AMD Polaris GCN 4.0 Macau China Event

You're right, the [H] bias started coming in on page 2 in the HBM and 4GB section. Starting in on the "980Ti has 6GB, Fury X only has 4GB" early in the first several pages.

Refusing to acknowledge the sprinkling badly coded games--which just happen to almost exclusively be Gameworks+nVidia-sponored games shockingly--that exceed 4GB in VRAM usage, and equating it to he NEED for more than 4GB of VRAM in 1440 or higher gaming again and again.

Almost as if [H] was working from nVidia talking points on VRAM capacity in the Fury X review.

From that Fury X review, we have Witcher 3 Wild Hunt, an nVIdia/Gameworks title where the Fury X and 290X are outperformed:

Revisiting GameWorks: AMD, Nvidia tangle over optimizations to The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt | ExtremeTech

...we have Dying Light, ALSO and nVidia/Gameworks title where, shockingly the Fury X/AMD cards don't perform as well as the 980TI:

Nvdia Gameworks strikes again :: Dying Light General Discussions

...then Far Cry 4:

Far Cry 4 GPU Benchmark – Unplayable on AMD, Ubi's Fault; GTX 980 vs. 290X, 770

There is a clear, demonstrable record of:

1. nVidia/Gameworks titles undermining or sabotaging AMD performance

2. Games that were SUPPOSED to include DX12 features like Sync Compute where AMD outperform nVIdia, coming out as nVidia/Gameworks sponsored titles WITHOUT DX12/Async Compute

3. Games performing well with AMD hardware during Beta, being the sponsored by Gameworks/nVidia upon release the AMD cards perform demonstrable WORSE than in earlier beta testing (DOOM)

and countless other examples of nVidia's nefarious actions to cripple or sabotage AMD even when it also adversely affect nVidia cards to some degree

yet [H] refuse to acknowledge this pattern and adjust their game-testing suite accordingly to show more objectivity.

Rather than acknowledge these things, [H] refuses to deny, deny, deny.
 
SocratesScrotum said:
You're right, the [H] bias started coming in on page 2 in the HBM and 4GB section. Starting in on the "980Ti has 6GB, Fury X only has 4GB" early in the first several pages.

Refusing to acknowledge the sprinkling badly coded games--which just happen to almost exclusively be Gameworks+nVidia-sponored games shockingly--that exceed 4GB in VRAM usage, and equating it to he NEED for more than 4GB of VRAM in 1440 or higher gaming again and again.

Almost as if [H] was working from nVidia talking points on VRAM capacity in the Fury X review.

From that Fury X review, we have Witcher 3 Wild Hunt, an nVIdia/Gameworks title where the Fury X and 290X are outperformed:

Revisiting GameWorks: AMD, Nvidia tangle over optimizations to The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt | ExtremeTech

...we have Dying Light, ALSO and nVidia/Gameworks title where, shockingly the Fury X/AMD cards don't perform as well as the 980TI:

Nvdia Gameworks strikes again :: Dying Light General Discussions

...then Far Cry 4:

Far Cry 4 GPU Benchmark – Unplayable on AMD, Ubi's Fault; GTX 980 vs. 290X, 770

There is a clear, demonstrable record of:

1. nVidia/Gameworks titles undermining or sabotaging AMD performance

2. Games that were SUPPOSED to include DX12 features like Sync Compute where AMD outperform nVIdia, coming out as nVidia/Gameworks sponsored titles WITHOUT DX12/Async Compute

3. Games performing well with AMD hardware during Beta, being the sponsored by Gameworks/nVidia upon release the AMD cards perform demonstrable WORSE than in earlier beta testing (DOOM)

and countless other examples of nVidia's nefarious actions to cripple or sabotage AMD even when it also adversely affect nVidia cards to some degree

yet [H] refuse to acknowledge this pattern and adjust their game-testing suite accordingly to show more objectivity.

Rather than acknowledge these things, [H] refuses to deny, deny, deny.
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I'm gonna let someone else destroy you for this reply, I just want to point out DOOM beta was running at low settings. People who managed to alter settings in the beta (pcgameshardware.de) got same results as release. So you're really just full of shit, old debunked shit at that.

