AMD gaining market share against Nvidia

Gideon

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Looks like AMD's graphic division is doing better then most think.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/06/13/amd-takes-nvidia-by-storm-but-can-it-keep-up-pace.aspx

Advanced Micro Devices (NASDAQ:AMD) has been chipping away at arch-rival NVIDIA's (NASDAQ:NVDA) discrete graphics card market share for a few years now, and did it once again in the first quarter of 2020, according to the latest numbers from Jon Peddie Research.

Jon Peddie Research's latest discrete graphics processing unit (GPU) report reveals that AMD was sitting on nearly 31% of the market in the first quarter of 2020. That was a nice jump from the prior-year period's market share of nearly 22.7%, which means that NVIDIA has lost substantial ground to its smaller rival.
 

T4rd

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Well they've had the best value budget cards for at least a few years with the RX 570/580 now, so not too surprising. I got my son an 8GB 570 for his PC almost 2 years ago for like $160 at the time and it still plays anything at med-high IQ at 1080p/60. You can get those cards now for around $100, which Nvidia still can't beat.
 

kirbyrj

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The problem with the article is that it doesn't know what it's talking about. Here's a quote:

A smaller manufacturing node means that the transistors on the chip are smaller and are packed closely together. This leads to a jump in the compute capacity of the chip, reduces power consumption, and lowers manufacturing costs because of a smaller die size.

Closer transistors lead to a jump in the compute capacity? Yes, it reduces power consumption, but it's only compared to it's own previous processes. Nvidia has better power consumption (or at least equivalent depending on the card) with a larger process. The architecture has a more direct correlation to power consumption than the process by itself. And lowering manufacturing cost might be true at some level, but the R&D cost is significantly higher.

I would think that the bulk of their marketshare comes from old Polaris cards still in service like T4rd anecdotally noted. Probably half the cards my family has in service here are Polaris.

And I'm not sure where Jon Peddie Research gets this 31% number from. Motley Fool just quotes it like the number means something, but without context of how it is calculated it's as good as a Steam Hardware Survey.
 

Gideon

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The problem with the article is that it doesn't know what it's talking about. Here's a quote:



Closer transistors lead to a jump in the compute capacity? Yes, it reduces power consumption, but it's only compared to it's own previous processes. Nvidia has better power consumption (or at least equivalent depending on the card) with a larger process. The architecture has a more direct correlation to power consumption than the process by itself. And lowering manufacturing cost might be true at some level, but the R&D cost is significantly higher.

I would think that the bulk of their marketshare comes from old Polaris cards still in service like T4rd anecdotally noted. Probably half the cards my family has in service here are Polaris.

And I'm not sure where Jon Peddie Research gets this 31% number from. Motley Fool just quotes it like the number means something, but without context of how it is calculated it's as good as a Steam Hardware Survey.

Jon Peddie is the main source all analyst go by for info on market share, big chunk of it is behind paywalls if you want the latest info. https://www.jonpeddie.com/news/amd-shipped-a-lot-of-gpus
https://www.jonpeddie.com/press-rel...reased-year-to-year-in-q120-led-by-amd-report
 

reaper12

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So in the last two years they managed to claw back about 10% market share. That's despite all the backlash (supposed or otherwise) against Nvidia for the terrible price of Turing cards and how bad and unwanted Ray Tracing and DLSS are.

I mean Nvidia basically couldn't have done much worse over the last two years,

High Price,
Little or no Price Reduction on the massive amount of Pascal stock left over after the mining boom,
Features not ready at launch, Ray Tracing only getting traction now and they only got DLSS working properly in late March this year,
Low stocks at launch,
space invaders,
Releasing the 2060 super so soon after the 2060.

I am sure there are things I missed, but you get my point.

If AMD can only win back 10% of Market share in the last two years, how will they even maintain that never mind increase it, if Ampere is in anyway decent?
 

Derangel

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So in the last two years they managed to claw back about 10% market share. That's despite all the backlash (supposed or otherwise) against Nvidia for the terrible price of Turing cards and how bad and unwanted Ray Tracing and DLSS are.

