AMD is competitive!

Main issue is ryzen does not come with a gpu yet so system builders are unlikely to use amd in basic system builds due to the gpu requirement

You know this is starting to drive me up the wall now can you please remove the auto formatting feature that you've got on your forum code some other forums are also doing it as well it is preventing me from using my mobile from automatically correcting words on the fly or even when iIselecI I s the corrcor word (i did not fix them last words)
 
OnceSetThisCannotChange said:
Isn't the GPU version out already and handily beating the Intel version?
Click to expand...

...at what?

Do remember that we're not complaining about IGP speed. We're talking about the lack altogether on Ryzen meaning that there is nothing to power the video outputs on AM4 boards and that a discrete GPU is required for every build.
 
Everyone knows desktop Raven Ridge is February 12th. Would liked to see if earlier but it's consistent with roadmap. This will be a high volume part.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
...at what?

Do remember that we're not complaining about IGP speed. We're talking about the lack altogether on Ryzen meaning that there is nothing to power the video outputs on AM4 boards and that a discrete GPU is required for every build.
Click to expand...
that is the whole point, cpu VS apu. you want onboard vid you get the one with onboard vid. a 7980x doesn't have igpu...
 
pendragon1 said:
that is the whole point, cpu VS apu. you want onboard vid you get the one with onboard vid. a 7980x doesn't have igpu...
Click to expand...

Yes, but there isn't even an option just yet is what he's getting at I think. Personally, I'd like a 6C/12T APU to run as my Plex server. Doubt we'll see one with that many cores though.
 
pendragon1 said:
that is the whole point, cpu VS apu. you want onboard vid you get the one with onboard vid. a 7980x doesn't have igpu...
Click to expand...

You want to make a comparison: you can get a six-core APU from Intel, but at best AMD is only releasing four-core APUs.

Even better: the APU with the fastest CPU and fastest GPU will be the i7 8809G with an Intel quad-core and AMD GPU with HBM, which will make a great Plex server!
 
IdiotInCharge said:
You want to make a comparison: you can get a six-core APU from Intel, but at best AMD is only releasing four-core APUs.

Even better: the APU with the fastest CPU and fastest GPU will be the i7 8809G with an Intel quad-core and AMD GPU with HBM, which will make a great Plex server!
Click to expand...

AMD's APU's target the general consumer in the entry and mainstream markets, their performance in that area especially in multimedia based performance far outperforms any Intel HD solution. The 8809G is a niche market part that only Apple will drive given their market pull factor and it is not the CPU that people really want in that part, it is the graphics solution that gives it the appeal. It is a massive win for Apple who don't need a discrete Nvidia solution and don't need to pay a premium on the old failed iris experience.
 
OrangeKhrush said:
AMD's APU's target the general consumer in the entry and mainstream markets
Click to expand...

The Pro series didn't target that. Neither Opteron APUs did.

OrangeKhrush said:
The 8809G is a niche market part that only Apple will drive given their market pull factor and it is not the CPU that people really want in that part, it is the graphics solution that gives it the appeal. It is a massive win for Apple who don't need a discrete Nvidia solution and don't need to pay a premium on the old failed iris experience.
Click to expand...

So Intel will have the faster APU. And now with Raja on Intel side...
 
juanrga said:
The Pro series didn't target that. Neither Opteron APUs did.



So Intel will have the faster APU. And now with Raja on Intel side...
Click to expand...

Your so obvious. So Jim Keller was just another person on AMD side according to you. But now that Raja works on the Intel stuff then Intel is suddenly going to be relevant in graphics.. hahaha, laughing so hard my sides hurt.
 
OrangeKhrush said:
AMD's APU's target the general consumer in the entry and mainstream markets, their performance in that area especially in multimedia based performance far outperforms any Intel HD solution. The 8809G is a niche market part that only Apple will drive given their market pull factor and it is not the CPU that people really want in that part, it is the graphics solution that gives it the appeal. It is a massive win for Apple who don't need a discrete Nvidia solution and don't need to pay a premium on the old failed iris experience.
Click to expand...

What the hell is 'multimedia based performance'?
 
gigaxtreme1 said:
I think he may mean graphics performance, but then again what does that mean. I'm glad that AMD finally has an APU for the mainstream performance sector. Or at least will have next week.
Click to expand...

