AMD Radeon R9 Nano Video Card PAPER Launch @ [H]

[Snus]

You are very resistant to following the basic premise of running a business successfully.
AMD are going to go bankrupt if they keep doing things like this.
This is why we dont like it.

The card appeals to a very small group of enthusiasts because it isnt fast enough and is way too expensive.
Sod the SFF claims, it needs to appeal to a wider audience after Fury X failed to.
But it has even less appeal.
Its too expensive for nearly all SFF builders as well so its a dead card unless it gets a serious price drop.
This is why we dont like it.

You constantly harp on about how it is good for SFF and then berate people for not understanding or wanting to care about your concept of SFF.
Seriously, take your argument somewhere that cares about your niche.

Yes it does apeal to a very small group, but can AMD make fijii as it is faster, havnt they tried what they can do with what they got, AMD does not have anything that can beat Nvida in singel gpu big cards.

The fastest they could get out of fijii was the Fury X, and well that one is big if you include the radiator.

You can poop in one hand and wish with the other, see which hand you have most in.

Fair enough that the average pc builder who likes to call them enthousiasts doesnt like to hear that there is absolutly nothing HARD abaut building powerful and big, i do wish Nvida woulg give its best gpu to SFF, and well i am quite sure that they will with the next generation, when they get the same teknolegy.

 

[Snus]

I said it before and I will say it again, the R9 Fury Nano has only one problem: PRICE! Sorry but, they are not worth $650 regardless of what others may try to reason out. Also, I am an AMD fan but know that the card is not worth $650.

Well without knowing how much this new hbm costs its hard to say.

But regardless of produckt, if you sell it for less than it costs to produce it, the fact is that then the more you sell, the more you loose.

I dont know if AMD could have done the same as Nvidia, skip HBM1. would HBM2 even be there without HBM1.

And well if Nvidia had HBM1, maybe their current GPUs would be more expensive, but probbaly faster than they are, that i dont know.

 

[Nenu]

Yes it does apeal to a very small group, but can AMD make fijii as it is faster, havnt they tried what they can do with what they got, AMD does not have anything that can beat Nvida in singel gpu big cards.

The fastest they could get out of fijii was the Fury X, and well that one is big if you include the radiator.

You can poop in one hand and wish with the other, see which hand you have most in.

Fair enough that the average pc builder who likes to call them enthousiasts does like to hear that there is absolutly nothing HARD abaut building powerful and big, i do wish Nvida woulg give its best gpu to SFF, and well i am quite sure that they will with the next generation, when they get the same teknolegy.

Your points are well known already.
If they get it right next gen, by all means crow about it, but right now you are just making up anything to find opportunities to big it up.
Take it somewhere that cares.

Well without knowing how much this new hbm costs its hard to say.

But regardless of produckt, if you sell it for less than it costs to produce it, the fact is that then the more you sell, the more you loose.

I dont know if AMD could have done the same as Nvidia, skip HBM1. would HBM2 even be there without HBM1.

And well if Nvidia had HBM1, maybe their current GPUs would be more expensive, but probbaly faster than they are, that i dont know.

We know.
Telling us over and over again wont help anything.
It needs to drop in price or its a dead card.
You can make up any story you like, it wont make a difference.

 

[DracoNB]

Nenu we know you think AMD is a huge failure, but please tell me how you'd do this build w/o this card:

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1874981

If you aren't interested in builds like that, this card is not for you, so why do you keep posting in here?

 

[Snus]

Your points are well known already.
If they get it right next gen, by all means crow about it, but right now you are just making up anything to find opportunities to big it up.
Take it somewhere that cares.



We know.
Telling us over and over again wont help anything.
It needs to drop in price or its a dead card.
You can make up any story you like, it wont make a difference.

Would u enlighten me abaut the costs with HBM1, couse well i frankly have no clue what it costs to make fijii with HBM, do u?

 

[kac77]

I said it before and I will say it again, the R9 Fury Nano has only one problem: PRICE! Sorry but, they are not worth $650 regardless of what others may try to reason out. Also, I am an AMD fan but know that the card is not worth $650.