I mean Nvidia basically couldn't have done much worse over the last two years,

High Price,
Little or no Price Reduction on the massive amount of Pascal stock left over after the mining boom,
Features not ready at launch, Ray Tracing only getting traction now and they only got DLSS working properly in late March this year,
Low stocks at launch,
space invaders,
Releasing the 2060 super so soon after the 2060.

I am sure there are things I missed, but you get my point.

If AMD can only win back 10% of Market share in the last two years, how will they even maintain that never mind increase it, if Ampere is in anyway decent?

10% over the course of a couple years is a massive change.
 

d3athf1sh

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If AMD can only win back 10% of Market share in the last two years, how will they even maintain that never mind increase it, if Ampere is in anyway decent?

well for starters getting their gpu's in every iteration of the "next-gen" console..?
 

learners permit

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What other viable options did consoles have that wouldn't put pricing out of reach for casual console gamers? I'm gonna buy a series x for my first ever console to entertain friends when they come over.
 

Dan_D

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This isn't surprising. AMD has been doing well in the mid-range for quite some time. This is the range where most of the money is made. Very few people buy halo level cards like the RTX 2080 Ti, RTX Titan, 3080, 3090, etc.
 

reaper12

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You mean, "in the last two years they increased their market share by 50%"? :)

And in one quarter they lost it all, they are now back at 20% which is 12% lower than what they had back when I wrote the post you quoted.

10% over the course of a couple years is a massive change.

What would you call losing 12% in a quarter?
 

Accursed

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.... Very few people buy halo level cards like the RTX 2080 Ti, RTX Titan, 3080, 3090, etc.
Is that true for the 3080? It has to be one of the more successful launches in recent memory. Something like only 10% of demand is being met.
 

Dan_D

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Is that true for the 3080? It has to be one of the more successful launches in recent memory. Something like only 10% of demand is being met.

Compared to the midrange, probably. However, for a higher end card it should be very successful. I don't think we have actual sales figures, but the demand does seem high. I think that's in large part due to two things. 1.) The 20 series didn't sell all that well as it was a minimal upgrade from the 10 series. As a result of that, many people have gone a very long time without an upgrade. 2.) The price point is very aggressive. Effectively, the RTX 3080 is occupying what was kind of an upper mid-range price point for the 20 series.
 

GoodBoy

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And in one quarter they lost it all, they are now back at 20% which is 12% lower than what they had back when I wrote the post you quoted.



What would you call losing 12% in a quarter?

If you are correct (I haven't bothered researching any numbers) then it's far more likely that the article in the OP was incorrect/false, and that the market share hasn't significantly changed at all...
 

Accursed

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I don't think we have actual sales figures, but the demand does seem high.
10% figure in my head came from this article, I would guess it indicative for most of the market. https://videocardz.com/newz/danish-retailer-fulfiled-only-10-of-geforce-rtx-3080-preorders

And agree with you, that the 20 series cards offered new tech and not much performance increase at what seemed like an obsurdly high price. I kept my 1080ti until I received my 3080 FE, a proper upgrade at a very reasonable and equivalent price point.
 

Dan_D

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10% figure in my head came from this article, I would guess it indicative for most of the market. https://videocardz.com/newz/danish-retailer-fulfiled-only-10-of-geforce-rtx-3080-preorders

And agree with you, that the 20 series cards offered new tech and not much performance increase at what seemed like an obsurdly high price. I kept my 1080ti until I received my 3080 FE, a proper upgrade at a very reasonable and equivalent price point.

As I understand it, that's not really the best source. However, even if the information in that article is correct it doesn't necessarily mean we can equate those sales numbers to the North American market.
 

1_rick

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If you are correct (I haven't bothered researching any numbers) then it's far more likely that the article in the OP was incorrect/false, and that the market share hasn't significantly changed at all...

In hindsight that does seem more likely than they had a short-term spike.
 

reaper12

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If you are correct (I haven't bothered researching any numbers) then it's far more likely that the article in the OP was incorrect/false, and that the market share hasn't significantly changed at all...

