AMD is competitive!

Discussion in 'AMD Processors' started by ManofGod, Jan 17, 2018.

  1. OrangeKhrush

    OrangeKhrush [H]ard|Gawd

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    I fully go with this.

    The debate on Zen and fast comes with caveats, in gaming stock clocks or anything that remains lightly or single threaded AMD can't keep up to the newer Intel stuff, however gaming is no longer traditional, gaming is slowly moving to 4K and gaming is becoming very Twitch/Stream centric and AMD seemed to have factored that into how they designed Zen, perhaps not taking intel on in showdown of clocks and ST performance but rather give enough of that with plenty of resources to focus on new generation stream gaming. The recent runs of streamed gaming shows AMD offering tremendous bang for buck and at 4K gaming almost everything is going to be GPU limited which for gaming is the better scenario. Further how fast AMD is should be assessed on equal clock speed, the common caveat is that Intels clocks are anywhere from 22 to 34% higher than AMD's and that is a massive factor.

    In heavy CPU renders AMD remains comfortable even after Coffee lake and its maddening high clocks Zen remains tremendous. Going on Steve Burkes Blender 4N run if calculating Watt seconds of work to complete, the Ryzen 7 1700 is 5% more efficient and 34% faster t han t he 8400 in doing the job despite running more resources.

    I reserve AMD recommendations for a certain types of users but its hard to be overlooking AMD like it was for far to long when there was no reason to own a AMD CPU.
     
  2. juanrga

    juanrga Pro-Intel / Anti-AMD Just FYI

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    This argument works in the other way also.
     
  3. JustReason

    JustReason razor1 is my Lover

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    Well then hurry over to the intel forum and get to work spreading the good news, Lord knows they need it after all these security issues that just keep piling up.
     
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  4. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Since I built both of my machines in March of last year, I have been completely forgetting that prices on ram and video cards are stupid expensive now. Heck, I got my Vega 56 for $469 and even though I could sell if for a hefty profit, I am not going to sell it at all. It says something positive when AMD can gain market share and do better when prices on the other components are stifling those who would build computers but are now waiting until the ram and video card prices come back down.
     
  5. juanrga

    juanrga Pro-Intel / Anti-AMD Just FYI

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    What annoys me is that everyone is worried by this massive security flaw except those salivating because believe this flaw will help their favorite brand to sell many more chips than competitors.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
  6. kirbyrj

    kirbyrj [H]ard as it Gets

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    I'm not sure the great Intel apostle is going to concede that AMD is gaining market share. AMD is actually losing it in the face of the almighty 8700k according to his daily sermons.

    Edit: I told you...see below
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
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  7. juanrga

    juanrga Pro-Intel / Anti-AMD Just FYI

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    Despite what certain evangelists of the Comeback Church pretend to make us believe, AMD won a minuscule 3% marketshare before CoffeeLake launch and has been loosing marketshare since the launch.

    The 8770k continues #1 in sales in Amazon because there are a massive demand for it, and Intel is back to #1 in sales at Mindfactory thanks to CoffeLake.
     
  8. DrDoU

    DrDoU 2[H]4U

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    Got no axes to grind,just use AMD.My Zen(Ryzen sounds like a boil) does everything I want.For work or game I am quite happy.A thousand frames per sec.means nothing to my eyes.
     
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  9. GilmourD

    GilmourD [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Yeah, except AMD hasn't been quite as good at keeping up. AMD nipping at Intel's heels is much more likely these days than Intel nipping at AMD's.

    I was an AMD fanboy. Was. My current build is my first Intel build ever. Ryzen's been tempting me, though.
     
  10. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    You were right. :D I have him on ignore though so i would not have noticed otherwise. Strange how a paper launch can outsell a physically available item. You cannot sell or buy what you do not have.
     
  11. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

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    You always say things but never proof any of it or use extremely biased data and it does not matter what other people post you keep pretending AMD is the loser here.
     
  12. juanrga

    juanrga Pro-Intel / Anti-AMD Just FYI

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    My comment wasn't about AMD and Intel but about certain fans behind. I know some people that smiled when RyZen launched but frowned when Intel did launch CoffeeLake.
     
  13. juanrga

    juanrga Pro-Intel / Anti-AMD Just FYI

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    AMD is more competitive with Zen than before it. No one doubt that. But AMD is not so competitive as some pretend to make us believe.