With respect to graphics performance, we're really just talking about game performance- not something I'm worried about as the AMD APUs, while certainly faster, are simply not faster enough when being strapped to dual-channel DDR4. The 8809G with HBM-fed Radeon graphics is probably the first integrated video setup that will provide a real leap in compact system graphics performance, yet that's not a part that fits into a desktop socket (it has a socket, but it's huge).

I will say that I am also glad myself that AMD is pushing these APUs, but I'd be even happier if every Ryzen desktop part had a Radeon component. Even if they restricted the higher-end Ryzen parts to slimmed-down Radeon implementations, you'd still have the ability to power monitors and do hardware video processing!
 
Really like to see AMD use HBM2 on their APUs. Cost seem to be the factor there. Memory prices need to come down, obviously. But really, mainstream desktop parts don't need gaming performance. That's why i see high volume. Coming kind of late in the cycle though.
 
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gigaxtreme1 said:
Really like to see AMD use HBM2 on their APUs. Cost seem to be the factor there. Memory prices need to come down, obviously. But really, mainstream desktop parts don't need gaming performance. That's why i see high volume. Coming kind of late in the cycle though.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's impossible, but putting HBM into AM4, 115x, or any other consumer-oriented socket is going to be difficult.
 
Verado said:
Does anyone really think Raja got hired to make mainstream hardware?
Click to expand...

He is there to fight Nvidia in the professional segment, but that doesn't imply the developments of his group cannot be inherited by the consumer processors latter.

Gideon said:
Your so obvious. So Jim Keller was just another person on AMD side according to you. But now that Raja works on the Intel stuff then Intel is suddenly going to be relevant in graphics.. hahaha, laughing so hard my sides hurt.
Click to expand...

I didn't say anything about Koduri when he was on AMD. So you must be confounding me with that people that considered Koduri a God when he was on the AMD side, but now consider him little more than the coffeboy. I have seen AMD fanboys insulting him on twitter after leaving AMD. No one insulted him when leaved Apple and joined AMD. Koduri profile still can be found on AMD site

http://www.amd.com/en-gb/who-we-are/corporate-information/leadership/raja-koduri

If you think all that is irrelevant now that he joined Intel, please do it. ;)

About Jim Keller, I am guilty of refuting the hype and false statements that certain people spread everywhere again and again and again since Keller joined AMD the last time. I am guilty of stating facts: Keller wasn't the chief architect of x64, neither of Cyclone, he wasn't chief architect of K7 neither K8.

I also consider an injustice how many people has filled forums with claims that Keller is the chief architect of Zen, when he isn't. I am guilty of posting photos like the next

rbb-AMD1.jpg


This is a photo of the Zen team leaded by Suzzane Plummer. the man by her side is Zen's chief architect: Michael Clark.
 
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juanrga said:
He is there to fight Nvidia in the professional segment, but that doesn't imply the developments of his group cannot be inherited by the consumer processors latter.



I didn't say anything about Koduri when he was on AMD. So you must be confounding me with that people that considered Koduri a God when he was on the AMD side, but now consider him little more than the coffeboy. I have seen AMD fanboys insulting him on twitter after leaving AMD. No one insulted him when leaved Apple and joined AMD. Koduri profile still can be found on AMD site

http://www.amd.com/en-gb/who-we-are/corporate-information/leadership/raja-koduri

If you think all that is irrelevant now that he joined Intel, please do it. ;)

About Jim Keller, I am guilty of refuting the hype and false statements that certain people spread everywhere again and again and again since Keller joined AMD the last time. I am guilty of stating facts: Keller wasn't the chief architect of x64, neither of Cyclone, he wasn't chief architect of K7 neither K8.

I also consider an injustice how many people has filled forums with claims that Keller is the chief architect of Zen, when he isn't. I am guilty of posting photos like the next

rbb-AMD1.jpg


This is a photo of the Zen team leaded by Suzzane Plummer. the man by her side is Zen's chief architect: Michael Clark.
Click to expand...


Still laughing my ass off.... Look forward to that joke you call Intel graphics, Raja will be lost in the crowd at Intel, I will be surprised if he stays more then 2 years. Jim Keller has proven himself to be one of the best and why people were happy to see him back at AMD. After Zen launched and you arrived on the forums, I would say he did a great job with helping to build Zen. The only hype you think you refute is in your own head. I look forward to the next Intel graphics flop, perhaps Raja will get to present it.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
What the hell is 'multimedia based performance'?
Click to expand...