Both sets of data come from Jon Peddie Research. They release the market share at the end of every Quarter. The latest is from Quarter 2 where AMD has 20% of the discrete market share.

No incorrect or false info.
 

Dan_D

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😁literally every person here, mate..😂👍

Actually, there are a lot of readers here who do not buy cards like that. Because this is a computing / gaming enthusiast forum, its not surprising that such a demographic would congregate here and the percentage of people who do buy halo cards would be much higher among the user base. I've had talks with companies like MSI and ASUS many times over the years. They always say the same thing. The mid-range is their bread and butter. It's where the most sales happen. It's the market were the profits are all made. I have never received specific figures on the halo cards, but I've been told they account for only a small percentage of total sales. If you look at the Steam hardware survey, that seems to hold true as the RTX 2080 Ti was basically non-existent on the list.

The most popular card by a long shot was the GeForce GTX 1060. This was followed by the 1050 and 1050 Ti. However, the vast majority of the forum members here probably have upper midrange cards. 1070's, etc. It's the same thing when you look at CPU's. Head to Microcenter and they sell the crap out of the AMD Ryzen CPU's. Look at the Steam hardware survey and AMD CPU's make up only 22.45% of the total used. If you look at the total core count of systems in the survey, quad cores still dominate the landscape. That means, it's not Ryzen 3000 series CPU's that make up the bulk of AMD CPU's in the survey. Intel, despite their stagnate products makes up over 77% of total CPU's in the survey. Why? Because the vast majority of gamers aren't necessarily hardware enthusiasts.
 

Lakados

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Actually, there are a lot of readers here who do not buy cards like that. Because this is a computing / gaming enthusiast forum, its not surprising that such a demographic would congregate here and the percentage of people who do buy halo cards would be much higher among the user base. I've had talks with companies like MSI and ASUS many times over the years. They always say the same thing. The mid-range is their bread and butter. It's where the most sales happen. It's the market were the profits are all made. I have never received specific figures on the halo cards, but I've been told they account for only a small percentage of total sales. If you look at the Steam hardware survey, that seems to hold true as the RTX 2080 Ti was basically non-existent on the list.

The most popular card by a long shot was the GeForce GTX 1060. This was followed by the 1050 and 1050 Ti. However, the vast majority of the forum members here probably have upper midrange cards. 1070's, etc. It's the same thing when you look at CPU's. Head to Microcenter and they sell the crap out of the AMD Ryzen CPU's. Look at the Steam hardware survey and AMD CPU's make up only 22.45% of the total used. If you look at the total core count of systems in the survey, quad cores still dominate the landscape. That means, it's not Ryzen 3000 series CPU's that make up the bulk of AMD CPU's in the survey. Intel, despite their stagnate products makes up over 77% of total CPU's in the survey. Why? Because the vast majority of gamers aren't necessarily hardware enthusiasts.
Yeah, the vast majority of PC sales are from OEM's and Intel can mostly meet their supply where AMD to date hasn't really even attempted to keep up, and really for most the differences between AMD and Intel gets lost in the wash as very rarely do their systems ever push above 70% utilization, and then it's usually doing something mundane like updates or software installs so nothing they are going to notice. So when Intel recently said their Benchmarks don't matter stuff they weren't entirely wrong because Ian in accounting doesn't care if what hardware it's running as long as it is running and it was delivered before the end of year cutoff.
 

UltraTaco

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Thank you, Dan_D for
My apologies; after spending unhealthy hours among the best, taco forget there are regular Joes nd Janes out there too. I'm regular btw :)
 

Dan_D

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Yeah, the vast majority of PC sales are from OEM's and Intel can mostly meet their supply where AMD to date hasn't really even attempted to keep up, and really for most the differences between AMD and Intel gets lost in the wash as very rarely do their systems ever push above 70% utilization, and then it's usually doing something mundane like updates or software installs so nothing they are going to notice. So when Intel recently said their Benchmarks don't matter stuff they weren't entirely wrong because Ian in accounting doesn't care if what hardware it's running as long as it is running and it was delivered before the end of year cutoff.

