AMD issues guidelines to retailers to prevent Radeon RX 6000 scalping

cybereality

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I'll wait for AIB cards to release, but I did check just for fun and they're all sold out.
 
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So this may be a naive point of view/question, but it seems to me that all the hype has been generated because there is finally competition in a space where there was none before. In terms of AMD vs. NVIDIA, or AMD vs. Intel. The hope from an enthusiast point of view was that this would result in a market correction or at least more competitive prices. The reality is that we have 3 releases, 3000, Zen 3, 6000, where enthusiasts are getting scalped and having to pay double the price or more(I know they dont have to pay, I wouldnt pay that but that is not the point.) It seems strange that these TECH companies cannot find any way to diminish in any way the day one reseller problem. I am not desperate for a new toy, I am just concerned about the trend from a hobbyists perspective.
 

exlink

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So this may be a naive point of view/question, but it seems to me that all the hype has been generated because there is finally competition in a space where there was none before. In terms of AMD vs. NVIDIA, or AMD vs. Intel. The hope from an enthusiast point of view was that this would result in a market correction or at least more competitive prices. The reality is that we have 3 releases, 3000, Zen 3, 6000, where enthusiasts are getting scalped and having to pay double the price or more(I know they dont have to pay, I wouldnt pay that but that is not the point.) It seems strange that these TECH companies cannot find any way to diminish in any way the day one reseller problem. I am not desperate for a new toy, I am just concerned about the trend from a hobbyists perspective.
In the end AMD, Nvidia, and the retailers all get their money regardless if it goes to a scalper or an actual end user. They’ll openly say they’re taking extra steps to prevent botting, but in reality they know their extra steps are the equivalent of trying to put out a 5 alarm fire with a bucket of water. They do not care enough to put in anymore effort or invest anymore money to prevent it as, like I said at the beginning, they’re still getting their cut regardless who it goes to.
 
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sphinx99

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Bottom line, this is unimpressive supply chain management and planning. If you think about it, there was another company that launched a complex $1,000 device right around the same time that nVidia did.... Apple with the iPhone 12. That's a product right in the same price point as the GPUs and CPUs being discussed here, they are shipping orders of magnitude more units than 3000/5000/6000s combined, and yet from Day 1 you could place an order and get a reliable, predictable pick-up or delivery date. These days that is my expectation for how purchasing tech products should be, and these ongoing fiascos with CPUs and GPUs are inexcusable by comparison.
 

File

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Bottom line, this is unimpressive supply chain management and planning. If you think about it, there was another company that launched a complex $1,000 device right around the same time that nVidia did.... Apple with the iPhone 12. That's a product right in the same price point as the GPUs and CPUs being discussed here, they are shipping orders of magnitude more units than 3000/5000/6000s combined, and yet from Day 1 you could place an order and get a reliable, predictable pick-up or delivery date. These days that is my expectation for how purchasing tech products should be, and these ongoing fiascos with CPUs and GPUs are inexcusable by comparison.
Market Cap Apple: 2.0 trillion

Market Cap AMD: 0.1 trillion
 

LukeTbk

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Apple with the iPhone 12
I never bought an fancy phone and maybe many market are different than Canada, but isn't a giant amount of that product sales goes through a 2-3 year's contract from a cellphone service providers ? That make many things simplers and scalpings cannot really occur under those sales, there is a imagine an unlocked market where it does but isn't it a market minority ?

And if most people update their phone when their contracts ends and not on phone release that spread the demands over time really well.

I think it is ok for supply chain to not support extreme event if that mean more efficient all year's long and cheaper/less polluting, it is hard to imagine building to support this current craze without a lot of waste and extra costs (that would require similar spike for other release to use the supply chain infrastructure all the time)
 

FrgMstr

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FrgMstr

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Looks like FrgMstr was quoted in ufd Tech's video today

Well, just listed to that, thanks for the link. Just to be clear, there will not be 5 to 7X next week, but rather 5 to 7X released through year end. AMD is shipping ASICs to AIBs daily currently. Quantities are ramping up daily/weekly as well. Is what I said....guess I need to go back and read my quote and see what I typed. But anyway...

