AMD crowd-sources evidence for the fast-emerging 500-series chipset USB issue

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MrAgmoore

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I read the entire Reddit thread. Summary:

The sad thing is that this has been known about on the 400 series chipset in 2019. This isn't a new thing, they just don't seem to care.


People have been gimping their system by reverting to PCIe 3.0 in the bios, which seems to be legit workaround. A couple of people said that: "AGESA 1.2.0.0 fixes the problem" ( ie. they can go back to using PCIe 4.0 ).


What's really sad is reading about: people selling their AMD systems and "going back to Intel", or spending 30 hours to figure out that the solution was to revert to PCIe 3.0, or RMAing all kinds of things that didn't need RMAing.


I mean... I'm using a ( eleven years old in March ) i7-860, GTX 780, which although aging, works fine still and everything worked out of the box, to the point that it was plug and play, which was weird. ( I've been PC gaming since there was PC gaming 1989 - Xenon 2 Megablast ).


I have to pick up a 5900x in 8 hours from Canada Computers because they last time I built an AMD was the Athlon 64 x2 4400... 15 years ago and the heat generation was so nuts that I decided that would be the first and last AMD build ( ie. never again ).

And here we are... 15 years later and people are still talking about AMD shitbox graphics drivers.

I dunno how people can be OK with running companies where the public reputation and legacy is for making shitbox drivers? One would have thought that this kind of thing would have been hammered out over the span of 15 years but I guess not... add some fucking QA QC already?

You guys can just roll into your local MicroCenter but in Canada the shelves are bare and backorder takes a couple of months+
 
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GiGaBiTe

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The sad thing is that this has been known about on the 400 series chipset in 2019. This isn't a new thing, they just don't seem to care.
People have been gimping their system by reverting to PCIe 3.0 in the bios, which seems to be legit workaround. A couple of people said that: "AGESA 1.2.0.0 fixes the problem" ( ie. they can go back to using PCIe 4.0 ).
What's really sad is reading about: people selling their AMD systems and "going back to Intel", or spending 30 hours to figure out that the solution was to revert to PCIe 3.0, or RMAing all kinds of things that didn't need RMAing.

When you buy bleeding edge hardware, you accept the risk that it may have teething problems of bugs or other undesirable behavior. Throwing out a whole system based on a USB issue and "going back to intel" like they're perfect is just pathetic. USB since its inception in the late 90s has had wide ranging issues with implementation and bugs. Problems with USB have historically centered around standards changes, like going from 1.0 to 1.1, then 2.0 and 3.0. Now we have a quagmire of successive USB standards all stacked on top of each other with 3.1, 3.2 and all of the stupid connector changes. I'm surprised USB is working at all on new devices.

How about a real serious problem, like when Intel had self-destructing SATA ports on X58 and some early Sandy Bridge chipsets? Or their ongoing snafu of severe processor vulnerabilities that cover basically their entire product line and the patches that reduce performance by as much as 50%.

I have to pick up a 5900x in 8 hours from Canada Computers because they last time I built an AMD was the Athlon 64 x2 4400... 15 years ago and the heat generation was so nuts that I decided that would be the first and last AMD build ( ie. never again ).

This is fucking amazing. You swear off an entire company based on the TDP of a single processor when comparable Intel processors of the time were far more power hungry. The Athlon 64 x2 4400+ was either a 89W or 110W part (depending on the die revision), when comparable Intel processors released at the same time, like the Pentium 4 670 was a 115W part. Or the Pentium D 830/840, which were 130W parts that often drew closer to 160W. Even the top end Athlon 64 4800+ was only a 110W part.

And here we are... 15 years later and people are still talking about AMD shitbox graphics drivers.

I dunno how people can be OK with running companies where the public reputation and legacy is for making shitbox drivers? One would have thought that this kind of thing would have been hammered out over the span of 15 years but I guess not... add some fucking QA QC already?

I'd hazard a guess you're an Intel/Nvidia fanboy? There's really no other way of looking at it with all of the hate you're throwing at AMD, and saying an entire company is bad based on your wildly inaccurate assumption about a single processor from 16 years ago.
 

GotNoRice

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Some of the topics I've read about this have been fairly sensational, giving you the impression that this affects every user. I've been using X570 + 3900X for a year and a half or so now and I have not had any USB issues.
 

