AMD introduces Radeon RX 5600 XT for 279 USD

noko

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Apple is shifting OFF 7nm to 5nm (new TSMC 5nm factory) freeing up space for AMD chip production. Papermaster has already communicated that AMD has taken the added TSMC production capacity for 7nm. Also, 5500 production has gone to Samsung.
2nd half of this year is when Apple shifts to 5nm, once that happens AMD will have much higher capacity but it still takes time from that point on. Does not help right now. When 7nm+ Zen 3 hits is anyone guess but I would presume production will start 2nd half of this year as well. RDNA2 GPU's?
 

Chimpee

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2nd half of this year is when Apple shifts to 5nm, once that happens AMD will have much higher capacity but it still takes time from that point on. Does not help right now. When 7nm+ Zen 3 hits is anyone guess but I would presume production will start 2nd half of this year as well. RDNA2 GPU's?
I assuming Nvidia will also eat up part of the free capacity. Depending how much wafer order Nvidia place, it may hinder AMD ability to adequately supply its CPU and GPU consumers and likewise AMD may also hinder Nvidia.
 

chameleoneel

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2nd half of this year is when Apple shifts to 5nm, once that happens AMD will have much higher capacity but it still takes time from that point on. Does not help right now. When 7nm+ Zen 3 hits is anyone guess but I would presume production will start 2nd half of this year as well. RDNA2 GPU's?
Lisa Su just said Zen 3 is 2020
 

Mega6

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Due to order lead times, AMD is already in and to become TSMC largest 7nm customer in 2020.
 

defaultluser

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Due to order lead times, AMD is already in and to become TSMC largest 7nm customer in 2020.

But that's just because they make CPUs and GPUs. And also, because the have priority, NVIDIA knows they will have to split orders with Samsung.

There should be plenty of leftover capacity remaining for Nvidia after Apple transitions most of it's production to 5nm.
 

Mega6

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But that's just because they make CPUs and GPUs. And also, because the have priority, NVIDIA knows they will have to split orders with Samsung.

There should be plenty of leftover capacity remaining for Nvidia after Apple transitions most of it's production to 5nm.
Yes, "already in" means AMD has priority over Nvidia. No it doesn't mean there is leftover capacity. The semiconductor industry is constrained throughout the nodes 14-7nm everywhere. Both Nv and AMD are reaching out to Samsung for extra capacity even though Samsung is not their primary Fab Company. Also, TSMC and most other semi companies are investing in new infrastructure by the billions to create new fabs. "plenty of leftover capacity"? To the contrary. Constrained everywhere at the high end currently.
 
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sirmonkey1985

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Well, that didn't take long.

https://www.techradar.com/news/could-this-geforce-rtx-2060-price-slash-be-nvidias-response-to-amds-rx-5600-xt

I knew they didn't discontinue the 2060 vanilla card for a reason. It was destined for a price cut soon after the Super released. "Soon" just turned into 6 months :D

Thanks AMD!
yeah not surprised, i mean they discontinued and then brought back the 2070 non super instead of just lowering the supers price 50 bucks to compete with the 5700XT. i can't stand the way Nvidia handled this generation of gpu's. trying to explain to less hardware educated people on what cards they should buy whether it's nvidia or AMD is a confusing mess to the point where most of them just throw their hands up in the air and decide to either buy nothing or get last gen cards because it's less confusing.
 

Mega6

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2nd half of this year is when Apple shifts to 5nm, once that happens AMD will have much higher capacity but it still takes time from that point on. Does not help right now. When 7nm+ Zen 3 hits is anyone guess but I would presume production will start 2nd half of this year as well. RDNA2 GPU's?
Papermaster's own acknowledgment that AMD underestimated Ryzen3k success. We are already seeing improvement on availability 3900X, 3960X, new TR.. as AMD has increased their orders and initial demand rush lowers. The new TSMC fab comes on in March 2020. Availability will only continue to improve.
 
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Ranulfo

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yeah not surprised, i mean they discontinued and then brought back the 2070 non super instead of just lowering the supers price 50 bucks to compete with the 5700XT. i can't stand the way Nvidia handled this generation of gpu's. trying to explain to less hardware educated people on what cards they should buy whether it's nvidia or AMD is a confusing mess to the point where most of them just throw their hands up in the air and decide to either buy nothing or get last gen cards because it's less confusing.
Welcome to the upsell generation. Pay $50+ more for 10-15fps more performance. Nvidia started it, AMD followed. Given my Polaris experiences and prices last summer, I was waiting to see what the updated Navi 1.5 or 2.0 generation brings and it looks like that was wise given reported driver issues with navi and prices only somewhat dropping on navi. But, I view the 5700/Xt models as polaris replacements.

