AMD Polaris .. supply problems abound

I think the point we are arguing is that Nvidia is purposefully DE-flating the MSRP, essentially making up an imaginary number that sounds good that in no way reflects the actual cost of the card. Then fanboys can use this imaginary MSRP as 'how much value the card has' when really, it is by no means an accurate evaluation.
 
I think the point we are arguing is that Nvidia is purposefully DE-flating the MSRP, essentially making up an imaginary number that sounds good that in no way reflects the actual cost of the card. Then fanboys can use this imaginary MSRP as 'how much value the card has' when really, it is by no means an accurate evaluation.
There are 3 prices: two quoted by Nvidia (base price, Founder's price) and the third is SHELF PRICE aka actual price. Shelf price is the one I've been referencing in recent days.

Whatever Nvidia says about pricing is borderline irrelevant. Just use the Founder price as a starting point.
 
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I think the point we are arguing is that Nvidia is purposefully DE-flating the MSRP, essentially making up an imaginary number that sounds good that in no way reflects the actual cost of the card.
I think the person making up imaginary things is you. What evidence do have that the BOM for a GTX 1080 card is so high that it can't be sold profitably for $600? And before you say something too stupid, please keep in mind that the GTX 1070, which isn't all that different (and uses the same NVidia chip) from the 1080, is selling now for $439. You really think the jump from GDDR5 to GDDR5X is that pricey? Or that an extra 30W of power delivery adds $150 in cost to a board?
 
True but AMD cards are already selling at MSRP, and I bet they will sell bunch still at that price. They will both sell alot but I think this time at 199 and 239 and having more ram people just see that as positive too at times. Also dx12 performance will probably leave the 1060 behind. if I was between the two cards I will probably go after market RX 480 as it will be better in the long run. But I already got a 1080 so I am good.

if I was to advice people I would advice them to go with RX480 after market cards for the long run. These are the people that tend to keep their card for a while and in the long run we will see it get much better results in future titles and they are not far. Battlefield one will be a big one this year and few others. DX12 is already taking off and people can deny it all they want.

Apart from the $199 was a pre-launch using a small batch of 8GB 480s, let me know where a $199 is in stock now, or when it is coming back into stock (it is not anytime soon).
So it is $239 for the 8GB.
But even there it is now tricky to buy a $239 480, possibly because all AIB partners looking to build their own custom cards that will be around $250 and higher.
Radeon RX 400 Series, Desktop Graphics Cards, Video Cards & Video Devices, Components - Newegg.com

Not saying the 1060 is going to be amazingly priced to the rare unicorn basic model at Nvidia MSRP $250, but there will be custom products around the $270 mark for sure that will be looked at in competition to the custom 480 at $250.

Benchmarks will be interesting (definitly think it will swing each way depending upon game but how often will be what is important), and yeah I think the 1060FE is overpriced and will still cause a lot of 1060 OTT custom designs to be close to that mark, but we will see others around $270 mark IMO.
This brings the two manufacturers within 10-15% of each other for this tier.
Cheers
 
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Gotta love the inane attempts to justify. Your place in society and the funds available to you only are relevant to you. So basing your argument on that personal experience really means nothing when looking at the subject matter as a whole. Add to that the price of the card at retail probably has little to do with the manufacturer and more to do with the seller hiking the price for their own profits and you see how skewed your view point is.
 
Apart from the $199 was a pre-launch using a small batch of 8GB 480s, let me know where a $199 is in stock now, or when it is coming back into stock (it is not anytime soon).
So it is $239 for the 8GB.
But even there it is now tricky to buy a $239 480, possibly because all AIB partners looking to build their own custom cards that will be around $250 and higher.
Radeon RX 400 Series, Desktop Graphics Cards, Video Cards & Video Devices, Components - Newegg.com

Not saying the 1060 is going to be amazingly priced to the rare unicorn basic model at Nvidia MSRP $250, but there will be custom products around the $270 mark for sure that will be looked at in competition to the custom 480 at $250.

Benchmarks will be interesting (definitly think it will swing each way depending upon game but how often will be what is important), and yeah I think the 1060FE is overpriced and will still cause a lot of 1060 OTT custom designs to be close to that mark, but we will see others around $270 mark IMO.
This brings the two manufacturers within 10-15% of each other for this tier.
Cheers


I want to see a super decked out 299.99 rx 480 with 1400-1500 Mhz factory overclocks.
 
Nonsense. There's nothing dishonest or insincere about my post. It's 100% correct. Until supply catches up with demand, only an idiot is going to sell a 1070 or 1080 card at any less than what the market will bear, "manufacturer's suggested retail price" not withstanding. Everyone with a clue knows that, and knew that if these cards were hot and supply was tight, getting a card at MSRP was going to be difficult or impossible for a while.