Most people here are DIY'ers who build our own machines. It's easy to forget that most gamers buy OEM machines for gaming. OEMs have large pre-existing contracts with Intel. Let's also not forget that even though Ryzen sales are growing, they still can't meet the supply demands that OEMs have.
 

Lakados

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Most people here are DIY'ers who build our own machines. It's easy to forget that most gamers buy OEM machines for gaming. OEMs have large pre-existing contracts with Intel. Let's also not forget that even though Ryzen sales are growing, they still can't meet the supply demands that OEMs have.
Yeah I mean I love building my own PC's but at some point I just want it to work, and I am getting too old to want to tinker, I get home from a too long of a day and I just want it to work. So the not quite "lazy" part of me but the "too tired to deal with this shit" part of me is very tempted by the OEM gaming systems. But 100% of me is currently over and done with Corsair they have f'ed me for the last time, two faulty PSU's in a row, and all those extra wires for RGB that I no longer care about, done. I want my gaming rig in a boring beige box, gotta see if I can find me one of those old dell cases from the 90's.
 

chameleoneel

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I bought my RTX 2060 used, here, for a very good price. Before Navi released.

otherwise, I wouldn't have bought Turing.
 

odditory

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It's the market were the profits are all made. I have never received specific figures on the halo cards, but I've been told they account for only a small percentage of total sales. If you look at the Steam hardware survey, that seems to hold true as the RTX 2080 Ti was basically non-existent on the list.

Don't underestimate the Halo Effect. Halo products, and a brand developing a reputation for always having Halo products - the best or fastest of something - has an effect that trickles down the entire product stack, and influences buying decisions at every level. It's hard to measure in absolute numbers, but absolutely exists.
 
Last edited:

Meeho

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Is that true for the 3080? It has to be one of the more successful launches in recent memory. Something like only 10% of demand is being met.
LOL, this is some next level assessment of the Ampere launch.
 

Dan_D

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Don't underestimate the Halo Effect. Halo products, and a brand developing a reputation for always having Halo products - the best or fastest of something - has an effect that trickles down the entire product stack, and influences buying decisions at every level. It's hard to measure in absolute numbers, but absolutely exists.

I'm not saying that it doesn't. I've argued this many times for many products in many threads. However, these products aren't actually purchased by the vast majority of the market.
 

Ready4Dis

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Actually, there are a lot of readers here who do not buy cards like that. Because this is a computing / gaming enthusiast forum, its not surprising that such a demographic would congregate here and the percentage of people who do buy halo cards would be much higher among the user base. I've had talks with companies like MSI and ASUS many times over the years. They always say the same thing. The mid-range is their bread and butter. It's where the most sales happen. It's the market were the profits are all made. I have never received specific figures on the halo cards, but I've been told they account for only a small percentage of total sales. If you look at the Steam hardware survey, that seems to hold true as the RTX 2080 Ti was basically non-existent on the list.

The most popular card by a long shot was the GeForce GTX 1060. This was followed by the 1050 and 1050 Ti. However, the vast majority of the forum members here probably have upper midrange cards. 1070's, etc. It's the same thing when you look at CPU's. Head to Microcenter and they sell the crap out of the AMD Ryzen CPU's. Look at the Steam hardware survey and AMD CPU's make up only 22.45% of the total used. If you look at the total core count of systems in the survey, quad cores still dominate the landscape. That means, it's not Ryzen 3000 series CPU's that make up the bulk of AMD CPU's in the survey. Intel, despite their stagnate products makes up over 77% of total CPU's in the survey. Why? Because the vast majority of gamers aren't necessarily hardware enthusiasts.

I think you're a bit out of date, they are up to 25% now in Steam... and that also counts all the people still running around on 3rd/4th gen Intel chips, so in order to make 25%, they probably have to outsell Intel by a bit more than this.


