AMD pushed to the corner by TSMC capacity crunch, ponders tapping Samsung's foundries

TrailRunner

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Imagine what could happen if AMD had their own fans...
Global Foundries was once AMD’s fabrication business, it was spun off 12 years ago to give AMD a cash boost and because fabrication is super hard and AMD wanted to concentrate on processor design. Given how difficult GF has found it to advance their process, and how Intel’s reliance on their own fabs has crippled their advancement for going on an astonishing half decade at this point... seems AMD made a prudent decision in going fabless.
 

kirbyrj

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Global Foundries was once AMD’s fabrication business, it was spun off 12 years ago to give AMD a cash boost and because fabrication is super hard and AMD wanted to concentrate on processor design. Given how difficult GF has found it to advance their process, and how Intel’s reliance on their own fabs has crippled their advancement for going on an astonishing half decade at this point... seems AMD made a prudent decision in going fabless.

It's only prudent when it works out for them.

Given that everyone is after TSMC's new processes (Apple, Nvidia, Intel), do you think this situation is going to get better or worse for AMD going forward?
 

sc5mu93

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videocardz has AMD saying they are somehow going to have "more" reference cards for 6800/6900 series.
i just wonder - like maybe one or two "more"? technically - that is more. Continuing production might be "more" as well. As long as they don't actually discontinue them, will be more.

but will they even come CLOSE to matching demand? probably no where near...
https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-pro...ce-cards-to-be-available-in-the-first-quarter
 

OrangeKhrush

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Those with the deepest pockets get the most wafers...
technically that is illegal when you sign wafer agreements and you don't meet supply that is reneging and favouring Intel who have in house capacity is bordering on anti competitive.
 

kirbyrj

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technically that is illegal when you sign wafer agreements and you don't meet supply that is reneging and favouring Intel who have in house capacity is bordering on anti competitive.

The problem is that it sounds like there are already agreements in place for future products. AMD very well might be on the outside looking in.
 

sabrewolf732

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videocardz has AMD saying they are somehow going to have "more" reference cards for 6800/6900 series.
i just wonder - like maybe one or two "more"? technically - that is more. Continuing production might be "more" as well. As long as they don't actually discontinue them, will be more.

but will they even come CLOSE to matching demand? probably no where near...
https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-pro...ce-cards-to-be-available-in-the-first-quarter

I get pings for the 6800 and 6900xt daily, so they're being produced.
 

sc5mu93

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I get pings for the 6800 and 6900xt daily, so they're being produced.
are those the reference boards? AMDs statements have been about reference cards. Ive seen 3rd party boards available, but havent seen reference boards come back into stock.
 

sabrewolf732

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are those the reference boards? AMDs statements have been about reference cards. Ive seen 3rd party boards available, but havent seen reference boards come back into stock.

Ah yes reference seems to be way less often, but I got my ref 6900xt (powercolor rebrand) mid january
 

Lakados

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are those the reference boards? AMDs statements have been about reference cards. Ive seen 3rd party boards available, but havent seen reference boards come back into stock.
The reference boards were supposed to be a limited edition part they were never going to do a mass release of them just that one initial batch as to not anger their AIB partners. But that seems to have gone out the window and AMD is looking to do a re-release of their reference cards with a non-Chinese partner.
 

emphy

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AMD's lower end product line is still at 12nm and its starting to feel its age. There's no way in hell amd is going to spend 5nm capacity on those with current market conditions as they are, so a product refresh would almost automatically have to end up at samsung.
 
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From what I can tell, there isn't much crossover in the manufacturing of the two set of products.

PC bits seem to be competing with Apple, Xbox, PS5, and a global logistics system that has completely shit the bed.
 

Lakados

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Still waiting for "more" AMD reference boards. Not sure how they are going to launch 6700XT when they can't even produce the others from November.
AMD only does limited runs on the reference boards, they are historically a one time thing as to not anger their board partners.

“AMD has already discontinued its reference Radeon RX 6800 and RX 6900 series graphics cards, according to reports.


French publication Cowcotland claims that Made by AMD (MBA) reference designs of the Radeon RX 6800, RX 6800 XT, and RX 6900 XT will no longer be made.

This suggests that AMD has produced only a limited number of MBA cards, intended for reviewers and initial store inventory, and will rely on on add-in-board (AiB) partners to supply the GPUs going forward.“

https://www.techradar.com/news/amd-...ence-cards-may-have-already-been-discontinued
 

sc5mu93

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AMD only does limited runs on the reference boards, they are historically a one time thing as to not anger their board partners.

“AMD has already discontinued its reference Radeon RX 6800 and RX 6900 series graphics cards, according to reports.


French publication Cowcotland claims that Made by AMD (MBA) reference designs of the Radeon RX 6800, RX 6800 XT, and RX 6900 XT will no longer be made.