And as Ocellaris noted, the people buying these cards don't give a damn about MSRP anyway - including me. ASUS hiked the price of the ROG Strix 1080 by better than $50 when they saw how strong the demand was, and I am perfectly willing to pay the higher price, because it's worth that much to me to get it sooner, rather than waiting for later. Hell, I'll buy two Titan Ps (his and hers) if they become available before the ROG Strix does, because the extra $600-800 is just not that much money us. (I am a patent lawyer :))

Yeah let's go over your post again:

Hot new products in any industry often sell for well over MSRP, at first. Especially when demand is ferocious and easily outstrips supply.

NVidia cannot control what AIB vendors charge for their custom boards, and as long as the market is hot, the AIB vendors are going to try and make as much profit as they can off of it. They'd be stupid not to. Some of them have substantial R&D costs to recover, and the faster they do so, the better.

You attempted to justify the non-existent MSRP cards by saying "Hot new products in any industry often sell for well over MSRP, at first". I proved this to be factually incorrect by simply pointing to 970, 980, and 980 Ti launches.

In fact, prior to Pascal, EVERY non-factory OC'd reference model from every manufacturer went for MSRP, and MSRP meant MSRP, with none of this Founders Edition nonsense. You're the one being disingenuous by trying to argue it's simply market forces at work, which is deliberately ignoring nVidia's new pricing scheme nonsense.


I think the point we are arguing is that Nvidia is purposefully DE-flating the MSRP, essentially making up an imaginary number that sounds good that in no way reflects the actual cost of the card. Then fanboys can use this imaginary MSRP as 'how much value the card has' when really, it is by no means an accurate evaluation.

EXACTLY.
 
Yeah let's go over your post again:
You attempted to justify the non-existent MSRP cards by saying "Hot new products in any industry often sell for well over MSRP, at first". I proved this to be factually incorrect by simply pointing to 970, 980, and 980 Ti launches.
I remember those launches. Those product's weren't as craved as the GTX 1070 and GTX 1080 are. They were only modest improvements on what had come before, after all. The GTX 10X0 series is a new architecture, a new process, and a whole new level of performance, performance per watt, and performance per $$$. And on top of all that, there's just no competition for NVidia's GTX 1080 and 1070, not even arguably, which was not true for the 970, 980, 980Ti.

So your comparison to those earlier launches is nonsense.
 
Those product's weren't as craved as the GTX 1070 and GTX 1080 are. They were only modest improvements on what had come before

The GTX 980 beat all prior Kepler cards. The GTX 970 nearly equaled the GTX 780 ti. That's very similar to the 1080/1070 over Maxwell.

The GTX 10X0 series is a new architecture, a new process, and a whole new level of performance, performance per watt, and performance per $$$.

All true about the 980/970 at launch as well, except for the new process.

And on top of all that, there's just no competition for NVidia's GTX 1080 and 1070, not even arguably, which was not true for the 970, 980, 980Ti.

What competition did the 970/980 have? The 290x was competing with the 780ti and it would be nearly a year after the 970/980 launch that the 300 series and Fury showed up. The 980ti wasn't part of the launch.

So your comparison to those earlier launches is nonsense.

Your inability to accept being mistaken is nonsense. There's a reason why multiple people are disagreeing with you, and it's not because you're a super genius and we're all incorrect.
 
Seems like the RX480 is also out of stock everywhere, is AMD really having a hard time making these cards? or are they expecting the AIB's to sell the bulk instead?
 
I was so eager to buy a RX 480, but due to no stock I settled in getting a 780 to pull me over until the halo cards come out and drop down in price. 2 months without a working, gameable gpu sucks. Thank god a 9500gt can play The Banner Saga 2.
 
Seems like the RX480 is also out of stock everywhere, is AMD really having a hard time making these cards? or are they expecting the AIB's to sell the bulk instead?

I think we'll know more about the AIB cards on Monday. Review samples are already out and being tested.
 
I'm honestly not surprised that 1070s and 1080s are selling so well despite their price--they're the only next-gen mid/high-end cards out right now, and their only competitors are older SLI/xf cards, 980ti's, and (IMO) overpriced titans.

otoh, the RX 480 is selling pretty well, considering the only advantage it has over the prior generation is better power efficiency and less heat (compared to certain cards), a few new technologies, slightly better performance, and (in some cases) a slightly lower price tag.
 
