AMD Polaris GCN 4.0 Macau China Event

Shit like this is why AMD is AlMost Dead. You don't alienate your target audience. Either through blacklistings or lackluster products. They'll only learn this lesson apparently when they're typing up the 'we're going out of business' announcement. Maybe not even then.
 
This is what I think is going to happen, reviewers that were invited will get tid bits about Polaris, they will do a write up, then at computex they will get their samples, then they will do another write up and review, then the cards launch at E3........
 
razor1 said:
This is what I think is going to happen, reviewers that were invited will get tid bits about Polaris, they will do a write up, then at computex they will get their samples, then they will do another write up and review, then the cards launch at E3........
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Timing makes sense-- you're almost certainly correct.
 
I hereby suggest navy seal copypasta be replaced with that blurb sent to Kyle. It's amazing. What a toughguy.

As for [H]'s game selection, no way can you correlate those used being some indication of bias simply because some of them use Gameworks. They're also picked for a reason (I assume): they're a) very popular and b) graphically intensive i.e. good test cases. Heck, I could say [H] is reading my Steam most played list because those same games show up in their reviews -- would that be corollary?
 
if you want more broad range of games tested, maybe you should try talking to kyle/brent and offer to buy them these titles that you would like to see tested. At the very least this could open the discussion for testing more/different titles.
 
staknhalo said:
Shit like this is why AMD is AlMost Dead. You don't alienate your target audience. Either through blacklistings or lackluster products. They'll only learn this lesson apparently when they're typing up the 'we're going out of business' announcement. Maybe not even then.
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Hate to break it to you, but while yes, they do make some bonehead moves, their stock keeps going up and they did gain market share. Inverstors are forecasting a recovery for AMD. So while yes, AMD may eventually be dead to us, they are far from dead.
 
The problem that AMD is facing right now, is Kyle, Brent, [H] Staff say it as it is, and they are blunt about it, no frills, they have no qualms about speaking whats on their mind. Is it a good buy or not. Simple. They don't get into the grey areas like other review sites do. Which by all accounts when someone is looking at a product, its their point of view, its a good thing. As readers we can come up with our own reasoning, but that is up to us. Their job is to tell us what they think about the product, not what they think we want to hear. They don't know whats in their readers mind, or AMD's mind.......
 
Zion Halcyon said:
Hate to break it to you, but while yes, they do make some bonehead moves, their stock keeps going up and they did gain market share. Inverstors are forecasting a recovery for AMD. So while yes, AMD may eventually be dead to us, they are far from dead.
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Are you aware if you take someone off life support, they can start breathing on their own temporarily, before eventually expiring? That's all I see your argument as. The last peak (or one of the last peaks) on the EKG before the eventual flat-lining.
 
The Fury X review is where the anti-AMD slant/bias/call-it-what-you-choose was MOST EVIDENT. In the comments for that review, many of us pointed out the utter lack of objectivity, slant, pot-shots, etc. ONLY then, and in the subsequent AMD reviews have [H] made clear changes/strides in being more objective including the Hairworks On/Off testing in reviews. Those changes in [H] reviews occurred because [H] was called out on it by many of us in the [H] readership.

BUT, as has been noted above, the game-suite [H} uses is almost entirely Gameworks/nVidia sponsored games, so in that respect there is still work to be done by [H] in the objectivity department.
 
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AMD isn't competing at the high-end or enthusiast right now, but that doesn't mean they're dead. We already know they won Apple's business with Polaris, and they'll be in three console refreshes in the next year! While they aren't doing anything sexy for us PC gamers, AMD is far from out.
 
staknhalo said:
Are you aware if you take someone off life support, they can start breathing on their own temporarily, before eventually expiring? That's all I see your argument as. The last peak (or one of the last peaks) on the EKG before the eventual flat-lining.
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And if you figure out how to splice wings on a frog he won't bumb his ass when he hops. The problem with your analogy is it completely ignores the reality. You are making an emotional argument - not a logical one.
 
cptnjarhead said:
Brother, i have a whole new respect for you. Never even thought about the nerd rage you must get. This shit is just stupid, and i mean stupid on a whole who gives a fuck, get a life kind of stupid.
You could use your position, ie, administrative privileges and what not to totally screw with these chicken shit keyboard warriors, but as far as i have seen, your demeanor has been very respectful and professional, but there is a limit.
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But this is deadly SERIOUS gear we're talking here! It's VIDEO CARDS for COMPUTERS FFS!

Oh, wait - it's just video cards for computers? That's evidently enough to make some wingnuts throw a rod. Perspective seems to be lacking amongst fruitloops.
 