Depends on the performance. If it performs closer to a 970 then it's way overpriced. However, if it performs more like a 980 then I think the price is completely fair for the form factor. At that point it's just slightly pricey but not enough to completely diss the card.

However, I think we should stop pretending that AMD has some weird lock on overpriced cards. If anyone has forgotten the Titan Z debuted at close to $3000 and even now is being sold at $1,600, which is $400 more than two 980TI's in SLI. At the time of it's release it was no faster than two 780 TIs yet cost twice has much. Guess what the selling proposition was? You guessed it Form Factor. The thing about that release will all sound very familiar. It was largely paper launched. It was extremely pricey and the performance sure as shit didn't match what they were asking for it and when I checked the few that did review it the price of it was largely overlooked (i.e there was no melt down). You know how many pages took up the forums around it's release and price? 8 pages....freakin eight.

 

[kcthebrewer]

Depends on the performance. If it performs closer to a 970 then it's way overpriced. However, if it performs more like a 980 then I think the price is completely fair for the form factor. At that point it's just slightly pricey but not enough to completely diss the card.

An overclocked ITX 970 is as fast as a stock 980.

The only way that Nano will look like a good value is if it is 15-20% faster than a stock 980. If it can't do this, the card is DOA.

 

[Nenu]

Would u enlighten me abaut the costs with HBM1, couse well i frankly have no clue what it costs to make fijii with HBM, do u?

No, use Google.

 

[Brent_Justice]

Given that we still are on 28nm, the fastest card AMD seem to be abel to build is the Fury X, and the fastest Nvida can build is Titan.


And arnt both AMD and Nvida giving its best when it comes to thoose big cards.

I see that even Brent does not understand the concept of SFF powerbuilds, sure you can fit thoose 300w gpu cards + those 95w cpus with giant coolers in some of the hybrid SFF cases. and yes some even take full size PSU.

I sure can understand that most does not like real SFF, things havnt changed from the years back when i used to build SFF powerbuilds.

For most of you, it seems like AMD has commited a crime for creating a powerful small card that is 175w. and for fucks sake, 175w is a LOT to cool, argh i get kinda upset of the ignorance of a site that supposedly should be for entusiasts.

What if any is Hard abaut building powerful and big ??????

Is the fastest low tdp cpus from Intel cheaper and faster than thoose that are higher tdp?.

Is SFF psu cheaper than ATX psu ?

I commend them for creating a seemingly powerful, yet small and compact video card.

I do not commend them for charging the same price as the faster and more powerful Fury X it is based on.

The fully powered Fury X cannot keep up with the similar priced GTX 980 Ti. If the Fury X cannot even give us near 980 Ti performance, then the performance experienced from the Nano is even more out of place at that price point. It is not giving us the kind of performance one expects and can get from the competition at the same price, form factor aside. That is its inherent challenge.

 

[Nenu]

Nenu we know you think AMD is a huge failure, but please tell me how you'd do this build w/o this card:

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1874981

If you aren't interested in builds like that, this card is not for you, so why do you keep posting in here?

You know very little.
My last card was AMD, 2 before that was ATI, 2 before that was ATI.
I think their latest range of cards are a failure because the competition has them licked.
Dont blame me.
Excuse me for taking an interest in AMDs fortunes.

The card will hardly see any SFF use because there are better cards for the money.
Even if you want to build the tiniest system, you need to have a large wallet. Most will pass.
Its not just a SFF card, it could be used in any system but the price is way too high for mass market acceptance, no matter the use.

 

[kac77]

An overclocked ITX 970 is as fast as a stock 980.

The only way that Nano will look like a good value is if it is 15-20% faster than a stock 980. If it can't do this, the card is DOA.

Um the 980Ti at stock is 20% faster than a 980. So you think a card in that power envelope should out perform the top sku ? That's just nonsensical.

 

[Snus]

#Brent, #Nenu

Without knowing the costs of fijii with HBM, there is no way of telling if the price is right or wrong.

