AMD Briefing With Eric Demers Slide Deck @ [H]

[EBoundEE]

I've had a nVidia card since the first "GPU" (256) and have been a fanboy ever since. I'm not buying every generation of video card (I'd like to think this is a majority of people), but I usually skip a generation until I feel the need to upgrade.

I have finally switched over to ATi, albeit the 4770. I didn't know they were releasing the 5770's so soon! I thought they wouldn't be out until December or January and I wanted to play my Empire Earth now

Working for AMD, you'd think I would have switched over right away (definitely an AMD fanboy ), but I held hope. I switched over because of the performance of the new 5000 series and because I wanted the CPU/GPU/Chipset combo. Hell I was even ALL nVidia chipsets up to that point as well. It just seems like ATi has merged well with AMD (was rough for a while and scary) and are now back on track to making great products. This is evidenced in the 4 and 5 series, which finally made me switch over

I was a hardcore nVidia/AMD boy back in the day, but the game is a changing my friends

 

[Vermillion]

It was way more statistical accuracy than eg. those gallup poles you see at at elections...sorry to burst you bubble, by it isn't the people at [H] that makes AMD's or NVIDIA's bread and butter...that is done by Bob Joe...and there is a good chance he is sporting a G80.

Except that the hardware survey is flawed and doesn't recognize some hardware correctly. For instance it has problems seeing SLI/Crossfire.

I'm on my third Crossfire setup and Steam has NEVER said I have Crossfire.

But on topic...

Fermi better deliver. I don't want AMD to get complacent. I want kickass hardware and price wars from both sides. If Fermi doesn't deliver well I hope AMD learned from past mistakes and brings the pain instead of sitting on its hands.

 

[§kynet]

Slide 12 is quite remarkable. Essentially Jensen did exactly what he derided Intel of doing, but took it to an even grander scale. Not even Intel showed a fake product and pretended it was the real thing.

And I find it very strange that Nvidia has released so much detail on Fermi. I understand their need to "stop the bleeding" and get the info out there, but releasing so much detail seems odd. Why tip your hand to such a large degree when you have no product shipping? All you are going to do is give your competitors a target. Bad move.

 

[Jbirney]

Kyle, it would really help if your UI was a bit better with these slideshows (same thing with the Fermi slideshow). It's unneccessarily obtuse to open each one individually in a new window/tab and toggle between. Plus, for laptop users like myself, the side banners force a horizontal scroll to view the whole slide. Would it be possible for you to put prev/next buttons and keep the banners off the horizontal view?

But it looks great on the Eyefinity setup Kyle/Brent are using

Just kidding!!!!!

 

[AtkinS]

A friend of mine:

james says:
it makes logical sense
but i wanna see ati release a 5900 ultra :*

just to piss off the nvidia fan boys

haha

Yes ati naming it 5900 !!

 

[Dosomo]

I have owned ATI video cards in the past, and I am sure I will again at some point.

But...

I still can't figure out why everyone has celebrated their last two product launches. (4800 and 5800 series) Both times, they basically put out a product that couldn't beat their competition's fastest part, but at a lower price point. This is not surprising. Of course their new top-end part is lower in price. That is what you do when you can't beat the other guys "heads up". You sell at a lower price. Btw, they did the same thing when the 2900 XT came out too. It couldn't compete head-to-head, so they sold it at a lower price. But everyone perceived that launch as a failure.

I am just amazed that the marketing spin "We are ALMOST as fast for less money" has been swallowed hook, line, and sinker by the general public. I'm not saying their cards are bad, or even a bad deal. That isn't true. What I am saying is we are celebrating coming in second. Again.

This is the equivalent of a Formula 1 team losing a race by a couple of car lengths, and then celebrating that they didn't spend as much money as the winning team... Hooray?

 

[lazz]

I have owned ATI video cards in the past, and I am sure I will again at some point.

But...

