AMD “Ignoring” Netbook Market

AMD is in a ditch right now, they need to focus on climbing back up instead of going into other markets. If was pxc is correct then the new CEO is also very correct. Not only can they not, but they don't need to have an answer for absolutely everything Intel puts out. Focus on their main products, CPUs and GPUs, better those and get things rolling and then all will be right in the world...and then maybe after some profits come in, THEN think about putting something else out.

So, short version, I support AMDs choice. That said, I'm looking forward for a Nano netbook to come out.
 
Buying a Netbook is like buying a Wii, you buy them because everyone has them and they are cheap but in the end of the day you are still playing your games on your X360 or PS3 daily.
 
SixtyWattMan said:
Intel wins at marketing again I suppose. Reminds of so many companies using the P4 over the Athlon 64 or X2.
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It must have been "marketing" that kept the Nano from even being released. :p VIA obviously wasn't as ready for release as they claimed several months ago, or even last month, the month before or the month before that. Nano was "launched" in May and it's still not generally available anywhere.

The problem with the lower power versions of Nano is that when you get to the models that use only 2.5x more power than mobile Atoms (i.e. 1GHz 5W Nano U2300 vs 2.0W 1.6GHz Atom Z530), the performance and any cost advantage has disappeared. The $70 initial price of the Z530 + chipset has dropped to ~$50 since release. Budget VIA mobile chipsets are above $20, leaving not much pricing room for a Nano that costs almost 3x more to manufacture than Atom.

The problem with the faster Nano models is that they are no longer suitable for netbooks due to power consumption (17W and 25W). At best, they will be chasing the ultra-portable 4lb segment that AMD is "ignoring" netbooks for instead. :p The market for mediocre performing single core CPUs in the ultra-portable space doesn't look too great. Bad news for VIA. But don't feel bad... Intel didn't do too well in that space either (low cost laptops based on cacheless Celeron M CPUs).

The form factor of ultra-portable is a contradiction for low cost systems. While some components may cost less (2.5" vs 1.8" HDD or 2.5" HDD vs SSD, and higher TDP processors, as examples), the larger LCD, larger battery and more materials required increase costs. It's not surprising there's not a big market there... and if there ever is, it's not going to be as cheap as netbooks. The Dell Mini 12 is a preview of the space AMD is going after.
 
I have been looking for a netbook with minimum graphics performance, if AMD does not join the netbook fever i will be stuck with a future release of the new NVIDIA integrated graphics- currently the best integrated VGA on Core 2 systems.

And the picture is VERY unclear to me right now: netbooks sell like hell, they are the dream of casual users and also the perfect machine for modders, AMD has: a low power CPU that destroys the Atom performance-wise, the best integrated graphics on the market on power AND performance, vast experience with mini-ITX MOBOs all of these itens with tested drivers: why hasnt a team pickep up a miniITX mobo layout, cut some features and put it on a 9-10 inches netbook yet?

As for the arguments that netbooks are a moot concept i beg to disagree: they cost less than an N96 and can have way more uses than a top cellphone: modders have put on the same eeePC: a touchscreen, GPS, Bluetooth, extra internal USB ports...name an USB device and someone has found a way to make it work INSIDE that small frame- imagine that device with an AMD graphics solution!
 
I recently bought an Acer Aspire One and I'm loving it... I'm not disatisfied at all with it's performance, sure it's no multi-tasking fiend but WinXP is reasonably snappy with the HT-capable Atom and 1GB-2GB of RAM if you're not expecting too much from it. Pricing and battery life certainly enter into the equation of overall satisfaction though. I use it as much at the couch as I do on the go.

There's a lot of people already predicting a trend toward more lower cost mainstream laptops in the 12-13" range (and most netbooks are already 10" w/some 12" coming), people do want something smaller, and in the past they've had to pay a huge premium for such a small system but no more. Keyboard's very usable on my AAO and the 160GB drive is certainly large enough for a reasonable music/doc collection and some movies during trips.