Simpel math however is easy, you dont sell a produckt for less than it costs to make, that goes for evry product there is, it can however be sound to sell limitid amount of a product, just to get some of the loss of devloping it back, and create a marked for it, and well as far as i know HBM1 is needed inorder to get HBM2.

And yes i have googled it, and as far as i know this still stands

"Ultimately AMD Is not willing to discuss HBM costs or yields at this time. Practically speaking it’s not a consumer matter – what matters to video card buyers is the $650 price tag on the R9 Fury X – and from a trade secrets perspective AMD is loath to share too much about what they have learned since they are the first HBM customer and want to enjoy as much of that advantage as is possible. At this point I feel it’s a safe bet that the 4GB HBM implementation on Fiji is costing AMD more than the 4GB (or even 8GB) GDDR5 implementations on Hawaii cards, but beyond that it’s difficult to say much more on costs."

from http://www.anandtech.com/show/9390/the-amd-radeon-r9-fury-x-review/6

 

[Nenu]

dbl post

 

[kac77]

#Brent, #Nenu

Without knowing the costs of fijii with HBM, there is no way of telling if the price is right or wrong.

Why is the cost of HBM your point of contention? The cost of manufacturing really is something that AMD can control. So I don't think it makes much sense to use that as an excuse. I'm not saying that AMD is being treated entirely fairly here but the cost of manufacturing is something fully within their power. It just doesn't seem like a good point to make.

 

[Nenu]

#Brent, #Nenu

Without knowing the costs of fijii with HBM, there is no way of telling if the price is right or wrong.

You are lost I'm afraid.
The price matters for the market.
It is too expensive for the market.

We know this because there are better products for the same price.
They clock up to 30% faster (some even higher) as well which annihilates the Fury/Nano cards.

 

[kac77]

We know this because there are better products for the same price.
They clock up to 30% faster (some even higher) as well which annihilates the Fury/Nano cards.

Thermal footprint matters here as well. Nano isn't just about footprint but also power usage. I've never bought an AMD card but the Nano is actually intriguing for what I think I might use it for. In order to be viable for me it has to outperform the 970 by a pretty significant amount. It needs to perform like a 980. If it does then the buy isn't out of wack for me and makes a whole lot of sense for my next build.

 

[Vittra]

One point not made, the Fury X can fit in the same form factor as the Nano. Just need a place for the rad, but most ITX cases do have a space for it.

Just a note - the Nano is purportedly 6" in length. The Fury X is around 7.5" if I recall correctly. Based on photos, this looks to be correct. The most obvious cases where this matter are some of Lian Li's ITX offerings, but there are custom SFF designs where this would matter as well - the Osmi - if it ever comes out - is a potential candidate.

 

[thedocta45]

Nenu we know you think AMD is a huge failure, but please tell me how you'd do this build w/o this card:

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1874981

If you aren't interested in builds like that, this card is not for you, so why do you keep posting in here?

I would just make the case accommodate a Fury X which is just an inch and a half longer.

That case was custom built for the Nano so it's not really a good example, find a consumer case that can't fit a Fury X. Then you might have a point.

But if I have 700 bucks to blow on a video card and needed it for a sff case I'll get a Fury X, all AMD is doing is cannibalizing there own all ready niche market.

 

[FrgMstr]

 

[Snus]

You are lost I'm afraid.
The price matters for the market.
It is too expensive for the market.

We know this because there are better products for the same price.
They clock up to 30% faster (some even higher) as well which annihilates the Fury/Nano cards.

Well my friend, you are right abaut maxwell beeing faster than fijii, there is no disputing that, and i am not that either.

However HBM is new, there have to be a testproduction of evry new tech, and well i dont think HBM is any diffrent from other techs, at first it will sell with loss, while the production lines devlops, and would you want to sell heeps at a loss, HBM1 is just first step, and i guess that fijii is just used to test out HBM, HBM1 will as far as i know be replaced next year with HBM2.

But only an idiot would produce as many units as possibel, and sell at a loss, or ?

But selling enough to keep the devlopent for the next, maybe is sound. I dont know the answear, but my guess is that Fijii is just a proof of concept.

