AMD Presents New Horizon

He was the lead designer and assembled the team for Zen.. dont be that dense man.

Its not me trying to credit it all on 1 person. Whatever it ends as a success or not have nothing to do with Keller.

So now he is the chief architect, lead designer. What else? :)
 
Let's review your question exactly as you put it.

That's so damn general you could drive a bus through it.



And I'm just going to tell you that you are trying to be facetious but don't know how to do it correctly, or were you being dishonest when you knew an answer? Essentially you are being too cute by half and hoping no one realizes it. What you are attempting to argue is that IPC is a strictly defined definition to mean only one thing and one thing only (max throughput and in your case any instruction type). This is not the case from a programmatic point of view, or real world workloads (this right here is why we test with them to begin with).



Sure in a perfect world ( I seem to remember it being 4 though). If you were correct with your assertion with regards to software then no matter what compiler tuning was given upon compile we would always get the same result. We don't not even close. You are attempting to conflate IPC from max throughput of an architecture, and then go on to claim that it can be universally applied to every workload without taking into account, branch mispredicts, pipeline stalls, latency, bitness, or cache size. Sure it's 8 instructions per cycle but it isn't with shitty code, or code meant for another architecture. This is just not going to fly with anyone. I mean it's kind of cute, but demonstrably ignorant. The whole point of providing you with that link is to show that actual software that people use can affect any architecture's capability to achieve max throughput, especially when it came to BD.


No one believes that except you...like literally. Any chip without software is a paper weight. It's not processing a damn thing without it, nor will it understand how to process it without it.


This much is very true. But that's not what you are arguing here. You also fail to realize that shitty code can have implications regardless of what should be possible.


Vague, but I thought you didn't know at all? ;) Whoops. Ulterior motive alert!


Ignorance is bliss as they say. However, you might want to read some in depth analysis of any CPU architecture because all of it reviews max throughput against all of the different scenarios I listed above. It would do you some good that way when you figure you are going to be too cute by half with anyone maybe just maybe you will think twice.


No ... sorry. What I was doing, as a systems engineer, was pointing out that we're so mired in benchmarks that we forget about true hardware specs.

You don't know that, because you don't know much. Bad code is the fault of the programmer or the associated libraries. Not the chip. It's not the chip's fault if a compiler can't optimize for it.

That's a totally separate issue there.

I'm an engineer- I don't have ulterior motives.
 
SWEClockers images from the event show AMD running 2.77...

I had 2.77 loaded up and it's what I ran the first time. After work, I loaded 2.78a and got identical times. I don't think it's that big of an issue, they just wanted to point people to the most current build would be my guess.
 
Its not me trying to credit it all on 1 person. Whatever it ends as a success or not have nothing to do with Keller.

So now he is the chief architect, lead designer. What else? :)

Your the only one not trying to credit someone. Someone has to be a lead on the project and that is what Keller was, he assembled the team thus everyone on it had a hand in it's design. It's like a football team, the whole team is important but without a good Quarterback you wont have a team that will succeed. Keller gets the right people on the right tasks and he is in high demand due to this fact, what he works on has always done well and thus why companies headhunt him. Tho I am sure you will continue to be obtuse, but that is why people on here just tune you out.
 
That is what Jim Keller does, takes on a big new project and then he leaves when it's done or his part of the chip is done. Nothing new about that. Also certain people on this forum will always spin things for AMD in a negative light. For some of us that have been around for awhile it's like a big broken record on this forum when it comes to AMD, tho it will be nice to see them being at a competitive level with Intel again. If they surpass Intel again like they did with the Athlon, then expect even more hate, unlikely with Zen but possible with Zen+.


Err ya know Zen + is an iteration that comes with 10 or 7nm right? Do you know when that is for AMD, it isn't coming for another 2 tor 4 years.

Look even if Zen gets up to Boardwell in terms of performance, with all the changes Intel has done, and which AMD is now privy to because they see the chip in working order, you think they couldn't have done it without Keller? I think they could have, yeah having a strong lead helps speed up design, but that doesn't mean the design won't be there without him. We have journalists than knew what the hell went wrong with BD, everything from using automated systems to the FP unit to the branch predictions. AMD's engineers knew these problems well before BD was released, but their hands were tied. What Keller did was untie those hands because someone in management knew the old management F'ed up.