I still can't figure out why everyone has celebrated their last two product launches. (4800 and 5800 series) Both times, they basically put out a product that couldn't beat their competition's fastest part, but at a lower price point. This is not surprising. Of course their new top-end part is lower in price. That is what you do when you can't beat the other guys "heads up". You sell at a lower price. Btw, they did the same thing when the 2900 XT came out too. It couldn't compete head-to-head, so they sold it at a lower price. But everyone perceived that launch as a failure.

I am just amazed that the marketing spin "We are ALMOST as fast for less money" has been swallowed hook, line, and sinker by the general public. I'm not saying their cards are bad, or even a bad deal. That isn't true. What I am saying is we are celebrating coming in second. Again.

This is the equivalent of a Formula 1 team losing a race by a couple of car lengths, and then celebrating that they didn't spend as much money as the winning team... Hooray?

This is nonsense. You're comparing a dual GPU card (GTX295) to a single GPU card (5870). In an "Apples to Apples" comarison, the 5870 is going up against the GTX285, and is whooping it good.

Next month will see the release of the 5870x2, and then you can start with your comparisons to the GTX295. And if you think it's not going to "beat the competition's fastest part" well, I'll look forward to reading your reactions to the [H] review

 

[jwalk6]

A friend of mine:

james says:
it makes logical sense
but i wanna see ati release a 5900 ultra :*

just to piss off the nvidia fan boys

haha

Yes ati naming it 5900 !!

That would be a shot in the foot. Would they really want to align themselves in any way with one of the most maligned Nvidia GPU families. That's like Ferrari naming their new model "Edsel"

 

[Atech]

Except that the hardware survey is flawed and doesn't recognize some hardware correctly. For instance it has problems seeing SLI/Crossfire.

I'm on my third Crossfire setup and Steam has NEVER said I have Crossfire.

Actually is inflated toward AMD cards...as it lumps the 4830's and other lowend together with the 4890's...but that dosn't change the big picture.

Fermi better deliver. I don't want AMD to get complacent. I want kickass hardware and price wars from both sides. If Fermi doesn't deliver well I hope AMD learned from past mistakes and brings the pain instead of sitting on its hands.

"Fermi" has +2 x the ASIC as the GT200 (in regards to gaming)...it wil be more than "able".
What kinda seperated the salt for the pepper, were the GPU conference...not towards gaming...but some people drew the wrong conclusion (based on their faulty expentations from a GPGPU conference, none the less) and suddenly we have these "NVIDIA is done in the high end" threads.
Mind you they will be fun reading in 3-6 months(I am bookmarking as many as I can for later "lulz")...but now they are just static...close to obsession.

All I say is that time will tell and Rome wasn't build in one day.
Is NVIDIA happy with status que...dobut it.
Have they thrown in the towel...far from it.
Will they surpise people...I am certain of that.

In a sense all the bad PR is actyally setting them up to pull off a new "G80"...as "some" already have declared them dead.
I on the other hand am to old to worry,
I saw Intel come back after the P4's...and AMD after the 2900's...and NVIDIA after the FX5800's...
People tend to have short memories...that is why I am having so much fun

 

[commodore]

This is the equivalent of a Formula 1 team losing a race by a couple of car lengths, and then celebrating that they didn't spend as much money as the winning team... Hooray?

Do you watch F1?? In reality in F1 if a lesser spending team comes in 2nd they are over the moon..point in fact, Force India F1 at Spa '09

Coming back to GPU's, the 4800 series got ATI a huge chunk of market share back..made them money and gave users great performance at lower prices. Do you see anyone other than Fanboi's complaining?

 

[Blazemore]

for Direct X 11, are you telling me you won't ever play new games? The games you play now that don't do Direct X 11 are all that's relevant to you? So if a new game comes out and makes good use of Direct X 11, you won't find that relevant? What about in 2 years or so when / if every game leverages this technology, how will you feel about it then?

