AMD - drop the price on the 7970 neeeow

Rizen

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7970 is stil better imo than GTX 680.

7970 gains more from OC than 680 and probably higher % of good bins vs bad bins.
7970 has better electrical design IMO.
7970 has excellent performance across all games, 680 chokes hard on a few.
7970 capable of higher quality GFX than 680 due to Alpha sharpen/better -lod/Temporal AA.
7970 has better video playback....don't argue...look it up.
7970 in general performs better in crossfire (better scaling)
7970 performs better in openGL
7970 is better for compute
7970 stable frequency/power draw prevents too big/too little a power supply(saving $/problems)
AMD/ATI has a better tweak program for obscure settings. (ATT)

no way in hell I'd switch to NV.
1) My 680s are at @ 1.3GHz. I don't think they are binned poorly.
2) Maybe, but who cares? It's the end performance that matters, serious LN2 coolers will mod the cards anyways.
3) Not that I've seen. In the games the 680 does poorly in, the gap isn't that great, and the 680 wins in other games, sometimes by a lot.
4) Correct me if I am wrong but AMD still doesn't have a way of forcing AA in deferred rendering titles, do they? NVIDIA has FXAA in the drivers, and NVIDIA Inspector enables way more AA support than anything I saw when I had AMD cards, including RadeonPro.
5) Maybe, but I don't use this card for my media PC, I use it for gaming. My 6450 works better for HTPC.
6) Not that I've seen on places like [H].
7) AMD has terrible OpenGL drivers though, unless they finally fixed D3 engine and Q3 engine games. I can't name a newer game that runs in OpenGL except Rage, and that ran like garbage on AMD cards at launch.
8) Yes.
9) .... what?
10) NVIDIA Inspector is the best tweak program I have used.

I'm sorry, I think the 7970s are great cards, but I needed to upgrade to a 2-card solution to beat my 580s in performance, and the 7970 CFX driver situation, at least from what I read on the forums, is pretty awful. I haven't had a single problem with SLI GTX680s yet, in Witcher 2, Mass Effect 3, Battlefield 3, etc. And they overclock very easily as well.
 

heatlesssun

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7970 has excellent performance across all games, 680 chokes hard on a few.

How do you know that the 7970 has excellent performance in ALL games? Not only that there's a number of games where the 7970 doesn't do all that great either. In any case it makes little sense to say that the 7970 has better overall performance than the 680, at least at stock clocks.

7970 stable frequency/power draw prevents too big/too little a power supply(saving $/problems)

You can't be serious about this can you?

no way in hell I'd switch to NV.

Then don't. Enjoy your 7970. And you don't need to make up these claims, some which make no sense to do that.
 

chimera991

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Their drivers, lack of game support, and bugs with Eyefinity finally forced me into dumping them and getting a GTX 570 (and for that matter giving up Eyefinity until I either go SLI or get a GTX 680). The drivers might be fine for YOU, but that doesn't mean they are fine for everyone. Try reading a few more threads in this forum about [H]'ers having driver trouble. Last I checked it took AMD what...three months...just to get WHQL drivers for the 7900 series? nVidia had Kepler driver support on day ONE.

I've no interest in buying any AMD cards, not after what I went through. But I do have an interest in seeing a price war!
Agreed, I bought a MSI R6950 twin frozr II 2gb (can OC to 6970 specs, although ran it STOCK) and would crash big time during FO: NV. I sold the card and went back to green. Never looking back!

I'm happy with my 580 3gb. Going to upgrade to what ever comes after kepler.
 

Bullet500

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Apr 3, 2011
Messages
45
All video drivers have bugs, that's not really the point. The issue is two fold, driver support for games and and overall stability and function. While we can go back and forth over stability it's much more difficult case to make that AMD driver support for games is better than nVidia's. For example, if you compare launch day drivers for the 680 and the 7970 it's a pretty big difference.
I'll completely agree on the launch day drivers part.

But for games, both companies come up with bloopers time to time. AMD more so, one can argue.
 

heatlesssun

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I'll completely agree on the launch day drivers part.

But for games, both companies come up with bloopers time to time. AMD more so, one can argue.

I'm not talking about perfection here, both companies make their mistakes but there's just no way that AMD has better, more consistent and timely driver support for games than nVidia.
 