A good lead is not someone that micromanages and does someone else's job, a good manager makes the team do the work the fastest and best way possible, that is what Keller is good at, not at doing the low level engineering stuff. Design isn't his forte, he wasn't the main designer for K7 or K8 I think he came on to that team 1 year or less before the release of K8?

There were many problems with BD that came from Management direction and not AMD's engineering capabilities. This forced many of AMD's more expereienced engineers to leave. This is why they brought Keller back because at that point AMD's engineers had no confidence in AMD's management, and AMD's management needed someone that the engineers would follow.

Also they needed a lead that understood ARM technologies, something AMD doesn't have experience with, and Keller does have, so what happened to their ARM side of things? Dead in the water. If Keller was a great designer, you think the ARM CPU would be there right?
 
Last edited:
No ... sorry. What I was doing, as a systems engineer, was pointing out that we're so mired in benchmarks that we forget about true hardware specs.

You don't know that, because you don't know much. Bad code is the fault of the programmer or the associated libraries. Not the chip. It's not the chip's fault if a compiler can't optimize for it.

That's a totally separate issue there.

Oh so you don't have a technical response? OK I guess it's good to know what you believe I guess.

I'm an engineer- I don't have ulterior motives.

So you also believe that your occupation prevents one from having ulterior motives. Hmm. It doesn't appear that you know yourself at all.
 
While better than last, AMD really need to find a person that can do great presentations. Lisa Su will never be one that does.

JHH or Panos Panay level is something they need.

Panos Panay comes across to me as genuinely passionate about what he's doing.
 
Err ya know Zen + is an iteration that comes with 10 or 7nm right? Do you know when that is for AMD, it isn't coming for another 2 tor 4 years.

Look even if Zen gets up to Boardwell in terms of performance, with all the changes Intel has done, and which AMD is now privy to because they see the chip in working order, you think they couldn't have done it without Keller? I think they could have, yeah having a strong lead helps speed up design, but that doesn't mean the design won't be there without him. We have journalists than knew what the hell went wrong with BD, everything from using automated systems to the FP unit to the branch predictions. AMD's engineers knew these problems well before BD was released, but their hands were tied. What Keller did was untie those hands because someone in management knew the old management F'ed up.

A good lead is not someone that micromanages and does someone else's job, a good manager makes the team do the work the fastest and best way possible, that is what Keller is good at, not at doing the low level engineering stuff. Design isn't his forte, he wasn't the main designer for K7 or K8 I think he came on to that team 1 year or less before the release of K8?

There were many problems with BD that came from Management direction and not AMD's engineering capabilities. This forced many of AMD's more expereienced engineers to leave. This is why they brought Keller back because at that point AMD's engineers had no confidence in AMD's management, and AMD's management needed someone that the engineers would follow.

Also they needed a lead that understood ARM technologies, something AMD doesn't have experience with, and Keller does have, so what happened to their ARM side of things? Dead in the water. If Keller was a great designer, you think the ARM CPU would be there right?

I dont believe I said Zen+ was around the corner, only that I think it may beat Intel cpu's when it releases.

Takes years to scrap a design and make a whole new architecture. Intel can merely tweak their designs at this point, but would be unable to completely redesign it at this point. Keller has made a big impact everywhere he goes and no I dont think Zen would have been as good of a chip without him. No doubt previous AMD management made bad choices and I am sure Keller gave them some advice, I also think Lisa Su had a bigger impact on that tho.

Keller was less involved with K7 but was the lead architect in K8 and as usual he left before the launch of the K8. I am glad you know what leadership is tho.

I think the lack of cash flow had more to do with the engineers being let go and the fabs that was costing them a fortune to update. Most people I know that work at AMD really like it there based on my few interactions, I think that is more opinion based then fact based tho.

Less there is something I dont know AMD has the Opteron A series which is arm based, but I will say I dont follow arm very closely.
 
he wasn't the lead of K8 till a year before release. All the problems that BD had and what was changed in Zen (power management withstanding), were know years ago soon after BD was released through engineer interviews. Not only that we saw the problems starting with Phenom. It just got much worse with BD.

AMD had enough cash at hand after the Fab sell off to keep their better engineers, when people just didn't want to stay around because of bad management discussions is totally different than letting people go because of lack of cash.

Its important to keep experienced people that have done it before because they already know what the possible problems that can occur are and best approaches to mitigate those problems and further development along the lines they are planning, without that they will run across many problems which just increase time lines, and of course resources go up at that point.
 
Last edited:
Heh...