Rofl @ nvidia's nefarious actions
@glofo guy

I assumed packaging was in house, steal a wafer, or half a wafer :p
 
And then there are the countless times in reviews where AMD either outperforms nVidia or performance is roughly equivalent, yet, somehow "gameplay feel" is somehow superior on nVidia according to [H] even in the instances where AMD is outperforming nVidia offerings.

Nah, that couldn't be bias, that is just "reporting the facts" despite there being no data or measurements quantifying this "gameplay feel" advantage, frame-time measurements or otherwise, in most cases.
 
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SocratesScrotum said:
And then there are the countless times in review where AMD either outperforms nVidia or performance is roughly equivalent, yet, somehow "gameplay feel" is somehow superior on nVidia according to [H] even when AMD is outperforming nVidia offerings.

Nah, that couldn't be bias, that is just "reporting the facts" despite there being no data or measurements quantifying this "gameplay feel" advantage.
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Oh, you're talking about the times before FCAT was used to capture frame time when AMD cards had higher FPS but frame pacing was bad? Or some games had stutters?

That actually is reporting the facts, even AMD admitted it and addressed it shortly after.. by the way, welcome to 3 years ago.
 
Thank you, now I have something to work with. I will code your comments in blue, and my responses will be in white.

SocratesScrotum said:
You're right, the [H] bias started coming in on page 2 in the HBM and 4GB section. Starting in on the "980Ti has 6GB, Fury X only has 4GB" early in the first several pages.

Refusing to acknowledge the sprinkling badly coded games--which just happen to almost exclusively be Gameworks+nVidia-sponored games shockingly--that exceed 4GB in VRAM usage, and equating it to he NEED for more than 4GB of VRAM in 1440 or higher gaming again and again.
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Both are facts, 980 Ti has 6GB of VRAM and Fury X has 4GB of VRAM. Before you ask, we also mentioned AMD has dynamic VRAM and what AMD stated to us about needing to program on a per-game basis to use it. No bias detected yet. A game is a game is a game, if it needs more VRAM, it does, we noted the games that did use over 4GB of dedicated VRAM. That is factual data.

1. nVidia/Gameworks titles undermining or sabotaging AMD performance

This is where you and I differ, I don't view games as an "AMD Game" or an "NVIDIA Game." I just view a game as a "GAME", period.

I take games and compare video cards in the game to determine which allows the best game experience and relate that information to the reader. The fact that it is a PC game justifies its use just based on that fact. Of course, there would be no point in using non-GPU challenging games, so we opt to pick games that are GPU intensive, popular, and new. We change our gaming suite as much as possible through the year. The last couple of years have been pretty slow for change, but that is really picking up this year. We have now almost completely changed our gaming suite from just prior to Christmas last year, making big changes in the suite. We will continue to use games, no matter whether they use AMD or NVIDIA technologies.

If we start cherry picking games based on whether they have AMD or NVIDIA technology or not, then we will be committing the very same bias you accuse us of. To keep it fair, we don't categorize games as AMD or NVIDIA games, that's just silly.

BTW, we have proven Witcher 3's features have equal performance difference on AMD and NVIDIA hardware, proving the game is not slanted or biased towards either.

People seem to forget we used Tomb Raider (2013) for the longest time using AMD's TressFX which one could argue favored AMD cards, but no one complained then.

The game developer chooses the features used in games, not us. If they chose to use AMD or NV technology, that is fine, we will evaluate it as it is. It is up to them to deliver the kind of experience they want out of their games.

Any bias you pull away from with regard to our game selection, is your own.

2. Games that were SUPPOSED to include DX12 features like Sync Compute where AMD outperform nVIdia, coming out as nVidia/Gameworks sponsored titles WITHOUT DX12/Async Compute

Not sure what you are meaning here, but we have no control over what game developers chose to do with their games. The only power we have is to take the game once it is released and evaluate and compare video card gameplay experience and tell our readers what works best for each one and how they compare. We can't tell game devs what to do.

3. Games performing well with AMD hardware during Beta, being the sponsored by Gameworks/nVidia upon release the AMD cards perform demonstrable WORSE than in earlier beta testing (DOOM)

and countless other examples of nVidia's nefarious actions to cripple or sabotage AMD even when it also adversely affect nVidia cards to some degree

I'm not sure again what you expect here. We take retail games and evaluate video card performance in them and compare video cards /shrug

yet [H] refuse to acknowledge this pattern and adjust their game-testing suite accordingly to show more objectivity.

