AMD Radeon Navi GPUs Reportedly Delayed until Q4 2019

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by Megalith, Feb 9, 2019.

  1. Megalith

    Megalith 24-bit/48kHz Staff Member

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    Enthusiasts who were disappointed by AMD’s latest Radeon effort may have to wait until the end of the year before determining whether the company has a better trick up their sleeve: a new rumor originating from French hardware website Cowcotland suggests next-generation Navi products will actually be released in the Fall, contrary to earlier gossip suggesting a mid-2019 landing. TechPowerUp postulates the delay relates to AMD's 7 nm foundry allocation for the year.

    We still don't know what to expect out of Navi. Past rumors have been mixed—there have been reports that Navi will be a mid-range GPU, while AMD has made comments that suggest it could be compete at the high-end. "We believe, we will be very competitive overall and that includes the high-end of the GPU market. Obviously there are new products out there from our competition. We will have our set of new products as well and we will be right there in the mix," AMD CEO Dr. Lisa Su said at the 22nd Annual Credit Suisse Technology, Media, and Telecom Conference.
     
  2. Krenum

    Krenum [H]ardForum Junkie

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    As long as they don't delay Zen 2.....
     
  3. oldmanbal

    oldmanbal [H]ard|Gawd

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    Seems like herein lies the problem. They have All their fab space allocation going to Zen 2, which would under deliver the needed Navi Dies, delaying it another Q. Honestly It's not really going to matter, by the time they do release Nvidia will have released enough to cover all market segments. Really nothing to get excited about unless you're shopping for a < $200 gpu and are really pressed for cash. I've learned to just ignore most AMD gpu speculation as it's always late to the table, underperforms, and doesn't win on heat or power. The AMD of old used to compete with price, but now they just follow Nvidia's precedents for pricing. If vega 2 was a 500 dollar card it would have sold out.
     
  4. maxius

    maxius 2[H]4U

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    Navi was always a late year product the e3 rumor is tied to the next console generation launching this year. looks like world + dog is coming around to the reality that the console refresh is 2020+. As for amd's fab allocation is going to higher margin products like eypc2 / instinct. the instinct bleedover to the consumer space in the form of R7 was just to give amd a sku that competes with the 2080.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2019
  5. Verado

    Verado Limp Gawd

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    They did sell out.
     
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  6. Soulmetzger

    Soulmetzger [H]ard|Gawd

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    I hope once it is released it's not the same old minute late, dollar short situation.
     
  7. ebduncan

    ebduncan [H]ard|Gawd

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    Navi was never planed for mid year. Was always going to be a q3/q4 product stack.

    Zen 2 will be mid year, and Navi will be announced but not launched . Much how they launched the Radeon 7, and announced Zen 2.

    Let's hope they give us some good drivers for Radeon 7 first, and well fixing the overclocking thing.

    It really doesn't help that TSMC has been having some issues as of late. We shall see.
     
  8. Uvaman2

    Uvaman2 2[H]4U

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    But that's what it will be, if you are looking for 'performance crowns'...
    This has been clear from the get go, so if anybody is 'disappointed' they just set their expectations too high for no reason with no basis.

    What I am hoping is... an invisible mGPU-capable architecture... (but by my own account, no basis whatsoever)
    It would be a logical step to take architecture-wise,
    and it would be something to keep deep in-secret until the very end... but still, AMD leaks a lot... (and its been nothing on such thing, so I am dreaming)
    I just don't know if most of their 'leaks' are just semi- leaks, semi-approved.

    I do have hopes for invisible mGPU, if that is even possible.. or maybe something like GPU, then you add compute units chiplets that grow the GPU, as if lego.

    I suspect (hope really) something like this will come out... giant monolithic dies just don't make sense for broke ass AMD (well, less broke now).
    They need something customizable/adaptable, that really costs less to produce, not just cut good parts on expensive chips to meet different market needs.
    (in my BS opinion anyway)
     
  9. DukenukemX

    DukenukemX [H]ardness Supreme

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    I'd rather they delay it than release a mediocre overpriced product.
     
  10. mesyn191

    mesyn191 2[H]4U

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    Supposedly not.

    The most recent other rumors about Navi was that there was some bug that required a respin of either the metal or silicon layers and that it was supposed to have originally been a Q1 product and would now be a late Q2/early Q3 (June-July) product.

    This newer rumor is odd since its essentially placing at least some of the blame on nex-gen consoles (which aren't rumored to be coming until late 2020) and doesn't address at all the previous rumors about a hardware bug.

    Either could be BS, we don't know for sure yet and probably won't until June.

    Navi is still GCN, just a further incremental improvement of it on a new process, and doesn't add much if anything at all feature wise so the drivers will change little if at all.

    There have been no rumors of any major issues with TSMC's 7nm. Reportedly its ramping as expected and none of the cellphone SoC's made using it so far have had any supply or delay issues.