GiGaBiTe

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I've built and serviced several Ryzen systems and the only major issue I've had was getting a landmine Ryzen 5 1500X that had the dreaded segfault bug, but AMD RMA'd me a replacement CPU without the bug in a week. Diagnosing it did take a couple of months though due to another landmine of having six bad memory sticks in a row... But that was Fry's and Patriot's fault, not AMD.

I totally feel for users having problems with their rigs, but throwing the whole thing out for one issue is just asinine, especially when it can potentially be fixed with software/BIOS updates. Also saying AMD sucks because of it just promotes fanboyism and division. Just look at our own Intel and AMD subforums, both platforms have equal amount of trouble going back decades, just not always at the same time.
 

mda

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Noticed that my X470 / 3700X system recently has very bad USB write speeds -- down to 4-5MB/s on what should be a fast drive. No such problems on my other rigs. Could be one of the later BIOS changes. This is too bad, since this may have coincided with the faster POST times I've been getting with the latest AGESA.
 

harmattan

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Good thing I have a B350 motherboard. Hurr Hurr Hurr!
I "upgraded" from an entry-level x370 to an entry-level 570x last week. In addition to this potential USB issue, I've found nothing but detractions from the 4 year-old x370 I was using previously. Slightly lower overclocking headroom (on my 3600), slightly less stable memory timings, and worse, multiple cost-cut features. All for 30% more in price.

I won't likely until I do my next set of upgrades see any of the PCI-E bandwidth improvements, at which point, I'll probably upgrade my mobo again. The only thing the 500-series gets me is a path to Zen 3 (although I'm hearing x370s may support Zen 3 shortly). Largely, moving to 500-series was a waste for me.
 

GiGaBiTe

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Noticed that my X470 / 3700X system recently has very bad USB write speeds -- down to 4-5MB/s on what should be a fast drive. No such problems on my other rigs. Could be one of the later BIOS changes. This is too bad, since this may have coincided with the faster POST times I've been getting with the latest AGESA.

Check for "zombie" USB devices. I've had USB devices go into a corrupt state where they take down the entire USB subsystem, or cause erratic behavior like slow speeds or new USB devices not enumerating properly. This tends to happen with USB devices that remain plugged in for extended periods of time, especially storage devices.

I can't tell you how many "emergency" calls I've gotten with malfunctioning or slow computers from customers that turned out to be a flash drive stuck in the back of their system that they had forgotten about months ago. The flash drive will eventually go into a state of funk and cause the entire computer to go haywire.

Also check that the port isn't fouled up, ESPECIALLY on newer USB 3.x ports like the shitty USB-C connector. The contacts eventually get tarnished or dirt packed into them and intermittent connectivity issues. I've seen USB 3.x devices fall back to 2.0 compatibility mode due to bad connections and be really slow. Even the contacts on the device itself can get fouled up. I keep a can of Deoxit Gold G5 on hand for tarnished connectors and it does amazing work restoring electronic gear with worn/dirty/tarnished contacts.
 

M76

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Interesting, I wouldn't at all be surprised if the issue was related to aging usb devices or hubs. I mean the front USB ports on my case sometimes work sometimes don't, depending on the device connected, but I 100% blamed the case and not the MB for that.
 

GSDragoon

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Outside of some usb 2.0 issues in uefi first few month of initial 300/570x release, I've had no problems. Using 3900x, x570 aorus master and rx 6800 on pcie 4.0. Still not convinced this isn't pebkac or something stupid like pcie risee cables.
 

vegeta535

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Outside of some usb 2.0 issues in uefi first few month of initial 300/570x release, I've had no problems. Using 3900x, x570 aorus master and rx 6800 on pcie 4.0. Still not convinced this isn't pebkac or something stupid like pcie risee cables.
I used a riser cable for awhile and still had no issues til I upgraded to a 3080 and those were gpu related issues when running at 4.0. everything worked fine when I switched it too 3.0. I have since removed the riser cable tho.
 

DukenukemX

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I "upgraded" from an entry-level x370 to an entry-level 570x last week. In addition to this potential USB issue, I've found nothing but detractions from the 4 year-old x370 I was using previously. Slightly lower overclocking headroom (on my 3600), slightly less stable memory timings, and worse, multiple cost-cut features. All for 30% more in price.