Rather than acknowledge these things, [H] refuses to deny, deny, deny

Again, cherry picking games based on who's technology the game developer has chosen to use would be biased. We steer away from that.

Instead, we take new games, gpu-intensive games, popular games, forward looking games, and evaluate the gameplay experience between video cards.

I wish we could include a lot more, but time and resources and all that. You wouldn't believe the amount of work and time that goes into a review. I feel like I'm repeating myself at this point.

Also, all the cards you mentioned that were fast in such and such game over the other, well it is just is, that is the result. Why be biased either way? If you play that game, go for the fastest video card allowing the best experience, doesn't matter if the game uses AMD or NV tech, just get the card that allows you to play the game at the highest in-game settings with smooth performance. Being biased towards one GPU is stupid. If you play the games you listed, then you know what cards work better in them, simply.

I hope I helped answer some of your questions. It has taken a bit of my time, but I want to make sure you are well informed. I am working on a very important secret thing right now, and it is also very exciting :)
 
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Honestly, I don't want to read reviews where there is a "symbiotic" relationship between the reviewer and the reviewed, and would rather have some animosity. Not favoritism but not fanboyism either.

SocratesScrotum said:
Rather than acknowledge these things, [H] refuses to deny, deny, deny.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what this guy is reading or wanting to read, but it seems if he has that big of an issue with all the "bias" he should probably go find a website that caters to his personal opinions instead of continuing to be insulted by reading the [H] articles.

I have been hanging around this site for a short time and I have to say, I like the way the reviews are done and have been done. Brent and Kyle, don't feed the trolls. There will be other video cards to review and "Macau's" to attend.
 
SocratesScrotum said:
And then there are the countless times in reviews where AMD either outperforms nVidia or performance is roughly equivalent, yet, somehow "gameplay feel" is somehow superior on nVidia according to [H] even in the instances where AMD is outperforming nVidia offerings.

Nah, that couldn't be bias, that is just "reporting the facts" despite there being no data or measurements quantifying this "gameplay feel" advantage, frame-time measurements or otherwise.
Click to expand...

It's a wonder why you still read our reviews, that to me is the most shocking bit of information based on your posts.
 
Zion Halcyon said:
That was peak during the "feud" if you will, with Roy over at AMD, who is honestly a bit of a jerk himself.

What you saw as bias could simply have been bleed over from being fed up at what happened, which as I understand it, [H] enjoyed a professional relationship with AMD to a point, and then Roy Taylor basically out of nowhere told them to go fly a kite. I remember Kyle putting up an article detailing a bit of the ugliness, and the Fury and Nano reviews came after, and yes, I did notice some extra snark from the reviewers.

But it could have been less actual bias, and more just human nature.
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Zion Halcyon said:
To drive the point home:

Is Advanced Micro Devices, Inc on The Path to Recovery?
Why Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. Stock Skyrocketed Today -- The Motley Fool
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Because a rising stock price is irrefutable proof that the company is healthy right? Oh wait

Maybe some of the reviews at [H] come across a bit salty at times, but at least I'm not reading a review where somebody is trying to gild a turd just to play nice with the company that supplied it.
 
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The stock price means JACK guys, yes AMD did have "good" news better than previous calls, but they are still not healthy, The reason why the stock price went up, is because this was the first time in years they beat the street lol. When you can't go down much more the only way is up.
 
Brent_Justice said:
It's a wonder why you still read our reviews, that to me is the most shocking bit of information based on your posts.
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You should just throw in Hitman or a GE game in the game suite just to shut the nay sayers up... I'll be happy to donate one to you. Brent, I have known you since SG forums back in the day before you reviewed cards. I trust you.
 
SocratesScrotum said:
Rather than acknowledge these things, [H] refuses to deny, deny, deny.
Click to expand...

Someone is full on triggered!!!!


razor1 said:
The reason why the stock price went up, is because this was the first time in years they beat the street lol.
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That and they removed the Chairman of the Board.

Advanced Micro Devices (AMD) Stock Rises on Board Changes

Definitely not a good sign.

With regard to [H] not being invited, it is just another sign of poor form from AMD's marketing team. Add Roy's odd twitter feed and most enthusiasts should be looking at AMD's marketing and saying WTF???

I am curious what other sites were excluded.
 