It's not people won't ever play DX11 games, it's the fact that ATI PR is pushing their the DX11 warehouse on people to buy when there's nothing on the market to take full advantage of it. Relevant now no, in the future yes.

launched a little CPU called the Athlon 64. Perhaps you've heard of it? That "second rate CPU maker" (as you call them) kicked Intel's ass all over the place performance wise and Intel knew it. In one generation they toppled the giant from a performance standpoint.

One time years ago and every since not one peep out of them. Their new products to complete with Intel have been a disappointment.

Let's also not forget that AMD is actually working to create features relevant to gaming such as Eyefinity while NVIDIA is too busy creating HPC capable cards that happen to do graphics work on the side to care it seems. The 5870 is easily the best single GPU card on the planet. The 5870 X2 will take the total performance crown and there isn't anything NVIDIA is prepared to do about it.

Maybe, we don't know as of yet. I did hope the 5870 would have been a GTX295 killer so I could have gotten rid of this heat log thou.

 

[JYH]

Brushing aside the "Ad Hominem" I find it funny that people think the landscape changes on a quarterly basis.
I will be VERY impressed if ATI's makretshare goes up to 40% market cap in 3 months.
Flabbergasted if they hit 50% market cap in 6 months.

Get ready to be impressed...

AMD increased its market share by 4 percent from Q1 to Q2 of this year to 35 percent (Nvidia lost the same amount during the same period). I don't think it's out of the question for AMD to continue to increase its market share by the same margin (maybe even more because of the 5 series, Windows 7, and the lack of competition from Nvidia) each quarter this year until Fermi comes out...

These are critical times for Nvidia (actually for AMD as well) and Fermi needs to be a success or else not only is their dominant market share in jeopardy, but their majority market share is too...

 

[vengence]

If ATI really believes thier product is that much better than what they think Nvidia's will be(future tense) why are they bothering with all this crap? When the 380 comes out the 5870 should already crush it and they won't loose any sells to it. Why so much PR spin?

Judging from the specs, I'd be worried if I was Nvidia though. 4 months late to market with an equivelent card is not where you want to be unless you can make it cheaper.

 

[Dan_D]

If ATI really believes thier product is that much better than what they think Nvidia's will be(future tense) why are they bothering with all this crap? When the 380 comes out the 5870 should already crush it and they won't loose any sells to it. Why so much PR spin?

Judging from the specs, I'd be worried if I was Nvidia though. 4 months late to market with an equivelent card is not where you want to be unless you can make it cheaper.

It sure as hell doesn't sound like Fermi will be cheaper. In fact it sounds like quite the opposite.

 

[Dosomo]

This is nonsense. You're comparing a dual GPU card (GTX295) to a single GPU card (5870). In an "Apples to Apples" comarison, the 5870 is going up against the GTX285, and is whooping it good.

Next month will see the release of the 5870x2, and then you can start with your comparisons to the GTX295. And if you think it's not going to "beat the competition's fastest part" well, I'll look forward to reading your reactions to the [H] review

Comparing the fastest single-slot solutions currently available from both companies is completely valid. And if the 5870x2 is amazingly fast (probably) for the same or less money (it won't be), then you will be correct that it is worthy of celebration. Of course, if we are going to begin the future-launch argument, then I could say Fermi will be faster than 5870x2, and you can say that 6870 will be faster than Fermi, etc, etc, etc...

No matter how you try to pretty it up, 5870 did not "push" the industry or the technology forward. It did not "win" outside of the bang-for-the-buck competition. And hey, that is fine. When I go shopping for a card, that is all I really care about. My whole point wasn't that ATI's current parts aren't a good deal for the money, they are. My point was that when a new GPU launches I am hoping for that next "leap" in performance. (For example, the Geforce 256, Radeon 9700 Pro, and 8800 GTX) ATI has not provided that "leap" in a long long time.

Now, feel free to go back to declaring Nvidia dead and buried. I haven't heard that routine in what, like 6 months... but hey, you can keep hoping...

 

[commodore]

It sure as hell doesn't sound like Fermi will be cheaper. In fact it sounds like quite the opposite.