With then number of companies jumping into the market segment there's gotta be some decent profits in there, I mean, what are they all thinking otherwise? IBM, Dell, Samsung, ASUS, Acer, MSI, HP; I mean... Hell, there's almost more big name brands making netbooks than full-on desktops these days. I'd think it'd be a big mistake for AMD to continue ignorning this.

I also own an iPod touch and a Sony Ericsson phone on which I check e-mail and such frequently... Frankly I'd pay for a 3G connection to use with my netbook before I moved to an iPhone, though I'm looking forward to future Android phones. Have any of you asked for the Aspire One or other more recent netbooks at your local retailer? They've been selling out pretty frequently here... /shrug

For those of you that haven't seen or tried one first-hand since the original EEE PC's... I'd take a look at the Acer Aspire One or the Samsung NC10, they've evolved a lot. Larger screens, much more usable keyboards, more and more models opting for roomier HDD's (SSD's still need to come down in cost, etc.), WinXP/Vista, so on and so forth.
 
As others have stated, I think this is a pure business decision on the part of AMD. AMD is currently trying to dig out of a hole and to do that, needs to concentrate on certain areas of business. Trying to push into the netbook market right now would be risky for AMD. Intel has the cash and everything to make a push and not get hurt much by doing so even if the netbook market disappears in a year. AMD does not have the same luxury.

As for the netbook market itself, I'm not knowledgeable enough to make a guess as to how long it will be around. That said, it will probably need to be successful in the business market for it to be profitable in the long run. At this time, that will probably be difficult considering the already entrenched technologies out there. With the number of layoffs and probable budget tightening at many businesses, this is not a time when many companies are going to be doing technology turnovers.

The netbook market for consumers is probably going to be niche at best in the long run. A lot of consumers probably don't want to mess with multiple computers and will generally stick with a single more powerful computer at home. Don't make the mistake of thinking tech minded consumers are the rule rather than the exception.

AMD is probably figuring on jumping into the netbook market at a later time when it's more feasible if the market is still profitable and existent. Sometimes it helps to be one of the first into a market, but not always.

 
I guess they're investing all of their R&D into the desktop field. I guess this allows them to compeditivly cut their prices.
 
SmokeRngs said:
The netbook market for consumers is probably going to be niche at best in the long run. A lot of consumers probably don't want to mess with multiple computers and will generally stick with a single more powerful computer at home. Don't make the mistake of thinking tech minded consumers are the rule rather than the exception.
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Not necessarily, we've been seeing an increase of systems per household for years now... And netbooks make excellent 2dary systems for kids or even people who don't need a workhose laptop obviously, but particularly for households where the family's always fighting over the PC or w/e... In many cases a netbook makes more sense than extra desktops or buying a more expensive laptop.

I think eventually you might see the netbook term disappear though, with netbooks themselves creeping up and more mainstream systems being introduced at a lower price-point and smaller form factor (w/12-13" screens), it's all gonna get shuffled together. The 5-6 hour battery life of current netbooks is still a very very appealing characteristic for many though, besides the size/pricing that's the main reason they're such a fad right now imo.
 
I dont think i could work as well without my dell mini 9... I take my notes on it and write tons of code on it, beats the hell out of bringing a full sized laptop.
 
The problem is the netbook market will never be as big as the general notebook and desktop markets. Second these CPU's are made to be extremely cheap to produce and peanuts for the OEM's to use. The fact is Intel had to design a brand new architecture, use the latest processor to get a CPU that might work ok. Low ASP + Brand New Design = Not the path of a company bleeding red and needing to increase ASP and reduce R&D costs/get better returns on R&D.
 