This suggests that AMD has produced only a limited number of MBA cards, intended for reviewers and initial store inventory, and will rely on on add-in-board (AiB) partners to supply the GPUs going forward.“

https://www.techradar.com/news/amd-...ence-cards-may-have-already-been-discontinued
yeah - they did that in December, but they announced in FEB 2021 they were going to produce more stock for reference cards. There is also talk that AMD is not happy with AIB boards and pricing, which may explain the announcement of the continued reference board run.
 

vegeta535

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yeah - they did that in December, but they announced in FEB 2021 they were going to produce more stock for reference cards. There is also talk that AMD is not happy with AIB boards and pricing, which may explain the announcement of the continued reference board run.
Idk of AMD even cares. It is just fluff. The AiB pricing on AMD cards is insane no doubt.
 

Axman

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There is also talk that AMD is not happy with AIB boards and pricing, which may explain the announcement of the continued reference board run.
If the RX 6700 rumors are true, they're going to make reference boards with regular chips and use the upper-tier chips for AIB kits. This would also imply that the bulk of their glass is coming off the line at higher-than-expected qualities.

Just not in enough quantities.
 

illli

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Amd is at the mercy of TSMC supply... my question is, wince TSMC is basically at max capacity having agreements with other companies etc, how exactly can AMD gain more market share? If AMD is only granted a portion of capacity, then they can't make more chips to supply demand. I think the demand is pretty high, but since AMD can't make more than what they are making now, it seems to me that they'll be stuck at this market % for a very long time
 

DooKey

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Amd is at the mercy of TSMC supply... my question is, wince TSMC is basically at max capacity having agreements with other companies etc, how exactly can AMD gain more market share? If AMD is only granted a portion of capacity, then they can't make more chips to supply demand. I think the demand is pretty high, but since AMD can't make more than what they are making now, it seems to me that they'll be stuck at this market % for a very long time
Fab restrictions hurt everyone. He who gets in his order for the most wafers first is the winner.
 

HockeyJon

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It's only prudent when it works out for them.

Given that everyone is after TSMC's new processes (Apple, Nvidia, Intel), do you think this situation is going to get better or worse for AMD going forward?

It did work out for them. They didn't go bankrupt.

The fact that Intel is after TSMC's process despite being one of the longest standing manufacturers of semiconductors in the industry should tell everyone something about how hard it is to maintain a competitive edge in silicon fabrication. If Intel couldn't do it with their massive size and revenue streams, there is no way AMD had a chance had they not sold their fabs.
 

vegeta535

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Amd is at the mercy of TSMC supply... my question is, wince TSMC is basically at max capacity having agreements with other companies etc, how exactly can AMD gain more market share? If AMD is only granted a portion of capacity, then they can't make more chips to supply demand. I think the demand is pretty high, but since AMD can't make more than what they are making now, it seems to me that they'll be stuck at this market % for a very long time
Don't put all their eggs in one basket. They just released too many products in a short period of time.
 

Mega6

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Idk of AMD even cares. It is just fluff. The AiB pricing on AMD cards is insane no doubt.
Stop crying about AMD like a little child. It's the same with Nvidia except AMD didn't sell a shitload of card to miners first. ALL cards from BOTh vendors are easy to get if you want to pay exorbinate prices. At least AMD is attempting to fix things by direct sales. I've seen 5800 CPUs there frequently at MSRP. More than Nvidia is doing to say the least. So who cares less? Apparently Nvidia is the vendor that doesn't give a shit.
 

kirbyrj

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It did work out for them. They didn't go bankrupt.

The fact that Intel is after TSMC's process despite being one of the longest standing manufacturers of semiconductors in the industry should tell everyone something about how hard it is to maintain a competitive edge in silicon fabrication. If Intel couldn't do it with their massive size and revenue streams, there is no way AMD had a chance had they not sold their fabs.

It wasn't a value proposition of AMD selling their fabs or not.

My point was that they are now subject to the availability and pricing of someone other than themselves.
 

vegeta535

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Stop crying about AMD like a little child. It's the same with Nvidia except AMD didn't sell a shitload of card to miners first. ALL cards from BOTh vendors are easy to get if you want to pay exorbinate prices. At least AMD is attempting to fix things by direct sales. I've seen 5800 CPUs there frequently at MSRP. More than Nvidia is doing to say the least. So who cares less? Apparently Nvidia is the vendor that doesn't give a shit.
Woah woah woah. Who the one crying here?
 