SocratesScrotum said:
The Fury X review is where the anti-AMD slant/bias/call-it-what-you-choose was MOST EVIDENT. In the comments for that review, many of us pointed out the utter lack of objectivity, slant, pot-shots, etc. ONLY then, and in the subsequent AMD reviews have [H] made clear changes/strides in being more objective including the Hairworks On/Off testing in reviews. Those changes in [H] review occurred because [H] was called out on it by many of us in the [H] readership.
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That was peak during the "feud" if you will, with Roy over at AMD, who is honestly a bit of a jerk himself.

What you saw as bias could simply have been bleed over from being fed up at what happened, which as I understand it, [H] enjoyed a professional relationship with AMD to a point, and then Roy Taylor basically out of nowhere told them to go fly a kite. I remember Kyle putting up an article detailing a bit of the ugliness, and the Fury and Nano reviews came after, and yes, I did notice some extra snark from the reviewers.

But it could have been less actual bias, and more just human nature.
 
Zion Halcyon said:
And if you figure out how to splice wings on a frog he won't bumb his ass when he hops. The problem with your analogy is it completely ignores the reality. You are making an emotional argument - not a logical one.
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My logic and argument comes from the reality of their product launches over the past years, market share over the past years, stock price over the past years, company behavior over the past years.

Maybe your argument comes from your own emotional beliefs and not logical facts?
 
staknhalo said:
My logic and argument comes from the reality of their product launches over the past years, market share over the past years, stock price over the past years, company behavior over the past years.

Maybe your argument comes from your own emotional beliefs and not logical facts?
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I gave you stock prices and investor forecasts. You give me off the hip rhetoric and flamebait. Who's the logical one and who's the emotional one again?
 
SocratesScrotum said:
The Fury X review is where the anti-AMD slant/bias/call-it-what-you-choose was MOST EVIDENT. In the comments for that review, many of us pointed out the utter lack of objectivity, slant, pot-shots, etc. ONLY then, and in the subsequent AMD reviews have [H] made clear changes/strides in being more objective including the Hairworks On/Off testing in reviews. Those changes in [H] review occurred because [H] was called out on it by many of us in the [H] readership.

BUT, as has been noted above, the game-suit [h} uses is almost entirely Gameworks/nVidia sponsored games, so in that respect there is still work to be done by [H] in the objectivity department.
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I have to disagree, the Fury X got a fair review. Our conclusions and comments were based on experience, data, and relevance. I had no personal beef with a GPU, it's a piece of hardware. I want AMD to succeed, I want competition. I am also going to call it as it is.

The Fury X was a quick stop gap fix until the next generation. It is obvious that 28nm hurt AMD, they were trying to squeeze every last bit from the architecture they could, but their architecture just wasn't as effecient as NVIDIA's at extracting that performance from 28nm. The leap from Fermi to Maxwell was pretty big on 28nm, but the leap from Tahiti, to Hawaii, to Fiji wasn't as big. In fact we got a lot of refreshes around Tahiti and Hawaii. For a GPU that had a newer subset of GCN architecture (Fiji), it sure didn't act like it, and still today doesn't perform as well as we feel it should doing certain things. It has always felt like something is holding it back, and it still does. I have first hand experience, a lot of it, and data, to backup my claims.

None of that is taking a "pot shots", that isn't having a "bias", that isn't having a "slant", it is the definition of having objectivity and calling it like it is.
 
You're believing what you want to believe - argumenting on a hopeful outcome - where as what I have said is based on what has already come to pass and proven to be. So it would seem you are the emotional one, hoping for a happy ending here.
 
Deny the bias all you want, anyone is free to read the Fury X review and compare it to all the AMD reviews that have come after it. The change in "tone" after that Fury X review is plain and clear.
 
SocratesScrotum said:
Deny the bias all you want, anyone is free to read the Fury X review and compare it to all the AMD reviews that have come after it. The change in "tone" after that Fury X review is plain and clear.
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So it's the tone that's upsetting you, and not the perfectly justified criticism of Fiji?
 
SocratesScrotum said:
Deny the bias all you want, anyone is free to read the Fury X review and compare it to all the AMD reviews that have come after it. The change in "tone" after that Fury X review is plain and clear.
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Any change in tone is based off of the factual gameplay experience compared to the competition at the time of evaluation. We told the good, we told the bad. If you don't like the bad, take that up with AMD. We told it like it is, no bias. Instead of just calling us biased, how about looking at the data and try to understand how we came to the conclusions we did.

I wrote the review, and personally I had no specific tone change that I recall when writing it. I was very excited evaluating the Fury X, it was an architecture and card that intrigued me greatly. I was in a great mood while evaluating it. New hardware and architectures like that get me very excited, and I always start from a positive attitude, I just can't wait to see how much better the gameplay experience is going to be.