 

[Nenu]

Thermal footprint matters here as well. Nano isn't just about footprint but also power usage. I've never bought an AMD card but the Nano is actually intriguing for what I think I might use it for. In order to be viable for me it has to outperform the 970 by a pretty significant amount. It needs to perform like a 980. If it does then the buy isn't out of wack for me and makes a whole lot of sense for my next build.

I'm happy for you but its a hell of a premium to pay almost twice the price for very close to the same performance.

 

[Nenu]

Well my friend, you are right abaut maxwell beeing faster than fijii, there is no disputing that, and i am not that either.

However HBM is new, there have to be a testproduction of evry new tech, and well i dont think HBM is any diffrent from other techs, at first it will sell with loss, while the production lines devlops, and would you want to sell heeps at a loss, HBM1 is just first step, and i guess that fijii is just used to test out HBM, HBM1 will as far as i know be replaced next year with HBM2.

But only an idiot would produce as many units as possibel, and sell at a loss, or ?

But selling enough to keep the devlopent for the next, maybe is sound. I dont know the answear, but my guess is that Fijii is just a proof of concept.

The ability to sell cards is nothing to do with HBM.
It hasnt brought a useful performance benefit so doesnt figure in price/performance.
The cost is AMDs concern not ours.

 

[kcthebrewer]

Um the 980Ti at stock is 20% faster than a 980. So you think a card in that power envelope should out perform the top sku ? That's just nonsensical.

I am not the one setting the absurd pricing. The Nano needs to be within 5% of the X in order to make any sense.

 

[kac77]

I'm happy for you but its a hell of a premium to pay almost twice the price for very close to the same performance.

As I said before this has been done for years....just without the fanfare. There are many many examples of companies charging quite a bit for SFF products it's just not a new thing here or anywhere else.

 

[kac77]

I am not the one setting the absurd pricing. The Nano needs to be within 5% of the X in order to make any sense.

Yeah but you are the one making the nonsensical ask of performance. You want a card that runs at 175W or lower (we don't know yet) and is no longer than 750TI to be priced lower than any top sku but perform better. That makes no sense nor is it reasonable.

 

[Snus]

I would just make the case accommodate a Fury X which is just an inch and a half longer.

That case was custom built for the Nano so it's not really a good example, find a consumer case that can't fit a Fury X. Then you might have a point.

But if I have 700 bucks to blow on a video card and needed it for a sff case I'll get a Fury X, all AMD is doing is cannibalizing there own all ready niche market.

True enogh, but f.eks this will not fit a Fury X http://www.lian-li.com/en/dt_portfolio/pc-q21/

And well that custom build there, is impressive *improved airflow, but in many ways it is just a case mod of that one.

 

[Snus]

The ability to sell cards is nothing to do with HBM.
It hasnt brought a useful performance benefit so doesnt figure in price/performance.
The cost is AMDs concern not ours.

True, and i recon thats why they aim for the low volum that SFF is. And its not like someone is holding a gun to ur head forcing u to buy, is it.....

 

[Nenu]

True, and i recon thats why they aim for the low volum that SFF is. And its not like someone is holding a gun to ur head forcing u to buy, is it.....

You dont make much sense.
They are too expensive.
They would "need" to hold a gun to our heads to make us buy it.

True enogh, but f.eks this will not fit a Fury X http://www.lian-li.com/en/dt_portfolio/pc-q21/

And well that custom build there, is impressive *improved airflow, but in many ways it is just a case mod of that one.

Choose a different case.
Its not sensible to go looking for cases that are going to force you to buy Nano.

 

[Snus]

You dont make much sense.
They are too expensive.
They would "need" to hold a gun to our heads to make us buy it.



Choose a different case.
Its not sensible to go looking for cases that are going to force you to buy Nano.

If i choose a diffrent case, why whould i want the nano......if i choose a case that fit a bigger faster card, there is only one reason to choose the Nano, and that would be go for absolutly silence, meening change to a almost passive big cooler, and there it will be easier to cool then Nano, but if some want to go that road, then the 970 SFF is not the competion, the 980 would be the competion then.