    Reports about AMD initially wining 3% marketshare with Zen have been given. Data showing that Intel stole back that marketshare with CofffeLake have been given. Links and snapshots to Intel talking #1 position in Amazon bestelling list has been given. December data from Mindfactory showing Intel is back to #1thanks to CoffeLake has been given. You rejecting all of that because it doesn't fit your preconceived ideas doesn't change anything.
     
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  14. JustReason

    JustReason razor1 is my Lover

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    ftfy
     
  15. kirbyrj

    kirbyrj [H]ard as it Gets

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    I remember you saying that the same Mindfactory data a couple months ago was not useful when it showed AMD as the #1 seller. Now suddenly it's relevant because Intel is the #1 seller? Either you're full of shit (most likely) or your full of shit (just as likely).
     
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  16. JustReason

    JustReason razor1 is my Lover

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    Don't forget the "Passmark isn't a good indicator of marketshare" when AMD posted huge numbers.
     
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  17. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    This is what bugs me. As an AMD fan, I am fully aware of Intel performance and am not insecure about it. I like both but I will only do AMD in my personal builds for personal preferences. Not sure why others feel insecure when
    someone speaks well of AMD.
     
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  18. Hagrid

    Hagrid [H]ardness Supreme

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    I would call it 1/2 a launch. You need product to sell for a launch. ;)

    AMD is competitive but I think it also has to do with cpu's getting faster and faster. You can get 1000fps but is it really going to help?
    I say get what is in your budget.
     
  19. Master_shake_

    Master_shake_ [H]ardForum Junkie

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    wait a god damn minute here.

    now mindfactory is important cause intel is on top?

    i thought

    what in the fuck?
     
  20. WhoBeDaPlaya

    WhoBeDaPlaya 2[H]4U

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    We ditched all of our desktops at work about 5-6 years ago for T-series ThinkPads acting as glorified, portable thin-clients to Exceed-on-Demand servers.
    Laptops were kind of necessary for VPN anyway.
     
  21. OrangeKhrush

    OrangeKhrush [H]ard|Gawd

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    He forgot that for the 6 preceding months AMD outsold Intel in that one retailer alone, imagine all the others not named Amazon lol.
     
  22. juanrga

    juanrga Pro-Intel / Anti-AMD Just FYI

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    At least Master_shake_ is quoting what I really said about Mindfactory, when fans and click-bait sites used Mindfactory to hype AMD sales and mislead rest of people.

    I am not using Mindfactory data to represent wordlwide sales. I am using Mindfactory data only to show how things changed in that Germany store after CoffeeLake launch.

    For worldwide sales I am using data from Amazon, Mercury Research, Passmark...

    You couldn't be more wrong! AMD never posted huge numbers. The Passmark database was cheated the day 1 July as I first mentioned here, and I predicted real value "around 21--22%" once the fluctuation removed completely. Latter I recorded the percentages and made a graph with the daily evolution of the percentage after the 1 July cheating

    [​IMG]

    The graph continued self-correcting in next days as I reported here and here. Until getting a value of 22.90% the day 28 Jul, which is close to the 21--22% value I had predicted as real.

    Passmark can be used, only one has to be careful and check. Moreover, I am not using Passmark as the main indicator of sales. I am using Passmark only as a complement to Amazon, Mercury Research, and others' data.
     
  23. OrangeKhrush

    OrangeKhrush [H]ard|Gawd

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    Passmark, the way its meant to be played.

    It takes multiple runs into its census which is a random 50%. Intel fanboys be like "to the passmarkopter"

    I mean their own disclaimer is that it doesn't represent sales but usage, which includes older CPUs. Bad data for purposes of discussing 2017 marketshare on units sold is the kind of stupid certain special citizens use like a broken record
     
  24. OrangeKhrush

    OrangeKhrush [H]ard|Gawd

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  25. juanrga

    juanrga Pro-Intel / Anti-AMD Just FYI

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    As explained to you what Passmark shows agrees with the what actual sales reports show.

    Also you pretend now that marketshare cannot include old CPUs? So when counting the actual number of units in desktops today, we have to eliminate everything is pre-2017? You are trying really hard to negate reality!

    Very elaborate edit of Mindfactory graph that forgets to mention that (i) it only represents sales in one German store, (ii) only counts some CPU models and (iii) it lacks January data.

    Let me state a fourth time I am mentioning Mindfactory only to show how Intel is back to #1 also in that store, thanks to CoffeeLake.
     