Something a lot of people don't know (old timers will, real old timers) is that I started back in the 90's as an ATI fan site GPU reviewer. I was part of a couple of ATI fan sites for ATI GPUs and met my first ATI contact in the driver team from that, before I started working at [H]. I am definitely not against AMD/ATI. I want it to succeed.
 
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Bunk, brother man. The bias/slant started from nearly the opening paragraphs, well before the performance data even came in the review.

Go back an re-read it your damn self. It's there, it not a figment of anyone's imagination. It was clear enough that many of us called [H] out on it, and it had nothing to do with performance results, no matter how hard you try to pain it that way.
 
SocratesScrotum said:
Bunk, brother man. The bias/slant started from nearly the opening paragraphs, well before the performance data even came in the review.

Go back an re-read it your damn self. It's there, it not a figment of anyone's imagination. It was clear enough that many of us called [H] out on it, and it had nothing to do with performance results, no matter how hard you try to pain it that way.
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The first two paragraphs from the review

On June 16th, 2015 AMD announced via a live webcast its next series of video cards , the Radeon 300 series, and the next generation in the evolution of its GCN (Graphics Core Next) architecture. If there was any one GPU that gaming enthusiasts were looking forward to it was the Fiji announcement and performance evaluations to come. Fiji culminates all that AMD has to offer with this next evolution of performance on the GCN architecture.

Today, we can finally reveal the true real-world performance of the AMD Radeon R9 Fury X in today's games. The AMD Radeon Fury X is at the very top-end of single-GPU performance for AMD, with a price of $649. This is AMD's new flagship video card that will take us through 2015 gaming on the PC.
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Nope, don't see anything biased there.

Give me a direct quote of what you think is biased, and I will take the time to respond.

Also, the name isn't Bunk.
 
staknhalo said:
You're believing what you want to believe - argumenting on a hopeful outcome - where as what I have said is based on what has already come to pass and proven to be. So it would seem you are the emotional one, hoping for a happy ending here.
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I'm merely repeating what paid professionals are saying. You seem to be the one living in a fantasy land and hearing things where things were not said.
 
SocratesScrotum said:
The Fury X review is where the anti-AMD slant/bias/call-it-what-you-choose was MOST EVIDENT. In the comments for that review, many of us pointed out the utter lack of objectivity, slant, pot-shots, etc. ONLY then, and in the subsequent AMD reviews have [H] made clear changes/strides in being more objective including the Hairworks On/Off testing in reviews. Those changes in [H] reviews occurred because [H] was called out on it by many of us in the [H] readership.

BUT, as has been noted above, the game-suite [H} uses is almost entirely Gameworks/nVidia sponsored games, so in that respect there is still work to be done by [H] in the objectivity department.
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MOST EVIDENT to rabid AMD fanboys that did not get spoonfed exactly what they wanted to hear. Here is exactly what we said, please feel free to point out exactly what is biased about the conclusion.

"Limited VRAM for a flagship $649 video card, sub-par gaming performance for the price, and limited display support options with no HDMI 2.0 and no DVI port. To be honest, we aren't entirely sure who the AMD Radeon R9 Fury X is really built for? The AMD Radeon Fury X is a confusing product, like a technology demo not fully realized, a showcase for HBM only but with no real substance. The AMD Radeon Fury X looks to be a great marketing showcase, but its prowess starts waning when you consider its value to gamers and hardware enthusiasts."


SocratesScrotum said:
Deny the bias all you want, anyone is free to read the Fury X review and compare it to all the AMD reviews that have come after it. The change in "tone" after that Fury X review is plain and clear.
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Did we trigger you while you were in your safe space?
 
Zion Halcyon said:
I'm merely repeating what paid professionals are saying. You seem to be the one living in a fantasy land and hearing things where things were not said.
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You're ignoring everything that has come to pass, proven to be, and is indisputable fact. You're basing your argument on hopeful 'maybes'. AMD could only recover (which is only a possibility, it's not a fact they will) if and only if they were currently circling the drain in the first place. But let's ignore that, right? Continue beating that team-red drum, drowning out the sound of all the facts around you.
 
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Kyle, don't worry about not being able to be in Macau. I am pretty sure that we will see Ellesmere cards this quarter in stores.
 
staknhalo said:
You're ignoring everything that has come to pass, proven to be, and is fact. You're basing your argument on hopeful 'maybes'.
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If we did it your way, then no way the AMD of the 90's ever goes toe to toe with intel. No way Boston or the White Sox win the world series in the past 20 years, etc.

The past can be a factor, but it is not the be all, end all, especially when those in charge are focusing on a change of direction.

You talk about dealing with facts, and what I'm ignoring - yet here you are, ignoring the ditching of the bulldozer architecture, ignoring the change of leadership a bit back with AMD, ignoring the positive direction the Radeon Technology Group has been going in since they were christened, ignoring that they have been up front since the beginning that they were not initially going after the top end, but the low to mid end of graphics card users to deliver something with a high value to cost that consumes low power, etc.