At least competition got Nvidia to drop 2060 prices, a year later. But lets be honest, that card was killed by the 5700 and the 2060Super. Just like the 1660ti was killed by the $230 (240-250 current market prices) 1660 Super. I picked up a gaming x 2060 Super at $400 over the holidays with free game and $30 rebate, so $370 AR, free game takes it down to $310 if it matters to the buyer.

Also, those single fan asus and evga 2060 models were being fire sold last summer for $280-290. If you wanted one of those disasters.

Regardless of the reasons why, this whole generation of cards has been a big old shrug of why bother?
 
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Basically you want people to do your research for you. It's like you'd rather have a discussion about opinions rather than actually see what is happening in the market for yourself. It's not the responsibility of others to help you with all the fact checking necessary. If a news broadcast had to bring up every piece of research just to have an interview with counterpoints your method would require 5 hour long broadcasts.
But to answer at least one of the claims that sabrewolf732 brought up Amazon sales: that was posted on in our own Hardforum news section: https://hardforum.com/threads/eight-of-amazons-top-10-best-selling-processors-are-amd-cpus.1990834/
No, I don't expect people to do my research for me other than when I responded to Sabrewolf using my lack of resources and evidence as a weapon against me and responded in kind about how his post didn't include anything substantive other than his words (no different than mine at face value). Thus, if you are going to make claims and say your have evidence and don't present it, then complain about how my feelings are just opinion (which I never claimed they were anything other than) that just seems a bit off to me.

I know what's happening in the market. I have seen all the numbers on how AMD is selling out in stores and all that jazz. That doesn't prove anything other than AMD is selling well with ENTHUSIASTS (this is very important, see the bottom of the response for my thoughts on this). I haven't seen a massive exodus from Intel in the corporate american market. The past two international companies I worked for didn't even consider the shift, even knowing the security flaws that Intel was bringing to the datacenter. We have seen Google Stadia shifting to AMD and Amazon making some sort of move to their chips as well.

You guys just don't like my opinions and I did even take the time to back up why I feel the way I do after I cited Intel's Billions of dollars of investments into R&D, their Gross profits and Capital Expenditures. AMD can't hold a candle to them. It's the elephant in the room that all the AMD fanboys don't want to talk about. My opinion is based on factual evidence, AMD made 500 million in profits over the last year and IIRC either took a loss or broke even over a 3-5 year period prior to that. That evidence paints a grim picture of the long odds that AMD faces. All the while Intel has been dumping money into R&D and had some of their new architectures past 10nm already in the works (since most new designs typically take about 4+ years to develop). They displayed some of their 3D stacked silicon a while ago. Intel also has a larger market footprint in the form of other products than just CPUs and now GPUs.

I only hope they (AMD) can manage to hold position long enough to force competition and choice in the market for more than another one hit wonder like Athlon 64. Which, incidentally, didn't have much of shit for a market impact. Granted Intel was playing dirty. Not much different now, save for the fact that Intel is simply releasing confusing products into the market like Nvidia's Super lineup to keep attention off of AMD. It's all deflection and as a market leader, Intel has their work cut out for them. AMD has an up hill battle while taking heavy automatic fire, from an entrenched position, during their slow crawl.


Enthusiasts vs Us

Another fact to contend with is that most normal people don't know shit about computers. Even the average end user that works at the company I am consulting for at the moment (Hitachi America) doesn't understand the difference between a CPU and a computer Chassis. Let alone the brand of the CPU powering the system. Some of them have heard of the Intel name. None of them have heard of AMD.

The other day I was in Wallmart and one guy was explaining to his friend the difference between Intel and AMD (and I forced myself to remain silent even though I wanted to strangle the guy for his misleading descriptions of AMD being, essentially a shit processor) and his summary was that AMD was "cheaper" and Intel was better. Even though he was talking about a Ryzen PC with 8 Cores and 16 threads and a 5700 Series Graphics card vs an Intel i5 with a 1600 GT. It's not the first time I have run into this kind of nonsense, I typically inject my opinion and correct the issue. The point is, that other than communities like the [H] most people don't know shit about AMD or Intel and only know Intel's market dominance for the past 20 years.