I think the point we are arguing is that Nvidia is purposefully DE-flating the MSRP, essentially making up an imaginary number that sounds good that in no way reflects the actual cost of the card. Then fanboys can use this imaginary MSRP as 'how much value the card has' when really, it is by no means an accurate evaluation.
No one has to pay MSRP. Let the early adopters (a more mature phrase than fanboy) to eat the initial cost. The patient people will buy below MSRP during sales, open box or used in the forms.
 
Was that the point being argued? The truth is that Nvidia now has the golden ticket to essentially charge whatever it wants for a product, yet its fanboys will still use the 'completely and totally accurate and also imaginary' MSRP for justifying its value.

Ironically its the same with power draw. They refer to reference power draw while using custom cards, and they're interchangeable as the argument goes.
 
There's a reason why multiple people are disagreeing with you, and it's not because you're a super genius and we're all incorrect.
Oh, I think that's exactly why. That, and the fact that there's so many panicky AMD fanbois here who think that posting their nonsense to these forums will somehow help save AMD.
 
I remember those launches. Those product's weren't as craved as the GTX 1070 and GTX 1080 are. They were only modest improvements on what had come before, after all. The GTX 10X0 series is a new architecture, a new process, and a whole new level of performance, performance per watt, and performance per $$$. And on top of all that, there's just no competition for NVidia's GTX 1080 and 1070, not even arguably, which was not true for the 970, 980, 980Ti.

So your comparison to those earlier launches is nonsense.

Proof?

In terms of performance, at 1080p:

1080 is 56% faster than 980
980 was 56% faster than 680
680 was 69% faster than 560 Ti (or 23% faster than 580 if you want to be anal)

So I'm sorry, what was that about "modest improvements"? As for all the other improvements you mentioned, that's basically like every generation since Fermi, and actually even Fermi had better perf/watt than Tesla, so again, nothing special.

As for no competition, remember GK110 aka Titan and 780? Yeah sure nVidia really charged a premium for those, but again there, MSRP meant MSRP, no Founders Edition BS. So I'm sorry but you just put out one bad argument after another.
 
Proof?

In terms of performance, at 1080p:

1080 is 56% faster than 980
980 was 56% faster than 680
Nice try, comparing the 1000-series to the 900-series, but the 900-series to the 600-series, as if the 700-series never existed.
I call shenanigans.
 
Thanks for confirming you have no proof and is just BSing. If you don't understand the concept of x04 chip vs x04 chip and x00 chip vs x00 chip then I can't help you. I made those comparisons for a reason.

But for your benefit since you insist on throwing in the 700 series:

1080 is 56% faster than 980
980 was 52% faster than 770

So yeah, "modest improvements". Plus Maxwell was on the same node as Kepler, so not even a proper/fair comparison against Maxwell vs Pascal to begin with. Maxwell is thus far the first and only time in nVidia's history since they pursued the big die strategy (G80) that they updated the uarch without doing a node shrink.

And why the hell does any of this matter anyway? Stop trying to move the goalposts around. Kepler blew Fermi away and there was no Founders Edition nonsense. You can spin it however you want but Pascal's "MSRP" is nothing more than a ruse to make perf/dollar comparisons more favorable in reviews.
 
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True but AMD cards are already selling at MSRP, and I bet they will sell bunch still at that price. They will both sell alot but I think this time at 199 and 239 and having more ram people just see that as positive too at times. Also dx12 performance will probably leave the 1060 behind. if I was between the two cards I will probably go after market RX 480 as it will be better in the long run. But I already got a 1080 so I am good.

if I was to advice people I would advice them to go with RX480 after market cards for the long run. These are the people that tend to keep their card for a while and in the long run we will see it get much better results in future titles and they are not far. Battlefield one will be a big one this year and few others. DX12 is already taking off and people can deny it all they want.
I was in Fry's Electronics today they had a couple of RX 480 8gb versions one from Diamond Multimedia and one from Asus, their price was $259, so in retail they seem to be selling much higher than MSRP.
 
Interesting that big retailers are price-gouging - then again, Fry's pricematches online prices..
 
I was in Fry's Electronics today they had a couple of RX 480 8gb versions one from Diamond Multimedia and one from Asus, their price was $259, so in retail they seem to be selling much higher than MSRP.

Hell. I didn't know Diamond Multimedia still existed. I remember back in the day running 2 Voodoo 2's in SLI. Bring g back some awesome Lan memories.
 
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Hell. I didn't know Diamond Multimedia still existed. I remember back in the day running 2 Voodoo 2's in SLI. Bring g back some awesome Lan memories.
They make lots of PC tv tuners but that was the first Diamond branded GPU I've seen in ages.
 