MSI Wind (the new one with the atom) = awesome, perfect size, keys you can actually type on, does everything... realistic storage capacity etc.
Asus eee = piece of crap... basically no storage(yes i had a pc with 20mb storage at one point but thats hardly relevant), need a dialing wand to use the keyboard, just plain poo...

i agree with amd's decision, because they really need to focus on getting their high-end processors back on track before they sink... and with ATi's buggy 'i dont like vista' graphic cards... i think they're in real trouble now more than before... and it looked so hopeful when they released 4-series, but now i wouldnt touch one with YOUR PC!!! :eek:
 
pxc said:
Don't confuse the netbook segment (~5 million mobile Atoms sold last quarter) with the niche mini ITX segment which uses the low cost 945GC chipset. The platforms are very different for power consumption.
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True, but if they can beat Intel on the miniITX platform, they should be able to tweak it to match Intel in the Netbook segment too. Remember the first netbooks used the Celeron-M processor but with a 6-cell battery, the battery life was still very good. Also AMD is getting their 45nm process ready now. I think they could compete if they wanted to, but they're spending the R&D money on the desktop and server CPUs because that's where it's most needed right now. If Phenom and Opteron get competitive again and AMD starts making money, they'll probably turn their eyes towards other segments like netbooks etc. Also the Fusion chip should, when it finally arrives, be an excellent choice for netbooks.

maxius said:
the thing is they need to price the netbooks at 100 - 200 bux that is as much as i would pay for one. they need to really remake the netbook concept and make it different from a low cost laptop that can be had for 400 - 499
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Prices will come down, and will probably hit $200 next year. You can already get the low-end netbook models for <$250. For about $100 more you can get a harddrive version with ~1.5GB of RAM. Also netbooks aren't simply low cost laptops. They are meant to be ultra-portable and you do pay a premium for that. Ultra-portables existed long before the Netbook concept, but they would cost four times that of a normal notebook. If you simply want a plain notebook and think they're portable enough, you'd be better off getting a such a machine, the netbook concept isn't for you.

SonicTron said:
The netbook is DEFINITELY not a good replacement for your average Joe who wants something to browse youtube, look at his grandkids' pictures, or play movies. It doesn't give the power or versatility of a notebook with a DVD drive, large screen, full motion full screen playback, and flash/java powered applications which have become very popular.
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My Aspire One plays youtube clips and views flash just fine. The most I've tried so far was a 960x540 WMV, which played without a hickup. I'll try DivX later. You can get this Netbook with a 160GB harddrive now, that's a lot of compressed movie content. However the Netbook was never meant as a replacement for your main rig, it's meant to be your second or third system. It can however replace the Notebook for most users. It's perfect for students or even teachers who use the computer as part of the lecture (I wish there were Netbooks when I went to uni..lugging a heavy laptop around isn't fun). It's also good for professionals who travel a lot but don't need alot of computing power (cloud computing etc.). Again, if you want a portable computer with a big screen, decent 3D graphics and a powerful dual-core CPU to replace your main rig, you need to be looking at desktop replacement laptops, not netbooks.
 
JimmiG said:
The high return rate for Netbooks is probably because many come with Linux.
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That's what I've heard, that Linux versions account for maybe 1/3 of sales, but probably 9/10 of returns.

I'm pretty pleased with my MSI Wind.
 
An MSI Executive said linux netbooks were being returned 3x as often as windows ones. Dunno if that's absolute or relative numbers.
 
HardDrugsUser said:
Netbooks look more like a toy for children than something that can be used.
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I use my eeePC 900 daily for medical school. In fact, quite a few Apple/Dell/Other laptop owners express jealously over my long battery life, low encumbrance, and light weight.

People who think they can't be used have obviously never used one...
1. I can take it anywhere, anytime. Even if I don't end up using it, its not a big deal - the thing is tiny
2. The screen is 1024 pixels wide, which has been sufficient for any web pages or apps I've thrown at it.
3. I type at least as fast, if not faster, on my 80% sized eeePC keyboard than on my 100% sized desktop keyboard.
4. I've got 16 gigs of storage after installing windows/other apps, which is plenty for documents/music/whatever else. If I need extra storage, it has a built in SD card reader.
...
...
I could go on and on.
 
Price? Yes well, if it's small and has few features, and is inexpensive to make, and is not very powerful, it SHOULD be cheap, no?