You would want a gpu cooler something like this, and when u are in this niche, silence is all.

http://www.overclockers.com/arctic-accelero-s3-passive-graphics-card-cooler-review/

That one can cool up to 200w.

But you see niche equpment like that, it does sell, even if u dont understand

Edit . for buids like that, psu is also passiv, this is the best web site in my oppion for builds like that http://www.silentpcreview.com/fanless-psu-build-guide

Edit,,,, and ofcourse cpu has to be almost passiv to, witch meen 45w cpu

 

[thedocta45]

True enogh, but f.eks this will not fit a Fury X http://www.lian-li.com/en/dt_portfolio/pc-q21/

And well that custom build there, is impressive *improved airflow, but in many ways it is just a case mod of that one.

Of the two pages of mini itx cases there is a single case that supports the Nano, that's the problem.

How many units across all case makers could only accommodate the Nano, and how many of them have 700 bucks to spend on a GPU?

Anything else is just cannibalizing there Fury X sales.

That is an impressive case and system no doubt, but it's not practical.

 

[thedocta45]

If i choose a diffrent case, why whould i want the nano......if i choose a case that fit a bigger faster card, there is only one reason to choose the Nano, and that would be go for absolutly silence, meening change to a almost passive big cooler, and there it will be easier to cool then Nano, but if some want to go that road, then the 970 SFF is not the competion, the 980 would be the competion then.

You would want a gpu cooler something like this, and when u are in this niche, silence is all.

http://www.overclockers.com/arctic-accelero-s3-passive-graphics-card-cooler-review/

That one can cool up to 200w.

But you see niche equpment like that, it does sell, even if u dont understand it.

Edit . for buids like that, psu is also passiv, this is the best web site in my oppion for builds like that http://www.silentpcreview.com/fanless-psu-build-guide

No the Fury X is the competition that's why this product is hard to understand.

Stop further marginalizing this card by saying it's now the best silent gpu, your just proving how poorly planned these products are from AMD.

 

[jwcalla]

Like I mentioned in the other thread if you're doing a SFF build you might as well just wait for the next gen cards, because there will probably be a great variety of ITX cards to choose from and you'll get much better performance and cooler temps than this gen anyway.

AMD has to know this, so who knows what they're doing with this thing. I think losing money is some kind of sport for them.

 

[Nenu]

If i choose a diffrent case, why whould i want the nano......if i choose a case that fit a bigger faster card, there is only one reason to choose the Nano, and that would be go for absolutly silence, meening change to a almost passive big cooler, and there it will be easier to cool then Nano, but if some want to go that road, then the 970 SFF is not the competion, the 980 would be the competion then.

You would want a gpu cooler something like this, and when u are in this niche, silence is all.

http://www.overclockers.com/arctic-accelero-s3-passive-graphics-card-cooler-review/

That one can cool up to 200w.

But you see niche equpment like that, it does sell, even if u dont understand it.

Edit . for buids like that, psu is also passiv, this is the best web site in my oppion for builds like that http://www.silentpcreview.com/fanless-psu-build-guide

Precisely, if you choose a different case you can take your pick from better cards.

You have no idea if the nano is silent.
If you want silence, its already easy to achieve, the Nano wouldnt bring anything new to the table.

Custom coolers can be fitted to any card.
And the Fury X is a direct competitor.

 

[noko]

What a very interesting thread, rather negative initially dealing with the Nano but as time goes on it is starting to look more and more positive. Enthusiast performance in very small packages. Really something not possible in the past. Still SFF to me is more along the line of half-height cards, slim dimensions and not boxes in general. The AMD boxes for Nano to me look more on the big side of SFF solutions.

HardOCP may not be bias, but the games selected leads them to conclusions that well maybe so

I do not see why a larger sampling of games are not used on different reviews. Meaning one review has one 5 game set and the next has a variation of 5 games with over half being different from the first. We have more then five current GPU intensive games in the last year by far. Gameworks closed nature and optimized for one particular hardware and making it harder to optimize for other hardware maybe should be treated carefully and very limited. I have yet to see anything earth shattering with GameWorks and seen better from more non-restrictive development.