On top of that, you're ignoring that they are gaining market share and that their stock has more than doubled. All signs of a company that finally has found decent leadership and has them going in a better direction.

But that's not even the worst of it - you, like a total NVidia fanboi, also ignored the most important thing of all - that I NEVER SAID AMD WOULD COMPLETELY RECOVER AND GO ON TO THIS SHANGRALA YOU ACCUSE ME OF SAYING.

All I said was that it was not true to say they were dead. Hell, I even said they might be dead to us, us meaning enthusiasts. AMD may eventually just be a budget option for frugal builders who want pretty good returns on their investments while not breaking the bank. They may never excite US any more, but that FAR from makes them dead, especially if they manage to earn a ton of cash and recapture market share.

This whole time, you've been straw-manning and flamebaiting, all while not actually stepping back and realizing you're just being Don Quixote jousting at windmills, and there never was some boogie-man AMD fanboy for you to argue against in the first place...
 
Digital Viper-X- said:
Man this thread is hilarious :) Some people are just too invested into Team A or Team B.
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Agreed. Jesus, the reaction I got just for saying AMD technically, from a fiscal standpoint, appears to be in a recovery period.

SACRILIGE! How dare I state what financial people who don't give a shit about graphics cards or enthusiasts are saying about the profitability of a company!

pfft...
 
Zion Halcyon said:
Agreed. Jesus, the reaction I got just for saying AMD technically, from a fiscal standpoint, appears to be in a recovery period.

SACRILIGE! How dare I state what financial people who don't give a shit about graphics cards or enthusiasts are saying about the profitability of a company!

pfft...
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Yes. Cause 'financial people' are reliable, not like 'financial people' caused a worldwide recession or anything :p
 
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Zion Halcyon said:
Agreed. Jesus, the reaction I got just for saying AMD technically, from a fiscal standpoint, appears to be in a recovery period.

SACRILIGE! How dare I state what financial people who don't give a shit about graphics cards or enthusiasts are saying about the profitability of a company!

pfft...
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I listened to Dr Lisa Su (AMD CEO) when she visited GLOBALFOUNDRIES where I work. AMD has a lot of new stuff on their plate and new products will come out this year. AMD has implemented HT in their new CPUs so they will compete with Intel. Polaris 10 and 11 is very near reality.
 
Denial said:
They are paying ~$60M a quarter to interest on those loans and that's about it. Their debt has actually increased in the last year. If they don't come up with $600M by the end of 2018 they default on them. Even if they do come up with the $600M they need another $1B by the end of 2020.

Which means they need to find someone willing to lend them an unsecured $1.6B, essentially by the end of 2018. Which no one is going to do, unless they have a hugely successful turn around in the next year or so.

And honestly, no, I don't think anyone is overestimating it. Everyone here on Guru3D thinks that AMD can just release a competitive product and it's going to magically even the market out. Even when AMD completely dominated Intel performance wise during the 2004 --> 2006 time period, they didn't manage to gain majority marketshare. So why now would a product only equaling Intel's performance somehow manage to turn AMD's market around? Hell, in areas where they are competitive today, they can't even get their products into OEM designs. Anandtech wrote an entire article about it.

It's the same thing on the GPU side. Polaris is going to be pretty good for the market, it's going to lower prices and perform nicely there, probably going to bring in some nice revenue too. But AMD had this before, with the 5000 series. They had a six month head start on Nvidia and arguably won that entire generation of chip (because Fermi was terrible) and all it amounted to was a ripple on the marketshare graph.

http://img.techpowerup.org/131030/discrete.jpg

People keep thinking this about AMD just needing to be competitive. They can't be just competitive, they have to be beyond that if they want to gain anything -- and they are running out of time to do it.

It's also not the end of the world if they go under either. There is a reason why the split off RTG and whatnot. If the company starts going under you can expect that they'll split the pieces off and sell them individually. Someone like Samsung will pick up most of it and will enter the market. It's too big for them not too.
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gnawrot said:
I listened to Dr Lisa Su (AMD CEO) when she visited GLOBALFOUNDRIES where I work. AMD has a lot of new stuff on their plate and new products will come out this year. AMD has implemented HT in their new CPUs so they will compete with Intel. Polaris 10 and 11 is very near reality.
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You work at glofo? Steal a zen chip, for great justice.
 
Cool the fun is still going on!.. might just go home early and make a pitcher of jalapeno Margaritas, sit back and watch the nerd-train go off the rails some more.
Man, some of you neck-beard basement dwellers need to get laid :D:LOL::ROFLMAO::woot:
 
If somebody buys AMD it will be definitely a good buy. It is a good company that does not perform well.
 
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