AMD Confirms Zen 3's Performance Is Monstrous and Speculation Thread

DejaWiz

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I'm impressed. This affirms my choice to go with a 5700X as my next CPU.

I'm really looking forward to this!
 

Lakados

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Is this how they get around calling it a paper launch? By calling it a "teaser" as if was a movie or a game? :rolleyes:
Well sorta, I mean they have had the Oct 28’th date booked for their big reveal for Months now. I think the one today was set up far more recently it steal some of NVidia’s thunder because they have been dominating the news lately.
 

/dev/null

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The stock Wraith Stealth? It's not even good enough for the 3600. Why would you spend $550 for a 12C/24T part and cheap out by reusing a subpar cooler?
Works fine for me...I don't have temperatures breaking 70c, IIRC.

Coolers don't "add" anything to a system unless they prevent throttling. I don't like spending money on something that isn't gaining me anything.
 

Krenum

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Coolers don't "add" anything to a system unless they prevent throttling. I don't like spending money on something that isn't gaining me anything.

Sure they do, a hot CPU can heat up your system & your graphics card and vice versa lowering performance, especially on the graphics card's boost clocks. If you're going to spend that kind of money on system components, why not spend the money and cool them properly?
 

/dev/null

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Sure they do, a hot CPU can heat up your system & your graphics card and vice versa lowering performance, especially on the graphics card's boost clocks. If you're going to spend that kind of money on system components, why not spend the money and cool them properly?
That is exactly what I'm talking about. If you aren't throttling they don't add anything. My graphics card is fine under load as is my cpu currently. Just wondering if I can get away with a 5900x+good cooling (I have 4 case fans) by re-using my 3600 cooler.
 

Axman

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To a point, too high temperatures will shorten the life of components. The other extreme is also true; too much air flow will also cause parts to break down. Best theory is that there's some static buildup on the too much air cooling side, but it's an issue with farms.
 

Krenum

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That is exactly what I'm talking about. If you aren't throttling they don't add anything. My graphics card is fine under load as is my cpu currently. Just wondering if I can get away with a 5900x+good cooling (I have 4 case fans) by re-using my 3600 cooler.
The 3600 has a TDP 65W rating, the 5900X will have a TDP 105W rating.

I'd say no. Don't be a cheap ass, get a decent cooler for the application you're running.

AMD ships their processors with coolers that are rated for the processor. Since the 5900X will not be shipped with a CPU cooler, they assume that the person buying it knows its specifications and will buy a cooler to fit the application accordingly.
 

/dev/null

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The 3600 has a TDP 65W rating, the 5900X will have a TDP 105W rating.

I'd say no. Don't be a cheap ass, get a decent cooler for the application you're running.
Insults not appreciated. BLocked.
 

SmokeRngs

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Insults not appreciated. BLocked.
He's absolutely correct. Trying to use a Wraith Stealth on anything other than low power CPU is dumb.

I have a Ryzen 2600x, a 6 core 12 thread 95w CPU and it came with the Wraith Spire which is a better cooler than the Stealth. As soon as I found a good deal on a Hyper 212 LED I jumped on it because the Spire was throttling the CPU when there was any sort of load. Oh, it wasn't thermally throttling but it was badly throttling the boost. Base clock is 3.6 and when under any real load it would never boost past 3.8Ghz with the Spire and on very light loads it would hit 4Ghz. After installing the Hyper 212 my boost clocks never drop below 4Ghz on full out 100% loads and run 4.2Ghz-4.25Ghz on lighter loads. My temps are also a lot lower across the board.

I doubt I'd use the Hyper 212 on anything above an 8 core CPU because it wouldn't handle the heat transfer well and I'd be leaving performance behind due to lower boost clocks. There's no chance I'd ever use the Wraith Spire much less the Wraith Stealth on an 8 core CPU much less anything higher considering the Hyper 212 outclasses both badly. The Wraith Stealth on a 5900x probably wouldn't even boost and instead sit at the base clock other than for a few microseconds assuming it doesn't thermally throttle.
 

HockeyJon

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Good wakeup call for anyone that still believed AMD isn't in the game for money and was going to sell top tier products at mid tier prices once they fully took the performance crown.

Anyone who believed that was an idiot to begin with. They’re a publicly traded company. They exist to make money for their shareholders, they don’t exist to do anyone a solid. AMD raising prices when they have a solid lead should surprise no one.
 