Bullet500

n00b
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Apr 3, 2011
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I'm not talking about perfection here, both companies make their mistakes but there's just no way that AMD has better, more consistent and timely driver support for games than nVidia.
yup. I agreed on it. AMD comes up with more bloopers. :)

But my next card might still be an AMD one. Viewport issues in nVidia and AMD is much faster at brute-forcing hashes. I'd be on nVidia if gaming was my only priority. It's a top priority, but not the only.
 

ZoNe

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Does anyone think OpenGL stands for Open Gay Lesbian? Every time I see OpenGL I do, Let me explain. I paint cars at my dads shop as well as do/did all computer support, and we got this guy friday who is a bit effeminate, anyways I left default winxp screen saver one time (openGL) on his computer and he came up to me after work and was like "ZoNe I had no idea your knew" I was like WTF you talking about? Then he came out.
 
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R3MF

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Does anyone think OpenGL stands for Open Gay Lesbian? Every time I see OpenGL I do, Let me explain. I paint cars at my dads shop as well as do/did all computer support, and we got this guy friday who is a bit effeminate, anyways I left default winxp screen saver one time (openGL) on his computer and he came up to me after work and was like "ZoNe I had no idea your knew" I was like WTF you talking about? Then he came out.

no.
 

Viper87227

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You know, this whole AMD drivers are the devil BS needs to stop. Especially when it comes from people who don't own a Radeon card in the first place! The truth is, the drivers are FINE.

The driver debate will never die... but there is no doubt some truth to it for some. I am one of them. I've probably owned more ATI/AMD cards over the years than Nvidia, so you can't say I'm biased. I had a 4890 and loved it. I ungraded to a 5850 and loved that card too. Then I bought a second one... and that's when all the driver problems came out. Flash would always crash my system until I disabled hardware AC. My monitors would constantly flicker if I left the cards to handle their own 2D clocks, as one of them would clock way to low. So, I had to run my car at 3D clocks non-stop (YAY POWER BILL!). Overclocking was a pain in the ass (shit like having to disable ULPS to use a 3rd party program). All of these problems existed across multiple OS installs, and were well documented online. They weren't isolated issues. This, in turn with AMD seeming to often be behind the ball with crossfire profiles just drove me crazy. I moved to a pair of 560 Ti's, and honestly, I can't tell you a single bug I've encountered. The transition has been great, and I'll probably be buying Nvidia hardware for a long time because of it. Nothing fanboy about it, I'm buying what works best for me based purely off my personal experience with AMD drivers. I've always maintained that their hardware is excellent, and in a single card solution, a lot of people will probably have 0 issues with their drivers either. But with two cards, things just don't work as well, and that's enough for me to stay away. I like the option of tossing in a second video card down the road as an upgrade path, and I've built a system around that.
 

magoo

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It's funny to see the chest thumping and "my card can beat your card up" everytime something new is released.:eek:
 

Viper87227

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Jun 2, 2004
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It's funny to see the chest thumping and "my card can beat your card up" everytime something new is released.:eek:

Some things never change :p. I don't get why everyone cares so much. If you have brand loyalty, stick to your brand and be on your way. If yon don't, then look at the hard numbers and buy whatever gives the best performance in the games you play for the price you want to pay. I don't give a damn if someone's AMD card outperforms my Nvidia card. I feel like I get a better overall experience with Nvidia, and that holds value to me that may not be true for anyone else.
 

yanmeng

Weaksauce
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
121
7970 is stil better imo than GTX 680.

7970 gains more from OC than 680 and probably higher % of good bins vs bad bins.
7970 has better electrical design IMO.
7970 has excellent performance across all games, 680 chokes hard on a few.
7970 capable of higher quality GFX than 680 due to Alpha sharpen/better -lod/Temporal AA.
7970 has better video playback....don't argue...look it up.
7970 in general performs better in crossfire (better scaling)
7970 performs better in openGL
7970 is better for compute
7970 stable frequency/power draw prevents too big/too little a power supply(saving $/problems)
AMD/ATI has a better tweak program for obscure settings. (ATT)

no way in hell I'd switch to NV.

Seriously, what kind of weed were you smoking? I want a lot of that too!
 

Eisenblut

[H]ard|Gawd
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Messages
1,108
You know, this whole AMD drivers are the devil BS needs to stop. Especially when it comes from people who don't own a Radeon card in the first place! The truth is, the drivers are FINE.
I have owned AMD and Nvidia over the years going back to the GeForce 2 and the 9700 Pro. My experience is that AMD drivers can in no way match Nvidia's. Not even close.
 

silent-circuit

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Messages
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Agreed, I bought a MSI R6950 twin frozr II 2gb (can OC to 6970 specs, although ran it STOCK) and would crash big time during FO: NV. I sold the card and went back to green. Never looking back!