The common usage for APU's has been multimedia systems as you called it a Plexserver, APU's have long served the market where codecs utilise the advantage in integrated graphics.

juanrga said:
The Pro series didn't target that. Neither Opteron APUs did.



So Intel will have the faster APU. And now with Raja on Intel side...
Click to expand...


I don't get what the hype on Raja is, he oversaw 5 years where his competitor took every prize on route to complete dominance, this despite separating RTG from AMD as an autonomous unit. The Irony is that AMD graphics division as was has outperformed RTG as a separate entity. All he did was squander money chasing high bandwidth memory performance at the cost of texture compression. You also have to ask, which side of the Multichip unit gives the product it's identity, the obvious answer is the VegaM which remains an AMD trademark. So they have the faster custom solution APU, but not that AMD mind when they bank the usage cheques.
 
juanrga said:
He is there to fight Nvidia in the professional segment, but that doesn't imply the developments of his group cannot be inherited by the consumer processors latter.



I didn't say anything about Koduri when he was on AMD. So you must be confounding me with that people that considered Koduri a God when he was on the AMD side, but now consider him little more than the coffeboy. I have seen AMD fanboys insulting him on twitter after leaving AMD. No one insulted him when leaved Apple and joined AMD. Koduri profile still can be found on AMD site

http://www.amd.com/en-gb/who-we-are/corporate-information/leadership/raja-koduri

If you think all that is irrelevant now that he joined Intel, please do it. ;)

About Jim Keller, I am guilty of refuting the hype and false statements that certain people spread everywhere again and again and again since Keller joined AMD the last time. I am guilty of stating facts: Keller wasn't the chief architect of x64, neither of Cyclone, he wasn't chief architect of K7 neither K8.

I also consider an injustice how many people has filled forums with claims that Keller is the chief architect of Zen, when he isn't. I am guilty of posting photos like the next

rbb-AMD1.jpg


This is a photo of the Zen team leaded by Suzzane Plummer. the man by her side is Zen's chief architect: Michael Clark.
Click to expand...

When Raja left Apple he was a potential up and comer and the stars were the limit, he represented new ideas that could maybe come good. 5 years later and lots of puffing he oversaw a lot of meh performance, compared to how much he talked them up. So the ridicule was well deserved considering how he pushed Vega to be something it is not and delayed it to. His team marketed this as a Volta Killer and got egg on face. I don't think he went on leave, I think AMD suspended him on performance review. Intel decided to take a chance on him now. Right now Raja is more Tim Beckham than Carlos Corea as it were.
 
the performance of the built in video of intel cpu video is perfectly fine as long as your not playing games, the lack of a RYZEN apu CPU at launch and now is hurting them as system builders and business are not going to splash out on a unneeded GPU that you get with a intel CPU (the A12 should of not been made for the AM4 platform as it not based on Zen its a bulldozer CPU with video on it)
 
shame their stock price is not showing their success...breakout year is like AMD cannot do anything right as far as stock investors are concerned...Intel and Nv seemingly can shit the bed and their stock price goes up, AMD can go from being in the red for a very long time go to a massive profitability/competitive and while stock did go up from like $1.62 or something like that early last year it seems to bounce around $11-$13, when it should be IMO ~$20.

stock price is supposed to signify a companies "value" how can you be more valuable than selling everything you make (high revenue potential) and go from barely competing to being extremely competitive on all fronts (valuation)

I just don't get it.
 
juanrga said:
About Jim Keller, I am guilty of refuting the hype and false statements that certain people spread everywhere again and again and again since Keller joined AMD the last time. I am guilty of stating facts: Keller wasn't the chief architect of x64, neither of Cyclone, he wasn't chief architect of K7 neither K8.

I also consider an injustice how many people has filled forums with claims that Keller is the chief architect of Zen, when he isn't. I am guilty of posting photos like the next

This is a photo of the Zen team leaded by Suzzane Plummer. the man by her side is Zen's chief architect: Michael Clark.
Click to expand...

So the fact that AMD themselves cited Jim Keller as chief architect for hypertransport, one of the chief designers for implementation on x64, Zen, K12, K7-8 etc has no bearing.