I won't likely until I do my next set of upgrades see any of the PCI-E bandwidth improvements, at which point, I'll probably upgrade my mobo again. The only thing the 500-series gets me is a path to Zen 3 (although I'm hearing x370s may support Zen 3 shortly). Largely, moving to 500-series was a waste for me.
I've had my fair share of issues with the B350 but those issues were solved. ASRock AB350 Pro was a total pain in the ass since I had no way to alter the voltage on the NB to fix memory issues. ASRock did release a bios update 2 years later that allowed me to do this. My MSI B350 Tomahawk is kinda amazing since I've owned this. This PC is probably my most stable PC I've ever owned. Rock solid for over a year and I've not restarted it for months.

I'm glad I didn't jump on the upgrade motherboard bandwagon. I'd rather have a stable PC than a slightly faster PC. By the time I upgrade my CPU I will have to buy a new motherboard anyway.
 

Starfalcon

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Some of the topics I've read about this have been fairly sensational, giving you the impression that this affects every user. I've been using X570 + 3900X for a year and a half or so now and I have not had any USB issues.

I bought a MSI X570 creator board back in november 2019 and have had zero problems with USB since I got it back then. I use a ton of USB ports also, one of the main reasons I bought the board back then. I regularly use 8-10 ports that are plugged in constantly and sometimes add even more when I plug in other items.
 

coynatha

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Asus B450-F has gone from a Ryzen 2600 --> 3600X --> 5800X over the past, what? 3 years now? I run KB/Mouse thru the monitor, there's a webcam, printer/scanner, headset dongle, headset charge cable, half dozen USB sticks in and out of it...

I've literally traded out almost every single piece of hardware that surrounds this mainboard since I bought it. Case, power supply, ram, video cards, monitors, CPU cooling, the cpu's of course, etc.

Never ever noticed an issue USB wise.
 

Lakados

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Asus B450-F has gone from a Ryzen 2600 --> 3600X --> 5800X over the past, what? 3 years now? I run KB/Mouse thru the monitor, there's a webcam, printer/scanner, headset dongle, headset charge cable, half dozen USB sticks in and out of it...

I've literally traded out almost every single piece of hardware that surrounds this mainboard since I bought it. Case, power supply, ram, video cards, monitors, CPU cooling, the cpu's of course, etc.

Never ever noticed an issue USB wise.
Not not a 500 series, not running PCIE4, not using USB 2.0. So none of the issues applies to you.
 

GotNoRice

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I "upgraded" from an entry-level x370 to an entry-level 570x last week. In addition to this potential USB issue, I've found nothing but detractions from the 4 year-old x370 I was using previously. Slightly lower overclocking headroom (on my 3600), slightly less stable memory timings, and worse, multiple cost-cut features. All for 30% more in price.

You bought a budget motherboard that performs like a budget motherboard and decided to blame the chipset. The chipset doesn't determine what VRMs your motherboard uses, or the quality of the DIMM sockets, or the traces on the motherboard connecting the DIMM sockets to the memory controller. The fact that you had decent results with a budget motherboard in the past is certainly no guarantee that you will have good results with budget motherboards in the future, regardless of the chipset used.
 

Armenius

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Some of the topics I've read about this have been fairly sensational, giving you the impression that this affects every user. I've been using X570 + 3900X for a year and a half or so now and I have not had any USB issues.
Now you know how Intel users feel every time a minor issue gets sensationalized by the internet.
 

DejaWiz

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No USB (or other) issues with my MSI X570 Tomahawk...GPU is in PCIe 4.0 mode.
 

Furious Nerd

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Everyone reporting no issues: great, but it is already known it affects a small percentage of users. Just because only 1/10 people have an issue doesn't mean there isn't an issue and that it's no big deal just because you don't have the problem others do
 

DejaWiz

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Everyone reporting no issues: great, but it is already known it affects a small percentage of users. Just because only 1/10 people have an issue doesn't mean there isn't an issue and that it's no big deal just because you don't have the problem others do

I don't see any comments saying it's not a big deal.

Data showing no problems is just as crucial as data showing problems... helpful for future upgraders to make a more informed decision on which brands/models of components to go with for a given platform, or for those having problems and want to replace the culprit component with a non-problematic one.
 

Brackle

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Dang thats not good to hear. Havent had any issues with my X570 MSI Unify, or my x570 Asus mitx ROG.
 

yourgrandma

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I "upgraded" from an entry-level x370 to an entry-level 570x last week. In addition to this potential USB issue, I've found nothing but detractions from the 4 year-old x370 I was using previously. Slightly lower overclocking headroom (on my 3600), slightly less stable memory timings, and worse, multiple cost-cut features. All for 30% more in price.