388839_1602278935671.png
https://hexus.net/business/news/com...are-25-per-cent-latest-steam-hardware-survey/
 

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GoodBoy

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Both sets of data come from Jon Peddie Research. They release the market share at the end of every Quarter. The latest is from Quarter 2 where AMD has 20% of the discrete market share.

No incorrect or false info.
The only way those numbers make sense is if they are sales numbers for the quarter.

Quarterly Sales numbers are not Market share.

Market share is installed units, and a reflection of sales over time. Quarterly sales are quarterly sales.

mar·ket share
/ˈmärkət ˌSHe(ə)r/

noun

  1. the portion of a market controlled by a particular company or product.
    "a leading Internet service provider with a 15 percent market share"
 

reaper12

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The only way those numbers make sense is if they are sales numbers for the quarter.

Quarterly Sales numbers are not Market share.

Market share is installed units, and a reflection of sales over time. Quarterly sales are quarterly sales.

mar·ket share
/ˈmärkət ˌSHe(ə)r/

noun

  1. the portion of a market controlled by a particular company or product.
    "a leading Internet service provider with a 15 percent market share"

No, they are Market share figures, If you go to site you will see. It shows Market share at the end of each quarter along with the quarterly sales.

They have been the goto data for Marketshare in GPUs since forever.

Here is the direct link

https://www.jonpeddie.com/press-releases/pandemic-distorts-global-gpu-market-results

Scroll down to the discrete GPU section.
 

c3k

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Compared to the midrange, probably. However, for a higher end card it should be very successful. I don't think we have actual sales figures, but the demand does seem high. I think that's in large part due to two things. 1.) The 20 series didn't sell all that well as it was a minimal upgrade from the 10 series. As a result of that, many people have gone a very long time without an upgrade. 2.) The price point is very aggressive. Effectively, the RTX 3080 is occupying what was kind of an upper mid-range price point for the 20 series.

My bold and enlarging. Check my sig. I am DESPERATE for a new card...that I find appealing. ;) Nvidia has pissed me off with their pricing. I tossed some "filler" cards from AMD into my rigs. Now? Well, the Nvidia 3000 series launch fiasco, coupled with the lack of improvement in perf/watt/dollar makes me continue to wait. I'll see if Big Navi brings what I need to the table. I'm looking for 2 or 3 GPUs. No, I'm not going to spend over a grand for a video card.

That, as Dan said, puts me squarely in the "upper mid-range" category. ;)
 

legcramp

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I'm not saying that it doesn't. I've argued this many times for many products in many threads. However, these products aren't actually purchased by the vast majority of the market.

Yup... I know a lot of gamers, none of them buys anything above an nvidia mid-range card and I know they have money so...
 

kamikazi

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Didn't Kyle say he has it on good authority that only 8000 3080s were available in the US. That is not going to change market share a bit.
 

bigdogchris

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Jim AdoredTV went back and looked at reviews for the past decade and found the 30 series is actually one of the lowest generation over generation leaps, contrary to what Nvidia says.

Point is, if AMD's new GPU's are equivalent to the 3080, Nvidia's lack of real progress over the past few years has allowed AMD to catch up. AMD always seemed like it was 1 year behind -until now.

 

GoodBoy

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Looks like AMD's graphic division is doing better then most think.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/06/13/amd-takes-nvidia-by-storm-but-can-it-keep-up-pace.aspx

Advanced Micro Devices (NASDAQ:AMD) has been chipping away at arch-rival NVIDIA's (NASDAQ:NVDA) discrete graphics card market share for a few years now, and did it once again in the first quarter of 2020, according to the latest numbers from Jon Peddie Research.

Jon Peddie Research's latest discrete graphics processing unit (GPU) report reveals that AMD was sitting on nearly 31% of the market in the first quarter of 2020. That was a nice jump from the prior-year period's market share of nearly 22.7%, which means that NVIDIA has lost substantial ground to its smaller rival.

The only way those numbers make sense is if they are sales numbers for the quarter.

Quarterly Sales numbers are not Market share.