I'm just going to tell you up front you have no idea what you are talking about. IPC (or MIPS) are absolute. It was a rhetorical question because people throw around IPC without knowing what it is.

But in cause you are wondering, Bulldozer's integer instructions per clock cycle is 8.

Which means it's MIPS (per core) is 8 * <MHZ Clock>

What software is involved is meaningless. This is a hardware specification which has software *implications*.

"Ricin" on the other hand has 16 instructions per clock cycle. Like the Intel chip used in the AMD demo.

All you had to do was know what you were talking about- no Google needed :)

A given CPU may handle one workload or another better based on its architecture. Prediction rates, cache misses and other variables effect how fast the CPU is where the rubber meets the road.

Other factors also affects the outcome of this render - as in render resolution. AMD should just be very clear on what settings (all of them) used. Such as default but samples 150 etc. It could have been samples 100 and resolution of 1024x768 vice 800x600.

Now by the way, am I the only one here that gets turned on by Su??? ;) I think she did a fairly good job, not perfect but much better then anything before.

I don't know, I might find her attractive if I Googled her net worth. Aside from that, not really. She did do a better job with the presentation this time, but I still found it cringe worthy a couple of times. She's just not the right type of person for a presentation like that. Every CEO in the tech industry thinks they are Steve fucking Jobs or Tony Stark. 99% of them shouldn't be doing presentations on technical products.

So AMD seems to pick the silence mode for now.

That's AMD's MO near a processor launch. At least it has been for the last decade or so.
 
  • Like
Reactions: blkt
like this
Yet he is not in charge. How is Zen his design? Remember you have credited the entire design on him.

K8 wasn't a Keller design either.

If you want to play it as titles, you have to credit the CTO instead.


Being in charge and being the principal architect of a system are not the same thing.

The person in charge is the one who is good with management and administration tasks. You know, managing timelines, keeping tabs on the multiple moving parts of a project etc.

Most tech projects have a non-management expert on whatever is being designed who is responsible for the details of the design, and I think it is very fair to call it their design if it is their brain-child and they came up with the overall ideas for how to make it work. These people are extremely rarely the same person, because those who are usually good with the complex tech part, usually HATE the admin stuff and avoid it like the plague.

Who manages the project is almost irrelevant. Management very rarely adds any real value beyond the point where they just keep track of what everyone is doing and make sure no one needs more resources or slips behind the timeline.

They are two very different responsibilities.
 
Last edited:
The file on AMD's site has been updated and defaults to 150 now.

For shits and grins I went on to download it on my work pile.... I hate this computer.

blender.png
 
  • Like
Reactions: blkt
like this
Its not me trying to credit it all on 1 person. Whatever it ends as a success or not have nothing to do with Keller.

So now he is the chief architect, lead designer. What else? :)
Look, I am not a fan of AMD. I have not been for at least 10 years. But, I do understand trends and history repeating. If you knew the history of AMD you would realize great progress occurred each time Jim Keller was involved. Despite your constant denial, Jim Keller -was- involved in the development of the K7 processor, on a -team-, and he -was- Lead Architect of the K8 microarchitecture. Initial K8 design was canceled, with Fred Weber taking over and running with K7 design revised into a 64-bit core. Again, Jim Keller -was- involved in the development of the HyperTransport specification and x86-64 instruction set (again through -teamwork-, as he was not the only author: Dirk Meyer, Fred Weber, Kevin McGrath and others were involved). Jim Keller -was- hired as Chief Architect to completely restructure their roadmap which led to the design of Zen architecture. To deny his involvement in the formation and development of Zen project would be sheer ignorance.

None of this directly correlates him as to being the sole reason for the final product or their success. You should know as those were not my words. What I did do was assert my belief that AMD is serious this round by pointing out Lisa's statement about Ryzen being the first of many applications of this architecture (which shows their confidence) and the -fact- that Jim was involved in the design of Zen. It is my opinion, but it is based on the very obvious trend that major advancement occurs with Jim's presence. Like it or not, we need AMD to be competitive and this time it is do or die. Do you want to play (or should I say pay) Intel's game of increasing prices and baby steps forward? I am honestly tired of Intel's bullshit and will gladly support a competitor who is truly giving it their best effort (unfettered by management). As Gideon said, AMD needed a Hail Mary pass and they brought in the one person who they can trust to prime the project (and roadmap), get the right people in the right places, ensure total freedom and gear everyone in the right mindset to deliver on time (teamwork). Could they have done it without Keller? Sure. On time? Hell no.