Fermi will have the jump in performance on the 5870 judging by this http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/15955/1/

..but like you said the pricing will be higher..

 

[AtkinS]

As a notice
5970 is "5870x2"
5950 is "5850X2"

By most people's guess.

Or have ati really clocked up the RV870 for two new sku's, i doubt it.

Anyways.

ATI naming scheme now = win.

5970=6870
5870=5770
5770=5670
...

This is how its been +/- 5% on all of the cards.


I've never said nvidia wont compete in performance with fermi, but i do say nvidia is failing to understand certant things that have led ati to the success that it have had in the recent times.

Lets do a recap of 4800 vs GT2xx
500MM^2 vs 256MM^2
512bit vs 256bit.

Ati showed it can almost match the compotition with half the die size, giving them more profit per card, and ati (imagining they had nvidia's cashstack or cisco's.)
They could in theory sell cards so cheap nvidia would loose money per videocard sold.

In other words, ati gets the higher profit anyways, they really dont care at all if they bash nvidia HARD or match on the performance, as long as they get a great marketshare and get profits.

 

[geekosphere101]

This is the equivalent of a Formula 1 team losing a race by a couple of car lengths, and then celebrating that they didn't spend as much money as the winning team... Hooray?

I completely disagree with your analogy. I suppose you could say that the two companies are in a race, a competition. That's true. But the goal is not simply to have the fastest video card on the market.

The goal is to make money. There is more than one way to do that. AMD had great success with the 4000 series and their approach to the market, setting several target prices and providing good performance for that price point. They have applied that same business model to the 5000 series and nV has nothing to match. AMD has also chosen a few features that they think gamers want.

AMD and NV are simply on different thought processes on the market. AMD is going after the gamers, while NV is attempting to expand the role of the graphics card in modern computing.

Why wouldn't the general public applaud AMD's effort? They have delivered some quality products with competitive prices (although I am underwhelmed by the 5770's performace) and new features that are exiting. Certainly we will all be playing DX11 games, eventually, and the more consumers out there who have the hardware to support it, the more game
developers are going to push it into their products.

This is good for everyone. I am not a fanboy of either, just a consumer who wants the best performance for his buck. I honestly hope Fermi performs well in gaming and forces AMD to lower prices, or release a "not as good" card for a fraction of the price as they have done in the past to push NV's Fermi prices down.

AMD has made their choice in approach to the market and they are doing well with it. Nv is making an interesting product as well. The future looks very bright for gaming in general. and having two strong companies competing will only drive it forward faster.

 

[SixtyWattMan]

I have owned ATI video cards in the past, and I am sure I will again at some point.

But...

I still can't figure out why everyone has celebrated their last two product launches. (4800 and 5800 series) Both times, they basically put out a product that couldn't beat their competition's fastest part, but at a lower price point. This is not surprising. Of course their new top-end part is lower in price. That is what you do when you can't beat the other guys "heads up". You sell at a lower price. Btw, they did the same thing when the 2900 XT came out too. It couldn't compete head-to-head, so they sold it at a lower price. But everyone perceived that launch as a failure.

I am just amazed that the marketing spin "We are ALMOST as fast for less money" has been swallowed hook, line, and sinker by the general public. I'm not saying their cards are bad, or even a bad deal. That isn't true. What I am saying is we are celebrating coming in second. Again.

This is the equivalent of a Formula 1 team losing a race by a couple of car lengths, and then celebrating that they didn't spend as much money as the winning team... Hooray?

You know people bought 8800GTs instead of 8800GTXs, you know why? Because it was almost as fast for less money. If everyone wanted the best performance possible we would have all had 8800 Ultras which were like $800. I'm not sure if you remember the $600+ GTX280s when they first came out and $300 4870s. Nvidia lowered their prices, ATI lowered their prices even more. Some people don't want to spend $400 on a video card when they can get a card that will play all the games they have at max setting +AA/AF for $200. I personally could care less who has the performance crown, I'm going to buy the best deal. I'm not going to throw my money at one company because they put out the fastest card when I never intend to buy that card.