Here is an update. The data I have been getting, seems that there may be even a few more than projected. If all goes according to plan from what I am getting from AIBs, AMD should be about 8X of what I estimate NV has sold to date in NA.

We will see how it works out. There are going to be a lot of cards out there, but still not nearly enough to satiate demand. That said, I THINK they will be easily to get hold of than 3080/90. You are still going to have to be diligent with your F5 though.

Anyone got an updated list of cards for Amazon 6800 XT? Amazon is being its usual self with its crappy search engine.
 

-Strelok-

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Frank Azor really ruffled some feathers with that tweet of his. Launch looks just as awful as Nvidia, lets hope it's true that there will be a better supply of cards in the coming weeks.
 

Tylerdurdened

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Anyone got an updated list of cards for Amazon 6800 XT? Amazon is being its usual self with its crappy search engine.
By updated you mean any new ones other than the launch day's Sapphire, XFX and Gigabyte? -- I have those links but not anything else. (Plus the two non-XT)

Sapphire
Gigabyte
XFX

edit: the forum auto appends a referral to Amazon links posted here?
 
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FrgMstr

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Frank Azor really ruffled some feathers with that tweet of his. Launch looks just as awful as Nvidia, lets hope it's true that there will be a better supply of cards in the coming weeks.
Yeah. I have known Frank for 20 years and he is a good guy with a true passion for the industry. However, dealing with the hardcore computer hardware enthusiast is much different from dealing with Alienware fanboys. Guess he probably figured that out on his own this week. :)
the forum auto appends a referral to Amazon links posted here?
Yes. Has for years. Explained in the rules.
 

Tylerdurdened

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I'll wait for AIB cards to release, but I did check just for fun and they're all sold out.
Can I ask why? They typically cost a good premium more (going by nVidia), and these cards already are quite hefty in price! The cooling is great this time around it seems.

For easier conversion to water?
 

cybereality

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I generally like the AIB designs better in terms of looks, and also they can be different sizes which may be important depending on the case.

Also, factory overclocking is sometimes nice, but mostly because I like to pick the aesthetics I want.
 

RanceJustice

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What does everyone think the potential is for AIB versions being a significant difference (hopefully improvement) - in cooling, VRMs, power, or some other element - vs the reference designs newly available? My experience may be a bit outdated so I'm not sure how this will affect either the Nvidia 3080 / 3090 or the AMD 6800XT / 6900XT models etc.. but in the past there was the potential that certain AIB versions could be superior to the reference design. If what has been hypothesized thus far is accurate, this may matter even more with AMD given that at least in theory there's little overhead for overclocking on Ampere cards compared to new RDNA2 BigNavi which may have more headroom left for the enthusiast. Then again, perhaps there won';t be much difference vs AIB and reference implementations.
 

Lakados

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What does everyone think the potential is for AIB versions being a significant difference (hopefully improvement) - in cooling, VRMs, power, or some other element - vs the reference designs newly available? My experience may be a bit outdated so I'm not sure how this will affect either the Nvidia 3080 / 3090 or the AMD 6800XT / 6900XT models etc.. but in the past there was the potential that certain AIB versions could be superior to the reference design. If what has been hypothesized thus far is accurate, this may matter even more with AMD given that at least in theory there's little overhead for overclocking on Ampere cards compared to new RDNA2 BigNavi which may have more headroom left for the enthusiast. Then again, perhaps there won';t be much difference vs AIB and reference implementations.
I don’t think either card will offer terribly much over locking headroom. There is little incentive for them to do so now. Back in the day the overclocking headroom was not exactly intentional but a result of design chooses made to accommodate the PC cases and cooling options of the time. They designed the cards to operate in a thermal envelope and users who had better cases with better airflow could push the cards further. But now just about any gamer orientated case can move enough air that it’s not a terribly limiting factor so unless AMD’s AIB’s launch triple slot or liquid options they aren’t likely to get much more than what the Rage Mode gets them unless they move into the more exotic cooling methods.
 