No one knows the truth about Jim's departure. For all we know, he was presented with a situation where he can do no more work and contract had expired. What we do know is Zen is on schedule. Yes, K12 dropped off the radar but again nobody knows the truth as to why it was delayed, canned or whatever.

You have a serious problem with putting words in people's mouth. At least twice now, you have tried to pin others as saying the entire development process was credited to a one man army when the only person saying this is -you-. Did you work for AMD or something? Do you have some inside beef you wish to share, or is this "incredible degrading" and "directly respect less"?
 
Comments like that is directly respect less to everyone who works on Zen.

I'm not going to make assumptions one way or another. Management taking credit for the success of underlings is nothing new. At the same time, success has followed Jim Keller in a way too suspicious to dismiss out of hand.

That said, stop calling the kettle black. If anyone has made, and is likely to continue to make comments that disrespect the efforts of the Zen team, it's you. It's probably safe to say that many Zen engineers have a deep dislike of you.
 
Last edited:
Look, I am not a fan of AMD. I have not been for at least 10 years. But, I do understand trends and history repeating. If you knew the history of AMD you would realize great progress occurred each time Jim Keller was involved. Despite your constant denial, Jim Keller -was- involved in the development of the K7 processor, on a -team-, and he -was- Lead Architect of the K8 microarchitecture. Initial K8 design was canceled, with Fred Weber taking over and running with K7 design revised into a 64-bit core. Again, Jim Keller -was- involved in the development of the HyperTransport specification and x86-64 instruction set (again through -teamwork-, as he was not the only author: Dirk Meyer, Fred Weber, Kevin McGrath and others were involved). Jim Keller -was- hired as Chief Architect to completely restructure their roadmap which led to the design of Zen architecture. To deny his involvement in the formation and development of Zen project would be sheer ignorance.

None of this directly correlates him as to being the sole reason for the final product or their success. You should know as those were not my words. What I did do was assert my belief that AMD is serious this round by pointing out Lisa's statement about Ryzen being the first of many applications of this architecture (which shows their confidence) and the -fact- that Jim was involved in the design of Zen. It is my opinion, but it is based on the very obvious trend that major advancement occurs with Jim's presence. Like it or not, we need AMD to be competitive and this time it is do or die. Do you want to play (or should I say pay) Intel's game of increasing prices and baby steps forward? I am honestly tired of Intel's bullshit and will gladly support a competitor who is truly giving it their best effort (unfettered by management). As Gideon said, AMD needed a Hail Mary pass and they brought in the one person who they can trust to prime the project (and roadmap), get the right people in the right places, ensure total freedom and gear everyone in the right mindset to deliver on time (teamwork). Could they have done it without Keller? Sure. On time? Hell no.

No one knows the truth about Jim's departure. For all we know, he was presented with a situation where he can do no more work and contract had expired. What we do know is Zen is on schedule. Yes, K12 dropped off the radar but again nobody knows the truth as to why it was delayed, canned or whatever.

You have a serious problem with putting words in people's mouth. At least twice now, you have tried to pin others as saying the entire development process was credited to a one man army when the only person saying this is -you-. Did you work for AMD or something? Do you have some inside beef you wish to share, or is this "incredible degrading" and "directly respect less"?

So true. This is all we are saying when he is involved good things happen. I don't anyone ever said he was the only one or take credit away from everyone. But I will never deny good things come out of a product when Keller is involved. I am not ignorant to reality. But yes he does put words in people's mouth. Only one making it all about Keller is him.
 
  • Like
Reactions: blkt
like this
Dont feed the troll. Let Keller be! Bring the benches. It's no mystery now that every time Shintai comments it usually starts unnecessary shit and derail the thread. I pledge to no longer respond to his comments. It just brings out the non productive side of me. Peace!
 
The file on AMD's site has been updated and defaults to 150 now.

For shits and grins I went on to download it on my work pile.... I hate this computer.

View attachment 12683


I re-ran it with the new file on my sig system (Hexacore Sandy-E [email protected]) HT enabled for 12 logical threads.

Compared to the last file the time went down from 59.85s to 45.04s.

upload_2016-12-15_15-11-34.png


What was the time in the AMD tests again. 36s according to Kyle right?

I could be wrong, but something still seems fishy to me.