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  26. Hagrid

    Hagrid [H]ardness Supreme

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    No matter if AMD was outselling and 9999x faster than Intel, they would still say Intel is faster.
    AMD is doing good and that is good for everybody, even though it may not seem to some people on here.
     
  27. OrangeKhrush

    OrangeKhrush [H]ard|Gawd

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    True, one store but one store trends tend to carry out throughout, wouldn't be surprised if on a scale by multiple resellers the similar trends will show.

    Only counts some? If you look on the right sight there is all the CPU's listed, A pretty extensive list dating to Broadwell E parts, since everything else is EOL.

    I see the concept is one you still cannot grasp so ill just let you go play some passmark, spam it 1000 times to register you sandy bridge scores then come post how you boosted the total. How many sandy's et al were sold in 2017? None exactly.
     
  28. OrangeKhrush

    OrangeKhrush [H]ard|Gawd

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    He shows his true colours on WCCFtech, just follow his discuss, it is like rectum cancer.
     
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  29. Batboy88

    Batboy88 Limp Gawd

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    Sold a lot of 7700k's apparently. the 1800x or Threadripper didn't seem to do very well.
    The Pricing was not that competitive though in a lot of places....If Threadripper or the 1800x was more affordable might of considered it. The 1800x isn't much more though and still a good cpu.
     
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  30. Dermac

    Dermac Limp Gawd

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    If the information was not good earlier, why would it be now. The issue I think most people are having is that if the data point was tainted in the past and you recognized it then, why would you continue to use the same data point source now? I realize that you think that because of example A and example B shows a correction in the chart that it must be correct now, why take the risk in having the possibly corrupted data in the first place?
     
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  31. OrangeKhrush

    OrangeKhrush [H]ard|Gawd

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    The 1800X didnt' make sense when the 1700's offered better value, but on December alone 6.2% of AMD's sales were Threadripper, Intel X299 accounted for 6.1%. It is a niche chip as in most cases how many people can actually afford it.
     
  32. juanrga

    juanrga Pro-Intel / Anti-AMD Just FYI

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    When AMD RyZen is faster than Intel in POV-Ray or Cinebench this is stated. When AMD RyZen sold more units than Intel and won marketshare. Hey I even compute for you how much marketshare AMD got in 2017.

    So you got it backwards. (paraphrasing you) No matter if Intel is outselling and 30% faster than AMD, they would still negate it.
     
  33. juanrga

    juanrga Pro-Intel / Anti-AMD Just FYI

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    We already have worldwide sales and don't need your ruminations.

    Yes your graph only counts some CPUs. In fact it is ignoring some of the more popular CPUs for sale. If you check Amazon best-selling list, you will find Celerons and Pentiums among the top-ten best selling CPUs. That mindfactory graph is artificially inflating sales for AMD by eliminating popular CPUs from the total count.[/QUOTE]
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
  34. Hagrid

    Hagrid [H]ardness Supreme

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    You forgot to minus the up to 30% loss. ;)
     
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  35. juanrga

    juanrga Pro-Intel / Anti-AMD Just FYI

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    The information was good then and is good now. Simply some people was interpreting the information incorrectly then (some still are).
     
  36. juanrga

    juanrga Pro-Intel / Anti-AMD Just FYI

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    The impact of the patches in those benches is 0--1%. :)
     
  37. Hagrid

    Hagrid [H]ardness Supreme

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    Most likely, since they are cherry picked. :) I am learning the Intel way!
     
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  38. juanrga

    juanrga Pro-Intel / Anti-AMD Just FYI

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    Cinebench, Handbrake, Blender, 7-zip,... is the new definition of cherry picked? I believed cheery picking was mentioning only the pair of cases where the performance hit is larger and then ignoring most cases where it is "negligible".
     
  39. OrangeKhrush

    OrangeKhrush [H]ard|Gawd

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    [/QUOTE]

    They do not post sales numbers, just most popular demand for the cycle, and for the first time in 60-80 days Coffee lake has stock, but again Paul Alcorn has covered the trivialities of relying on bad data and making an opinion on it.

    Celerons and Pentiums sold so much they can't even make the list. Like that bimbo in high school that thinks she is it and doesn't get a date for prom night, has to settle with the fat kid that collects swords and thinks he is an anime weeaboo. that kind of popularity.

    Intel fans be like, Im going to get a celeron.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
  40. OrangeKhrush

    OrangeKhrush [H]ard|Gawd

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    I think we should just take stock of the situation, at least Juan has convince one person with his BS.......himself
     
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