 

[Dan_D]

Fermi will have the jump in performance on the 5870 judging by this http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/15955/1/

..but like you said the pricing will be higher..

I have no idea what the performance of Fermi will be. I'd hope that it will beat the 5870 if not the 5870 X2, but I'm much more concerned about when it will ship, and how much it will cost. Though I have to admit that it worries me that NVIDIA hasn't discussed it's potential gaming performance AT ALL.

 

[Dosomo]

Do you watch F1?? In reality in F1 if a lesser spending team comes in 2nd they are over the moon..point in fact, Force India F1 at Spa '09

Coming back to GPU's, the 4800 series got ATI a huge chunk of market share back..made them money and gave users great performance at lower prices. Do you see anyone other than Fanboi's complaining?

Yes, I do watch F1 when I have the chance. And thank you for making that analogy even more valid. Was the team that actually won at Spa '09 upset that they spent more money but actually WON? Did they look at each other and go, "Damn, if only we had spent less... we might have gotten SECOND! There's always next year guys!"

And you can sling the Fanboi routine at someone else. I have pointed out numerous times that I appreciate a good deal, and ATI's line-up is attractive at their price points. I am simply making the (valid) argument that ATI is focusing on the price point, because they didn't really beat their competition in terms of pure performance.

 

[Mat3]

Kyle, it would really help if your UI was a bit better with these slideshows (same thing with the Fermi slideshow). It's unneccessarily obtuse to open each one individually in a new window/tab and toggle between. Plus, for laptop users like myself, the side banners force a horizontal scroll to view the whole slide. Would it be possible for you to put prev/next buttons and keep the banners off the horizontal view?

Yeah, those side banners are very annoying. Every slide for every article is like this. I need to scroll to see it.

 

[smartpatrol]

No matter how you try to pretty it up, 5870 did not "push" the industry or the technology forward. It did not "win" outside of the bang-for-the-buck competition. And hey, that is fine. When I go shopping for a card, that is all I really care about. My whole point wasn't that ATI's current parts aren't a good deal for the money, they are. My point was that when a new GPU launches I am hoping for that next "leap" in performance. (For example, the Geforce 256, Radeon 9700 Pro, and 8800 GTX) ATI has not provided that "leap" in a long long time

What do you want? Do you really expect every new generation of GPU to outperform the dual-GPU version of the previous generation? If that's what it takes to impress you, I have a feeling you will never be impressed again with any new GPU release.

Alternately, when 5870x2 comes out, will that be a big enough leap for you? Or does that somehow not count because it's dual-GPU?

 

[kioras]

My prediction is that fermi single card, will likely be about 20% faster than the 5870, in most tests. However it will also at that time cost roughly $100-150 more, atleast, probably 499/549 msrp.

As far as time to market in numbers enough to matter, sometime in Q1... if they can hit the clock speeds needed.

 

[Dosomo]

Let me post a quick reply to all the marketing arguments being thrown my way right now. Yes, ATI has "competitive" products at nice prices. BUT... they have not designed a card in the last two generations with the intention of actually furthering the graphics market. That may not mean anything when you or I go to buy our new card and want the best we can get for our money, but it does matter to the industry as a whole. This is why I found the 4800 and 5800 series launches disappointing. They are aiming at second place. In fact, they said so during the 4800 series launch. I am just surprised that the gamers and gaming sites are all applauding this. I may very well own a Radeon 5870 at some point in the near future, because it is a good deal for my money. But I sure wish it had been the kind of leap that the old 9700 Pro was during its time. At this point ATI (AMD) has given up even trying to reach that leap. That is what I find disheartening. If you guys don't see what I am saying, or disagree... that is fine. Keep celebrating. After all, second place is pretty close...