I won't likely until I do my next set of upgrades see any of the PCI-E bandwidth improvements, at which point, I'll probably upgrade my mobo again. The only thing the 500-series gets me is a path to Zen 3 (although I'm hearing x370s may support Zen 3 shortly). Largely, moving to 500-series was a waste for me.
X570 also has bugged sata ports on a hardware level, you can look it up. It makes for slower performance when using ssd's intermittently over sata, the problem was never fixed and has been brought up many times.
 

thebufenator

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X570 also has bugged sata ports on a hardware level, you can look it up. It makes for slower performance when using ssd's intermittently over sata, the problem was never fixed and has been brought up many times.

Eh? Hadn't heard that one. Does that affect only a subset of users or "everyone"?
 

Lakados

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Eh? Hadn't heard that one. Does that affect only a subset of users or "everyone"?
It's a lot of users, the X570 only does 4 SATA ports, any ports beyond that are handled by additional chips usually an ASM1061, and the performance off that is garbage, especially random read/writes. There is almost no documentation on which boards are using what chips nor which ports are controlled by the X570 or the add-ons. And it certainly isn't just limited to the budget boards the most expensive board that I know of using the ASM1061's is the MSI Godlike and I know at least one person who was pretty choked to find that out the hard way.
 

Lakados

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According to Mr Read the entire reddit thread it does?
..... Well I am not reading through that whole thing but AMD is specifically looking into the interaction between USB 2.0 when operating the PCIE at 4.0 speeds, dropping it back down to 3.0 manually in the BIOS is a confirmed workaround. I do recall instability being one of the LONG list of reasons that AMD was not enabling PCIE4 on the 400 series, but I didn't pay too much attention to that. AMD has a pretty good list of issues with the 400 series but none as outright annoying as the USB issue on the X570's that I know of.
 

harmattan

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You bought a budget motherboard that performs like a budget motherboard and decided to blame the chipset. The chipset doesn't determine what VRMs your motherboard uses, or the quality of the DIMM sockets, or the traces on the motherboard connecting the DIMM sockets to the memory controller. The fact that you had decent results with a budget motherboard in the past is certainly no guarantee that you will have good results with budget motherboards in the future, regardless of the chipset used.
But we're not talking about a few variable components: it's many of them, as well as removed or downgraded features, across brands on the same entry-level board lines. An Asus x570 pro, Giga Gaming X, MSI Gaming has less quality components, and missing features compared what its 3 year-old (and 4 year-old) direct predecessors had. Downgrading VRMs and audio hardware so I can have PCI-E 4.0 is stealing from Peter so I can pay Paul -- and still charging more for it to boot.
 

NightReaver

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But we're not talking about a few variable components: it's many of them, as well as removed or downgraded features, across brands on the same entry-level board lines. An Asus x570 pro, Giga Gaming X, MSI Gaming has less quality components, and missing features compared what its 3 year-old (and 4 year-old) direct predecessors had. Downgrading VRMs and audio hardware so I can have PCI-E 4.0 is stealing from Peter so I can pay Paul -- and still charging more for it to boot.
So then why did you buy it if it had inferior components? I don't buy a new mobo just because it has a newer chipset if my cpu will still work fine on my current board. Why downgrade on VRMs, then complain that it doesn't OC as well?
 

TheSlySyl

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X570 Taichi and 3900X here, using all 24 PCI-E lanes in mixed 3.0 and 4.0 modes, using 7 of my 8 SATA ports...I've had zero issues with USB or SATA.
System is so stable that I only have to reboot for program updates, uptime is usually "however long before windows updates tells me to restart."

I had a ton of RAM problems on my X370, but I was also using mixed ram with mixed timings and mixed sizes. (That ram had zero issues on my x570 before I upped my RAM as well.)
 

GotNoRice

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But we're not talking about a few variable components: it's many of them, as well as removed or downgraded features, across brands on the same entry-level board lines. An Asus x570 pro, Giga Gaming X, MSI Gaming has less quality components, and missing features compared what its 3 year-old (and 4 year-old) direct predecessors had. Downgrading VRMs and audio hardware so I can have PCI-E 4.0 is stealing from Peter so I can pay Paul -- and still charging more for it to boot.

So you think you got a poorly performing budget motherboard because AMD forced PCIe 4.0 upon the motherboard manufacturer?
 
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