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wizzi01

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I don’t think either card will offer terribly much over locking headroom. There is little incentive for them to do so now. Back in the day the overclocking headroom was not exactly intentional but a result of design chooses made to accommodate the PC cases and cooling options of the time. They designed the cards to operate in a thermal envelope and users who had better cases with better airflow could push the cards further. But now just about any gamer orientated case can move enough air that it’s not a terribly limiting factor so unless AMD’s AIB’s launch triple slot or liquid options they aren’t likely to get much more than what the Rage Mode gets them unless they move into the more exotic cooling methods.

This dude got his 6800xt to 2650MHz.

https://www.tweaktown.com/news/7630...eaks-hwbots-3dmark-firestrike-record/amp.html
 

Mega6

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Powered by a 5950 CPU @ 5.4Ghz bathed in LN2. You caught that right?

2605..
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/jxb8yc/reference_6800xt_11v_undervolt_2605mhz_clock_speed/

2341MHz.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasone...-xt-review-a-ridiculously-compelling-upgrade/

too early to say if these are flukes or this is common. Maybe AMD is playing the conservative MHz game like with the 5k CPUs
 
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Lakados

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FrgMstr

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The AMD ref cooler is a nice piece of hardware, been trying to buy one myself, however the AIBsb have some damn nice coolers coming but those will be at the expense of slot space. We should see some nice clocks.
 
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wizzi01

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Why isn’t that score validated?? I don’t generally do benchmarks but I would think numbers that impressive should be validated. But it’s only 225 points higher than a similarly OC’d 3080 which works out to 0.47% increase. So technically a win but I would say that it only shows that both GPU’s can offer similar OC results.

You said there wasn't much room for overclocking. I posted an article that says different. If you want more information you should do your homework.
 

Lakados

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You said there wasn't much room for overclocking. I posted an article that says different. If you want more information you should do your homework.
Well I guess 17% is pretty good. Only problem is it wasn’t stable.

“According to Lucky_Noob, he overclocked the RX 6800 XT to 2,650 MHz in Performance Tuning. Power limitations meant that the card could not maintain that clock speed during its run, though.”
 

RanceJustice

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Is the main difference between the reference and AIB to be the cooler? Or will there be something in the layout, the PCB, the VRMs, power etc... that will be different beyond simply the cooler attached to it?

If it is the former, then in theory it should be possible to equip just about any reference design with a liquid cooling block, or (I assume one will exist?) an aftermarket air-cooler that is a 2.5+ slot arrangement and get the same outlay? Conversely, if the AIB versions will be using additional components or features that go beyond the cooler itself, that could be something different entirely. For instance, a quick browsing of 3080 and 3090 cards from Asus ROG and EVGA FTW/Kingpin particularly the higher end version, talk about the choice of MOSFETs, capacitors, power phases etc... among other PCB features. Now, I'm not sure if those are meaningfully different from reference boards and if so if they're preferable, but I am wondering if AIB cards differ from reference primarily in terms of cooler and aesthetics, or if there are any component changes that are noteworthy.
 

Marees

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Jarrod Walton at Toms & Areej at hardware times reported stable 2500 Mhz for the 6800. The 6800 XT would have lesser headroom, I think unless you have a better cooling system
 
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Is the main difference between the reference and AIB to be the cooler? Or will there be something in the layout, the PCB, the VRMs, power etc... that will be different beyond simply the cooler attached to it?

If it is the former, then in theory it should be possible to equip just about any reference design with a liquid cooling block, or (I assume one will exist?) an aftermarket air-cooler that is a 2.5+ slot arrangement and get the same outlay? Conversely, if the AIB versions will be using additional components or features that go beyond the cooler itself, that could be something different entirely. For instance, a quick browsing of 3080 and 3090 cards from Asus ROG and EVGA FTW/Kingpin particularly the higher end version, talk about the choice of MOSFETs, capacitors, power phases etc... among other PCB features. Now, I'm not sure if those are meaningfully different from reference boards and if so if they're preferable, but I am wondering if AIB cards differ from reference primarily in terms of cooler and aesthetics, or if there are any component changes that are noteworthy.
I jokingly want to answer this as “yes,yes, and yes” but I think really it depends. Cooling is usually better, usually. You tend to get a quieter card overall, usually. And you sometimes get better binned silicon when you pay the up charge for certain pre over clocked models. I think usually most people want the aesthetic and quieter cooling over reference cards. And do note that reference does not necessarily mean founders edition.
 