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Rvenger said:
You should just throw in Hitman or a GE game in the game suite just to shut the nay sayers up... I'll be happy to donate one to you. Brent, I have known you since SG forums back in the day before you reviewed cards. I trust you.
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It looks and plays and stresses the GPU like a 3 year old game that was not that stressful to begin with, so no go for us there.
 
BTW, I can say with certainty we will be adding Deus Ex Mankind Divided once it is out. Everything I've been reading and watching about that game makes me for sure want to have it in our gaming suite. It's going to be a great game, forward looking in features, and popular I bet. Plus, we used Human Revolution for quite a while when it was out.
 
SixFootDuo said:
Allow me to put things in perspective. AMD is 2nd fiddle to nVidia .... AMD is in the backseat when it comes to Intel CPU's.

This is very unlikely to change going forward. One, they have a fraction of the R&D budget and engineers that the other companies have.

Why would any of you or just anyone in general be excited about a 2nd place company delivering 2nd place performance?

Budge rig? Ok, I get that and yes, AMD with their 2nd place performance and lower cost would be a perfect fit for you.

The bigger picture is this, for most of us, we love building our PC's from the ground up. Why not put the best of the best in your rig and have a world class experience?

Look, AMD is falling further and further behind. So, tell me again, why is AMD important to you?
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psst what amd spends on its r&d budget is meaningless as they have their semi-custom partners pay for the reusable ipblocks development that are used in the semi-custom parts.

2nd fiddle to nv nope they are pretty even. Yes the new 16nm launch is hot and its aimed at the high end. Amd will have a high end part to that fact amd's high end is hmb2; when ample supply of hmb2 is available it will launch... Now lets be clear HMB2>gddr5x as far as memory bandwidth is concerned buy a large margin (jet vs propeller) .

What amd decided to do first is take pitcrain out back with an AA12 auto shotty and empty a long clip into it. P10 does what amd needs it to do put a product out in a price range that will sell and sell well and nv is 6 months from addressing that space in the market.

Finally it looks p10 is going to end up in the console revisions!? so idk grow their total addressable market with a midrange ip that can be used, packaged and sold elsewhere for different markets and rake in cash or make a high end part first that doesn't rake in the cash. hmmm what do i decide more money in bank vs hallow performance crown victory.
 
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Brent_Justice said:
You mean pointing out the facts. It isn't taking pot shots, it's telling the truth, and posting facts, if you don't like the facts, take it up with AMD. What I posted about the 290/X heat throttling and 4GB limitations at 4K are factual based on testing and experience and actual data, and relevant to the review.
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I had hoped I wouldn't need to quote sections of the article and explain it to you but guess I will. So later tonight I guess I will pm you and explain in plain English how, in a professional setting, that article was in poor wording quality.
 
JustReason said:
I had hoped I wouldn't need to quote sections of the article and explain it to you but guess I will. So later tonight I guess I will pm you and explain in plain English how, in a professional setting, that article was in poor wording quality.
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Yeah, that basing your argument on facts and what we actually said is not your strong point. Doing that would require some effort rather than just shooting from the hip from inside your AMD safe space. Most of you fanboys do much better arguing what you think we said rather than what was actually typed out on the screen.
 
JustReason said:
Actually as I have stated, the facts aren't being contested, I see no issue with them. However the word usage throughout to convey that message to the reader was begrudging. I don't require pandering or kid gloves in reviews, the facts are perfectly acceptable. But reading angry text that lashes out at every point made whether on the current facts of the review or rehashing of previous disappointments is really hard to read and feel you are getting rational and whole hearted attempts at a fair and honest review.

But like I said twice early on, that sole review is the only one since as the others have been quite good and professional.
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You've said that more than twice, what exactly is wrong with the wording? Present an excerpt so we can lynch Kyle already. It's ridiculous to me that this thread, about AMD's petty behavior, has turned into some kind of internet trial in which we are to judge the stinginess of Kyle's wording in the Fury X review.

The problem, for AMD, was not the wording. It was the fact that he criticized the low vram, lack of hdmi2 and dvi, price/performance relative to competition etc etc. It's not about words, it's about the Fury X not getting stellar reviews
 
So hitman crashes and freezes The DX12 implementation just makes it faster on AMD. No other improvements.. Ashes of singularity is only a tech demo . Amd drivers suck. Failer rate of AMD is 4 to 1 when compared to Nv.
The only thing that maters on the 1080 release is performance. Im a little confused here. Doom does not bring anything to the table in terms of graphics either but, you are fond of it.
Who are you guys trying to convince here. This just does not look objective. It reeks of Nv fanboy crap. Yet AMD fanboys are treated like a bunch of uninformed goats.
Humor us some more.
Oh, I forgot to mention Async compute that was downplayed as well....:)
By the way im not trolling just stating the facts.
 