If we were to assume linear core and clock scaling (which never is true, but the only thing I can do for this rudimentary comparison, this would suggest that my system if it had 8 cores at this clock speed would be able to render the file at about 33.78s

I'm a little tired and sleepy after my surgery today, but according to my calculations, since mine is running at 4.8Ghz and their Zen sample is running at 3.4Ghz, this would suggest that Zen would have a ~44% higher effective IPC than Sandy Bridge, and I don't buy this. I'm hoping for Zen to be great, but this is beyond even the highest expectations for the chip.

It also suggests that the Broadwell-E i7-6900K running at 3.2Ghz has about a 53% higher effective IPC than Sandy-Bridge, which we know for sure isn't true from other tests.

So, even with this new files, something is very very wrong.
 
Last edited:
From arguing about benchmark percentages to arguing if the guy who AMD said worked on the chip actually worked on the chip, bravo thread bravo ;)
 
The file on AMD's site has been updated and defaults to 150 now.

For shits and grins I went on to download it on my work pile.... I hate this computer.

View attachment 12683

What computer is that? The number seems insanely slow. For giggles I just did a few more computers... (Snow day so have some time to spend ;-)

Using the updated 150.

All default clocks

amd 3200+ just at 2ghz. (Can only run blender 2.76b since it is xp)
24:03:45

(win 10 pro for the rest, didn't bother seeing what I had running in the background, but at most avast/vnc server and some other light programs)

yoga 13 i7 3537U -6:56.66
NUC i5 4250U -3:53:53
Surface book with I7 6600U - 2:35:28
i920- 2:09:68
(And from before 00:40:39 for the i7-5960x)
 
Last edited:
The blender time in the demo was 35.57 to intel's 36.01. My apologies gents. I have mistaken handbrake for blender in my earlier post. :)
 
Look, I am not a fan of AMD. I have not been for at least 10 years. But, I do understand trends and history repeating. If you knew the history of AMD you would realize great progress occurred each time Jim Keller was involved. Despite your constant denial, Jim Keller -was- involved in the development of the K7 processor, on a -team-, and he -was- Lead Architect of the K8 microarchitecture. Initial K8 design was canceled, with Fred Weber taking over and running with K7 design revised into a 64-bit core. Again, Jim Keller -was- involved in the development of the HyperTransport specification and x86-64 instruction set (again through -teamwork-, as he was not the only author: Dirk Meyer, Fred Weber, Kevin McGrath and others were involved). Jim Keller -was- hired as Chief Architect to completely restructure their roadmap which led to the design of Zen architecture. To deny his involvement in the formation and development of Zen project would be sheer ignorance.

None of this directly correlates him as to being the sole reason for the final product or their success. You should know as those were not my words. What I did do was assert my belief that AMD is serious this round by pointing out Lisa's statement about Ryzen being the first of many applications of this architecture (which shows their confidence) and the -fact- that Jim was involved in the design of Zen. It is my opinion, but it is based on the very obvious trend that major advancement occurs with Jim's presence. Like it or not, we need AMD to be competitive and this time it is do or die. Do you want to play (or should I say pay) Intel's game of increasing prices and baby steps forward? I am honestly tired of Intel's bullshit and will gladly support a competitor who is truly giving it their best effort (unfettered by management). As Gideon said, AMD needed a Hail Mary pass and they brought in the one person who they can trust to prime the project (and roadmap), get the right people in the right places, ensure total freedom and gear everyone in the right mindset to deliver on time (teamwork). Could they have done it without Keller? Sure. On time? Hell no.

No one knows the truth about Jim's departure. For all we know, he was presented with a situation where he can do no more work and contract had expired. What we do know is Zen is on schedule. Yes, K12 dropped off the radar but again nobody knows the truth as to why it was delayed, canned or whatever.

You have a serious problem with putting words in people's mouth. At least twice now, you have tried to pin others as saying the entire development process was credited to a one man army when the only person saying this is -you-. Did you work for AMD or something? Do you have some inside beef you wish to share, or is this "incredible degrading" and "directly respect less"?


Look you need a history lesson, Keller was moved up to lead with K8 1 year before K8 was released. The initial design for K8 was never "scrapped" as you put, it was modified, there was NO time for keller to make a ground work for an entirely new K8. Not only that he was just "part" of the team with K8 prior to his promotion and that is where you see the rest of his work, with hypertransport and x86-64.