    The only rumored issues they have, and that lends some credence to tight 7nm supply part of the rumor, is that there are tons of OEM's trying to get their stuff made on it and there isn't enough fab space to go around for everyone yet.
     
  11. darrpara

    darrpara Gawd

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  12. _mockingbird

    _mockingbird Gawd

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    The whole re-spinning/re-taping thing was made by FakeTV to justify why Navi was a no-show at CES.

    Of cause, Navi was never planned for CES in the first place.
     
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  13. darrpara

    darrpara Gawd

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    Yeah, could be. I used to work with semiconductor fabs for RF designs and honestly one man's retaping/respin is another man's never intended to be ready. Seen it quite a few times.

    Fab problems, design requires retape/respin = design problems, fab isn't ready.
     
  14. Oldmodder

    Oldmodder Gawd

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    Argh frack me :geek:
     
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  15. Crystoff

    Crystoff [H]Lite

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    Source? Or just ranting / BS? If the latter, why do you think it's needed in this thread?

    It now appears that Navi delay from what the December leaks indicated will be due to several factors, including a needed re-tapeout; wafer contamination at TSMC; and demand from other platforms. AMD can't control any of those things, and the people working hard to predict what AMD will do have even less info.

    Just sayin'. I do realize that fact, reason, and goodwill never have appeal to bad-mouthers.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2019
  16. _mockingbird

    _mockingbird Gawd

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    Nothing indicated that either Navi or Zen 2 was going to be announced at CES aside from FakeTV.
     
  17. Crystoff

    Crystoff [H]Lite

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    Well, that's pretty solid evidence that it was all made up: nothing you happened to see elsewhere had the story. And that's enough for you to wander in and call him a liar.

    Amazing - and sad.
     
  18. MavericK

    MavericK Zero Cool

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    The real question is, how many units actually shipped?
     
  19. _mockingbird

    _mockingbird Gawd

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    Maybe Joe Blow emailed him a spreadsheet and he was dumb enough to believe it.

    After it blowup in his face, he has to keep making excuses to keep it going.
     
  20. _mockingbird

    _mockingbird Gawd

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    #Wait for V̶e̶g̶a̶ Navi
     
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  21. darrpara

    darrpara Gawd

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    #Wait for Arcturus
     
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  22. KATEKATEKATE

    KATEKATEKATE n00b

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    well i guess i might get an RTX 2070 after all. i was really hoping AMD would show Navi at CES and give my 1070 something to feel insecure about but instead we got a weird limited-run showcase gpu, and now any thoughts that Navi may be a summer product are passing. too bad... i like the variety that AMD brings and rooting for the underdog gives me warm fuzzies. but this b*tch wants an upgrade and doesn't want to wait so RTX tax it is ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ gunna play some raytraced Quake 2 lol
     
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  23. Krenum

    Krenum [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Its a great card for 1440p. I have the FE model. it can play anything I throw at it really well. And it runs cool and quiet. I was blown away that I could finally play the Witcher 3 on Ultra with max hairworks at the 75hz cap of my Freesync monitor. I know Ray Tracing really seems like a gimmick now, but I have BFV on the way from that Newegg discount just to see what all the hoopla is about. Read the Hardforum review about the 2070 and Ray Tracing and don't go into it expecting miracles. But for 1440p , from my experiences with RE2, W3 and others , its a pretty solid card for 1440p.

    Anyways, I hope AMD makes a good card out of Navi, I just hope they don't price it like Radeon VII and call it "Competitive". It needs to be 100-150 dollars lower than Nvidias offering.
     
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  24. KATEKATEKATE

    KATEKATEKATE n00b

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    oh, and re: production ssues at TSMC- the contamination issue was at one of their 16/12nm fabs (linky-doo) Their 7nm production is fine, just busy. i agree with those who say that any fab-related delay is due to AMDs allocation running short. (almost) everyone is going in on 7nm and TSMC can only make so many wafers esp. on a new process
     
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  25. NKD

    NKD [H]ardness Supreme

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    Majority of the buyers are below 300. Vega 2 is sold out at 699. So have to disagree with both of your points. if they deliver Navi at 250-300 and it competes with 2070 its a win. There is no way Nvidia can price 2070 close to that price since that die is too big.
     
  26. ebduncan

    ebduncan [H]ard|Gawd

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    Everything I've been told states Navi will NOT be GCN based. Why would they produce a new budget line/mid range cards based on GCN, and then in 2020 release a new uarch for the big verison? Don't make sense. Expect the budget/mid range cards first, then as yields improve, the larger ones later down the road.

    as far as tsmc goes, they have had some issues of late.

    https://www.techspot.com/news/78463...micals-stopping-production-nvidia-huawei.html
    https://www.extremetech.com/mobile/281816-tsmcs-7nm-node-supposedly-running-below-capacity
     
  27. NKD

    NKD [H]ardness Supreme

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    yea I am thinking the same. just 2 weeks ago everyone one was saying its mid year from their sources, almost everyone who went to CES. I am confused how they didn't know they didn't have enough allocation just 2 weeks ago. Since they are in so deep with TSMC that should have been known already. May be AMD is just leaking this info cuz they still have excess inventory of the RX 570-590 series.
     