Jim was hired to lead the team on development of AMD newest CPU design, were there others involved before and since, yes, is it possible that when he came back to AMD in 2012 he organized the cupboard sort of speak, absolutely, is it even possible that his work/design that he made is now being handled by the folks in the picture you posted, for sure.

Just because they are still there and may have laid the foundation (which he then optimized) does not make them solely responsible for, course then again it does not make Jim the ONLY one responsible either (team of hundreds if not thousands) will always have 1 leader. Dr Su


"claim" whatever you want juanrga (which seems based on the multiple postings others made that you seem to demonize to begin with as proof) fact is AMD knows what AMD does, I sure as hell do not, and am quite certain no amount of posts you make about for or against AMD mean anything more than any other armchair quarterbacks :D
 
Gideon said:
The only hype you think you refute is in your own head.
Click to expand...

The hype about Keller is real and not only in forums. Several review sites and the Wikipedia contribute to it with false information.

OrangeKhrush said:
I don't get what the hype on Raja is, he oversaw 5 years where his competitor took every prize on route to complete dominance, this despite separating RTG from AMD as an autonomous unit. The Irony is that AMD graphics division as was has outperformed RTG as a separate entity. All he did was squander money chasing high bandwidth memory performance at the cost of texture compression. You also have to ask, which side of the Multichip unit gives the product it's identity, the obvious answer is the VegaM which remains an AMD trademark. So they have the faster custom solution APU, but not that AMD mind when they bank the usage cheques.
Click to expand...

OrangeKhrush said:
When Raja left Apple he was a potential up and comer and the stars were the limit, he represented new ideas that could maybe come good. 5 years later and lots of puffing he oversaw a lot of meh performance, compared to how much he talked them up. So the ridicule was well deserved considering how he pushed Vega to be something it is not and delayed it to. His team marketed this as a Volta Killer and got egg on face. I don't think he went on leave, I think AMD suspended him on performance review. Intel decided to take a chance on him now. Right now Raja is more Tim Beckham than Carlos Corea as it were.
Click to expand...

What hype about Koduri? Mentioning he is smart and that he will probably make smart things at Intel is not hyping, but a logical conclusion.

Do you REALLY pretend to convince me that the Intel® Core™ i7-8809G Processor is in reality an AMD product because the customized Vega GPU gives the product it's identity? LOL

So he was smart on Apple, but arrived to AMD and he lost his mojo instantaneously? The problem wasn't him. The problem was Lisa Su reducing resources on the RTG group and moving those resources to the CPU group, more concretely to Zen.

He was completely dissatisfied with the lack of resources to develop his work and then moved to Intel.

dragonstongue said:
So the fact that AMD themselves cited Jim Keller as chief architect for hypertransport, one of the chief designers for implementation on x64, Zen, K12, K7-8 etc has no bearing.
Click to expand...

Do you mean the same marketing team that hypes AMD products? When people asked Lisa Su the next

Who had the biggest role in the creation of Ryzen? Was it you? Jim Keller? Someone else?
Click to expand...

She replied:

Lisa Su said:
In terms of the creation of Ryzen, I am really really really PROUD of our team. To build something like Ryzen takes really smart people coming together around a big, audacious goal and the Ryen team did it. The lead architect on Ryzen was a guy named Mike Clark and together with the entire global team, made Ryzen a reality. (3
Click to expand...

Not only she praises the Zen team, which I presented you, but she confirms the chief architect is Mike.

Keller was chief architect for K12.

The K7 was made by a combined pair of teams leaded by Dirk Meyer and Fred Weber, with Meyer being the lead engineer.

Keller worked as chief architect on a prototype of the K8, but it was canceled and he left AMD. Then a new K8 was designed by a team leaded by Fred Weber. This team designed the new K8 over the basis of the former K7. The K8 was a revised K7 with 64bits.

The x64 extensions were developed by Kevin McGrath and Dave Christie.

And so on...
 
Okay, Raja is going to make smart things for Intel. You can't lose mojo if you never really had it to begin with. The apologists will find a way to turn under performance into a "resources' thing, like how the X86 side on the same resources turned it around on that front. I am not saying Raja is useless but he is far from the person you expect, the guy is like Zidane, expected more and underachieved that is worthy of a sack, he is lucky Intel are desperate enough.