I'm happy with my 580 3gb. Going to upgrade to what ever comes after kepler.

Never had any crashes in New Vegas that weren't caused by New Vegas itself, so not sure what you're getting at here. Didn't have any issues with CrossfireX with New Vegas either.

I have owned AMD and Nvidia over the years going back to the GeForce 2 and the 9700 Pro. My experience is that AMD drivers can in no way match Nvidia's. Not even close.

I had a TNT2, an original Radeon DDR, 9700 Pro, 8800 GTX in single, dual, and tri-SLI in various machines, a GTX 280, 4890 CrossfireX, and now 6950 2GB CrossfireX. I had just as many issues with Nvidia drivers as ATI drivers, and few issues with either that weren't solved by updating to a different release when I discovered them. I don't understand why people complain so much about the drivers at alll -- fairly sure it's a case of "only people with problems will talk about it" while the vast majority (I guess that's me for once, though my luck is usually terrible) are happy and keep quiet. You never see a tread titled "these drivers are badass!" but you see plenty about how much they "suck".
 

Pylor

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I had a TNT2, an original Radeon DDR, 9700 Pro, 8800 GTX in single, dual, and tri-SLI in various machines, a GTX 280, 4890 CrossfireX, and now 6950 2GB CrossfireX. I had just as many issues with Nvidia drivers as ATI drivers, and few issues with either that weren't solved by updating to a different release when I discovered them. I don't understand why people complain so much about the drivers at alll -- fairly sure it's a case of "only people with problems will talk about it" while the vast majority (I guess that's me for once, though my luck is usually terrible) are happy and keep quiet. You never see a tread titled "these drivers are badass!" but you see plenty about how much they "suck".

This, drivers will be drivers will be drivers. I've had problems with both sides, each with their own respective issues. With my 4870s I only had problems with crossfire, never really anything else. I also remember when my nvidia 6800 had artifacts with certain drivers too, just different issues. The only place I'd really say there's a MASSIVE difference is in the mobile graphics market, which doesn't seem very large anyways.

Also, as a 7970 owner, I also think that, assuming nvidia's newest features work, that they have a big advantage from a purely gaming standpoint. Driver level implementation of AA seems to be stronger and more customizable and that adaptive v-sync is drool worthy to me.
 

MYST_2

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Messages
533
I must be the odd man out because I've gone from 880GTS->GTX260->6950->GTX580-7970 and never had driver issues. Just about every problem I've had was user created by overclocking or jacking around with settings.

I still think AMD needs to drop the price, but both cards have their niche right now. Nvidia is better for pure gaming and 1080p. AMD handles the higher resolution a bit better and has the GPGPU area covered. Both cards are fast as hell and borderline overkill for 1080p console ports.
 

yanmeng

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I must be the odd man out because I've gone from 880GTS->GTX260->6950->GTX580-7970 and never had driver issues. Just about every problem I've had was user created by overclocking or jacking around with settings.

I still think AMD needs to drop the price, but both cards have their niche right now. Nvidia is better for pure gaming and 1080p. AMD handles the higher resolution a bit better and has the GPGPU area covered. Both cards are fast as hell and borderline overkill for 1080p console ports.

According to multiple reviews, Nvidia handles higher resolution better too. It is that 6800's lead over 7970 become smaller at higher resolution. GTX 6800 leads 7970 about 15~25% at 1080p and 5~15% at 5760x1200.

"In this apples-to-apples performance test we are comparing all video cards at 8X MSAA + FXAA at 5760x1200. GeForce GTX 680 SLI is 23% faster than Radeon HD 7970 CrossFireX at these settings. "
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/03/28/nvidia_kepler_geforce_gtx_680_sli_video_card_review/6
 

Toonie

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ATi builds great cards but their drivers took a big dump after the 9700 Pro. While I have my fair share of driver problems on both side, nVIDIA is definitely more stable when it comes to their drivers IMO.
 

MYST_2

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According to multiple reviews, Nvidia handles higher resolution better too. It is that 6800's lead over 7970 become smaller at higher resolution. GTX 6800 leads 7970 about 15~25% at 1080p and 5~15% at 5760x1200.