Market share is installed units, and a reflection of sales over time. Quarterly sales are quarterly sales.

mar·ket share
/ˈmärkət ˌSHe(ə)r/

noun

  1. the portion of a market controlled by a particular company or product.
    "a leading Internet service provider with a 15 percent market share"

No, they are Market share figures, If you go to site you will see. It shows Market share at the end of each quarter along with the quarterly sales.

They have been the goto data for Marketshare in GPUs since forever.

Here is the direct link

https://www.jonpeddie.com/press-releases/pandemic-distorts-global-gpu-market-results

Scroll down to the discrete GPU section.

Market share doesn't change up 10% one quarter and drop 10% the next... the installed base of dGPU is about 550 million. Gaining 10% market share in 3 months would mean you sold 55 million units more than you competitor in a 3 month span. Nope. Not likely. The gaming dGPU market only grew by about 60 million dGPU's in the last entire year. More than 10% of the market would have to be buying new dGPU's every quarter for that to be possible.

Please, someone correct my math if I am wrong.

The article has this to say about sales numbers for the quarter:


Quick highlights

  • AMD’s overall unit shipments increased by 8.4% quarter-to-quarter, Intel’s total shipments decreased by -2.7% from last quarter, and Nvidia’s increased by 17.8%.
I think whoever wrote the fool.com article, might need to go re-read the john peddle research.. The quote in the OP says AMD has 31% dGPU market share in Q1'2020, but the John Peddle article graph shows 25%: (middle bar)



PR-MW-Q2-20-003.png


Q2 2019, AMD has 29%, nvidia 71%
Q2 2020, AMD has 20%, nvidia 80%

From this pattern, it seems likely that the article author saw a Q1'19 chart and it would be believable that it would read 31% for AMD. But it has been on a decline and now sits at 20%.

Thing to keep in mind is that the market grew, the overall market (~60 million more dGPU's in use in 2020 vs 2019). So even though AMD lost share, they are experiencing sales growth (increased shipments 8.4% year over year). Either way, it's even better news for nvidia.

The fool article is probably spin to entice investors.
 

reaper12

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Market share doesn't change up 10% one quarter and drop 10% the next... the installed base of dGPU is about 550 million. Gaining 10% market share in 3 months would mean you sold 55 million units more than you competitor in a 3 month span. Nope. Not likely. The gaming dGPU market only grew by about 60 million dGPU's in the last entire year. More than 10% of the market would have to be buying new dGPU's every quarter for that to be possible.

Please, someone correct my math if I am wrong.

The article has this to say about sales numbers for the quarter:





I think whoever wrote the fool.com article, might need to go re-read the john peddle research.. The quote in the OP says AMD has 31% dGPU market share in Q1'2020, but the John Peddle article graph shows 25%: (middle bar)



View attachment 288183

Q2 2019, AMD has 29%, nvidia 71%
Q2 2020, AMD has 20%, nvidia 80%

From this pattern, it seems likely that the article author saw a Q1'19 chart and it would be believable that it would read 31% for AMD. But it has been on a decline and now sits at 20%.

Thing to keep in mind is that the market grew, the overall market (~60 million more dGPU's in use in 2020 vs 2019). So even though AMD lost share, they are experiencing sales growth (increased shipments 8.4% year over year). Either way, it's even better news for nvidia.

The fool article is probably spin to entice investors.

I don't know what is happening with that last graph. The info in the graph for Q2'19 an Q1'20 doesn't match up with the actual reports from Jon Peddie Research.

Here is the actual Q2'19 report

https://www.jonpeddie.com/press-rel...eases-its-q2-2019-global-add-in-board-report/

As you can see AMD were at 32% not 29%

Here is the actual Q1'20 report

https://www.jonpeddie.com/press-rel...reased-year-to-year-in-q120-led-by-amd-report

And again, AMD are 31% not 25% as the graph shows.

All I can think of is that the Reports are released a lot later than the press releases, so maybe the press releases are estimates based on a small number of sources and the reports are more accurate.
 
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