Intel secured Apples services by virtue of looking into a custom silicon arrangement with AMD, Apple simply didn't want Intel home brew solution and Nvidia are expensive so Intel needed to, or had no choice but to secure a custom silicon to tap into the endless cash pit that is Apple. The identity on the new Multi chip is not another run of the mill intel, same flavour of the month, it is the discrete level iGPU that is an AMD propitiatory standard, one that Intel is paying a fortune for and what Apple are marketing and it is the graphics that sells these parts, getting Nvidia mid level solutions on die is "irresponsible amounts of performance". The part is identified by its graphics solution, nobody would buy it with Intel GT rubbish inside.

Good luck to your hero Raja, he is now officially out of the "resources" excuses, if he can't beat Nvidia (and Radeon) then there is no hiding anymore.
 
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Figured I would post something on this thread other than the boring corperatey stuff.

Ryzen looks to be doing well in the new Kingdom Come game.

This first chart isn't AMD vs Intel, but more so the importance of having the extra cores. The GPU demand is crazy, but you can use 720p ultra to represent 1080p High. As the norm, this does not show the 1% lows, so disperaty could be even higher:
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Performance_Analysis/Kingdom_Come_Deliverance/4.html
a.PNG


The 1700x stock is about 10% behind the 8700k stock. Strangely, o/c does not help that much. Again, this does not show the min frames. However, it is clear that a 4/4 solution is really showing to be a problem in modern games. That is why a 2400g is better start to future upgrades than a Pentium - GT 1030 / RX 550 solution. When you want to upgrade, you still have a potent cpu. Guru 3d uses 1080p High, which lines up VERY nicely with 720p ultra.
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_page..._graphics_performance_benchmark_review,8.html
b.PNG


GAMEGPU also has a article that shows very good performance for Ryzen. I am not sure what is going on there, so I won't post it. If someone can translate it better, please do.
http://gamegpu.com/action-/-fps-/-tps/kingdom-come-deliverance-test-gpu-cpu

Lastly, is the purepc graph that I am sure that the Intel forums will throw around. This is a 1080p ultra graph, but 43 FPS on an O/c R5 seems ridiculous. This supposedly shows min times, but I am calling BS as the 8350k should be falling on it's face. I am sorry, but this looks almost too neat and made up. A stock 1700 should not be able to match an R5 1600 running at 3.9 Ghz. It is almost as if they went "(3.9 ghz x 6) = (3.0 ghz x 8)". Sorry, but this is just not the case. Still the IDF will link this joke of a graph.
https://www.purepc.pl/karty_graficz...me_deliverance_jesien_sredniowiecza?page=0,18
c.PNG
 
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Dan_D said:
The decline in the PC wasn't due to Intel dragging it's heels. It's due to the proliferation of mobile devices. Mobile devices have gotten more powerful, and eliminated the need for home users to have a traditional PC. These days a personal computer has become a niche item. AMD had no impact on this decline. Intel didn't even raise prices in AMD's virtual absence from the market place. While Intel's IPC has been stagnant, it's performance per watt has improveed greatly over the years. This is in pursuit of the server and mobile markets where performance per watt is king.

And no, AMD wasn't and isn't dead. AMD's ability to operate without making a profit is astounding. I'm glad for Ryzen and Threadripper, although it's made Intel go full retard with it's offerings.
Click to expand...

You are partially right. Though that mostly impacted laptop or prebuilt machine sales. The truth is that most of the bigger advances in the last 8 years or so have been in I/O hardware and protocols, not the processors. People who want desktops have desktops, but many aren't seeing a reason to upgrade when their Sandy Bridge machine still does everything they need it to. They haven't traded their desktops to tablets. If there is a big leap in processor performance, even if it's over the course of a few generations, people might start building new systems again. I'm running Ivy Bridge in my PC, and a freaking Phenom II 965 BE in my wife's PC. I'm aaaallllmost to the point where I want to build another system for myself. 7 and 8 year old hardware, still runs fine though... That's not a testament to the badassedness of the hardware, that's evidence that the processors haven't advanced enough to require an upgrade. Prior to these 2 PCs, the longest I ever kept a desktop was maybe 4 years, but I'm thinking closer to 3.
 
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