much more often than not. Try again.
Nope. The only Lexus that competes with the brands I mentioned is the LFA, and it's by no means the fastest hypercar, not even in the same category as the top end cars from Bugatti, Ferrari, etc. They also have nothing in the same ballpark as ultra-luxury marquees like Rolls, Bentley, or even the high end Mercedes. They have precisely zero halo cars, yet they are the most successful because of the quality of their midrange.

You also never addressed the success of the 4800 series.

Halo products help brand recognition, but they're not the primary ingredient for success, and certainly not the determinant of midrange quality.
 

ZeroBarrier

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 19, 2011
Messages
357
You are missing the point. The reason we can enjoy such mid range products at affordable prices is because of the higher end products (regardless I they are super high end or just higher end than mid range). Mid range products inherit a lot from their higher end counter parts, and without the high end products we would all be stuck with mid range products at high end prices.
 

KazeoHin

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Sep 7, 2011
Messages
8,397
More in need of knowing: Can an RX470 unlock to a full RX480. And if so, are the PCBs the same layout? Because if the chip can be unlocked and waterblocked, you have one heck of a good value.
 

jamesgalb

Gawd
Joined
Feb 11, 2015
Messages
565
More in need of knowing: Can an RX470 unlock to a full RX480. And if so, are the PCBs the same layout? Because if the chip can be unlocked and waterblocked, you have one heck of a good value.

>Spend $150
>Unlock extra cores
>Unlock extra ram
>Have 480 8gb

sounds legit :p
 

c3k

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 8, 2007
Messages
2,289
Agreed...1080 is a sweet spot because it brings a very niceresolution at an affordable price. To run 1080 also has a low entry price (relative terms). Moving to 1440 requires about double the total outlay for similar performance. Going from 1440 to 4k is a 3x or 4x cost increase. (Very rough numbers.) That's why 4k hasn't caught on. (Assume similar screen technologies and response times, etc. Let's not bog down over technicalities and edge effects. This is a back of the envelope comparison.)

Plot the $ needed for 60-90 fps on several AAA titles on one axis (gpu and monitor), and the resolution on the other axis (either horizontal lines or total pixels), and you'll see that the 1080's market dominance is not random. It reflects a rational market-driven consumer response.
 
Joined
Jan 8, 2003
Messages
558
You are missing the point. The reason we can enjoy such mid range products at affordable prices is because of the higher end products (regardless I they are super high end or just higher end than mid range). Mid range products inherit a lot from their higher end counter parts, and without the high end products we would all be stuck with mid range products at high end prices.
I didn't miss the point, I just disagreed with it. Research and engineering advances in the private sector depend on the profitability of the components they produce, and are not dependent on the existence of a no-compromises version of the product. The vast majority of the profits in the GPU market are at the <=$250 price point. Choosing to release at that price point first and temporarily abandon the high-end is not a blunder, an indictment of AMD, or evidence of inferiority of their cards, in fact in can be a smart move.

28 nm to 16/14 nm is a very big jump, and moves to a new process node tend to involve high defect rates. You can either design a big GPU and know that most of the results will have bad CUs, or you can design a small GPU so that most of them will be functional. Going the former route, you sell the percentage of defect-free GPUs as 1080's, another chunk of minor-defect GPUs as 1070's, and take a loss on the rest. Going the latter route, you ignore the high-end market at first until yields improve. Neither philosophy is wrong, they each have their advantages and drawbacks. Choosing the latter is not some kind of cardinal sin.
 

NKD

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
8,869
I hope AMD can survive until they release their paper-weights at the end of this year.

nVidia has had such a large head start that I wonder what their future holds considering that once AMD's godlike gpu comes out, the 1080ti's will decimate it. When Zen comes out intel will be afk and come out on top.

Also, its been almost a decade and people still are stuck at 1080p?

You hope amd does well and at the end you sound like a fanboy. lol talking about at 1080ti that is not even out and it decimating vega that is not out. You may have taken the time spy benchmark too seriously,,lol
 

pendragon1

Extremely [H]
Joined
Oct 7, 2000
Messages
35,801
More in need of knowing: Can an RX470 unlock to a full RX480. And if so, are the PCBs the same layout? Because if the chip can be unlocked and waterblocked, you have one heck of a good value.
judging by the cards that lisa held up in the promo video I would HIGHLY doubt that this is possible. the cards are totally different and the pcb isn't even close to the same thing.

You hope amd does well and at the end you sound like a fanboy. lol talking about at 1080ti that is not even out and it decimating vega that is not out. You may have taken the time spy benchmark too seriously,,lol
he DID NOT seem like a red fan at all in his post. amd paper weight, 1080ti decimating vega... seems like a green/blue fan to me...
 

sirmonkey1985

[H]ard|DCer of the Month - July 2010
Joined
Sep 13, 2008
Messages
22,230
The cost of entry for 2560x1440 is still too high to be honest (it's too high for me at least). 2-3 years from now maybe, but not this year.

same, i thought about it but jesus my eye sight and reaction times bad enough these days with a 24" 1920x1200 monitor, 1440 would probably drive me insane. although it would be awesome for the first couple days..