 

[commodore]

Yes, I do watch F1 when I have the chance. And thank you for making that analogy even more valid. Was the team that actually won at Spa '09 upset that they spent more money but actually WON? Did they look at each other and go, "Damn, if only we had spent less... we might have gotten SECOND! There's always next year guys!"

And you can sling the Fanboi routine at someone else. I have pointed out numerous times that I appreciate a good deal, and ATI's line-up is attractive at their price points. I am simply making the (valid) argument that ATI is focusing on the price point, because they didn't really beat their competition in terms of pure performance.

Doh! the winning team will celebrate even if they cheated to get there. aka Singapore '08.

Also, i suggest you read your first post carefully ..its talks about the losing team celebrating. In this case AMD did celebrate their 2nd place for the 4870!.. and will celebrate again for the 5870 sales even if it is second. The company shifted their focus years ago to 'the sweet spot' and have proven that their strategy was correct.

Putting out the fastest, hottest and most power hungry chip gets you a thumbs up from 5% of the market..and means squat in other segments. So basically ..ATI changed its strategy to sell more chips and make more money..and it worked great for them.

 

[Vermillion]

Let me post a quick reply to all the marketing arguments being thrown my way right now. Yes, ATI has "competitive" products at nice prices. BUT... they have not designed a card in the last two generations with the intention of actually furthering the graphics market. That may not mean anything when you or I go to buy our new card and want the best we can get for our money, but it does matter to the industry as a whole. This is why I found the 4800 and 5800 series launches disappointing. They are aiming at second place. In fact, they said so during the 4800 series launch. I am just surprised that the gamers and gaming sites are all applauding this. I may very well own a Radeon 5870 at some point in the near future, because it is a good deal for my money. But I sure wish it had been the kind of leap that the old 9700 Pro was during its time. At this point ATI (AMD) has given up even trying to reach that leap. That is what I find disheartening. If you guys don't see what I am saying, or disagree... that is fine. Keep celebrating. After all, second place is pretty close...

Even hardcore games don't want to pay $600 per card.

I find it funny that you say "they have not designed a card in the last two generations with the intention of actually furthering the graphics market." NV did the same thing but I don't see you bitching about them. In fact they're STILL spitting out G80 derivatives as "low cost" cards. Oh and what about Eyefinity?

 

[dook43]

Let me post a quick reply to all the marketing arguments being thrown my way right now. Yes, ATI has "competitive" products at nice prices. BUT... they have not designed a card in the last two generations with the intention of actually furthering the graphics market. That may not mean anything when you or I go to buy our new card and want the best we can get for our money, but it does matter to the industry as a whole. This is why I found the 4800 and 5800 series launches disappointing. They are aiming at second place. In fact, they said so during the 4800 series launch. I am just surprised that the gamers and gaming sites are all applauding this. I may very well own a Radeon 5870 at some point in the near future, because it is a good deal for my money. But I sure wish it had been the kind of leap that the old 9700 Pro was during its time. At this point ATI (AMD) has given up even trying to reach that leap. That is what I find disheartening. If you guys don't see what I am saying, or disagree... that is fine. Keep celebrating. After all, second place is pretty close...

Fail.

 

[AtkinS]

and to make happy costumers by lowering GTX260 prices.
That move ati made i think made alot of guys cheer for ati.

Thats the real story behind all this i guess, that and
Nvidia, the way its meant to be renamed.

Btw i think ati had the crown with 4870X2, didnt they ? 1st place that
295 did take time before it came, and i never really saw it much @ etailers.

 

[geekosphere101]

Let me post a quick reply to all the marketing arguments being thrown my way right now. Yes, ATI has "competitive" products at nice prices. BUT... they have not designed a card in the last two generations with the intention of actually furthering the graphics market.

I understand your point. I don't understand how you don't see Eyefinity as an 'intention of actually furthering the graphics card market' ? Maybe it has no use to you... I certainly won't be able to afford it anytime soon. Heck, it's not even new technology as many have pointed out.