JustReason said:
Actually as I have stated, the facts aren't being contested, I see no issue with them. However the word usage throughout to convey that message to the reader was begrudging. I don't require pandering or kid gloves in reviews, the facts are perfectly acceptable. But reading angry text that lashes out at every point made whether on the current facts of the review or rehashing of previous disappointments is really hard to read and feel you are getting rational and whole hearted attempts at a fair and honest review.

But like I said twice early on, that sole review is the only one since as the others have been quite good and professional.
Click to expand...

Any inference of begrudging or angry text or lashing out is of your own creation, none was intended on my behalf. It should be understood that emotion is often hard to guage from text alone, you can't see my face, my body language. So all I can say is, all those things you are inferring are not true.
 
Imhotep said:
So hitman crashes and freezes The DX12 implementation just makes it faster on AMD. No other improvements.. Ashes of singularity is only a tech demo . Amd drivers suck. Failer rate of AMD is 4 to 1 when compared to Nv.
The only thing that maters on the 1080 release is performance. Im a little confused here. Doom does not bring anything to the table in terms of graphics either but, you are fond of it.
Who are you guys trying to convince here. This just does not look objective. It reeks of Nv fanboy crap. Yet AMD fanboys are treated like a bunch of uninformed goats.
Humor us some more.
Oh, I forgot to mention Async compute that was downplayed as well....:)
By the way im not trolling just stating the facts.
Click to expand...

Async compute hasn't played a role in a decent game yet, show me one other game where it is used and provides a performance benefit that allows a better gameplay experience, try to, just try. In the one game that is used to test it, we have included it a lot in reviews, including the 1080 launch, and upcoming reviews, so hardly downplayed.

As for the rest, I'd just be repeating myself. Your feedback is noted.
 
Maybe Brent was just pissed that AMD missed the mark so bad at time of review?

Review was a little harsh = yes in my opinion. But it was certainly truthful and sometimes the hard truth needs to be told.
 
Sorry hear that not one of the HardOCP crew got an invited to this event as it would have nice know what going on with AMD lates up coming GPU
 
DF-1 said:
holy shit. at the end of the day its a fucking VIDEO CARD.

i think people here argue more than they actually fucking use their GPUs.
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I definitely do.
I once went about a month without firing up a single game but I did spend countless hours on this forum and Reddit.
 
TaintedSquirrel said:
I definitely do.
I once went about a month without firing up a single game but I did spend countless hours on this forum and Reddit.
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Same here, games usually fail to pique my interest these days... Too much work to do, arguing with people on forums and reddit is much less of a commitment than playing a game
 
Activate: AMD said:
Because a rising stock price is irrefutable proof that the company is healthy right? Oh wait

Maybe some of the reviews at [H] come across a bit salty at times, but at least I'm not reading a review where somebody is trying to gild a turd just to play nice with the company that supplied it.
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You can go stand in a corner with the other guy since neither of you seem to actively engage in reading comprehension, especially when it gets in your way of trying to label people fanboys who aren't in your attempt to pick a fight and get out your latent aggression.
 
razor1 said:
The stock price means JACK guys, yes AMD did have "good" news better than previous calls, but they are still not healthy, The reason why the stock price went up, is because this was the first time in years they beat the street lol. When you can't go down much more the only way is up.
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It's hardly the be all, end all. But jesus, take a look as what is being said. CONTEXT MOTHERFUCKERS, CONTEXT.

Did I say AMD is doing great because of stock prices? No. Did I say they were awesome? No. Did I respond to some troll who cared more about making a colorful AMD/ AlMost Dead crack than having a sane thought with proof that AMD, while hardly competitive with intel or NVidia at this time, isn't quite dead yet and looks to be recovering based not only on stock prices, but grabbing market share away from NVidia? Yes.

Seriously, any excuse to joust at windmills for some of you people.
 
Zion Halcyon said:
It's hardly the be all, end all. But jesus, take a look as what is being said. CONTEXT MOTHERFUCKERS, CONTEXT.