Red Falcon

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Insults not appreciated. BLocked.
He is correct, though.
That HSF won't be enough to properly cool that CPU, and it was really only meant for CPUs with a TDP of 65 watts and running stock, not a 105 watt CPU.

I totally get it if you aren't running the CPU under load ever, or simply can't afford another cooler - do what you gotta do.
If you do intend on using that CPU to its full extent, even at stock, a better/bigger HSF would be highly advised.
 

Red Falcon

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Anyone who believed that was an idiot to begin with. They’re a publicly traded company. They exist to make money for their shareholders, they don’t exist to do anyone a solid. AMD raising prices when they have a solid lead should surprise no one.
Exactly, and lest we forget back in 2005 and 2006 when AMD priced their CPUs accordingly, and in 2006 sold their FX-60 dual-core (then top-end CPU) for ~$1200.
They are a technology megacorp, and a damn good one - and they are most certainly in it for the profit.

If they can perform for the money their products are being offered, it will be a welcome, and wise, purchase in the vein of 2005.
Welcome back AMD, you've earned it.
 

Meeho

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That is exactly what I'm talking about. If you aren't throttling they don't add anything. My graphics card is fine under load as is my cpu currently. Just wondering if I can get away with a 5900x+good cooling (I have 4 case fans) by re-using my 3600 cooler.
You're wrong.

Screenshot_20201009-054436.jpg
 

cdabc123

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To a point, too high temperatures will shorten the life of components. The other extreme is also true; too much air flow will also cause parts to break down. Best theory is that there's some static buildup on the too much air cooling side, but it's an issue with farms.

Silicon doesn't typically degrade till far past the point they start throttling this is the case for gpus and cpus. It's an accurate statement to say you arnt loosing any preformance running closer to the throttling limit.

With that said a good cooler can be pretty cheap and will often be quieter they also tend to build up less dust over time allowing them to keep that advantage. Additionally I personally would lean to keeping a chip cooler just for the sake of throwing some more voltage and clocks into the chip as likewise that does not significantly alter the chips lifespan.

I'm kinda surprised when people take unlocked chips and don't mess with them at all often a chip can be stable with less voltage and more clock then what it came out of the factory with
 

MaZa

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Dissapointed by the lack of non-X 5600. I am always after the best bang for the buck and AMD's upcoming CPU's are too close to Intel pricing for my comfort. Yeah they are now equal and perhaps even better than Intel, but I am cheap ass and proud of it. :p 290 is too much for a 6 core in my book.
 

Mylex

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Dissapointed by the lack of non-X 5600. I am always after the best bang for the buck and AMD's upcoming CPU's are too close to Intel pricing for my comfort. Yeah they are now equal and perhaps even better than Intel, but I am cheap ass and proud of it. :p 290 is too much for a 6 core in my book.
Just wait 90 days after launch, AMD cpus don't old MSRP very well. That's why they launched the XT chips to raise margins back to launch for a few weeks until Zen3.
 

MaZa

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Just wait 90 days after launch, AMD cpus don't old MSRP very well. That's why they launched the XT chips to raise margins back to launch for a few weeks until Zen3.

I will, I'm not in a hurry because my 3600 is still rocking solid. Hell, it is a GPU upgrade that I need first and foremost, vanilla GTX1080 is getting old.
 
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AVATARAT

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Benchmarks are useless.. for you. I don't care about cinebench and blender, and the claim has been that Zen3 will finally beat Intel in single threaded IPC. So we'll need to let the benchmarks do the talking, not wishful thinking.
Don't get me wrong - the benchmarks will show the right numbers and we all want to look at them.
But for moment Intel become more, and more undesirable/slower option.
 

kirbyrj

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Dissapointed by the lack of non-X 5600. I am always after the best bang for the buck and AMD's upcoming CPU's are too close to Intel pricing for my comfort. Yeah they are now equal and perhaps even better than Intel, but I am cheap ass and proud of it. :p 290 is too much for a 6 core in my book.

I agree. I would be ok with a $200-220 6 core non-x part. But once you start getting into the $300 range, it brings 8 cores into play either from the competitor (10700) or your old product stack (3700x).
 

idiomatic

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Sitting on a 2080ti on a 3900x... which one gets upgraded first? I do want to go to 5950x, max out my board and sit on it til it dies.
 

MaZa

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Works fine for me...I don't have temperatures breaking 70c, IIRC.