Marees

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So whatever happened to this?

Custom Radeon RX 6800 launch a BIG mess, WAY less units than Ampere!
The embargo NDA for custom Radeon RX 6800 XT and Radeon RX 6800 graphics cards has lifted, and there are barely any reviews.

Read more: https://www.tweaktown.com/news/7644...ig-mess-way-less-units-than-ampere/index.html

What triggered this was VideoCardz and its custom Radeon RX 6800 XT Roundup -- of which there are not many at all.

https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-radeon-rx-6800-custom-series-review-roundup
 

ManofGod

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Well, we cannot purchase any of the new cards from either side, unfortunately for those who were waiting to upgrade. I could not resist the upgrade bug in the first 6 months of the year so I upgraded all 3 of my computers to Zen 2. Also, since I was not upgrading to a Series X, I upgraded to a 2TB SSD internally for my One X instead.

I am saying this to remind you guys, you can do SSD and motherboard upgrades, regardless.
 

FrgMstr

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Custom Radeon RX 6800 launch a BIG mess, WAY less units than Ampere!
The embargo NDA for custom Radeon RX 6800 XT and Radeon RX 6800 graphics cards has lifted, and there are barely any reviews.

Read more: https://www.tweaktown.com/news/7644...ig-mess-way-less-units-than-ampere/index.html

What triggered this was VideoCardz and its custom Radeon RX 6800 XT Roundup -- of which there are not many at all.

https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-radeon-rx-6800-custom-series-review-roundup
By the end of the quarter, AMD will have to RETAIL shelves at least 5X the total of Ampere shipments. The quarter is heavily backloaded. AMD is shipping ASIC BOM kits daily at this point. You will see a stock pretty much every day with it ramping in quantity to the end of the quarter through AIBs. AMD will also still be selling MBA cards on its own site as well. I don't get much insight into the MBA number at AMD since much of my information comes from AIBs. But rest assured, those AMD AIB cards are coming through the next 36 days to retail.

This is worth saying again as well. There is NO WAY that AMD can fill the demand giving the gaping hole that NVIDIA lest when it abandoned the gaming market and decided to ship hundreds of thousands of ASICs to Chinese mining companies.

Edit: 6800 supplies will continue to ramp in Q1'21.
 

FrgMstr

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businesses are not going to pass up money
Pretty much this... ^

AIBs are hundreds of thousands of units behind in projected sales for Q4 with NVIDIA pulling its ASICs out of the gaming market. Had NV shipped those estimated 500K Ampere ASICs to gamers (instead of miners), we would not be seeing the overall demand in the $500 to $1000 video card Q4 TAM. The AIBs are hurting, production lines have been shut down and/or retooled, and this is costing them more money outside of lost sales. The demand is crazy right now and AIBs are going to take advantage of this. If AIBs get "too out of hand" on retail pricing, I would imagine this would negatively impact them on future ASIC allocations from AMD, but there is only so much AMD can do legally. AMD's hands are pretty much tied when it comes down to retail pricing due to laws in NA and EU. Bottom line, demand is extremely high, and if people are willing to pay inflated prices, we will continue to see inflated prices.
 

Lakados

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The title of the thread is anti scalper measures, seems those are nowhere to be found. And you don’t have any actual numbers for Nvidia, and only promises by AMD/AIBs.
And with Silicon prices going up by as much as 40% that makes me think we are going to see some price hikes for 2021, that or a dramatic slow down in card production, either way, I'm not expecting decent stock levels on anything from either party for a long while.
 
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