If you go through Keller's interviews about Zen and K12, you will see it was on the very road map that you are talking about, but suddenly it just disappeared like it never existed after Keller left. Even in the Q conference calls its never talked about anymore, there was one thing that Lisa stated 2 Q's ago, its not their top priority anymore, which guess up till Keller was around, it was one of the three main selling points for Wall Street in their comeback to profitability presentations. Things like that just don't happen, if something is being planned for, and invested money to create, it costs hundreds of millions of dollars, just aren't delayed or pushed out without any reason. And that reason is they had problems with it, something went horribly wrong to wait return on hundreds of millions of dollars of investment of an undisclosed amount of time.
 
Last edited:
Look you need a history lesson, Keller was moved up to lead with K8 1 year before K8 was released. The initial design for K8 was never "scrapped" as you put, it was modified, there was NO time for keller to make a ground work for an entirely new K8. Not only that he was just "part" of the team with K8 prior to his promotion and that is where you see the rest of his work, with hypertransport and x86-64.
Are you sure about that? Just for reference, this was one of the articles I was looking at. https://people.cs.clemson.edu/~mark/architects.html
 
100% sure about it.

I had this argument with Shintai before, and I went and asked around, and yeah he was right. I was under the impression he was the lead for K8 from its inception, he wasn't.

Wait maybe I got some info mixed up lol

http://advdbg.org/cpu/CIC/announce/1999/k8.annc.html

Well the whole thing is Keller never designed anything for AMD from scratch for a viable product, even hyper transport was done else were, it was implemented by AMD.

Now if you look at any chip that he was "lead" on, Apple comes to mind, they weren't great chips, They were just as good as what else was out there at the time. A bit better here and bit worse there.

And then when you start looking back at what Intel did, with PIII, do you see a name or engineer so prominent as Keller? No, because its a team that did it, the lead is there great, but by NO means could just a good lead make a product like PIII and make the core line up!

Yeah give Keller his credit he made good chips as a lead, but by no means is he AMD's savoir.

AMD's death knell was when Intel took away AMD's ability to use Intel designs prior to Athlon, you know what they did right? They went and bought out Nexgen and had that team create Athlon (which was reverse engineered from PIII and made better). This is where all of those "experienced" engineers came from. AMD did nothing on their own, Zen is their first chip we can actually say that was 100% all AMD. No reverse engineering.

If AMD never bought Nexgen, you would never have seen anything good out of them.

Now back to the point, giving all this credit to Keller, is just not right.
 
Last edited:
100% sure about it.

I had this argument with Shintai before, and I went and asked around, and yeah he was right. I was under the impression he was the lead for K8 from its inception, he wasn't.

Wait maybe I got some info mixed up lol

http://advdbg.org/cpu/CIC/announce/1999/k8.annc.html

Well the whole thing is Keller never designed anything for AMD from scratch for a viable product, even hyper transport was done else were, it was implemented by AMD.

Now if you look at any chip that he was "lead" on, Apple comes to mind, they weren't great chips, They were just as good as what else was out there at the time. A bit better here and bit worse there.

And then when you start looking back at what Intel did, with PIII, do you see a name or engineer so prominent as Keller? No, because its a team that did it, the lead is there great, but by NO means could just a good lead make a product like PIII and make the core line up!

Yeah give Keller his credit he made good chips as a lead, but by no means is he AMD's savoir.

AMD's death knell was when Intel took away AMD's ability to use Intel designs prior to Athlon, you know what they did right? They went and bought out Nexgen and had that team create Athlon (which was reverse engineered from PIII and made better). This is where all of those "experienced" engineers came from. AMD did nothing on their own, Zen is their first chip we can actually say that was 100% all AMD. No reverse engineering.

If AMD never bought Nexgen, you would never have seen anything good out of them.

Now back to the point, giving all this credit to Keller, is just not right.

The Nexgen acquisition is actually what resulted in K6, if I recall, not Athlon which was K7.

K7 was BUILT upon K6, and a lot of that was done with help from technology licensed from Digital previously used on their Alpha line of Server and Workstation CPU's, and later they hired a whole bunch of DEC Alpha engineers who were laid off when Compaq acquired DEC and shut down the Alpha line.

These engineers took the best from K6 and applied some DEC Alpha magic to it, and we had Athlon.

Oddly enough the DEC Alpha technology eventually wound up being sold to Intel. Presumably INtel bought it just to keep it from falling into the hands of anyone else. They - to my knowledge - have done nothing with it since.
 