Coolers don't "add" anything to a system unless they prevent throttling. I don't like spending money on something that isn't gaining me anything.

This is where you are wrong. Ryzens scale with temperature. Even on stock the better your cooling is the more it boosts, in both duration and amount. And if nothing else, you gain in silence. Anyway, you can have 120mm tower coolers that run around both Wraith Stealth and even big Wraith Prism for 25 bucks give or take, there is no reason not to get one.
 

mnewxcv

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I'm also going to be choosing between the 5900x and 5800x. On the one hand 5900x should be faster since it has more raw horsepower but it uses an 8+4 CCD design vs the single 8 core CCD of the 5800x so how does that affect latency and performance in gaming?
given the new core layout, I'm wondering if the 12 core will be 8+4 or 6+6. I'm thinking 6+6 since they can use the same dies from a 5600x just doubled up, BUT at the same time, if they have some bad batches of CCXs with less than 6 cores usable, they can slap one on the 5900x alongside a good 8 core one too. We will see.
 

mnewxcv

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Works fine for me...I don't have temperatures breaking 70c, IIRC.

Coolers don't "add" anything to a system unless they prevent throttling. I don't like spending money on something that isn't gaining me anything.
I would suspect the wraith strealth will really choke trying to cool the 5900x. You said you wont be overclocking, however the way amd cpus boost is based on temperature, so there is a good chance you actually will be leaving some performance on the table. I'd say get a hyper 212 and call it a day.

PS be careful removing the stealth from the 3600, in my experience with the coolers using 4 screw hold down, as you release the screws the CPU can lift [out of the socket] with the cooler. so give the cooler a good wiggle before, during, and after unscrewing it to try to break the thermal compound bond, so as not to lift the CPU and potentially damage any pins.
 

Ready4Dis

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Well sorta, I mean they have had the Oct 28’th date booked for their big reveal for Months now. I think the one today was set up far more recently it steal some of NVidia’s thunder because they have been dominating the news lately.
No, it was and always has been an announcement, not a release.
So what you're saying is... I need to find a cooler to run at -75 so my CPU doesn't throttle... got it! Seriously, I understand what you guys are saying, but it's not a matter of if it throttles, it's a matter of how much you're willing to accept. If you run stock you're willing to lose a bit of boost, but it's not as if it doesn't work, that plus most games don't load CPU's to 100% so even then it won't be getting as hot. Some people spend more money to maintain 80* instea dof *85 or spend $$ to get a custom loop to hold 60*... in all of these examples, they are still losing boost clocks, just less so. If the man doesn't think it's worth spending a few extra $ to gain a couple of %, it's his money. All you can do is point out that it will not boost and/or the noise will be higher. I run the stock cooler on my 3700x in my sons PC and I run an AIO in my mITX box. Both work just fine for my needs, plus if at some point it doesn't, I can always spend more money and upgrade the cooler if I feel necessary. I'm sure it'll run, but I'm also sure it will throttle pretty quickly and he'll lose some performance, but he'll also have a perfectly fine running machine. If/when he decides he wants to maintain higher boosts or w/e he can upgrade. If he never cares, that's fine too.
 

mnewxcv

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No, it was and always has been an announcement, not a release.

So what you're saying is... I need to find a cooler to run at -75 so my CPU doesn't throttle... got it! Seriously, I understand what you guys are saying, but it's not a matter of if it throttles, it's a matter of how much you're willing to accept. If you run stock you're willing to lose a bit of boost, but it's not as if it doesn't work, that plus most games don't load CPU's to 100% so even then it won't be getting as hot. Some people spend more money to maintain 80* instea dof *85 or spend $$ to get a custom loop to hold 60*... in all of these examples, they are still losing boost clocks, just less so. If the man doesn't think it's worth spending a few extra $ to gain a couple of %, it's his money. All you can do is point out that it will not boost and/or the noise will be higher. I run the stock cooler on my 3700x in my sons PC and I run an AIO in my mITX box. Both work just fine for my needs, plus if at some point it doesn't, I can always spend more money and upgrade the cooler if I feel necessary. I'm sure it'll run, but I'm also sure it will throttle pretty quickly and he'll lose some performance, but he'll also have a perfectly fine running machine. If/when he decides he wants to maintain higher boosts or w/e he can upgrade. If he never cares, that's fine too.
the stock cooler for a 3700x is leaps and bounds better than the stock cooler for a 3600. If he had a 3700x cooler, I would not hesitate to say use it. I said it in another thread even that anyone upgrading from a 2700x/3700x/3800x/3900x can reuse their wraith prism. Anyway, I have no objection to people doing what they wish, so this is just my two cents.
 

notarat

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After the build hell of hard lines, I won't be upgrading, I'll build a whole new system. Thanks to TT's poor quality control issues I still have 1.75 Pacifica custom loop kits leftover from my last build. I ended up not using most of those parts, so I'll fix them* and use those leftovers when I build the new system.