I want a little (less than 3 lbs and easy to carry, and easy to stick in a bag, pouch, etc) notebook that will run for hours without being plugged in, gives me wireless network access (preferably something like Wimax, or EVDO), has a usable keyboard, a readable screen, and it just powerful enough for:

- Using a Linux/UNIX command line, shell scripting, examining UNIX/Linux/Solaris/AIX core/snap/explorer crash files for analysis
- Browsing the web
- Writing a school paper
- Playing simple games, chess, maybe some online 2d/isometric stratgy/RPG

If the battery would last 7 hours that would be great.

If it had a fuel cell and could run off a portable liquid such as methanol, that would be even better.

If the screen was EASILY readable in direct sunlight, that would be awesome.

If the screen was flexible and crack resistant, that would be even better.

If it was waterproof/crumb/food proof, that would be super.

It shouldn't have a hard drive (use SSD)

The screen should also be covered in an invisible nano-fiber sound producing coating.

And, the best possilbe feature, which, I don't think can be done yet, would be a tiny built in video projector that could make a 30" or larger bright screen viewable in normal light :p That last feature might be the one totally unrealistic one...
 
Posted my initial impressions awhile back... they match my satisfaction today. I own the Acer Aspire One (3-cell battery 120GB XP Home) and it works great for anything but heavy 3d games, rendering, etc. on the go. Really, it's fine for general use even unless I'm coding or playing. I bought the netbook about three months ago. They're not "fads" any more than notebooks in general are ;).


GoldenTiger on August 24th said:
Got it for $250+tax today, like it a lot. The keyboard has a great tactile response, not mushy but not too springy/firm either. It's like typing on a normal laptop keyboard other than the slightly condensed size. I have no trouble with the keys themselves, just that the row spacing is a little tighter vertically than on a desktop keyboard. It's something I'll get used to quickly and already was within an hour's use earlier today.

As far as the touchpad, I don't see why anyone's complaining about it. It's smooth with a little resistance, feels perfect like any other touchpad pretty much. I set the scroll areas down a little and with max. mouse sensitivity it works perfectly.

Performance is impressive under the XP Home configuration it came with. I uninstalled a couple of junkware trials like an Office on and McAffee, put on my own things like Avast and Spybot. The system is snappy and quick to load things, runs very cool even when it's at full load with the fan spun up (which even at its maximum speed is pretty quiet).

The only thing that threw me off was how small it really was, primarily for the screen. I had never seen one prior to this, and while I wouldn't mind a 10" screen instead of 9" like this has, I love the size and light weight. It's an amazing little unit, and with the 1024x600 resolution offers enough horizontal space for web sites and other stuff, with enough vertical to not feel squished.

I haven't tested battery life yet.

I really couldn't be happier with this thing... it's really the epitome of the netbook: INCREDIBLY light (you'll be amazed when you hold it!), very small/portable, bright screen with standard notebook quality, a good keyboard with plenty of travel on the keys (i.e. they press down rather than just being almost like tapping on plastic), and finally specs to give some speed for general use (1.6ghz Atom with hyperthreading and 1GB RAM). If you're on the fence, buy it for $250 and don't open it... but you won't be disappointed if you do :)!

I typed this post on it in around a minute and a half, FYI :).
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gibber - Many of those features are already available.
An Atom-based netbook with a 6-cell battery should run for at least five hours. Normal laptop screens are also hard to read in sunlight, it's not a problem unique to netbooks.. I don't like glossy screens but they seem popular for some reason. The keyboard of the AAO is 89% of full size, the MSI Wind is supposed to feature an even better keyboard.

I agree that netbooks need to be made more rugged and scratch, smudge, water, fire etc. resistant :p My AAO is a fingerprint magnet :( It should have come with a lint free cloth as a standard accessory... I love the design of it, though. Much less toy-like than the EeePC.

BTW, I'm typing this on my Aspire One while sitting on the toilet :eek: I've got 10 firefox tabs, Live Mail, Messenger, OpenOffice Writer open, and WinAmp playing a shoutcast stream over the WiFi. Quite an upgrade over the old books and crap magazines that used to pass for toilet reading :)
 
The local microcenter here has an Acer Aspire One sitting right next to an MSI wind. Keyboards between the two are comparable, both of the *dramatically* superior to the asus 70x series. If the MSI's is any better I couldn't tell offhand. I'd really love to have a linux based dual core atom acer aspire one. I like to code and also sometimes watch hulu.