You are missing the point. You can't expect me to give you any credibility with a comment like "I'm a bit fed up with the cost of high end video cards" because it is a wholly selfish argument that does not look at the bigger picture. It has been shown time and time again that coming straight into middle ground with a product produces mediocrity in the long run. Without high-end products and all the things that come with them, solid performance at budget levels just doesn't occur in any reliable fashion or even a reasonable pace. Therefore to get that $200 video card that does stomp most games @ 1080p...you did NEED that $600 video card that stomps games @ 1440p (or 4k).

Secondarily, do I buy $600 video cards...fuck no and I have lots of expendable cash. Do I buy $300 video cards..yep. Would I buy a $200 video card if it made sense for my needs..yep. But do I, for one second, whine about $600 video cards which are the gateway to the cads I buy...HELL NO. I am glad there are people who are such gaming enthusiasts that they enable me and the vast majority to play ball as well...even if in a slightly "lesser" fashion.

well said and agree with you completely.
 
Last edited:

Presbytier

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 21, 2016
Messages
1,058
same, i thought about it but jesus my eye sight and reaction times bad enough these days with a 24" 1920x1200 monitor, 1440 would probably drive me insane. although it would be awesome for the first couple days..
Also now these cards support HDR and there are no HDR monitors that don't cost nearly 30k, but they claim consumer ones are coming which means one more reason to wait to upgrade a monitor.
 

sirmonkey1985

[H]ard|DCer of the Month - July 2010
Joined
Sep 13, 2008
Messages
22,230
Also now these cards support HDR and there are no HDR monitors that don't cost nearly 30k, but they claim consumer ones are coming which means one more reason to wait to upgrade a monitor.

only if it's a feature you care about which for the majority of people i doubt it's going to matter.
 

Presbytier

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 21, 2016
Messages
1,058
only if it's a feature you care about which for the majority of people i doubt it's going to matter.
You under estimate the power of marketing, also never assume what the majority wants. They are making a big deal about HDR TV and console support of HDR content they won't want the appearance that PC tech is behind.
 

NKD

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
8,869
Toyota owns Lexus...sigh. Where do you think Camry frame came from in the 2007+ generation? It came from the lexus frame design. Again...halo tech makes the general tech we use in every day products much more often than not. Try again.

I never bought my toyota that I don't have now because of lexus. People buy toyota because of budget. It's ridiculous this stuff doesn't apply to cars. Why is Hyundai so popular? I have a sonata limited, love the fuckin car, bought it because it was best bang for buck. Plus this doesn't apply to graphics cards, people may buy nvidia because they have had the performance lead for so long. They don't have a different name on top of gtx 1080 its still nvidia, so it applies directly to the lower end cards. Nvidia across the board, its not a lexus camry, its toyota camry, while all the gtx cards are nvidia branded. Make sense?
 

NKD

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
8,869
This seems to happen every time there is a big node change. Seems like they are both having hell of a time keeping up production. I am particularly disappointed in AIB rx480 cards not showing up already. We might see sapphire and powercolor and xfx before msi, gigabyte and asus. Because the last three would rather sell gtx 1060 cuz I bet it has higher profit margins and the first three have no choice but to release them as soon as they can because they have nothing else to sell. It just makes sense.
 

cageymaru

Fully [H]
Joined
Apr 10, 2003
Messages
20,784
Some RX 460 leaks. Asus Strix with a 6 pin connector. More images in the article. Hope the reference version doesn't have a 6 pin. Thinking about a new HTPC build.
ASUS STRIX Radeon RX 460 OC Leaked | VideoCardz.com

ASUS-STRIX-RX-460-6_VC.jpg


ASUS-STRIX-RX-460-5_VC.jpg


ASUS-STRIX-RX-460-27_VC.jpg


ASUS-STRIX-RX-460-4_VC.jpg
 

xorbe

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Sep 26, 2008
Messages
6,028
Why would they use DOOM on ultra @ 2560 to demo a 128-bit video card ... 30 fps, tiny yay!
 

Shintai

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jul 1, 2016
Messages
5,678
Why would they use DOOM on ultra @ 2560 to demo a 128-bit video card ... 30 fps, tiny yay!

Because its enough to VRAM limit the 2GB reference card and get a "big difference".
 

JustReason

razor1 is my Lover
Joined
Oct 31, 2015
Messages
2,483
I don't get why 1440, I mean I do because likely the limitations of reference were greater there, but this is a 1080p card at best.
 

NKD

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
8,869
Man you guys don't think from your brain because you disregard the specs because you are busy bashing AMD. Have you seen the cards specs? Did some of you really think it would beat the 370 with those specs. The chip is cut down like crazy. You got a card that is super cut down with 896 shaders, 128bit. AMD could have easily put few hundered more shaders on it. But I guess they would rather have you jump on rx 470. You want a replacement of 370/x look for the 470. or be disappointed.

Replacements as below.
360 -> 460
370/x-> 470
380/x-> 480
 

NKD

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
8,869
Top