* 9 out of 10 of the 45°/90° combo fittings I bought had large metal chips dangling in them leftover from the machining process, the CPU water blocks fins from both kits were mashed together, and the 90° fittings also had metal chips left dangling in them, and the RPM sensor on the pump/res combo fell off. I've since dremeled out the chips and used a razor blade to fix the water blocks.
 
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Benchmarks are useless.. for you. I don't care about cinebench and blender, and the claim has been that Zen3 will finally beat Intel in single threaded IPC. So we'll need to let the benchmarks do the talking, not wishful thinking.
Zen 2 already has Intel beat on IPC. (Fully patched)
They just don't clock nearly as high as Intel's parts, so in the end Intel's parts are marginally faster in single threaded workloads anyways, (And even higher in games because of CCX latency, so "Game IPC" is lower than Intels I guess).

Zen 3 will widen that IPC gap even further so that they are noticeably faster WHILE being clocked lower than Intel parts (and of course fix the CCX latency for games).
 
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sirmonkey1985

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the stock cooler for a 3700x is leaps and bounds better than the stock cooler for a 3600. If he had a 3700x cooler, I would not hesitate to say use it. I said it in another thread even that anyone upgrading from a 2700x/3700x/3800x/3900x can reuse their wraith prism. Anyway, I have no objection to people doing what they wish, so this is just my two cents.

yeah the 3600 stock cooler was hot garbage but still better than anything intel included. i understand their reasoning for it to though. but i have no complaints, ended up putting it on an R5 1600 and kept the 1600 cooler as a back up in case i ever had issues with my AIO since the 1600 had the bigger cooler.
 

tangoseal

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As always I will attempt to make Microcenter runs for H folks here

Probably turn up empty. It seems like tech launches are getting worse with each release. Im also dreading the 6900xt launch as I must have one for my self.

My temporary 5600xt is just too F'in weak for what I do.
 

mnewxcv

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As always I will attempt to make Microcenter runs for H folks here

Probably turn up empty. It seems like tech launches are getting worse with each release. Im also dreading the 6900xt launch as I must have one for my self.

My temporary 5600xt is just too F'in weak for what I do.
Mc has always had good stock for ryzen cpus in the past at least. I just don't think it's worth two hours of driving anymore for one item, so I'll be ordering online this time around.
 

/dev/null

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the stock cooler for a 3700x is leaps and bounds better than the stock cooler for a 3600. If he had a 3700x cooler, I would not hesitate to say use it. I said it in another thread even that anyone upgrading from a 2700x/3700x/3800x/3900x can reuse their wraith prism. Anyway, I have no objection to people doing what they wish, so this is just my two cents.
Thx for the info. I may try to see if I can pick up a 3700x stock cooler for cheap if I go that route. My other option is to wait/hope for a 65w 5k series.....
 

mnewxcv

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Thx for the info. I may try to see if I can pick up a 3700x stock cooler for cheap if I go that route. My other option is to wait/hope for a 65w 5k series.....
Shoot me a pm, I think I have one I'd sell for less than going rate.
 

ChadD

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Just wait 90 days after launch, AMD cpus don't old MSRP very well. That's why they launched the XT chips to raise margins back to launch for a few weeks until Zen3.

I wouldn't count on them dropping much for a year. Intel is going to have zero answer. AMD is officially in thunderbird territory again. AMD looks like they are going to win every single bench this time... including contrived useless to just about anyone low resolution high FPS gaming. Intel marketing switching to "lifestyle" branding in 3... 2... 1. lol

AMD is going to have no reason to drop pricing. We complained Intel had no real competition for years... and they coasted. Well now we have to live with the pendulum swing, AMD is not a price competitor anymore they are now in the dominant leader position. Unless Intel has some miracle part they can deliver in volume before xmas next year, it looks like its going to stay that way for awhile.
 
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