My wife has an earlier "almost netbook", a compaq evo n410c (12" p3 1.2GHz, no optical drive). I'd like something a bit faster than this.
 
Director of notebook product marketing Bahr Mahony offered his own insight, saying “people that are not satisfied with the experience they’re getting on these mininotebook platforms.”
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Who are these people? I've owned a EeePC 701 and I now own a EeePC 1000H. I honestly don't have any gripes about the new model. I would classify the 1000H as the perfect notebook/netbook.

Those who buy it and are not satisfied do not understand the purpose and/or are just plain nuts.
 
Everyone has different expectations and uses for their notebooks. Sometimes, the netbook does not fit those expectations, however unrealistic they may be, and people end up being unhappy with their purchase.

I find it odd how people compare low end laptops like the OLPC and cheap 15.4" consumer laptops to the netbooks. They aren't even in the same class of devices. The OLPC may cost less and have a higher resolution screen, but it also runs a slower processor, lacks memory, HD space, and has a physically smaller screen. 15.4" laptops are bigger and heavier and geared more toward DTR purposes. In general, the 2-3lbs of extra weight is double the weight of the netbook so they are nowhere near being "almost as light." In the end, netbooks are intended as companions, either to a main laptop or a desktop. They're not intended to run CPU intensive programs (though that may change in the future).

I just don't get it when people are like... OMG its so much slower than my 17" laptop and the screen is so small and the keyboard is so small omgwtfbbq. :p
 
A lot of families only have one computer, so a netbook is a perfect addition. Homework practically requires a computer nowadays. It's cheap and it's got plenty of power for kids to do homework on. Plus it's portable.

I could see the market being very strong - especially as the economy makes people think twice about dumping a bunch of $$ on a desktop or laptop.
 
Netbooks are truly a waste of money IMHO. For only a little more you can get a fully functional laptop that can do everything and does not weigh a whole lot more.
 
a2vr6 said:
Netbooks are truly a waste of money IMHO. For only a little more you can get a fully functional laptop that can do everything and does not weigh a whole lot more.
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Please list a program that your bargain bin laptop can run that my eeePC cannot. As for not weighing a whole lot more? Show me a bargain bin PC that doesnt weigh at LEAST 50% more than an eeePC with 3+hours of battery life.
 
Furystrike said:
Please list a program that your bargain bin laptop can run that my eeePC cannot. As for not weighing a whole lot more? Show me a bargain bin PC that doesnt weigh at LEAST 50% more than an eeePC with 3+hours of battery life.
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It can insert a CD.
 
SixtyWattMan said:
It can insert a CD.
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Owned :p

Too be fair he's right. Outside of serious gaming, photoshop, or video editing these netbooks can run just about anything. Not having a CD drive can be a problem in some situations, although I haven't used CDs for software for a few years now. I make disk images and store them on my file server.
 
Furystrike said:
Please list a program that your bargain bin laptop can run that my eeePC cannot. As for not weighing a whole lot more? Show me a bargain bin PC that doesnt weigh at LEAST 50% more than an eeePC with 3+hours of battery life.
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QFT... i suspect Furystrike's challenge will go unbeaten aside from some (lame) mention of limited gaming
 
I bought a slim DVD drive off ebay for $50 and it fits in my DVD player style case very nicely. I only use it for reinstalls, everything else can be downloaded.

If all else fails share a DVD drive on the network and the problem is solved cheaply.
 
AMD still can't get performance per watt anywhere close to Intel in their regular notebook CPUs, what point is there trying to beat them with CPUs that are even more critical as far as heat and power consumptions goes? They're better off trying to get on their feet instead of trying to compete with Intel in what is still a relatively marginal space.
 
fuelvolts said:
I agree with AMD. The netbooks phenomenon will end. I've used them before and don't see what the advantage is besides the price. But for a few hundred dollars more, you could get a much fast 14.1" widescreen notebook that is MUCH faster and almost as light.
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its not how light


its the size.
 
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