But it is still a furthering of the graphics market, definitely. 2 years ago, something like this would have cost a couple G's. This technology brings a new experience to gamers on a wide scale. It may not be innovative, ground breaking stuff, but it surely furthers the market.

 

[zero2dash]

and to make happy costumers by lowering GTX260 prices.

That's what I'm waiting for to pick up a 2nd 260 216 SC. $150, no rebates (or thereabout).
[crosses fingers at least]

 

[Brent_Justice]

If this means anything, in my own personal system, I was running an 8800 Ultra when they came out, then I upgraded to a GTX 280, and then I upgraded to a GTX 295 (which helped a lot at 2560x1600 in games), and now I'll be upgrading to a 5870. So, I've been running NV for the last couple of generations, personally, but now I want the 5870 in my system, and then 5870 X2 when that comes out.

I think AMD, through ATI Radeon graphics, have proven that the focus on this generation of GPUs is to improve the gameplay experience, and I want to experience that on my own system. The DX11 titles coming I look forward to playing in all the DX11 goodness.

 

[Dosomo]

I understand your point. I don't understand how you don't see Eyefinity as an 'intention of actually furthering the graphics card market' ? Maybe it has no use to you... I certainly won't be able to afford it anytime soon. Heck, it's not even new technology as many have pointed out.

But it is still a furthering of the graphics market, definitely. 2 years ago, something like this would have cost a couple G's. This technology brings a new experience to gamers on a wide scale. It may not be innovative, ground breaking stuff, but it surely furthers the market.

Eyefinity is the only truly interesting thing about the 5800 series from a technology stand point. I will give you that. It isn't exactly ground-breaking though. Matrox has provided a way to do it for a few years now. But it is still a nice feature.

As far as other people's comments are concerned... you are welcome to criticize my point of view all you like. It won't change my opinion anymore than my arguments will change yours. I'm not sure how I let myself get into one of these forum threads where everyone waves their company's flag and yells brilliant things like FAIL and FANBOI. But, I am done for today. Maybe I will go look at the prices of 5870s on Newegg instead. Because, GASP... I would actually consider buying one. What a crazy concept! I own a 8800 GTX, and I just criticized ATI... but I would buy one of their products! Blasphemy, I tell ya! LOL

Have a nice day guys!

 

[Ranari]

I still can't figure out why everyone has celebrated their last two product launches. (4800 and 5800 series) Both times, they basically put out a product that couldn't beat their competition's fastest part, but at a lower price point

That's a very naive statement, and I don't say that to personally insult. While the Radeon 4870 was slower than the GTX-285, it was also a good ~450 million fewer transistors. Being that is was cheaper to produce, and released at an incredibly more attractive price point, it was an extremely successful product. Neither AMD nor Nvidia make money off of $300+ video cards. The vast majority of the money is made at the low end. Release a high-end video card at a mid-range price point, and you have yourself a serious winner.

Yes, ATI has "competitive" products at nice prices. BUT... they have not designed a card in the last two generations with the intention of actually furthering the graphics market.

Power and transistor usage efficiency is not an industry advancing design concept? I find that funny that you say that AMD isn't furthering the graphics industry when it was Nvidia who held back DX10 specifications. Some of the features that were incorporated into the Radeon 2900XT are now found in DX10, like hardware tessellation and shader based anti-aliasing (I believe).

I don't disagree with the fact that Nvidia has the most advanced GPU. Fermi will be a remarkable piece of engineering, but the real question is, will it make money for Nvidia?

Oh, and the Radeon 5800 is the first DX11 hardware on the market. If that's not pushing the industry, I don't know what is...