Wow! the involvement of Brent and Kyle in this thread is rather Awesome. I feel like they are getting a better feel for wth Nano maybe useful for.

 

[thedocta45]

Like I mentioned in the other thread if you're doing a SFF build you might as well just wait for the next gen cards, because there will probably be a great variety of ITX cards to choose from and you'll get much better performance and cooler temps than this gen anyway.

AMD has to know this, so who knows what they're doing with this thing. I think losing money is some kind of sport for them.

I would be willing to speculate that the chips didn't quite preform how AMD thought.

What they ended up with were expensive cards that had HMB, and couldn't really beat the 980 ti.

 

[Snus]

No the Fury X is the competition that's why this product is hard to understand.

Stop further marginalizing this card by saying it's now the best silent gpu, your just proving how poorly planned these products are from AMD.

I didnt say the Nano is the best for the silent niche, i get it its not for you, but in a silent build, u do have 3 thing to almost cool passiv

Gpu
Cpu
PSU

i i would recon the 980 to be just as easy/hard to cool, and there is a reason sites like Silent PC Review excits, becouse it is an interest in it, is that so hard to phantom ....

Its nothing im making up, it is there, and been there for years and years that littel niche market.

 

[thedocta45]

I didnt say the Nano is the best for the silent niche, i get it its not for you, but in a silent build, u do have 3 thing to almost cool passiv

Gpu
Cpu
PSU

i i would recon the 980 to be just as easy/hard to cool, and there is a reason sites like Silent PC Review excits, becouse it is an interest in it, is that so hard to phantom ....

Its nothing im making up, it is there, and been there for years and years that littel niche market.

So that the whole market? Silent itx cases that can't accommodate a 980.
And one case from lan-li?

Now I have to spend 700 bucks on a card and 100 on a cooler? To use this card?

 

[noko]

I didnt say the Nano is the best for the silent niche, i get it its not for you, but in a silent build, u do have 3 thing to almost cool passiv

Gpu
Cpu
PSU

i i would recon the 980 to be just as easy/hard to cool, and there is a reason sites like Silent PC Review excits, becouse it is an interest in it, is that so hard to phantom ....

Its nothing im making up, it is there, and been there for years and years that littel niche market.

There are other ways to make a silent SFF build but have not seen it too much in the general population. Basically baffle/muffle the noise, sound insulation inside the case and/or encase the case with another barrier to sound (still have to maintain good cooling though). Which then may make that small size not so small anymore. SFF solutions can have some very complex problems needing to be solve. Nano 175w is actually a lot of heat to dissipate, the air volume the fan blows to cool the card will need to be exchange out of the case as a minimum.

 

[Snus]

So that the whole market? Silent itx cases that can't accommodate a 980.
And one case from lan-li?

Now I have to spend 700 bucks on a card and 100 on a cooler? To use this card?

Well i for sure cant see any other reasons to consider the Nano, but for silent and power i think i would go for the 980. Becouse i doubt that the Nano would beat the 980 bye much, that we find out soon.

 

[Snus]

There are other ways to make a silent SFF build but have not seen it too much in the general population. Basically baffle/muffle the noise, sound insulation inside the case and/or encase the case with another barrier to sound (still have to maintain good cooling though). Which then may make that small size not so small anymore. SFF solutions can have some very complex problems needing to be solve. Nano 175w is actually a lot of heat to dissipate, the air volume the fan blows to cool the card will need to be exchange out of the case as a minimum.

Agree with u, 175w is a lot to cool, thats why im looking at special cases that has cooling fins built in, requires modding, sound isolation is a difficult one, becouse u need a material that dosnt keep the heat so good, am a bit rusty, been some years since this was my poisen, gpus just got more and more powerhungry, that baffle/muffle i have to read up.

Hehe costed me some 1000$ the years in triel and error , chasing the smalles, silent GHTPC, as i like to call it.