They make lots of PC tv tuners but that was the first Diamond branded GPU I've seen in ages.

Diamond Multimedia doesn't exist anymore, at least not the one you remember from the 90s. Diamond Multimedia merged with S3 and then basically stopped building consumer video cards when S3 did. Best Data later bought the Diamond Multimedia name and branding from S3 and built a new company around it.
 
If Reddit has their way, the name will get even worse. Since they are doing replaceable fans, they asked Redditors to suggest a name for it. The favorite suggestion was Modular Integrated Lightweight Fan, or MILF.

XFX RX 480 XXX MILF DD Edition?

I think I would buy one just for the name alone. Would love to see a made up picture of the box. :D
 
If Reddit has their way, the name will get even worse. Since they are doing replaceable fans, they asked Redditors to suggest a name for it. The favorite suggestion was Modular Integrated Lightweight Fan, or MILF.

XFX RX 480 XXX MILF DD Edition?
I'd display that on a shelf
 
I'm honestly not surprised that 1070s and 1080s are selling so well despite their price--they're the only next-gen mid/high-end cards out right now, and their only competitors are older SLI/xf cards, 980ti's, and (IMO) overpriced titans.

otoh, the RX 480 is selling pretty well, considering the only advantage it has over the prior generation is better power efficiency and less heat (compared to certain cards), a few new technologies, slightly better performance, and (in some cases) a slightly lower price tag.

Judging by Steam HW Survey May to June numbers, 1080 appears to sell at almost half the rate of the 970...that is absolutely batshit insane considering the enormous real price tag difference between the two and this much early in the Pascal cycle despite the supply constraint narrative. No recent AMD GPU, regardless of price even comes close to selling as well as the 1080. (other than the obviously inaccurate numbers like the 390 which was zero % share only until June 2016)
 
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I'm curious about the 480 supply
Can someone who works in retail tell us if they have gotten additional supply shipments after the initial launch shipment?
It's always sold out online....
 
I'm curious about the 480 supply
Can someone who works in retail tell us if they have gotten additional supply shipments after the initial launch shipment?
It's always sold out online....

It might be because there was only ever going to be a limited run of the standard edition cards and when the AIB cards launch. Things will really ramp up.
 
Apart from the $199 was a pre-launch using a small batch of 8GB 480s, let me know where a $199 is in stock now, or when it is coming back into stock (it is not anytime soon).
So it is $239 for the 8GB.
But even there it is now tricky to buy a $239 480, possibly because all AIB partners looking to build their own custom cards that will be around $250 and higher.
Radeon RX 400 Series, Desktop Graphics Cards, Video Cards & Video Devices, Components - Newegg.com

Not saying the 1060 is going to be amazingly priced to the rare unicorn basic model at Nvidia MSRP $250, but there will be custom products around the $270 mark for sure that will be looked at in competition to the custom 480 at $250.

Benchmarks will be interesting (definitly think it will swing each way depending upon game but how often will be what is important), and yeah I think the 1060FE is overpriced and will still cause a lot of 1060 OTT custom designs to be close to that mark, but we will see others around $270 mark IMO.
This brings the two manufacturers within 10-15% of each other for this tier.
Cheers

The question is not about stock here question is about msrp price or close to it. 4gb and 8gb are two different msrp, 4gb for 199 and 8gb has been going for 239.99. Point here is they are not being price gauged and have stayed relatively close to their msrp. So what you said about 199 not being available that was for lowest model 8gb was never suppose to be 199. Regardless of the fact that the initial batch was all 8gb and one being sold as 4gb. The main point being msrp not being priced insanely and people being asked to pay 50 premium.
 
I'm curious about the 480 supply
Can someone who works in retail tell us if they have gotten additional supply shipments after the initial launch shipment?
It's always sold out online....

I see them in stock all of the time daily. Just that there is a tracker that will automatically notify you of when they are in stock, so good luck beating the guy with Google Fiber to it. Another hint I've read is that NewEgg puts them in stock on their phone app long before they update their website. The trackers don't even get to see them go into stock as the website only flashes that it was in stock before they are sold out. Good luck spamming refresh on your mobile phone. :)

You would do well to look at smaller websites like Superbiiz also. They have them come in stock in the evening sometimes. They actually have one that is listed at retail MSRP on this page, but it is currently sold out.
 
Yes i think the 199 is the card for me. I'm not sure if an extra 50 is worth 8gb for 1080P. Thoughts?
 
not gonna waste my time spamming refresh just to get a default cooler card. At this point worth it to wait for aib cooler i guess
 
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