 

[sirmonkey1985]

Kyle, it would really help if your UI was a bit better with these slideshows (same thing with the Fermi slideshow). It's unneccessarily obtuse to open each one individually in a new window/tab and toggle between. Plus, for laptop users like myself, the side banners force a horizontal scroll to view the whole slide. Would it be possible for you to put prev/next buttons and keep the banners off the horizontal view?

uh obviously you dont pay attention to the screen much.. all you have to do is click the first image.. then on the bottom below the picture it says previous and next.. just click that and it will go through all the slides..


as for the slides.. its good to see a side by side comparison.. it just feels like nvidia's putting to much effort into beating larabee and didnt even bother to look at AMD to come from behind and steal the majority of the market from under them..

 

[Deleted member 93354]

I was wondering how long it would take ATech to troll (and/or pop a blood vessel in his eye after reading this article)

In all honesty for someone like me, high Double Precision FP ops does look very tasty when trying to reduce matrixes with large amount of coefficients for least squares curve fit.

But I don't know how useful DP is to game programmers. Perhaps with complex shaders where roundoff becomes an issue (relative and absolute error thresholds)

To prove I'm not bias, my 3D video card history:
Matrox Millinum
Matrox Millinium II
Matrox m3D
Riva TNT2
nvidia mx
Radeon 8500
Radeon 9800 pro
nVidia 9600GT

looks like an ATI for my next rig.

 

[redpriest]

Here's a question for you guys. Whose graphics card do you think is being used for development of all these DX11 titles and probably some future ones (because Nvidia is not out in the market yet). Who do you think that benefits.

 

[smartpatrol]

ATI were the first with DX 10.1, DX 11, GDDR 5, and triple-monitor support. They were also the first to release their high-end card at a ridiculously cheap price. If you don't think this is "industry-advancing" then fine - I'm glad that your idea of "industry-advancing" isn't the one that ATI is moving toward.

 

[sirmonkey1985]

That's a very naive statement, and I don't say that to personally insult. While the Radeon 4870 was slower than the GTX-285, it was also a good ~450 million fewer transistors. Being that is was cheaper to produce, and released at an incredibly more attractive price point, it was an extremely successful product. Neither AMD nor Nvidia make money off of $300+ video cards. The vast majority of the money is made at the low end. Release a high-end video card at a mid-range price point, and you have yourself a serious winner.



Power and transistor usage efficiency is not an industry advancing design concept? I find that funny that you say that AMD isn't furthering the graphics industry when it was Nvidia who held back DX10 specifications. Some of the features that were incorporated into the Radeon 2900XT are now found in DX10, like hardware tessellation and shader based anti-aliasing (I believe).

I don't disagree with the fact that Nvidia has the most advanced GPU. Fermi will be a remarkable piece of engineering, but the real question is, will it make money for Nvidia?

Oh, and the Radeon 5800 is the first DX11 hardware on the market. If that's not pushing the industry, I don't know what is...

(quoted your post because im to lazy to find the other guys post..

dont forget ATI was also the first company to use GDDR4 and GDDR5 on gfx cards.. oh wait.. thats right now nvidia's using GDDR5.. i guess AMD/ATI doesnt help improve the graphics market.. i guess that 2 million dollars AMD/ATI put into to have GDDR5 developed just for the HD4870 was a figment of everyone's imagination..

AMD/ATI has changed the graphic market in more ways in the last 2 years then either companies have since the beginning plain and simple.. Nvidia tried to price gouge all its customers with the GTX series until the HD4k series came out and wooped nvidia's ass when no one was expecting it.. which then forced nvidia to slash all their prices in half.. so you cant tell anyone that AMD/ATI hasnt changed the graphics market..

so dosomo go do your damn homework again before you waste anyone's time with another useless friggin post..

 

[SmithyJones]

Eh, ATI wasn't the first with triple monitor support. Sure its a great feature, but its hardly anything new.

Lets separate something here... there's support for the additional monitor ports allowing the connection of 3 displays. Then there's the "eyefinity" bit that spans the physical displays into one logical display.

ATI was not the first to do either of these. Matrox did the triple display bit years ago. I'm not sure if they could do the logical display bit, but I know for fact that Nvidia has had that capability for years.

Now, are they the "first" to do both well with high resolutions? That may very well be the case.