"In this apples-to-apples performance test we are comparing all video cards at 8X MSAA + FXAA at 5760x1200. GeForce GTX 680 SLI is 23% faster than Radeon HD 7970 CrossFireX at these settings. "
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/03/28/nvidia_kepler_geforce_gtx_680_sli_video_card_review/6

It is a wash at 2560x1440 with a single card. That is my "high resolution".
 

Nearsite

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I've owned a 9800Pro, 4770, 4850, 5770, and a 5850 and never noticed any driver issues at all? I must be extremely lucky. I've also owned a Geforce 5700, 7600GT, 7900GS and a 9800GT and never had a driver issue either. I must be extremly lucky in both cases.
 

sdlvx

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God, I remember when I had an x800 and everyone was like "GO NV THE DRIVERS ARE SO MUCH BETTER!"

When an AMD driver doesn't work, it's a feature that's fucking up or crossfire not working right. When NV drivers screw up, it crashes the entire system and gives you a BSOD or a red screen of death.
 

MavericK

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ATi builds great cards but their drivers took a big dump after the 9700 Pro. While I have my fair share of driver problems on both side, nVIDIA is definitely more stable when it comes to their drivers IMO.

Pretty much. I had problems with the 9800 Pro drivers. I think that's one of the main reasons I went nVidia in the first place.
 

{NG}Fidel

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Messages
6,286
7970 is stil better imo than GTX 680.

7970 gains more from OC than 680 and probably higher % of good bins vs bad bins.
7970 has better electrical design IMO.
7970 has excellent performance across all games, 680 chokes hard on a few.
7970 capable of higher quality GFX than 680 due to Alpha sharpen/better -lod/Temporal AA.
7970 has better video playback....don't argue...look it up.
7970 in general performs better in crossfire (better scaling)
7970 performs better in openGL
7970 is better for compute
7970 stable frequency/power draw prevents too big/too little a power supply(saving $/problems)
AMD/ATI has a better tweak program for obscure settings. (ATT)

no way in hell I'd switch to NV.
WTF are you on..
Look if you bought a 7970 before the 680 came out you made a smart buy. You got great performance for 3 months before anything else could deliver that.
If you are buying a gaming GPU now for single monitor or non surround/eyefinity then you should go GTX680 hands down.
I will say that AMD does have a way to force AA in most titles I play. At least it looks like its happening to me.

7970 performs better in openGL
7970 is better for compute
That might be like the only thing you said thats true. Although I really didnt read the whole list.
It looks so foolish so I couldnt be bothered too.

Okay, GTX680 vs AMD 7970 single card benchmark at 2560 resolution. Here you go, "this is the single biggest victory for the GTX 680 over the 7970, beating AMD’s best by 28% at 2560," http://www.anandtech.com/show/5699/n...-680-review/13

No matter what, Nvidia GTX 680 wins hands down

Something is weird about the Anandtech review. I hate to be the one to say that but it just seems fishy the numbers they got.
 

Phishy714

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Okay, GTX680 vs AMD 7970 single card benchmark at 2560 resolution. Here you go, "this is the single biggest victory for the GTX 680 over the 7970, beating AMD’s best by 28% at 2560," http://www.anandtech.com/show/5699/nvidia-geforce-gtx-680-review/13

No matter what, Nvidia GTX 680 wins hands down.

Posting a link in which only 1 game is tested at that resolution showing that the GTX 680 wins is definitely representative of the overall performance on all games.

......../facepalm
 

doz

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Both AMD and NVidia are screwed when the VooDoo 5Dfx card comes out next month.
 

Jorona

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Both AMD and NVidia are screwed when the VooDoo 5Dfx card comes out next month.

Hurp Derp.

Its a shame 3DFx went under. I never had a problem with my Voodoo Banshee or my Voodoo3-3000. Hell, the 3000 is still used today.
 

vicbdn

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Weren't people complaining about ati xfire bfbc performance for half a year and they didn't do anything? Then Nvidia releases the 580s and sli blew ati out of the water. Then all of a sudden two weeks later ati magically finds a 30% boost in xfire performance?

Maybe it was the 560 release actually. Don't quite remember.
 

night_2004

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Messages
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Weren't people complaining about ati xfire bfbc performance for half a year and they didn't do anything? Then Nvidia releases the 580s and sli blew ati out of the water. Then all of a sudden two weeks later ati magically finds a 30% boost in xfire performance?

Maybe it was the 560 release actually. Don't quite remember.

Yeah, competition kind of does that...provide the best value for consumers :D.
 
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