Lakados

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Stop crying about AMD like a little child. It's the same with Nvidia except AMD didn't sell a shitload of card to miners first. ALL cards from BOTh vendors are easy to get if you want to pay exorbinate prices. At least AMD is attempting to fix things by direct sales. I've seen 5800 CPUs there frequently at MSRP. More than Nvidia is doing to say the least. So who cares less? Apparently Nvidia is the vendor that doesn't give a shit.
CDW is able to get me all the NVidia cards I need at below MSRP, we don't use AMD because of their lack of CUDA but getting the 3000 series cards for the school labs has been pretty easy. Just wish accounting would let me tag an extra one or two on there for myself, but that's a taxable benefit and they hate dealing with that paperwork.
 

Lakados

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It wasn't a value proposition of AMD selling their fabs or not.

My point was that they are now subject to the availability and pricing of someone other than themselves.
I can understand the sentiment for wanting AMD to have their own fabs again but their reality is they are too small to justify the expense. To match the output they are getting from TSMC they would need to start building a pair of fabs (~25B each) that are functionally equivalent to TSMC's 3nm process, as it would probably take at least 5 years to get the facilities up and running. The R&D costs on going from fabless to a top tier in that timeframe would be staggering if at all even possible. TSMC currently spends just under $4B every year on R&D, now I don't know how much AMD currently spends on having its chips made by TSMC, but I really don't think that the savings of doing it all in-house would even come close to covering that spread. The good news here is TSMC is gradually growing, they aren't at Intel output levels yet but they are steadily improving, so every year that goes on they add more fabs and that means larger output. So if AMD can continue releasing good architectures they will gradually gain share in their chosen markets, but AMD is currently all over the map and this may actually come to hurt them as they are not providing product to any of those markets in the desired quantity which is frustrating everybody involved.
 

Mega6

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CDW is able to get me all the NVidia cards I need at below MSRP, we don't use AMD because of their lack of CUDA but getting the 3000 series cards for the school labs has been pretty easy. Just wish accounting would let me tag an extra one or two on there for myself, but that's a taxable benefit and they hate dealing with that paperwork.
CDW is an exception and when the R9290's came out I got 12 at MSRP or below there. If you recall at launch, 290s where a bit scarce but not like now of course.
 

Lakados

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CDW is an exception and when the R9290's came out I got 12 at MSRP or below there. If you recall at launch, 290s where a bit scarce but not like now of course.
Yeah, bulk orders CDW is a beast, and they haven't let me down yet on parts, and accounting likes their billing and reporting so makes life easy all around.
 
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I can understand the sentiment for wanting AMD to have their own fabs again but their reality is they are too small to justify the expense. To match the output they are getting from TSMC they would need to start building a pair of fabs (~25B each) that are functionally equivalent to TSMC's 3nm process, as it would probably take at least 5 years to get the facilities up and running. The R&D costs on going from fabless to a top tier in that timeframe would be staggering if at all even possible. TSMC currently spends just under $4B every year on R&D, now I don't know how much AMD currently spends on having its chips made by TSMC, but I really don't think that the savings of doing it all in-house would even come close to covering that spread. The good news here is TSMC is gradually growing, they aren't at Intel output levels yet but they are steadily improving, so every year that goes on they add more fabs and that means larger output. So if AMD can continue releasing good architectures they will gradually gain share in their chosen markets, but AMD is currently all over the map and this may actually come to hurt them as they are not providing product to any of those markets in the desired quantity which is frustrating everybody involved.
Every time I read about AMD getting their own fabs I think back to one of my favorite tech writers and his thoughts:

https://www.overclockers.com/amd-spinning-off-or-being-spun/
 

LBJM

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technically that is illegal when you sign wafer agreements and you don't meet supply that is reneging and favouring Intel who have in house capacity is bordering on anti competitive.
Maybe AMD's order is small to begin with. The agreement tells them what AMD purchased and does not guarantee expansion unless there is space.
That would put AMD at the end of that list even after the past 2 years.
Money talks and of AMD wants preferential treatment that have to pony up the big bucks. AMD has to stop being cheap when it comes to their business dealings. Look at what Nvidia has been able to do without an x86 license and compare it with what AMD has done. AMD is still under 10 billion dollars a year while Nvidia makes so much more. What's the difference? Bad management. Don't believe me? Look of the difference between Kmart and walmart.
 

Lakados

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Maybe AMD's order is small to begin with. The agreement tells them what AMD purchased and does not guarantee expansion unless there is space.

Money talks and of AMD wants preferential treatment that have to pony up the big bucks. AMD has to stop being cheap when it comes to their business dealings. Look at what Nvidia has been able to do without an x86 license and compare it with what AMD has done. AMD is still under 10 billion dollars a year while Nvidia makes so much more. What's the difference? Bad management. Don't believe me? Look of the difference between Kmart and walmart.
TSMC signs for % of output not a set quantity because there are too many variables to guarantee a set number.

NVIdia may get crapped on for all their proprietary tech, but that stuff pays bills.
 
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