The Nexgen acquisition is actually what resulted in K6, if I recall, not Athlon which was K7.

K7 was BUILT upon K6, and a lot of that was done with help from technology licensed from Digital previously used on their Alpha line of Server and Workstation CPU's, and later they hired a whole bunch of DEC Alpha engineers who were laid off when Compaq acquired DEC and shut down the Alpha line.

These engineers took the best from K6 and applied some DEC Alpha magic to it, and we had Athlon.

Oddly enough the DEC Alpha technology eventually wound up being sold to Intel. Presumably INtel bought it just to keep it from falling into the hands of anyone else. They - to my knowledge - have done nothing with it since.

That is true, K6 was built by reverse engineering PIII. But it was the same team that made K6 that made Atlon, AMD bought an entire building just for that team to make K7 and left them alone.

Dec Alpha was where hypertransport came from if I'm not mistaken too.
 
I re-ran it with the new file on my sig system (Hexacore Sandy-E [email protected]) HT enabled for 12 logical threads.

Compared to the last file the time went down from 59.85s to 45.04s.

View attachment 12690

What was the time in the AMD tests again. 36s according to Kyle right?

I could be wrong, but something still seems fishy to me.


If we were to assume linear core and clock scaling (which never is true, but the only thing I can do for this rudimentary comparison, this would suggest that my system if it had 8 cores at this clock speed would be able to render the file at about 33.78s

I'm a little tired and sleepy after my surgery today, but according to my calculations, since mine is running at 4.8Ghz and their Zen sample is running at 3.4Ghz, this would suggest that Zen would have a ~44% higher effective IPC than Sandy Bridge, and I don't buy this. I'm hoping for Zen to be great, but this is beyond even the highest expectations for the chip.

It also suggests that the Broadwell-E i7-6900K running at 3.2Ghz has about a 53% higher effective IPC than Sandy-Bridge, which we know for sure isn't true from other tests.

So, even with this new files, something is very very wrong.

So since both at unrealistic I guess it makes the test fair right? Lol. You are taking one bench way too seriously. May be it uses certain extensions that make them faster than they would be under other apps. Who knows. It would be a different case if 6900k was significantly slower compared to zen.
 
That is true, K6 was built by reverse engineering PIII.
The P3 came out 2 years after the K6 and a few months after K6-III. Are you confusing the socket versus the chip? There were some really big differences between K6-III vs P3. First the FPU on the P3 was almost twice as fast the cache also was leagues quicker than what was in the K6-3. Now the branch prediction units on the K6 family were leagues better than what the P3 had and I seem to remember the power usage of K6 to be a lot higher than on P3.
 
Last edited:
I'm interested to see a full benchmark suite run by [H]. Until then it's nice that Kyle could match this one benchmark but I'm still very cynical.
 
Well yes and no looks like

http://www.techspot.com/article/599-amd-rise-and-fall/

http://rocky-microsoft.blogspot.com/2007/07/amd-is-publicly-traded-at-nyse-with.html

http://arstechnica.com/business/201...l-of-amd-how-an-underdog-stuck-it-to-intel/2/


Ok looks like they were all reversed engineered from from P 1

And nexgen chips were PII reverse engineering and they also were ex Intel employees

I remember when my local computer store was selling nexgen cpu/mobos brand new. Those were the days. But I don't think they were PII reverse engineered. They were out before the PII and ran at around 133mhz IIRC.
 
I remember when my local computer store was selling nexgen cpu/mobos brand new. Those were the days. But I don't think they were PII reverse engineered. They were out before the PII and ran at around 133mhz IIRC.

Front end had to have been reverse engineered cause there would be no way to run x86 code. The cores were custom RISC based. The way nexgen chips worked was it took the x86 code and pretty much translated it on the fly to its needs, this was done through the CPU.

586 came out before.

686 which was Athlon 6 came out after.
 
Last edited:
Front end had to have been reverse engineered cause there would be no way to run x86 code. The cores were custom RISC based. The way nexgen chips worked was it took the x86 code and pretty much translated it on the fly to its needs, this was done through the CPU.

586 came out before.

686 which was Athlon 6 came out after.

I didn't say it wasn't reverse engineered. I said it wasn't the PII that it was reversed from. AMD bought Nexgen in 95. Nexgen chip came out several years earlier. PII was released in 97.

Reading is fundamental.
 
Back
Top