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  28. cjcox

    cjcox [H]ard|Gawd

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    Dear AMD, you are idiots. Remember when you announced, "we're working on a quad CPU" and then didn't release one until Intel pretty much cleaned your clock, tick-tock?
     
  29. NKD

    NKD [H]ardness Supreme

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    Your first link has nothing to do with 7nm. Your second link just talks about them not having as many orders in relation to capacity, like its not running at full capactiy because of reduced orders not a shortage of capacity. So that should bode well AMD not bad.
     
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  30. NKD

    NKD [H]ardness Supreme

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    what does this have to do with their GPU side and their CPU side in current state? Can we already stop bitching about old AMD CPUs.
     
  31. _mockingbird

    _mockingbird Gawd

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    If it can compete with Geforce RTX 2070, it wouldn't be $250-$300.

    It would be $400-$450

    ...or knowing AMD, it could be $450-$500

    That is, unless NVIDIA actually drop its prices.

    ____________________________________________________________

    For people who want to spend under $300, there's the Geforce GTX 1660 Ti
     
  32. wyqtor

    wyqtor Limp Gawd

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    This is bad. By then they will compete with the RTX 3000 series, and once again nVidia will emerge victorious on price/performance, even with their usual pricing.
     
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  33. _mockingbird

    _mockingbird Gawd

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    In your dreams.

    AMD probably priced it $50 less than NVIDIA's offering ($100 at most)

    ...or knowing AMD, they might be priced the same as NVIDIA's
     
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  34. KATEKATEKATE

    KATEKATEKATE n00b

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    interesting and surprising info about TSMC not hitting capacity on 7nm... not sure if that's good or not for their customers? on one hand, less competing for wafer allocations- but on the other, less dilution of TSMCs' R&D costs... hmm
     
  35. RobT

    RobT n00b

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    Not sure you can claim something is delayed when there's no official release date.

    The real story here is YouTube commentators speculated Navi would be released mid year and have now changed their minds.
     
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  36. mesyn191

    mesyn191 2[H]4U

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    The wafer contamination only effected TSMC's 16 and 12nm processes. 7nm was unaffected.

    It was also only effecting ~10K wafers and the fab where the problem occurred puts out 100K+ wafers a month.

    So somebody probably got fired but its a blip on radar at best either which way.

    You got some more reading to do there then. Navi is pretty much Polaris on 7nm.

    Because it takes years to do a new clean sheet GPU design and AMD only got started in early/mid-ish 2018 when they hired Wang and the other guy to get it going. LATE 2020 is the earliest for a new clean sheet GPU, more realistically speaking mid-ish 2021 is probably when you'll see it.

    In the mean time they have to have something that can sell on the market and a mid-range focused shrink of GCN is the best they can do for now. Rumored performance of around a 1080 and a cost of $250 should be fine.

    7nm wasn't effect by that, the 12 and 16nm processes were and they aren't going to cause any major issues with supply for either of those processes.

    And your 2nd link isn't even a TSMC process problem. Its saying that TSMC had some customers (Apple, HiSilicon, and Qualcomm) cut orders for parts produced on their 7nm process so they're "only" running at 80-90% of peak production....which would mean TSMC has some spare fab space that AMD or Nvidia could easily use. THAT WOULD BE A GOOD THING FOR AMD HERE!!

    I'm starting to think that you either didn't read either article or you don't understand what you're looking at.
     
  37. mesyn191

    mesyn191 2[H]4U

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    Actually Fudzilla and WCCFT also said Navi was going to be Q1 2019 back in late 2018.

    Them all saying it doesn't make it true of course and they ARE rumor sites but to say only AdoredTV was saying Navi was coming in Q1 2019 is nonsense.
     
  38. _mockingbird

    _mockingbird Gawd

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    ...conveniently, they also cite FakeTV as their source
     
  39. mesyn191

    mesyn191 2[H]4U

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    Sometimes. Sometimes they would cite other sources like Chiphell or their own "industry sources" too.

    EDIT: yup now look for the others. \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  40. _mockingbird

    _mockingbird Gawd

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    WCCFTech:

    "AMD is allegedly readying three brand new graphics cards based on its upcoming 7nm Navi graphics architecture, and if this leak courtesy of AdoredTV... [blah blah blah] AMD’s next generation Navi family will initially be comprised of three members, which the company is planning to announced at CES next month. [blah blah blah]"
     
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