Did I say AMD is doing great because of stock prices? No. Did I say they were awesome? No. Did I respond to some troll who cared more about making a colorful AMD/ AlMost Dead crack than having a sane thought with proof that AMD, while hardly competitive with intel or NVidia at this time, isn't quite dead yet and looks to be recovering based not only on stock prices, but grabbing market share away from NVidia? Yes.

Seriously, any excuse to joust at windmills for some of you people.
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I'm sorry, but why would anyone joust with a windmill? Is this an established figure of speech ? I've read really weird ones in this thread... fruitloops...windmills...
 
Zion Halcyon said:
It's hardly the be all, end all. But jesus, take a look as what is being said. CONTEXT MOTHERFUCKERS, CONTEXT.

Did I say AMD is doing great because of stock prices? No. Did I say they were awesome? No. Did I respond to some troll who cared more about making a colorful AMD/ AlMost Dead crack than having a sane thought with proof that AMD, while hardly competitive with intel or NVidia at this time, isn't quite dead yet and looks to be recovering based not only on stock prices, but grabbing market share away from NVidia? Yes.

Seriously, any excuse to joust at windmills for some of you people.
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Well it wasn't geared towards you, I was making a general statement to not use stock prices as the end all be all :)

marketshare wise the only place they grabbed it was been notebook low end... Which many notebook marketshare switches so fast it isnt' funny. Desktop yeah a small up swing, but that really isn't enough for an entire quarter, that could be just market equilibrium because AMD has cards out now after the 9 month hiatus.

Within a quarter I have seen 20% swings in notebook discreet marketshare in the past for both nV and AMD up and down. Its just an extremely fickle market, attachment rate is none existent since the GPU is not something most people look at or even think about when buying a notebook.
 
shspvr said:
Sorry hear that not one of the HardOCP crew got an invited to this event as it would have nice know what going on with AMD lates up coming GPU
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I stopped going to events more than a few years ago and try to stay out of the way if I can. I send Brent. I did not want to go to the NVIDIA one here a few weeks ago, but Brent had a personal commitment. I guess the one before that was AMD in Hawai. I did not want to go to that one either, but Chris Hook begged....we brought Brent too. The fact of the matter is that I can get a LOT more work done in my office than I can spending 5 days out on the road and Brent needs a card and a driver, and MAYBE a slide deck and we are good to go.
 
Brent_Justice said:
Any inference of begrudging or angry text or lashing out is of your own creation, none was intended on my behalf. It should be understood that emotion is often hard to guage from text alone, you can't see my face, my body language. So all I can say is, all those things you are inferring are not true.
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To be fair, and I am with you guys on this mostly, but he does have a point, and I won't say its just him.

Really, whether you intended it or not, the tone of the AMD reviews seemed to take a tonal shift since that flap where Kyle outed Roy from AMD. However, I'd say
razor1 said:
Well it wasn't geared towards you, I was making a general statement to not use stock prices as the end all be all :)

marketshare wise the only place they grabbed it was been notebook low end... Which many notebook marketshare switches so fast it isnt' funny. Desktop yeah a small up swing, but that really isn't enough for an entire quarter, that could be just market equilibrium because AMD has cards out now after the 9 month hiatus.

Within a quarter I have seen 20% swings in notebook discreet marketshare in the past for both nV and AMD up and down. Its just an extremely fickle market, attachment rate is none existent since the GPU is not something most people look at or even think about when buying a notebook.
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Ha, fair enough, and I don't disagree.
 
Chebsy said:
You know what, I have always rooted for AMD as the perceived underdog to Nvidia, but if they can't be open and honest about their products, by that I mean vetoing HardOcp because they didn't like some honest journalism in the past, well it damages their credibility to my mind !! Maybe the Polaris product will be a die shrink of the 290x !!
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Like pascal is high clocked maxwell.
 
Interesting to see a four or five billion dollar company act like a spoiled child... I feel like we've been watching AMD slowly unravel since Bulldozer (in regards to their desktop relevancy).

174.gif


Also... It's kind of genius on AMD's part. It sounds like they are going all out on the event and Macau is a HELL of a place to party. Now if [H] gives Polaris an unfavorable review, the fanboys can just claim it's because Brent/Kyle are salty about not getting an invite.
 
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