AMD Market Penetration sucks

If Lisa Su is to be believed we will be seeing a flood of Laptops with their new 7nm Processors in them. I will believe that when I see it. Until now it's been almost impossible to find an AMD powered laptop in anything other than a bottom barrel offering.

Most big companies like Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc. Barely have been offering anything AMD based over the past several years. I have been trying to get corporate to buy into the AMD APU laptop but they never bite because the only offerings are in very cheap, consumer grade, non business class chassis. Perhaps starting this year it will be different, however, there has been an utter deluge of AMD parts on the market in the mobile sector until now. AMD can't be doing that well if they haven't even manged to get into the mobile market in any significant presence and haven't been pushed into business class machines yet (regardless of the fact that they have a specific Business Class of processors for years now...).

 
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Silentbob343

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In regards to the finance discussions being brought up, specifically Intel's larger R&D expenditures.

Mega6's post does a good job illustrating that an R&D budget is only part of the overall picture.
posted this in the Intel section, seems relevant here.

AMD balance sheet is actually superior to Intel.

Intel
total cash: 12.02B
total debt: 29.48B

AMD
total cash 1.21B
total debt 1.11B

And yes, intel is behind, and falling further away rapidly. the 5GHz / 14nm wall is hitting them hard. Revenue is falling, they are propping up the share price with buybacks in the billions instead of using it for R&D. Intel spent spent $4.5 billion on share repurchases during the third quarter versus $3.2 billion on R&D. Do you know that the CEO of intel is a Finance guy? Not an Engineer like the past. This shows you Intel's true direction.
https://hardforum.com/threads/zen-3-is-rumored-to-be-flaunting-monumental-ipc-gains-in-early-testing.1990942/


Now, I think very few of us are qualified to make judgements based on balance sheets, but that's a topic for another conversation.
 
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Mega6

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In regards to the finance discussions being brought up.


https://hardforum.com/threads/zen-3-is-rumored-to-be-flaunting-monumental-ipc-gains-in-early-testing.1990942/


Now, I think very few of us are qualified to make judgements based on balance sheets, but simply looking at the amount spent on R&D doesn't tell the entire story.
Included was:
Cash Debt
Cash on hand
R&D expenditures
Buyback expenditures

Feel free to elaborate, stating the post was just R&D is a lie.
 

Silentbob343

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Included was:
Cash Debt
Cash on hand
R&D expenditures
Buyback expenditures

Feel free to elaborate, stating the post was just R&D is a lie.
It wasn't clear, but I was not referring to your post with that comment. I was attempting to use your post to refute those that would bring up Intel's R&D budget as reason why AMD is doomed.

Mega6, I updated my previous post to hopefully better convey the point I attempting to make.
 

Mega6

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I wasn't clear, but I was not referring to your post with that comment. I was attempting to use your post to refute those that would bring up Intel's R&D budget as reason why AMD is doomed.
Thanks for clarifying, that makes more sense.
 
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It wasn't clear, but I was not referring to your post with that comment. I was attempting to use your post to refute those that would bring up Intel's R&D budget as reason why AMD is doomed.

Mega6, I updated my previous post to hopefully better convey the point I attempting to make.
I never said AMD was doomed, I have been saying that my opinions are based off of the Intel Juggernaut vs the underdog. I believe that I pretty clearly state my doubts about AMD, however, I have these doubts because of real world facts.

Half the people on here are banner waving, card carrying, die-hard AMD supporters (I used to be one up until Vishera). I want to be one of those... Problem is, I'm not sure the company will be able to hold Intel at bay for long enough to claw back enough market share to remain relevant. I hope so, for the consumer's sake.

AMD is not Doomed. They're just fighting a superior adversary, so their Tactics must be nearly flawless or they will not be relevant for long.
 

crazycrave

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I don't like it .. the upper $279 - 300 RX 5600 XT should have 8Gb of memory if RX 5700 can get this low in price .. then the $200 -259 could be the 6Gb card that I will never buy my self if AMD thinks that's what makes an Nvidia card sale because It makes no scents if RX 5500 has 8Gb at $179 - 200
 
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